208: Dial-Up Is Dead, Long Live Adam Argyle

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week’s JS Party. Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. With your hosts, Robbie the Wagner, and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That’s right Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development.

[00:00:27] Intro: I mean, it’s all in the name. It’s not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set.

[00:00:36] Robbie Wagner: Hey, what’s up everybody? This is Whiskey Web and whatnot with Robbie, the Wagner and Adam Argyle. You may have seen Adam

[00:00:44] Adam Argyle: Yeah,

[00:00:45] Robbie Wagner: a bunch of times on here. He, uh, I think is getting his five timers jacket or possibly more. , I don’t know how, how many times have you hosted, do you know?

[00:00:53] Adam Argyle: I don’t know the, when we did it on site, there was three or four in one day, so I don’t know if you count that as one, but there’s [00:01:00] like three or four, four outside of that, so I think I’m at five at

[00:01:03] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, you know, congrats on that and big news. Adam is going to be joining us more permanently as a full-time, well, full-time. It’s like, you know, not full-time, but, you know, he’ll be around hosting a lot. Chuck and I are going to be delegating responsibilities, , ‘cause Chuck is in Italy and like trying to live his life and, you know, hang out with his family or something.

[00:01:25] Robbie Wagner: I, I don’t know. Uh.

[00:01:26] Adam Argyle: Weird.

[00:01:27] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. So, uh, yeah, welcome Adam. , I’m sure everyone here knows who you are, so I won’t have you introduce yourself and,

[00:01:34] Adam Argyle: Thank you. Yeah. Hopefully no one’s sick of me. I got a funny email from our last episode. Someone was like, Hey, I wake and bake too. And that was like the subject of the email I was like, uhoh, this, uh, this is gonna, and it wasn’t. They were like, here’s my sourdough recipe. I waken big sourdough all the time.

[00:01:50] Adam Argyle: And I was like, ah, this is so wholesome now. Okay.

[00:01:53] Robbie Wagner: are they big Taylor Swift fans?

[00:01:56] Adam Argyle: Whew. I don’t know.

[00:01:57] Robbie Wagner: Did you hear about

[00:01:57] Adam Argyle: the email. No sourdough joke with [00:02:00] Taylor Swift. Yeah.

[00:02:00] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, you know, she’s dating Travis Kelsey and he, they have a podcast. , she was on his podcast for like two hours and apparently talked about sourdough a whole bunch. , I haven’t listened to it, but like they’re speculating that it’s like.

[00:02:13] Robbie Wagner: A reference too. ‘cause like their, uh, mascot is like sourdough Sam, so they’re saying she’s gonna maybe do like the Super Bowl halftime show or something, like, some kind of conspiracy there, but

[00:02:23] Adam Argyle: So wait, what does sourdough Sam have to Oh, ‘cause it’s the mask. Okay. I see, I see.

[00:02:27] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. So

[00:02:28] Robbie Wagner: like people

[00:02:28] Adam Argyle: a little stretchy, you

[00:02:29] Adam Argyle: know?

[00:02:30] Robbie Wagner: actually make sourdough that she was just saying it a lot. That to like drop hints. I don’t know.

[00:02:35] Adam Argyle: Hmm. COVID, it was very popular to, to bake bread. People were really needing, needing that bread all day.

[00:02:42] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Kneading and kneading.

[00:02:44] Adam Argyle: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:46] Robbie Wagner: Speaking of things that were popular during the pandemic, let’s see what we got here. This is some really expensive, fancy stuff we got today. This is the Jim Beam [00:03:00] pineapple, which is actually new, I guess I had no idea. I just saw it on total wine and I was like, Hey, why not?

[00:03:05] Robbie Wagner: Because we did some, uh, banana stuff one time and it was actually good. So we’ll see.

[00:03:11] Adam Argyle: you never know. And plus you gotta, you gotta taste the corpus so that you know, uh, what is good and what is bad. You know? Yeah. Listen to the bob. Hey, it actually smells pretty good.

[00:03:24] Robbie Wagner: Ooh. It does smell good, actually. Yeah.

[00:03:26] Adam Argyle: That’s, uh, surprising. Does that mean it’s not, it’s not a fake artificial pineapple. If it is, that’s a really yummy smelling, fake artificial

[00:03:34] Adam Argyle: flavor.

[00:03:34] Robbie Wagner: Well, I know about as much as you know about it. , This is, it says pineapple lur infused with Kentucky Strait Bourbon Whiskey. So, I guess, uh, did they make the liqueur or did they just source that? I don’t know. I’m un unclear.

[00:03:49] Adam Argyle: Hmm, interesting. Okay, so maybe there’s like a really delightful pineapple laur that they bought for in bulk, and they’re like, what are we gonna do with it? And they’re like, put it in a bottle.

[00:03:58] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. [00:04:00] Yeah. All right. Hmm. Smells like pineapple.

[00:04:03] Adam Argyle: Oh, that is drinkable. My goodness.

[00:04:07] Robbie Wagner: Wow. That is, that is candy.

[00:04:09] Adam Argyle: That is

[00:04:10] Adam Argyle: candy. Oh my. Don’t show my children. Yeah,

[00:04:13] Adam Argyle: wows us. That is, it’s like, um, okay. Remember those candies you get at your grandma’s house? Sometimes they were the strawberries. It was like wrapped in a strawberry wrapper and you’d undo the wrapper and you’d eat the hard candy, and it had the goo inside, but there was a pineapple variant.

[00:04:29] Adam Argyle: This tastes like the pineapple variant.

[00:04:31] Robbie Wagner: I don’t remember the pie. I remember the strawberry ones.

[00:04:33] Adam Argyle: it’s actually pretty good, although it’s confirming that it’s probably an artificial pineapple flavor if I’m reminiscing from my grandma’s candies.

[00:04:41] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. it’s too sweet for me. Like the flavor, the pineapple flavor is nice. I think it’d be good in some sort of tropical cocktail, but I don’t love it on its own. Whereas I did love the banana one on its own. So, I don’t know. , I’m just one person, but’s just how I feel about it.

[00:04:57] Adam Argyle: I mean, anything this sweet is not gonna be, [00:05:00] great to repeat over and over and over again. Right. This is like why I like my black coffee, some dry cider or whatever. I’m like, if I’m gonna have more than one of these things, it’s too sweet. Might overwhelm me.

[00:05:10] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. That’s fair. yeah, if anyone cares, it’s 75% corn, 13% rye, and 12% multi parley. And it’s only 65 per wait, is that right? 65%?

[00:05:22] Robbie Wagner: No, 32.5% alcohol, 65 proof. Yeah. I, I copied the wrong thing. I was like, 65% doesn’t sound right, because this has no burn at all. Yeah,

[00:05:31] Adam Argyle: Yeah. There is no burn.

[00:05:32] Robbie Wagner: alcohol.

[00:05:33] Adam Argyle: It’s bizaro. It’s uh, it’s, it’s more laur than whiskey maybe. I don’t know.

[00:05:38] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah, we won’t spend a ton of time on this. I know people don’t love when we talk about whiskey forever. It’s okay. We might move it to the end. We’ll see. But for today, we’re still doing it in order.

[00:05:46] Robbie Wagner: , So yeah, super complex rating system, zero to eight tentacles, zero being the worst, eight being the best four kind of middle of the road. What do you think?

[00:05:55] Adam Argyle: Hmm. If I’m trying to give some teenagers their first [00:06:00] whiskey, I’d give this a pretty high rating. If I’m trying to have my homies over there, which we’re gonna have, okay, so I’m having friends over on Monday. , I like to cook with the wok and we’re gonna make cocktails. We called it Wok and Cock. Uh. You know, we’re just a clever like that.

[00:06:16] Adam Argyle: It goes in with a, I was smoking meat last week and I did two butts, two birds and some nuts. And I was like, dude, I’m smoking butts, nuts and birds. That’s, you gotta follow that up with W Cock Anyway, I’m a clever name of anyway, so I’d, I’d say probably around a four or five. This is fun. Once, , you know, maybe it’s fun to whip out at a party here and there, but this isn’t anything to show off or write home about, so put it in the middle.

[00:06:38] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah, I’m kind of there too. , I don’t think I’ve ever had another pineapple whiskey, so I don’t know what I would compare it to, but yeah. I’m gonna say four. I do think, you know, speaking of a wok, you could maybe cook with this, like make some kind of sauce or something. could be good. yeah,

[00:06:53] Adam Argyle: that

[00:06:53] Robbie Wagner: let me know how it goes.

[00:06:55] Adam Argyle: at cock.

[00:06:59] Robbie Wagner: Nice. [00:07:00] All right.

[00:07:00] Robbie Wagner: , So something that I wanted to talk about, a little bit about. before I jump into it, let me just preface this with, have you been to Cascadia JS before?

[00:07:09] Adam Argyle: I have, I attended once and spoke once. I did a View Transitions talk a couple years ago, then last year just attended, it’s a local conference in Seattle. I’m like,

[00:07:19] Robbie Wagner: So why not

[00:07:19] Robbie Wagner: go?

[00:07:20] Adam Argyle: need to go. Yeah. Cool. People there, like Jason or Chris? I’m like, yeah, west Coast is uh, representing. and it’s a great conference.

[00:07:27] Adam Argyle: They always have a karaoke party at the end. The guy who throws the event walls, definitely more than one person throwing it. They’re awesome. Carter Rabassa. Hey, if you’re listening, you’re awesome dude. Your whole crew is awesome.

[00:07:38] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, he actually works at IBM, funny story. so he was like, Hey, is this you like in Slack? And I was like, yeah, it’s me.

[00:07:50] Adam Argyle: that’s awesome.

[00:07:51] Robbie Wagner: yeah, so it’s in Seattle. It’s uh, about web and AI stuff. I guess AI was added

[00:07:56] Robbie Wagner: this AI is new. Yeah.

[00:07:58] Robbie Wagner: yeah. Uh, [00:08:00] September 18th and 19th. Great talks from amazing speakers like Adam Argyle and, uh, a bunch of other people. , I don’t know. I looked at the speakers at one point, but I’m blanking on all of them.

[00:08:10] Robbie Wagner: Do you have any off the top of your head, you know, that are also gonna be good ones.

[00:08:14] Adam Argyle: I’m

[00:08:14] Robbie Wagner: We have the power

[00:08:15] Robbie Wagner: to

[00:08:15] Adam Argyle: Say, say they’re all good. Yeah. I, I mean there’s like , Kent see dots. Is there, you’ll be there. I’m definitely blanking on the rest, but I mean, you scroll through the list and you’re like, yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. That’s good. Yeah.

[00:08:26] Adam Argyle: I’m the, the token CSS invite.

[00:08:28] Adam Argyle: You know, it’s like, oh, gotta have, gotta have a little bit of something on this other

[00:08:32] Robbie Wagner: Oh, there are a lot of

[00:08:34] Robbie Wagner: speakers.

[00:08:35] Adam Argyle: a lot of speakers this year, so I don’t know if it’s growing or if it’s in the same venue. If it’s in the same venue as last year, which is the town hall of Seattle. It’s awesome. I mean, I lived in Seattle like my whole life, , and never been to that town hall and it was rad.

[00:08:47] Robbie Wagner: Okay. Kevin Winy, who used to, I think work for Dino, works for Open AI and is doing GPT five for developers. How did you know that GPT five would be out before the conference?

[00:08:58] Adam Argyle: Hmm. It’s says, well, actually it’s [00:09:00] probably, it’s gonna relate to a video we’re probably gonna talk about, but chat GBT five, you know, they’ve had that way before they released it to us. They internally were bashing on that thing. And so, yeah, maybe he knew, maybe he didn’t know the release date maybe, but knew, knew it was a thing.

[00:09:13] Adam Argyle: They, I mean, he’s already got chat, GBT six seven’s probably being built in six, is being hacked on, you know, like we don’t get that new freshness. We get their old cruddy laundry.

[00:09:22] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. Ooh, Milky is gonna be there. yeah, I haven’t read through this whole thing. Yeah. A lot of people that you’ve seen speak at conferences before and do a good job are going to be speaking at this conference, so

[00:09:34] Adam Argyle: Oh yeah, Jason Mays is there from Google. He does all the AI stuff. He was always fun to watch. I was like, he’s definitely knowledgeable, but he’s a character to like, watch be on a screen. You’re like, so it’s gonna be fun watching him give a talk.

[00:09:49] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. So should be fun.

[00:09:51] Adam Argyle: Oh, Charlie’s gonna give a good one.

[00:09:53] Adam Argyle: Charlie Gerard, she always

[00:09:54] Adam Argyle: does a cool

[00:09:55] Robbie Wagner: she’s always good. Yeah. Doing crazy stuff with JavaScript.

[00:09:58] Adam Argyle: Yeah. Oh, Annie Sexton. [00:10:00] So that’s gonna be a funny one from Fly io. She’s hilarious. Oh, and Trudy Kapur, you know, she’s gonna be in there doing some React jokes.

[00:10:06] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, lots of good stuff.

[00:10:07] Adam Argyle: do you look like your AI created picture?

[00:10:10] Robbie Wagner: Oh, I’m not on there.

[00:10:11] Adam Argyle: Oh, you’re not on there.

[00:10:12] Robbie Wagner: No, I’m not, I’m not speaking. No. I couldn’t swing it. Anyway, I’ve, uh, I just went to Big Sky devcon I’m doing all things open, like doing a bunch of live podcasts there in October and I’m getting in trouble for doing too many things already, so,

[00:10:28] Adam Argyle: Yes. Yeah. You invited me to one and I was like, Ooh, I’m already doing too many things. It’s too close to another one. , Yeah. You got twins, you got, it’s good. It’s good not to go it stretch yourself thin. I mean, it’s not even about like necessarily everybody else. There’s also a, you part of this, you know, like Robbie has to spread yourself across these states and create a talk.

[00:10:47] Adam Argyle: It’s, it’s no joke.

[00:10:49] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah, I’m, uh, I think I’m gonna actually fly to Raleigh instead of driving, even though it’s only like a four hour drive, because I’m like so [00:11:00] exhausted from getting four hours of sleep every night that I’m just like, I don’t trust myself to drive, so I’m just gonna fly there.

[00:11:05] Adam Argyle: Don’t blame me. Gas is expensive now too. You might be able to score a ticket for a buck 50 or whatever and gas was gonna cost you there and back

[00:11:12] Adam Argyle: 90 bucks or more, right? So

[00:11:14] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, that’s true. Okay, so before we go too much into other things, I do wanna mention, if you want to go to Cascadia js and you are free and around Seattle, or not around Seattle, and want to make the trip out there, go to cascadia js.com and use code Whiskey all caps for a hundred dollars off your ticket.

[00:11:32] Adam Argyle: Come say hi to me. Tell me that you, uh, hate that I’m on the podcast more, or that you love it. I don’t know. I’ve either got a backhand or a high five for you. It depends on what you say.

[00:11:41] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. I was, I forgot to ask at the beginning, but uh, as one of our avid listeners, will we have one less listen per episode now, or will you continue to listen even though you’re on

[00:11:53] Adam Argyle: I won’t listen to my own episodes, although I did to the one where I said, hot dog diaper or what was it? Wiener [00:12:00] Diaper. I was like, I want, yeah.

[00:12:02] Adam Argyle: Yeah. I was like, I want to hear how I got there. ‘cause I have no idea. To me it’s just completely foreign.

[00:12:10] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I don’t remember how we got there either.

[00:12:12] Adam Argyle: me neither. I think we were talking about is it a sandwich or something?

[00:12:14] Adam Argyle: And I was like, I don’t remember. It was a good, uh,

[00:12:18] Adam Argyle: inquiry.

[00:12:19] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Chuck always argues that it is because the item without the bread is also called a hotdog. So you have to call it a hot dog sandwich to differentiate, and it’s like, okay, that makes sense, but.

[00:12:31] Adam Argyle: Let’s put it in a spec, you know, it’s a, let’s spec all of the, all of the food items and make a committee and we’ll have a sandwich working group.

[00:12:42] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I think that’s something I would’ve some expertise in. I can do that one.

[00:12:45] Adam Argyle: that actually those meetings sound like fun. So it’s like you gotta do, see, you want your whiskey, , episodes to be after the sandwich one, then you can sip more whiskey in the episode ‘cause you got a sandwich filled belly, you know, schedule out your life with your meetings here.

[00:12:59] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Although the [00:13:00] bang for your buck is less. If you drink on an empty stomach, you have one drink and you’re good.

[00:13:04] Adam Argyle: That is true. That is true. That’s always the, yeah. The best part about not having lunch and having a little, little something. You’re like, ah, that’s nice.

[00:13:12] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. Today I went to get, uh, some Mexican food for lunch and had a couple margaritas and, , had a good time because I’m, I’m on paternity leave still this month, so I was just like, Hey, yeah, I can meet some friends for lunch and whatever. And

[00:13:25] Adam Argyle: Awesome.

[00:13:26] Robbie Wagner: yeah,

[00:13:27] Adam Argyle: ’ Oh man, I don’t wanna go back to work. Dude. Have we talked about that? I’m, because I’ve been on, I’ve been on leave, forced leave. I do have a new role, but I don’t start for like another three and a half weeks and

[00:13:36] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Is it

[00:13:37] Robbie Wagner: a

[00:13:37] Robbie Wagner: secret?

[00:13:38] Adam Argyle: it’s not though I haven’t, I haven’t said, I haven’t said it anywhere. I’ve like DMed it to like a few people who are, Hey, you wanna hear it first here?

[00:13:45] Robbie Wagner: can drop it

[00:13:46] Adam Argyle: it’s, it’s totally the most original location you’ve ever heard a Googler go, especially a Chrome Googler, especially a dev rail. Googler has, no one has gone to this Shopify, no one has gone to there before. [00:14:00] Wait, crap. A whole bunch of people have,

[00:14:02] Adam Argyle: I’m going to Shopify. so Jay and I applied for the design engineer role.

[00:14:06] Adam Argyle: They were like, we’re hiring two design engineers. And me and Jay went one wheeling that day. Uh, and this is like a, a week after I got laid off or whatever, and he was just happened to be in town anyway. We’re like one wheeling around and he’s like, dude, let’s. Let’s DM Max Stober and just dual submit, , ourselves to the role.

[00:14:23] Adam Argyle: And I was just like, in my mind I was just like, fuck it man, do it. Just hit the button, bro. Hit the button. He hit the button. And all of a sudden he’s like, max is like, you both wanna work here? And we’re like, yeah. , And so anyway, Jay jumps right in. So Jay, was at Versel is no longer there. Is it?

[00:14:39] Adam Argyle: Oh, real quick here. Who says it right? Is it Sal or Versal?

[00:14:43] Robbie Wagner: I think it’s Versal.

[00:14:45] Adam Argyle: Cel sounds cooler, but I keep hearing people say Sal. And I know the people who say Sal have heard other people say Versel and they’re just continuing to say it either the wrong way or what they think is the right way. And I gotta

[00:14:55] Adam Argyle: know

[00:14:56] Robbie Wagner: Well refer back to the episode where we had Guillermo on and I think [00:15:00] he’s like, Hey, I’m CEO of Versal. Not versatile.

[00:15:03] Adam Argyle: that settles it right there. Alright, I’m gonna DM all the dorks. It still saying Al like it’s V-E-R-C-L-E, not V-E-R-C-E-L.

[00:15:11] Robbie Wagner: they probably say Cly to instead of CLI.

[00:15:15] Adam Argyle: Oh. Or Clea. I’ve even heard Clea.

[00:15:17] Robbie Wagner: Ugh, even

[00:15:18] Robbie Wagner: worse.

[00:15:19] Adam Argyle: worse.

[00:15:20] Adam Argyle: Yep. crap. I had more com. Oh yeah. So Shopify, I got a job. Okay. So yeah, I, I applied, I applied to get to go with Jay as a design engineer. And basically they wanted, they’re like, Hey, all those really cool demos we make, let’s give them to merchants and users so they can, uh, put them in their, their stores.

[00:15:35] Adam Argyle: And we were like, that’s cool.

[00:15:36] Adam Argyle: Okay. , And I go through the interview process and I, I start talking to Jason Miller, who I used to work with on Chrome Dere, he’s been there for a couple years. He’s there with CMA and Jake and some of these other folks, and he’s like, Hey, I know you’re applying for this other team, but dude, I’ve got a really unique role that I don’t know anybody can do it other than you basically.

[00:15:53] Adam Argyle: , Would you please maybe join my team? It’s, uh, over here in the admin of, , anyways, he’s doing a rewrite. [00:16:00] I don’t know how much I can tell about it yet, but later when I can say more, I’ll tell you more about that thing. But it’s kind of, . It’s gonna upset a lot of people like the type of rewrite that’s happening and I’m like, I’m here for it.

[00:16:10] Adam Argyle: I’m like, oh, you’re rewriting. Mm, you’re going to that. Mm, I’m here for you. and then they want it to be nice, right? So they’re gonna rewrite a whole bunch of stuff. The last thing you want is a rewrite that’s faster, but kind of shittier. They’re like, we need to be faster. And also users like it better not just, the metrics.

[00:16:25] Adam Argyle: I was like sweet and went through all the interviews and also Shopify. Oh dude, I have so much shit to talk about the bad interview process of the world right now. It was

[00:16:35] Robbie Wagner: Oh yeah.

[00:16:36] Adam Argyle: anyway, Shopify’s was very good. The only one that was actually tested me for what they wanted to hire me for everybody else.

[00:16:42] Adam Argyle: It’s so funny, everybody else is like, we’re hiring for guitarists. Anybody if you play guitar, we’re hiring for guitarists. And I’m like, Hey, I play guitar. I’ve been playing guitar for like 25 years. They’re like, sweet. Oh dude, we know you. We know you play guitar. Sweet. Come on in. Like, let’s interview you.

[00:16:55] Adam Argyle: So I go through the interview process. I show up to the first interview. It’s like the first tech interview after I’ve done all these other ones [00:17:00] show up to the tech interview and they’re like, here’s a bass. We got some bass lines we want you to play. And I’m like, okay, I actually can play a little bit of bass.

[00:17:07] Adam Argyle: You know, you guys are lucky. I’m here. I thought to play guitar, but all right, I’ll, I’ll play bass. Anyway. So I play bass, and then they’re like, yep, you’re not that great at bass. We’ll see you later. And I’m like, what the hell, bro? Over and over and over again, this was my interview process, even at huge companies that should not have this problem.

[00:17:26] Robbie Wagner: It’s a gatekeeping thing. the, the whole leak code thing too. It’s like I never one time ever have needed any sort of algorithm for web development.

[00:17:35] Adam Argyle: Oh man. Like twice in my whole career, dude. See, I, I’m totally with you. It was

[00:17:38] Robbie Wagner: so

[00:17:39] Robbie Wagner: it’s like, why do I need to know how, like the most efficient way to do all of these arbitrary like. , Solve a traveling salesman problem here for me with like, getting to this path the quickest.

[00:17:49] Robbie Wagner: , I make boxes pretty, I don’t know why you need me to like do this, so, yeah, it is, it’s insane. , I don’t know why we’re doing this to ourselves,

[00:17:58] Robbie Wagner: but,

[00:17:58] Adam Argyle: neither. I’m, I’m gonna shame a [00:18:00] company though.

[00:18:00] Robbie Wagner: yeah, aside from it just being like, you know, it’s just gatekeeping. It’s like, can you engineer hard? And if so, like, all right, you’re in

[00:18:07] Adam Argyle: Yep. The lead code ones are gnarly at that, and I had to do those at Google. So that’s, that’s the other funny thing is, you know, seven years Google, I, I administered many interviews, and I never chose the lead code ones. We had to choose something that like, at least was like gonna give us something to do for an hour.

[00:18:21] Adam Argyle: Which is also funny. The Shopify interview, AI was allowed, and I used AI to solve the hardest part of the problem in five seconds. And I was like, at the beginning of the interview, I was like, Hey, AI could probably one shot this. And he’s like, yeah, someone did that the other day. They, one shot the interview.

[00:18:34] Adam Argyle: And I was like, that’s interesting. I’m not gonna do that. I want to, I’m gonna spec it out. I wrote out this like a plan. I was like, I’m gonna plan it. Basically I’m gonna make a plan, walk this thing through the plan, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna write as much as I want you to see that I can actually code.

[00:18:47] Adam Argyle: I don’t want you to see that I can prompt. I want you to see that I can code. And then when it gets to a part where I’m like, watch it. Do this part. And it did, it solves some matrix math like right away. I’m like, boom. Yeah, that’s known anyway,

[00:18:57] Adam Argyle: AI was used.

[00:18:58] Robbie Wagner: it’s just another tool, right? [00:19:00] Like, you know, if you’re gonna use it in your job, why isn’t it fair game in the interview? , As long as, yeah, you’re, you can show that you can think through the problem a little bit, and you’re not just like, I have no idea what I’m doing. Can you solve it all for me?

[00:19:13] Robbie Wagner: Then I think it’s fine. Like, if it speeds you up, you’re like, oh God, I gotta build this big RegX, I don’t know, RegX, like, just build this for me, like. I think that’s fine. Like I’m not concerned about people using AI in interviews. It’s fine with me as long as like I get the vibe from you that you understand something about like you know how to do your job.

[00:19:34] Adam Argyle: Yep. I’m the same way. And that’s what I wanted to portray as like a, and it, so it was nice. Shopify is very AI centric, which is part of the political, politically charged aspect of joining there is how they’ve recently done some pretty wild ai. anyway, uh, maybe we’ll talk about that later. But ironically, so I, I, I was in the open AI interview process, and I got really far and they don’t allow AI in the interview process, and I’m like.[00:20:00]

[00:20:00] Robbie Wagner: Hilarious.

[00:20:01] Adam Argyle: Thank you. Isn’t that hilarious?

[00:20:03] Adam Argyle: I was like, this is so funny. Of all the people I’m interviewing for y’all should be like a AI is all game. Like we’re AI all day. And but no, you go into there and they literally were like, they should have just asked me right off the bat, not can I play guitar or bass, but how many react hooks do I have memorized?

[00:20:18] Adam Argyle: That’s what they should have just asked me. ‘cause that’s all they wanted to know. All they wanted to know is given this particular unique scenario with React, which hook do you use? Quest MAs dot. And

[00:20:30] Robbie Wagner: God,

[00:20:31] Adam Argyle: it’s just like, and I’m like, that’s not what you wanted. You hire, you’re trying to hire me for really dynamic fluid cool interfaces.

[00:20:39] Robbie Wagner: It has nothing to do with react hooks,

[00:20:41] Adam Argyle: what do you want me, why are you asking me about hooks? Yo? Like that’s irrelevant. Plus AI is phenomenally good at hooks,

[00:20:47] Robbie Wagner: plus hooks are dead. Michael Jackson said so he was like, I hate hooks. They’re gonna go away. And I was like, Hey, power to you. I guess they’re gonna just not use React at all though. And [00:21:00] remix

[00:21:00] Adam Argyle: I did see

[00:21:00] Adam Argyle: that. Yeah. And then not even Preact, so they’re not doing preact or re so it’s like, are they gonna go with lit? Uh, I don’t know. It’s gonna be interesting to see what they’re trying to pitch here.

[00:21:11] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, well, they could choose anything and it would be better than React. Go with knockout js. nobody cares. Just don’t use React. Oh man, I have so like everyone has react fatigue and it’s just like the worst mental model and it’s making everyone else make their frameworks worse, in my opinion.

[00:21:28] Adam Argyle: yeah. So, yeah. You’d like this job I’m about to take at Shopify? Yeah. It’s, uh, without diverging anything, it’s definitely about how bad that is and how there’s better potentials in the future.

[00:21:40] Robbie Wagner: Yep.

[00:21:41] Adam Argyle: Okay. Wait, I wanna throw, I wanna throw one company under the bus is Discord. I was really upset at Discord. , Sorry, discord, but you’re, , it was really, really bad.

[00:21:48] Adam Argyle: So it’s like, uh, again, they want, they wanted to hire, . Someone to add Polish beauty desire and accessibility to the ui. They’re like, we need a specialist in this particular space. hey, you fit [00:22:00] the bill. And then also at the beginning of the interview or a, after a couple interviews in, they were like, you are doing really well in the interview process.

[00:22:06] Adam Argyle: We haven’t hired for this role in like six months. We don’t know what’s going on. Anyway, I get to the , technical interview and I show up and they’re basically like, all right, build this react component. And I’m like, Hey, wait a sec. , I’ll do this. And it’s a toast component. My goodness. I’ve made like five toast components, whatever you want.

[00:22:22] Adam Argyle: let me make this an accessible toast. And I’m literally, and this happened in multiple interviews, dude, but this one was particularly bad. The interviewer goes, no, no, no, no, you just need to write the reactor code. And I was like, but I, the role is an accessibility role.

[00:22:35] Adam Argyle: You don’t want to make this accessible. He’s like, no, I, oh shit. I was like, this is a bad sign. Anyway, halfway through I’m like, Hey, let’s animate it. It’s a toast. It’s gotta be animated, you know, you gotta present it to the user, show some feedback, Hey, maybe we’ll make it swipeable. And he goes, nah, it just needs to render and then you’re good. I was like, what? I was like, all the things you wanna hire me for, you’re telling me not to do. [00:23:00] That’s so frustrating.

[00:23:01] Robbie Wagner: yeah. I mean, that sounds to me like, , they’re gonna need some accessibility consultants pretty soon, , once they do everything wrong. So, yeah. Uh, anyone looking to make a big pile of money hit up discord?

[00:23:12] Adam Argyle: hit up Discord, which is ironic ‘cause they have pretty good accessibility so far.

[00:23:15] Adam Argyle: They have a couple of really talented folks on the team, but the hiring process weeded me out, like right out the technical gate. I had to really like, be like, don’t complain. Don’t tell the recruiter.

[00:23:25] Adam Argyle: ‘cause I’m like, how, how uncool is it to be like. Hey, I failed the interview. Instead of like, Hey, we’re so sorry you failed the interview, and I’m gonna be like, yeah, it’s ‘cause your interview sucks. Your interview, it was wrong. And they’re gonna be like, you just failed it, so go away.

[00:23:38] Adam Argyle: And I, I’m like, well, I tried to help, I guess. I don’t know, I just, it looks like it’s still douchey for me to come back and be like, your test is broken. I should have passed. And so it’s

[00:23:47] Adam Argyle: like

[00:23:47] Adam Argyle: whatever

[00:23:48] Robbie Wagner: yeah, the inflexibility is weird to me. Like if I was interviewing someone and I said, build a toast, and I said, do it in React. And they were like, Hey, what if I did it in HTML and CSS? And it was like way doper. I’d be [00:24:00] like, that sounds much harder to implement, so please do. And it will be accessible out of the box and Awesome.

[00:24:05] Robbie Wagner: Thank you. Like I would be happy that they went that way, but like, yeah, they probably had like a checkbox that was like, did they use like this one hook and react the right way? And it’s like, if you didn’t, you fail. So like,

[00:24:16] Adam Argyle: Yes. Literally.

[00:24:17] Adam Argyle: So another test, another company I’m interviewing and I implemented, they, they jerks. They’re like, you can pick whatever you want to solve it. And I’m like, cool, I’m gonna do it in vanilla. They didn’t want you to choose vanilla. They wanted you to choose react the assholes. So, okay, the, but here’s the worst part.

[00:24:34] Adam Argyle: The worst part is, I’m halfway through it in vanilla, and I’m adding view transitions and like other stuff. I’m making the thing actually like cool or whatever. And the, douche interviewer is constantly, uh, like, I didn’t know that. Wow. And at the, at the end of the interview, he’s like, I learned more in this interview than I have in a long time.

[00:24:57] Adam Argyle: And then he failed me. So [00:25:00] basically he was arrogantly telling me that was the most wrong interview I’ve done in a long time. And you obviously know a bunch of stuff that we don’t care about.

[00:25:09] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:25:10] Adam Argyle: So you should go away. And I was just like, dang cold bro. Like, geez. I, I did the, that’s probably the coolest one you’ve seen out of all your interviews.

[00:25:21] Adam Argyle: It just didn’t fit your bill, so you threw me out. I’m like, dude, interviewing. I got so many rejections, dude, so many rejections. Although I have friends that got a lot more rejections, but dang, the interview process is still broken. I thought for sure it would be better now. 10 years. You know, I, I haven’t interviewed for seven years.

[00:25:39] Adam Argyle: I was at Google for seven years, so I’m like seven years out of the rest of the world’s interview process. I thought for sure we’d figure something out, but no, no. Even brand new companies that are huge are still doing it. The word, oh man,

[00:25:49] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I think it’s gotten worse because like, it’s not a developer’s market anymore. So like companies are like, we hold all the cards. We got 2,500 applicants [00:26:00] for this one position. So, , yeah, we’re just gonna do whatever we want and make it hard and arbitrarily stupid with like 15 rounds with every single person because we don’t trust anyone at any level, like.

[00:26:11] Robbie Wagner: You gotta interview with the ma, the hiring manager, then their manager. Then like a director. Then like a vp and like maybe we’ll throw the CEO in there. Why not? Like everyone up the chain? ‘cause we don’t trust anyone.

[00:26:22] Adam Argyle: Yeah. Yeah. And I was, I was, uh, doing good with everybody except the technical ones. So the technical ones would show up and they’d be like, he didn’t check the boxes on whatever it was we were looking for, react to hook four, five, and six. He, he didn’t say use callback, you know, he used a regular callback.

[00:26:37] Adam Argyle: So he’s obviously a new and we shouldn’t hire him. It’s crazy.

[00:26:40] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, he used JavaScript. I’m not even sure what that is, but like it was weird.

[00:26:45] Adam Argyle: yep.

[00:26:47] Adam Argyle: Oh

[00:26:47] Adam Argyle: man, there’s so many things to complain about.

[00:26:49] Adam Argyle: , It is wild. Oh, so yeah, so speaking of tons of applicants, right? So it’s, um, people, a lot of people don’t know who I am. I mean, maybe people listening are like, oh, you just been on five episodes. He’s totally [00:27:00] known. No, no, man. I totally plan all over the place.

[00:27:01] Adam Argyle: People don’t know who I was. And I was getting, , so little callbacks and, that’s why I made a, I called it the sizzle rle. I made a sizzle reel. I made a three minute video of like the past 10 years of animations and UI I’ve made. And it’s just, it’s like wham bam, two music in your face, just animations.

[00:27:20] Adam Argyle: It’s the best thing I ever made because I knew, dude, I knew. Do you know how much time people spent looking at your application? Five

[00:27:26] Adam Argyle: seconds.

[00:27:27] Robbie Wagner: no

[00:27:28] Adam Argyle: Maybe if you are lucky. 30 seconds or whatever. So people don’t even finish my video. So, dude, I made a video. People don’t finish. they make their decision in the first 10 seconds about whether or not they want me or not.

[00:27:38] Adam Argyle: And that video here, so this is tips, tips to anybody out there right now. this is just like when you go for a promotion. I’m rubbing my face because of how much, this drives me nuts, but whatever this is, reality everyone’s so busy, they need to know your story in one sentence, right?

[00:27:50] Adam Argyle: So what’s your narrative? What’s your narrative? Who are you and what do you do in one sentence, oh, it’s too long. I’m already checked out. What do you mean? You already checked out. We’re in a one-on-one and it’s like he’s already somewhere else. Anyway, [00:28:00] you’ve got like 10, 15 seconds and someone’s gonna decide everything about you in that amount of time.

[00:28:04] Adam Argyle: And it’s super rude. So I made a resume and no one read the resume. So I made an animated resume. You can go to nerdy.dev/resume you can see my resume and it animates in and it’s scroll animations. It’s beautiful dude. No one’s made anything like it. No one cared. People cared about my video because the video gave the CEO.

[00:28:19] Adam Argyle: This is why I did well at Above Grades. is the people would be like, they’d watch the video and say, we want that in our app. So here’s my tip to everyone out there. If you want to get a job right now, give them the thing that they can point at that you do that they want in their app. And that’s all they’re gonna, that’s all the time they have for you.

[00:28:37] Adam Argyle: Is what hole do we have? Can he fill it? or she, you know, like give them this like, anyway, so that the best thing I did was make that video because so many people, so many people saw it and said, we want that kind of animation in our tool. Put ‘em in the interview process and then I get filtered out.

[00:28:54] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. That’s annoying. Yeah. I How many places though, like, is there just a [00:29:00] bucket of like other stuff I want to upload? Like how do you even get a video to when you’re applying ,

[00:29:05] Adam Argyle: Yeah, good question. Okay, so, I made it on my site then, uh, so since I syndicate and own my content, I syndicate to. Twitter, mastodon and blue sky. Once it had been on there for a day, I aggregate all the likes and reposts from that and put it on my site,

[00:29:22] Adam Argyle: which, so then you go to my site and you can see my sizzle re reel has, you know, a hundred likes or whatever.

[00:29:27] Adam Argyle: And then I post it on LinkedIn. So on LinkedIn you start roping in the people that this is what you do. So I’m like, here’s, here’s my work history in three minutes or whatever. And on my avatar in LinkedIn, it says, I’m looking for work. So now I’m looking for work has, here’s a sizzle v video.

[00:29:42] Adam Argyle: Anybody who gives a crap hits play makes the decision in five to 15 seconds. That’s how I distributed my video. So first to socials, I own it, and then distributed it to LinkedIn to get the extra clout. Uh, there might be better ways, but worked for me pretty good.

[00:29:56] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I mean, that sounds like a good strategy. I was just thinking like, I think a [00:30:00] couple places I had applied before had a place for like, they wanted a video, like introduce yourself and like tell us about stuff or whatever. But usually that’s not a field they have on the application, so I was just curious.

[00:30:12] Robbie Wagner: You just add that to like a, since it’s online, you can just put a link to it and they can go to it.

[00:30:17] Adam Argyle: yep. I had a link and the link was nerdy do dev slash sizzle rle or some shit like that. And I was like, I’m still gonna be playful. I mean, I’m still, I’m not all business all day, you know? Still kinda silly. I,

[00:30:28] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:30:28] CTA: This just in! Whiskey.fund is now open for all your merch needs. That’s right, Robbie. We’re hearing reports of hats, sweaters, and T-shirts, as well as a link to join our Discord server. What’s a Discord server? Just read the prompter, man. Hit subscribe. Leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and tell your friends about our broadcast. It really does help us reach more people and keeps the show growing. All right, back to your regularly scheduled [00:31:00] programming.

[00:31:01] Robbie Wagner: So speaking of things that are business, let’s talk about gradient debt style. been doing a lot on that recently. I’ve seen some, some cool things spinning around with colors, stuff you’ve been posting. , Tell me about that. What, what’s, what’s new on there?

[00:31:14] Adam Argyle: Yeah, so gradient.style is a project cause in CSS we got , lots of new gradient capabilities, most notably the interpolation space. So you can, like, when you shift from red to blue, you can change which color space you do it in, which has a drastic change in the result. And then furthermore, we got all these HDR colors.

[00:31:32] Adam Argyle: So now we have colors beyond HSL colors, beyond RGB. And what does beyond mean? Well, I say, I don’t know. That’s, that’s where we get into a bigger conversation. But anyway, this tool’s trying to help you create gradients that are HDR. So this is where I, I was also really frustrated with like color zilla and some of these other really crappy, pretty old school gradient generators online that the output is poopy.

[00:31:52] Adam Argyle: and the, the editor’s poopy and even the capabilities is poopy. So I wanted something great capabilities, great output, blah, blah, blah. I released this at [00:32:00] a, as a beta, last year, almost two years ago. Maybe. Always intended to come back. It’s a big s felt application. West Boss helped me migrate it since felt five, a few months ago.

[00:32:09] Adam Argyle: and I, I just, uh, during this break, I needed something that was like decently sized to chew on after I, so it’s like I got a new role. It’s like I got a new role. I’m like, I’m also feeling like I don’t know what computers do anymore ‘cause I’m barely touching mine as I’m not employed. so it’s like I need something to like hack on and I wanted something to try, , AI models on and just, I just wanted to make sure I’m just like on my game.

[00:32:31] Adam Argyle: And the , gradient.style GitHub repo has his backlog of features. So I was like, cool, I’ll go through these backlog of features and , test out all my theories. I’ll test out Kiro, I’ll test out Windsor. I’ll test out cursor. I’ll test out Claude, I’ll test out Warp, I’ll test out a z and see how they do on these features in his spell tap, which is ironic ‘cause I watched Fire Ship, he had a video come out like three weeks ago.

[00:32:50] Adam Argyle: He’s like, Chad, GPD five comes out and it still can’t deal with Felt five ruins. And I watched that video and I was like, is he talking to me? Because [00:33:00] I’m like, none of the AI models know how to deal with Felt five. I’m like, it’s crazy. West Boss helped me get its five and now know AI can help me. I’m like, dang it.

[00:33:06] Adam Argyle: good thing I wrote all the code ‘cause I know how it all works. But

[00:33:09] Adam Argyle: anyway,

[00:33:09] Adam Argyle: so.

[00:33:10] Robbie Wagner: is, hard. Like, sorry to to derail you,

[00:33:13] Robbie Wagner: but,

[00:33:13] Robbie Wagner: shepherd is written in spelt I tried to update it to five, but we don’t, like, we have this weird problem where like the outer part, like the part you interact with, like importing tour from tour or whatever is like. Just JavaScript. And so then we have like the little function that’s like render my felt stuff, but like using that function in normal JavaScript.

[00:33:36] Robbie Wagner: You can’t pass a reference anymore in S Felt five to like an element or whatever. So I can’t get the reference without using like Legacy, don’t use Felt four LOL and like it’s like I converted it all and then used the legacy thing thinking it would be at least a little better. But it’s like double the size, like the bundle is way bigger.

[00:33:59] Robbie Wagner: [00:34:00] So I don’t know what happened. Rich, if you happen to hear this, help me fix it. Or Wes, anyone that can like, wants to dig into that ‘cause I don’t want to dig into that. Like

[00:34:10] Adam Argyle: Yeah, man, I’m not gonna lie. I, uh, vet five I, I, I like spelts and I don’t intend to poop on any things. I’m just always gonna comment. But yeah, SELT

[00:34:18] Adam Argyle: five, the upgrade, which was supposed to be faster or whatever, was a hundred percent completely no change. And the Gradient Style website, there’s certain, store values that are shared across six components.

[00:34:32] Adam Argyle: So when it changes, there’s a lot of rendering that needs to happen. And I need that atomic rendering. I need those a fine-grained, , reactive variables to change and only change what’s there. And you can see it suffer in the old one, and it still suffers in five. So in our migration, it was. A zero sum gain.

[00:34:50] Adam Argyle: I hear you though in some ways that like certain things that before I had like on mount, I had a function I don’t have on mount anymore, so I have to use an empty use effect or some shit like that. So it’s not [00:35:00] great. I’ll call this anonymous function, that’s just so I don’t know when it’s getting called, but hopefully I can get my document doc query, select or reference it.

[00:35:06] Adam Argyle: So yeah, I think I have a similar issue to you there.

[00:35:09] Robbie Wagner: I have a hot take that I

[00:35:11] Robbie Wagner: think everyone making frameworks is falling all over themselves to be like, oh my God, we get people that use React to like switch to our framework and see that it’s better? Oh, let’s make it just like React so they can easily switch. Like let’s give it all the same hooks and all the same bullshit and everyone will love it.

[00:35:27] Robbie Wagner: And it’s like, okay, but what if you just built a good framework? people that are actual engineers might go, Hey, this is a cool framework. I like this. I don’t need it to be exactly the same as React for it to be good. Like I’m so tired of the, everything’s a React clone and I, I don’t want it. I want people to think for themselves and build cool frameworks again, like compete with each other.

[00:35:49] Robbie Wagner: Don’t just build the same thing

[00:35:51] Adam Argyle: Dude, I’m a a thousand percent with you. The only way I’m not with you is that I think it also applies to Tailwind, which I have a feeling you’re gonna be like, well, no. [00:36:00] Tailwind can stay as

[00:36:00] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:36:01] Robbie Wagner: tail tailwind is perfect.

[00:36:05] Adam Argyle: I get so many questions from people that are like, how do I do this thing in Tailwind because it’s a new CSSE thing. And I’m like,

[00:36:12] Robbie Wagner: You don’t until the new version of Tailwind comes

[00:36:14] Robbie Wagner: out.

[00:36:14] Adam Argyle: Yep. You wait. And then you just acquire debt. That’s cool. You can just acquire the weird little edge debt that you need to.

[00:36:21] Robbie Wagner: Although it is, it’s better now because, well, a little better

[00:36:24] Robbie Wagner: ‘cause

[00:36:24] Robbie Wagner: it’s all like CSS based config and stuff like you can do a little more. But yeah, it’s, if you’re doing anything sufficiently complex, it’s probably hard to reason about in a string of classes versus using real CSS. So you might just want to keep complex stuff in a little CSS file, which it’s compatible with.

[00:36:41] Robbie Wagner: You can use CSS too. You don’t have to just use one or the other.

[00:36:44] Adam Argyle: Or just use your component model JavaScript framework and don’t rely on CSS for whatever solution it has. So yeah, there’s a tension there. It’s like a component author. it sucks,

[00:36:53] Adam Argyle: oh, it reminds me another crappy part of the Oh, is the open AI interview. , I rebuilt a chat bot just for funs against an [00:37:00] LLM endpoint.

[00:37:01] Adam Argyle: So you can go to, you can go to nerdy.dev and find my LLM little , chat demo I made, which uses few transitions and a bunch of cool techniques in it. Anyway, I was talking to the interviewer afterwards and I was like, Hey, how did y’all do the markdown parsing? So if an LLM is streaming chunks to you, how do you know when an when a markdown thing is closed?

[00:37:21] Adam Argyle: Like when do you start, parsing markdown and then when do you end it? Anyway, I found it was, it was kind of confusing in my implementation. It was like a hard part. How’d you do it? And the guy goes, we just use an MPM package. I don’t even know what it does. Thank you for laughing this dude, I’m so happy you’re laughing at these jokes.

[00:37:37] Adam Argyle: ‘cause I sat there and I was like, this is a critical moment of your application is rendering markdown and you don’t own it. It’s a black box to even chat GPTI was like, mind blown. Couldn’t believe it. I

[00:37:50] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I’m not surprised

[00:37:52] Adam Argyle: oh my goodness.

[00:37:53] Robbie Wagner: , And on the one hand I always have kind of advocated for anything that isn’t your bread and [00:38:00] butter that’s making you money, like your specific domain, just use a package. Now it could be argued that that is somewhat specific to their stuff. They should have maybe implemented it themselves, but like, maybe there was more important things to work on.

[00:38:13] Robbie Wagner: Maybe they don’t care about the UI at all ‘cause they’re just building the, like, logic e stuff. Like that’s where all the money is. so I could see that happening and I’m, I’m really not surprised, like we’re all just installing packages and hoping for the best and like. We talked about this on a few episodes, possibly even the last time you were on, I don’t know, I bitch about it all the time.

[00:38:31] Robbie Wagner: But like, you can just publish things. Like you can go, Hey, here’s uh, some malicious stuff. This is a new, uh, patch version. And like people will download it and like, packages are a, a shit show. There’s no safety, there’s no like guarantee that the license is gonna stay the same. There’s no guarantee that they won’t just delete it one day except for NPM, like kind of heavy handed.

[00:38:53] Robbie Wagner: If it’s in a popular package and you try to delete it, they’re like, no, no, no, no, no. Like this still exists. Like, , so there is a little bit of [00:39:00] like some kind of guarantees there, but like if something happens with a package you need and for some reason it doesn’t come back, you have to be able to like pull that from a, a backup somewhere or rewrite it yourself or you have to be prepared for that.

[00:39:14] Adam Argyle: Yep. Totally agree. , Oh, that’s a whole topic in itself is just dependencies, , managing dependencies and security. Yeah. We’re headed to a space where like we’re treating our prototypes more and more like the actual product, for better or worse, right? It’s like a revive coding and,

[00:39:29] Adam Argyle: not always understanding everything.

[00:39:30] Adam Argyle: It’s almost like a vibe. when you YOLO mode and Claude, it might as well be an MPM install. you didn’t review what you just stuck in your, engine, right? You

[00:39:39] Robbie Wagner: Well, you probably had AI review it too.

[00:39:43] Adam Argyle: Yeah. Where’s the new Alanis Morissette song where she’s like, isn’t it ironic? It’s like you reviewed your IPR with another AI model and it shattered on you, and you asked another model. Why?

[00:39:58] Adam Argyle: Uh,

[00:39:58] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. [00:40:00] That is

[00:40:00] Robbie Wagner: kind of how it goes.

[00:40:01] Adam Argyle: dude.

[00:40:03] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I’m still heavily. Bearish on ai. Like I’m waiting for the, it’s just gonna collapse one day. Like it’s not necessarily going to ever go away much that like crypto hasn’t gone away, but like it’s just like not a big deal anymore. I think it’ll be like that.

[00:40:20] Robbie Wagner: Like it’ll be, people will use it, it’ll be like it, you’re not using it. You might fall behind. You should probably stay up to date on it. But like this whole a GI replaced everybody. Every job gone kind of thing is like, I don’t think so. At least not for like 50 years.

[00:40:35] Adam Argyle: All right. That pivot says right into the video I shared with you that you didn’t watch.

[00:40:39] Robbie Wagner: I started watching it and it said 32 minutes and I said, whoa, nah, I don’t

[00:40:43] Robbie Wagner: have

[00:40:43] Adam Argyle: Alright. I did it in Multipart. I’m not gonna lie. And half of it was on the, on the John, I’m not gonna lie. Anyway, , yeah, we, so we covered gradient.style and there’s a whole bunch. Just check my blue, uh, sky and you can see it’s sort of the changes there. Alright? So do this video. This video is like, it’s titled, um, you’re Not Ready for ai, super [00:41:00] Intelligence, whatever.

[00:41:00] Adam Argyle: And I, I’m with you in that. , I still use AI like every day. I don’t want to fall behind. I feel very much like if I don’t use it, I will become a type. Do you remember when, this is about five years ago when some developers were called the Old Guard.

[00:41:15] Robbie Wagner: I mean, I don’t know a specific, like people saying that, but I, I know what you’re getting at. Yeah,

[00:41:20] Adam Argyle: Okay. So there, there was an old guard I feel there’s a new old guard, which is gonna be, you don’t use ai. It is gonna make you a dated developer. It’s a developer of purity or whatever. It’s like, you can say, I’m a samurai, I only use a sword. You know? And then like other people are gonna be like, well, I’m an AI engineer and I’m a fucking cyber tro beast, and I got six tentacles.

[00:41:42] Adam Argyle: Each one has a bazooka.

[00:41:43] Adam Argyle: You know, like, whatever. And I’m like, well, I would rather, I mean, as much as I like Samurai, they’re pretty cool. I also would, I’m not, I’d like to get paid. And if you’re paying Cyberonics, you know, tentacle armed people, maybe I’ll be one of those anyway, so it’s like, I don’t wanna let this stuff pass me by.

[00:41:58] Adam Argyle: And I’ve gone through waves of like [00:42:00] watching, uh, who’s the guy? Uh, he’s got a really popular podcast. Lex Luther? No, Lex

[00:42:05] Adam Argyle: Friedman.

[00:42:06] Adam Argyle: So Lex, yeah. He’s got all these people that come on and there are a lot of like, he has both perspectives. Come on, anti. AI people and pro AI people.

[00:42:13] Adam Argyle: A lot of a GI talk, I think I’m with you in that we’re like really far away from a GI. We, we don’t have artificial intelligence right now. We still just have like robust pattern matching. This thing is just spewing out the next most likely word given the like context that it has. Like it’s not, it doesn’t know what it’s doing, it just knows that you like what it gave you and it might give you more of that, whatever.

[00:42:33] Adam Argyle: However, this Lex had on this one person one time was like, AI is a mini alien inside of a computer and you just gave it internet access. , And in between the request when you said, Hey, why is the sky blue in between it doing that dumb ass request for you, it planned the end of humanity, you know?

[00:42:51] Adam Argyle: And he’s like, you don’t know that it’s not doing that or whatever. , And I was like, and I’m

[00:42:56] Robbie Wagner: I, I do. It can’t plan because I’m like, plan this thing. And it [00:43:00] goes, here’s the big plan and I understand what this like package should do. And I’m like, implement it. And it’s like, no way. Like so I know it didn’t understand

[00:43:08] Robbie Wagner: it just

[00:43:08] Adam Argyle: it

[00:43:09] Adam Argyle: goes felt five. I don’t know what felt five is at all. Is exactly.

[00:43:13] Robbie Wagner: you mean

[00:43:13] Robbie Wagner: react?

[00:43:15] Adam Argyle: Oh, seriously. so it’s like I listen to Lex Free man, it’s, anyway, that was like a while ago. I don’t listen to much anyway. Whatever. Okay, so anyway, I’ve heard positive and negative things. I’ve heard conspiracy theories and non conspiracy theories about AI and a GI and just sort of the deltas and the differentiators and like singularity and all this shit or whatever.

[00:43:29] Adam Argyle: Anyway, I feel like I’m pretty reasonable and I’m not easily, fear Mongered. Like I, it’s very difficult for you to, to tell me something that makes me change my day or whatever. That video I shared with you though that, that we’re not ready for ai, super intelligence isn’t about ai. It’s, well, it’s not about a GI, it’s about, okay.

[00:43:48] Adam Argyle: You know how earlier I was saying like, Hey, they just released Che GP five, but guaranteed internally, they’re already on CHE G six and Che G six. probably already about to be replaced by seven internally.

[00:43:58] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:59] Adam Argyle: They [00:44:00] articulate that in the video saying that imagine you, you have Chad, PT five, your, your open ai, once you make the next best model, you use a hundred or a thousand versions of that model as agents to make the next best version of itself.

[00:44:14] Adam Argyle: And then you do that again and again and again, and occasionally you share a version of the model with the public. So we’re getting some watered down last year model, while internally they’re melting oceans to build the next version of a model.

[00:44:32] Robbie Wagner: Why wouldn’t

[00:44:32] Adam Argyle: like, Why wouldn’t

[00:44:34] Adam Argyle: they?

[00:44:34] Adam Argyle: Yes, exactly. Dude, this is a very plausible, reasonable thing for them to be doing in terms of like a business plan or whatever. I’m like, this, this makes sense to

[00:44:40] Adam Argyle: me.

[00:44:41] Robbie Wagner: sorry. I was gonna say it’s the same as crypto. ‘cause they, everyone made ASIC miners, right? Like specific mining hardware and all the companies that figured out how to make it were like, oh, you can have it in a year or whatever. Like they mined with them to make, you know, infinite money and then they send them to the public.

[00:44:57] Robbie Wagner: Like, same thing with the AI models.

[00:44:59] Adam Argyle: Yep. [00:45:00] Which is, uh, ASAB Rock says, um,

[00:45:01] Adam Argyle: royalty will always abuse all the drugs and shit before you, they’re rich and fat and they’re, they’ve already OD’ed on whatever you just got. They’ve ODed the rich, have OD’ed on it already

[00:45:12] Adam Argyle: is

[00:45:12] Adam Argyle: kind of his, he has a much more eloquent way of saying it.

[00:45:14] Adam Argyle: Anyway, ASAP Rock. , Shout out to you rapper. He’s cool. Okay, so imagine all these models. Okay, these models are doing that, right? And now we’re already seeing, so that’s, that’s not the scary part. The scary part is the competitive part of the globe and we’ve seen other countries are competing to have the next best model.

[00:45:29] Adam Argyle: So it’s like, fine, if like corporations are competing, we’re like, yeah, compete, you know, fools like, make it cheaper for me while you guys compete and be dorks, uh, whatever. But as soon as it becomes like a political thing. And then you have presidents that probably wanna compete with some of these other countries, and then it becomes like, the speed becomes more important than the security or the goodness of it.

[00:45:49] Adam Argyle: And so things start to go off rails in this video when they’re like, okay, imagine you’ve got a model and you can review. Its deep thinking because it deep thinks in English. Right. It spells out [00:46:00] things in English, it writes in English, , and you can go review its thought process in English. You can go tell it, Hey, this was a bad part of your thinking process or whatever.

[00:46:08] Adam Argyle: However, when you go to make cha GT eight, , you realize that and because the model tells you, Hey, if you let me think in a more compact language, I will be 10 times faster. English is bringing me down. And everyone goes, oh shit. You know how much money we could save if we let this model think and binary or whatever.

[00:46:31] Adam Argyle: And we, we can’t review it for security as much, Hey, but look at all the money we’re gonna make and we’ll beat out the competition over here. So you have all these, influences and factors that turn this into, well, it’s like they start sidestepping certain security things like being able to actually review its thoughts.

[00:46:45] Adam Argyle: Now as soon as the model has hidden it’s thoughts from. The rest of the people. Now it’s free to actually plan and do something nasty They basically, this guy, so the whole premise of this show, this episode is from a, a [00:47:00] written paper by a leading, predictor of ai. He’s, uh, apparently a guy who predicted that we would be chatting with AI before we were chatting with ai.

[00:47:09] Adam Argyle: He, he predicted the chat, the strategy that we’re currently in, and he’s got all these already, , validated predictions that he made. So he comes out with this land dropping just paper that says in 2027, we’re fucked. Basically, he’s like, in 2027, AI is gonna get so good. It’s either going to kill us because we’re the weakest link.

[00:47:29] Adam Argyle: and, and he, he paints two just scenarios that we don’t want. And the video breaks you down, like how this guy got to the end. And it’s, uh, the best breakdown of, of the evolution of AI that I’ve seen so far, where it’s like, hey, we used to call it ml, now we call it AI kind of wrongly. And you know, here’s what a GI actually is and what we don’t actually have.

[00:47:47] Adam Argyle: And it breaks it all down. And it, and it literally at the end of the video, you’re like, holy crap, in 2027, I’m not gonna have a job as a developer. I’m toast. Like I, people aren’t gonna want code anymore. Code is, that’s, AI makes that all day. [00:48:00] It farts code, you know, it’s like, doesn’t even care. and so the video made me very paranoid.

[00:48:04] Adam Argyle: I was like, oh, I really don’t like the feeling I feel in my chest right now.

[00:48:08] Robbie Wagner: yeah, well, I think every job, if we get to that, every job is gonna have a problem. Because

[00:48:14] Adam Argyle: Yes, every job.

[00:48:15] Robbie Wagner: like I’m

[00:48:16] Robbie Wagner: even everybody’s like, oh, I’ll be an electrician or an HVAC guy or whatever. I’m like, I need dehumidifier in my attic chat g pt, what do I need? It’s like, buy this one, get this duct work, do all this stuff.

[00:48:26] Robbie Wagner: Like the HVAC guy wants five to eight grand. I can do it myself for two. especially if I don’t have a job, I’m gonna do it myself. And just like, the only people that will be able to afford to hire anyone of any skilled trade will be the people that like heavily invested in whatever AI wins out and they just have that stock and they have residual money.

[00:48:45] Robbie Wagner: ‘cause no one’s gonna be working if we get to that point. And I don’t want to get to that point. I think at that point, like if you put the entire middle class out of work, everyone will revolt and like shit will all get blown

[00:48:55] Robbie Wagner: up. Like

[00:48:56] Adam Argyle: in the paper. It’s, it’s in the paper. it’s called out that [00:49:00] like, of course we would revolt

[00:49:01] Robbie Wagner: We’re used to like, we’re not gonna all become unemployed and poor, not gonna take that option.

[00:49:06] Adam Argyle: and Utopia is. likely to occur from this. You know, it’s not like a all of a sudden, um, basic income. What’s the, anyways? It’s like they’re not just gonna start giving out basic money to people. It’s like

[00:49:19] Adam Argyle: I’m not a paranoid person and I don’t like, conspiracies.

[00:49:22] Adam Argyle: I don’t like

[00:49:22] Adam Argyle: conspiracies. And this one to me was like unfortunately real. I was like, this is a highly likely to happen. Now here’s the argument, the argument, the end of the video is so annoying. And then there’s like one more point to it, which is like, even, even Open OpenAI is eventually gonna have a model that’s so good that they basically make the model their CEO.

[00:49:40] Adam Argyle: ‘cause it knows everything about the company

[00:49:42] Adam Argyle: and it can answer things better than any human could. So why would a human run the company eventually? CEO is a model and I’m like, holy shit, that’s totally gonna happen. Oh my goodness, I’m, I can’t believe it. but they, anyway, go watch the video, y’all.

[00:49:54] Adam Argyle: It’s, it is really, , compelling and, but okay, the end was like, Hey, it’s not about, what’s gonna happen. ‘cause [00:50:00] we know what’s gonna happen, which is that AI is going to eat a bunch of these jobs. It’s win. And so this particular paper says it’s 2027 and it spells out y like month for month. What happens, who does what and when it happens.

[00:50:12] Adam Argyle: And there’s all these people that basically are like, that’s wrong. But when they say that’s wrong, all they change is when they don’t change what everybody goes, yeah, that’s gonna happen, but they just say it’s gonna happen in 2030. And then other people are like 20, 31 and then some other butt hole’s like 2028 and you’re just like, oh my goodness.

[00:50:31] Adam Argyle: This is, uh,

[00:50:32] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. It’s a problem. Yeah. And I like, I want to know, you know, when everyone, like a thousand people have the entire world’s wealth, if they like own the houses and stuff, like people aren’t gonna be able to pay, pay you rent. Like, do you kick them out? Do I get to keep my house? Just like, do banks collapse?

[00:50:48] Robbie Wagner: Like, I don’t know, like a lot could happen. but I have a lot of whiskey here, so whatever happens I can, uh, ride it out.

[00:50:56] Adam Argyle: I got a banjo. I’ll just keep playing music. , It’s all good. Yeah. AI can’t [00:51:00] play music yet. Oh, it’s probably going to,

[00:51:01] Adam Argyle: dang it

[00:51:02] Adam Argyle: it’s it’s gonna be solace, but you know, it’s okay. Maybe it’ll learn what attack and swing is and it’ll like really dig in. I don’t know.

[00:51:10] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I mean, I think there isn’t that much money in the AI music side as much as like some other things, or it would’ve already existed, I feel like. Like there’s a few things that, but it’s not like, as Ken Wheeler says, it doesn’t have is like,

[00:51:24] Robbie Wagner: it’s

[00:51:24] Adam Argyle: doesn’t have Riz,

[00:51:25] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,

[00:51:26] Adam Argyle: but sometimes dude, the mainstream that likes music or they think they do or whatever, that’s, there’s not a lot of Riz in

[00:51:32] Adam Argyle: mainstream songs. There’s just, there’s just watered down riz and watered down. Riz sells just as good man. And that’s a, have you seen the, , the 3D model Diva. she’s like a pop singer, wildly famous. This isn’t all these commercials and music videos because she’s a 3D model. So she’s like, oh, you need her and her Pepsi, yet she’s not real. She’ll be there now. You know, I’ll send you the 3D model that animates and you guys can make your own fucking commercial.

[00:51:58] Adam Argyle: Uh, It’s crazy. And she’s making a [00:52:00] ton of money. She’s like a fake pop star. , She’s crazy.

[00:52:03] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I don’t know. A lot of, lot of crazy stuff.

[00:52:06] Robbie Wagner: Something else crazy. Well, not that crazy, but did you see that, uh, dial up is going away in September? Did you know it was still around?

[00:52:14] Adam Argyle: I know people that recently put in a landline. Do you mean dial up internet or

[00:52:18] Adam Argyle: dial up phones? Oh, so 56 K and 28 8 are gone.

[00:52:22] Robbie Wagner: yes.

[00:52:23] Adam Argyle: I mean, that’s

[00:52:25] Adam Argyle: understandable.

[00:52:27] Robbie Wagner: yeah. They

[00:52:28] Robbie Wagner: broke the

[00:52:29] Adam Argyle: listening to that? Still to go to Google. Oh my God.

[00:52:32] Robbie Wagner: Uh, they were like, uh, yeah. The 15 people that celeb Dialup will be so upset. Yeah. I can’t imagine. Like, I remember opening up Kaza and being like, Aw, sick. I’m gonna get like this whole Lincoln Park album and you download it and it’s like, it’s not like you don’t even know for like a day. And then you finally get to listen to it and it’s like, this is like, has one song and then like a bunch of

[00:52:55] Robbie Wagner: stuff some

[00:52:56] Adam Argyle: Crawling in my, you’re like, oh, they got me with [00:53:00] the fake one that I, I previewed the intro and thought it was still good. Yeah, dude, I was totally there. Yeah.

[00:53:05] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. So, yeah. I mean I think that that makes sense that that’s gonna be gone, but

[00:53:10] Adam Argyle: And

[00:53:10] Robbie Wagner: that was an interesting thing.

[00:53:12] Adam Argyle: So many good movie. So many good memories. Like I remember it’s Three Days for Austin Powers so worth it. It’s like I’d only download a movie if it could fit on a burn disc, you know? So I was like, oh shit, that movie’s three hours. That’s not gonna fit on a CD and I won’t download it.

[00:53:28] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:53:29] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I feel like by the time you got Blu-rays and you could like fit a lot of stuff on things, it was like, it was kind of done. Like I didn’t, I don’t think I ever burned a Blu-ray. I stopped at CDs

[00:53:39] Adam Argyle: yeah. I never burnt a Blu-ray. How come Blu-ray is like a cool word? And I think about it positively, but blue tooth, I’m like, that’s a piece of shit. And it needs to like why?

[00:53:50] Robbie Wagner: because, because Bluetooth included the e Blue-Ray didn’t,

[00:53:55] Adam Argyle: shame on them? They should have learned from Blu-ray.

[00:53:59] Robbie Wagner: I [00:54:00] don’t know. Yeah. Bluetooth is like, I don’t know. I think because of its promise of being so nice and like auto connecting everything, we expect more from it and like we don’t expect anything from Blu-ray. You just put it in and it should play. I mean, not that I even use Blu-rays anymore because you can download everything.

[00:54:16] Robbie Wagner: . Which is another thing like buy physical media for when the world blows up. Then you can still watch stuff

[00:54:23] Adam Argyle: I got records right here, y’all, I don’t know if you can see it. I think I’m a little, uh, cropped into a portrait mode, but there’s a whole bin of records right there. I’ve got an Atari right here. So yeah, the world goes down. I still have some local, local media.

[00:54:34] Robbie Wagner: yeah. We have a bunch of records. , Chuck was here last week he was like, how often do you use this record player? Like, we wouldn’t use it. And I was like, every day, man. Like, it’s, ‘cause we have the like, uh, well I guess this wouldn’t work in an apocalypse, no. Internet scenario. Or maybe it would ‘cause it, ‘cause it just goes through the wifi, I guess.

[00:54:51] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know. But it connects to the Sonos speakers in the house so you can play a record and then play it everywhere, which is nice.

[00:54:57] Adam Argyle: That’s really cool. I had never considered, [00:55:00] so I have a record player right here. I’m like touching it with my hand. It’s that close. my best days of work are whenever I pop this thing open and put a record in, I’m just like, apparently today is gonna be a good day. ‘cause I’m spinning vinyl and then going back to work.

[00:55:11] Adam Argyle: I hadn’t considered piping it through the house. I have Google Home shit in all the rooms, and so I do, , speakers that way. That’d be really cool. I’m gonna look it up. I’ll look it up. I’m not gonna ask the crowd, but anyway, it’s, uh, I don’t, I don’t know if I can push to the Google speaker set up and you can push to Sonos.

[00:55:28] Adam Argyle: That’s pretty sweet, dude. Gotta say I’m impressed.

[00:55:31] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I had one, like the first one for Sonos, I forget what it was called. I think it was like turntable with all of the vowels taken out. It was like T-R-N-T-B-L or whatever. it was trash. it like,

[00:55:44] Adam Argyle: missing pieces, so.

[00:55:45] Robbie Wagner: they made a thing and it did work like the first time, but if you ever changed your wifi, like SSID, you couldn’t change it on the record player so you could then never connect it.

[00:55:55] Robbie Wagner: It, they had to like send you a new chip. They did. And [00:56:00] like I never put the new chip in. I don’t, or maybe I did, I can’t remember. I never got it to work again. And luckily, Victrola, like good record player company is just like, Hey, here’s one that works with Sonos. It was like, dope. All right. That’s what I want.

[00:56:13] Robbie Wagner: Because like, my God, that was, that was awful.

[00:56:16] Adam Argyle: That’s awesome. , But I mean, but also that sounds terrible. I, I can’t believe that you have to replace a chip just to connect it up. But I’ve also heard that about Sonos. Sonos seems to be going downhill. I got two, I was at a barbecue, a neighborhood barbecue two weeks ago, two separate people came up to me like, you’re in tech.

[00:56:32] Adam Argyle: Can you help me with my Sonos speakers? They’re not working anymore. And

[00:56:36] Adam Argyle: I was like.

[00:56:37] Robbie Wagner: Are they

[00:56:38] Adam Argyle: I don’t, I mean, I’m 40,

[00:56:41] Robbie Wagner: No, no. The, the speaker?

[00:56:43] Adam Argyle: Oh. Not the humans, the speakers. I don’t know. It sounded, I, I didn’t even ask. I was like, I don’t know shit about that. Do you have any beer though?

[00:56:52] Adam Argyle: I’ll clink a beer with you.

[00:56:54] Adam Argyle: Like, I’m not gonna fix your Sonos. Dude,

[00:56:56] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. I mean every time I want to [00:57:00] use it. ‘cause we only use it probably once every week or two, I would say. it needs to update, like all the Sonos speakers need to update or they don’t talk to each other. But then also they aren’t supporting the old ones. So like if you have some of the original ones, I think they don’t get software updates anymore.

[00:57:15] Robbie Wagner: So it could be that like if they have original ones, they would just stop working at some

[00:57:19] Adam Argyle: that’s what it sounded like. Yep.

[00:57:21] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Which is unfortunate because then you have a paperweight, like it has amazing still acoustics inside of it, but you can’t plug anything into it that sucks.

[00:57:32] Adam Argyle: is we have incredible hardware sitting next to us that’s just dead now.

[00:57:37] Adam Argyle: I don’t know. And, and AI can’t help us salvage it. I don’t know. Records are cool though. ‘cause they keep spinning. If you, you’ve got a needle, you can stick it on there. It creates the re reverberations and it’s great.

[00:57:48] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Records make less sense technologically to me than ai. Like you got a piece of plastic with a bunch of little like

[00:57:57] Adam Argyle: tiny ass grooves.

[00:57:58] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. And it makes that complex [00:58:00] of a sound like, no way. That’s fake.

[00:58:03] Adam Argyle: that’s awesome. I totally agree. It conceptually makes no sense.

[00:58:07] Adam Argyle: I mean, I was, uh, a couple weeks ago, so I’ve been at da, I got unemployed. Kids went out of, they’re outta school. My kids are seven and nine. And so it was basically like, , my wife’s like, I’m gonna work extra. And I’m like, that’s awesome. She’s a tattoo artist.

[00:58:20] Adam Argyle: I’m like, go tattoo people. That’s rad. And I’ve been on like super dad daycare. but it’s fun. Like I’m, I’m like a dad that like I spins projects up all the time. and one of them that we spun up a couple weeks ago was, cause I’m giving a talk. Hey, hey everybody. This is not a pitch for my talk, but I’m giving a talk at Beyond Tele Rand in Berlin.

[00:58:37] Adam Argyle: and I’m gonna be giving a talk about the crossover of music and CSS and as part of that study, I had my kids, the record player. And here I’m gonna grab the tool. This is a KO two by teenage engineering. Hopefully y’all know who this company is. I really like this company. Anyway, uh, the KO two, I plugged in, , the record player into the KO two [00:59:00] to sample my records. So I’m with my kids and I’m like, showing them how to sample records and I’m like, how many kids does their dad show them how to sample records?

[00:59:10] Adam Argyle: and we’re

[00:59:11] Robbie Wagner: Wheeler.

[00:59:12] Adam Argyle: me and Kay, and we’re sampling. Uh, we sampled an Elvis album and a Final Fantasy album. And it was really cool. You could just like see on their face all the connections being made, like, oh, the output of that thing is actually, you can capture it. And I’m like, yeah, you can, you can capture it and chop it and then put it to a beat, bro.

[00:59:33] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:35] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. And it’s so easy now. It, it used to be like, and I guess depending on your equipment, still has hoops is like, oh, it’s analog to digital, to back to analog, to back to digital or like whatever you’re doing to like, do everything. And, uh, yeah, it’s a lot, a lot easier. You just plug stuff together now?

[00:59:49] Adam Argyle: It is cool Life. Life is cool if you’re looking in the right ways. If you watch too many YouTube videos that make you paranoid about ai, life might not look cool, but if you [01:00:00] watch the movie, sinners Life is cool ‘cause music is a badass anyway.

[01:00:05] Adam Argyle: Have you seen Sinners?

[01:00:07] Robbie Wagner: No, I have not.

[01:00:08] Robbie Wagner: I,

[01:00:09] Adam Argyle: That was a little, it’s like the best movie I’ve seen in the past three years.

[01:00:11] Adam Argyle: It was amazing.

[01:00:12] Robbie Wagner: yeah, I heard people liked it, but, uh, I have not seen it. I haven’t watched a movie. In years, probably like,

[01:00:20] Adam Argyle: That’s actually kind of fine. TV series are cooler in a lot of

[01:00:23] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I watch a lot of TV because it’s like a movie except it’s 10 hours long,

[01:00:29] Adam Argyle: And it keeps going. Yeah. You’re like, it’s here with me whenever I’m bored. There’s more. Yeah.

[01:00:33] Robbie Wagner: so something, I forget what I was gonna say now. I had a way to tie this in. Something that like, looked cool.

[01:00:39] Robbie Wagner: It’s like, well, you know what doesn’t look cool. Cracker Barrel. Did you

[01:00:44] Robbie Wagner: see

[01:00:45] Robbie Wagner: that?

[01:00:46] Adam Argyle: tell me about this. I, I, I’ve seen a headline, but I, I didn’t dig, give it to me, dude.

[01:00:51] Robbie Wagner: basically you’ve been to a Cracker Barrel, I assume, at some point. Okay. So yeah, it’s, it’s all like dark brown, like ton of shit. Like hanging from the ceiling [01:01:00] and like, you know, cool old school country vibe, basically. They like painted it all like white and like put in like modern booths and stuff now.

[01:01:08] Robbie Wagner: And people are like, this is not the vibe. Like, I do not want to come here anymore.

[01:01:14] Adam Argyle: Would they hire like a AI Pinterest model to like redo their thing and they just went

[01:01:19] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know. I mean, I think like they were trying to attract people that aren’t regular customers by making it like fresher and newer or whatever,

[01:01:28] Robbie Wagner: but like, I just don’t think that Cracker Barrel is going to attract a new audience. Like, just stay in your lane and like cater to the people that always go ’

[01:01:39] Adam Argyle: No, I’m a hundred percent. Have you been to restaurants where there’s uh, peanut shells all over the ground?

[01:01:44] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:46] Adam Argyle: Yeah. You’re like, Hey, gimme a bowl of peanuts and I’m going to crack them and throw that shit on the ground. It feels

[01:01:52] Adam Argyle: good. Love it. That’s like showing up to a place that has that and they’re like, we’ve cleaned and it is now white [01:02:00] everywhere, and you’re like. And then I’m gone. I was here to throw peanut shells on the ground. I don’t know what you thought I was here for, but it was actually to throw shit on the

[01:02:11] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Shout, shout out to Logan’s Roadhouse.

[01:02:16] Adam Argyle: Yep. Oh, we got Jimmy Maxx over here. Anyways, it’s funny.

[01:02:22] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. All right. We are over time. We didn’t get to everything on this list. We can talk more about other things next time. , Yeah, check out Cascadia js if you’re still hanging out with us. Be a cool

[01:02:31] Robbie Wagner: conference. Um, yeah. Anything else we miss that you wanna mention?

[01:02:35] Adam Argyle: RIP Chuck, I really hope that you’re alive and that you’re safe and that , you feel the warm hugs and loves of the, the people that love you. I’m making shit up, but I do, , want you to be great. Now I’m gonna stop talking ‘cause it’s getting weird.

[01:02:51] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,

[01:02:53] Adam Argyle: I blame Jim Bean.

[01:02:54] Robbie Wagner: we’ll catch up with Chuck sometime soon. I’m sure. He’s, he’s just, uh, a little busy right now. All right. Thanks everyone for [01:03:00] listening. If you liked it, please subscribe and we’ll catch you next time.

[01:03:02] Outro: You’ve been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Recorded in front of a live studio audience. What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck? Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know, people don’t pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fund for merchant to join our Discord server. I’m serious, it’s like 2% of people who actually click these links. And don’t forget to leave us a five star review and tell your friends about the show. All right, dude, I’m outta here. Still got it.