228: Santa.exe (Presented by CodeRabbit)

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week’s JS Party. Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. With your hosts, Robbie the Wagner, and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That’s right Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development.

[00:00:27] Intro: I mean, it’s all in the name. It’s not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set.

[00:00:36] Whiskey web and whatnot is brought to you by.

[00:00:41] Code reviews are critical, but time consuming CodeRabbit acts as your AI co-pilot providing instant code review comments and potential impacts of every pull request beyond just flagging issues. CodeRabbit provides one click fix suggestions and lets you define custom code quality rules. Using A ST GRE patterns, this catches subtle issues that [00:01:00] traditional static analysis tools might miss.

[00:01:02] CodeRabbit is the category defining platform for AI code reviews. Built for modern engineering teams navigating the rise of AI generated development code Rapids context aware reviews, pulling dozens of points of context, making them the most comprehensive AI code reviews with customization features that allow you to tailor your review to your code base.

[00:01:20] Code Rapids comments and proof with time and interactions. Code Rabbit helps organizations catch bugs, strengthen security, and ship reliable code at Speed Trust by thousands of companies in open source projects worldwide. CodeRabbit helps reduce review time and bugs by 50%.

[00:01:36] Robbie Wagner: Up on the rooftop reindeer paw, or, I was already wrong on that. Anyway,

[00:01:43] Chuck Carpenter: okay.

[00:01:44] Robbie Wagner: what’s up? This is the holiday edition of Whiskey Web and whatnot with your hosts interrupting Charles

[00:01:54] Chuck Carpenter: mm-hmm.

[00:01:54] Robbie Wagner: III. And,

[00:01:55] Chuck Carpenter: Yes.

[00:01:58] Robbie Wagner: yeah, no, it is [00:02:00] Robbie the Wagner. Charles William Carpenter ii and Adam Thomas Argyle, the nerd. What’s up everybody? Nice sweaters.

[00:02:07] Chuck Carpenter: I like how

[00:02:07] Robbie Wagner: Glad we coordinated.

[00:02:08] Chuck Carpenter: Alphabetized. Yes. RCA, how you like that? Yeah. RCA,

[00:02:15] Robbie Wagner: we are, uh, drinking random whiskeys today. None of this raiding bullshit. We’re just gonna drink stuff and enjoy it. I’m plugged in, so I’m gonna, I don’t know how I’m gonna grab this whiskey while

[00:02:25] Robbie Wagner: I’m without ripping

[00:02:26] Chuck Carpenter: well what you try and do that, and I’m gonna say, well, today I’m having the ladu. it is a single malt whiskey. It is French. Because I decided if I’m gonna do this podcast thing, I’m just gonna go down the street to the enoteca in my neighborhood and just get something they already have.

[00:02:46] Chuck Carpenter: Because trying to chase down things that these dorks can get in America is really hard.

[00:02:52] Robbie Wagner: right. I’ve got Flavia’s five and six of the admin calendar. I’m well behind [00:03:00] because as, uh, folks may know if they listen to the one where I gave a monologue about all the shit happening in my life to Adam, I’ve been dealing with, , dogs trying to die on me and my life falling apart. So I have not made it through the advent calendar.

[00:03:12] Robbie Wagner: but we can have some

[00:03:13] Chuck Carpenter: that would accelerate you through the admin calendar. From what I have heard and has

[00:03:17] Chuck Carpenter: this change.

[00:03:19] Robbie Wagner: I just like go, I sit down and just fall asleep. Like that’s, that’s my best case scenario

[00:03:23] Robbie Wagner: right

[00:03:24] Chuck Carpenter: It sounds like this show has

[00:03:25] Adam Argyle: to dad, right? You’re like, what? How did parents always fall asleep so fast? You’re like, oh, shit. Now I know exactly how. Yeah.

[00:03:31] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Sleep apnea.

[00:03:33] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Stop breathing. That helps. , Has this show changed to whiskey, web and therapy? Let’s feeling.

[00:03:40] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know. I

[00:03:41] Adam Argyle: burn, bro.

[00:03:42] Robbie Wagner: yeah. I just had a lot to bitch about, but I’m, I’m done. We don’t have to talk about it anymore.

[00:03:46] Chuck Carpenter: it in and whatever else. life is hard. You should be able to express it. We’re men, actually, no. You suppress that shit and drink, like, shut up,

[00:03:56] Chuck Carpenter: grow some balls. That’s what we

[00:03:58] Adam Argyle: that’ll that’ll make you happy. That’s, that’s how [00:04:00] you get over stuff. You just push it

[00:04:01] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Nothing

[00:04:03] Adam Argyle: let it go. It was all

[00:04:04] Adam Argyle: about, it was just that.

[00:04:05] Chuck Carpenter: No. Yeah, that totally worked. Definitely didn’t get me beaten as a kid. Oh, wait, did I say that out loud? That’s so weird.

[00:04:12] Adam Argyle: Ooh,

[00:04:14] Adam Argyle: this

[00:04:14] Adam Argyle: tickle is yummy.

[00:04:15] Chuck Carpenter: It’s a therapy show.

[00:04:17] Adam Argyle: I’ve got George Dickel here.

[00:04:20] Robbie Wagner: Oh, I’m just laughing ‘cause we were talking about all the, the Dickel jokes and you’re like, Ooh, this Dickel is

[00:04:24] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Take your Dickel out or Kyle,

[00:04:30] Adam Argyle: pop the top on the Dickel.

[00:04:31] Adam Argyle: Oh man. It’s good though. Smells like apple juice. It , has this very, it’s super sweet. Oh man. It’s very sweet, but it’s

[00:04:39] Chuck Carpenter: Interesting. Yeah.

[00:04:40] Adam Argyle: Hmm

[00:04:41] Chuck Carpenter: Well, my ladi is, uh, a French single malt and does not encapsulate any scotch like flavors. So even Robbie would enjoy this. I think it’s

[00:04:53] Robbie Wagner: Oh, nice. Is.

[00:04:54] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, it’s 90 proof, 45%. . Yeah, it’s actually very pleasant. It’s got a little burn. It’s [00:05:00] got a, oh, I almost wanna say like a kind of like not dried apricots.

[00:05:07] Chuck Carpenter: I know you were thinking. But it does have a little bit of like a citrus tang, but like an, a tart way to it. I don’t know, maybe like a slight nutmeg. Interesting.

[00:05:18] Robbie Wagner: Nice. I have the oak lore, four grain bourbon whiskey. It is 46% alcohol and it tells me it should taste like cake, pecans, toffee, et cetera. I’m not getting any of those notes. It is sweet. It’s yummy. Would recommend

[00:05:36] Chuck Carpenter: It’s a fruit cake. It’s like a fruit cake. You didn’t show your bottle. We all showed our bottles. Oh yeah. You had the tiny

[00:05:42] Robbie Wagner: the little guy,

[00:05:43] Adam Argyle: one.

[00:05:43] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Your little your, your little guy. Your little

[00:05:46] Adam Argyle: I’ll show a gun though. I got, so he had George tickle, Chuck was telling me about Tennessee, , whiskey and what that ‘cause. I was like, what is this? And he is like, well, it’s from, it’s Tennessee, so it’s gonna

[00:05:55] Adam Argyle: be

[00:05:55] Adam Argyle: a

[00:05:55] Robbie Wagner: It’s whiskey they make in Tennessee.

[00:05:57] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, oftentimes that’s a [00:06:00] sour mash in a bourbon style. They, I think they probably could call it bourbon. I don’t know the mash bill of what you got, but oftentimes that’s the

[00:06:08] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I think there’s something about like, you know, Jack Daniel’s popularizing Tennessee whiskey and like people thinking that’s a cool thing to call it. I think there’s some there,

[00:06:18] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, it’s probably that because Jack Daniels is by mash bill a bourbon, but the fact that they do the, filtration through charcoal that gives it, , maple filtering so they artificially flavor it. So by law can’t be called bourbon. Otherwise it would be,

[00:06:34] Adam Argyle: This the same thing here. , It says charcoal mellowed. I can taste, , maple syrup in it. It’s, that’s what I was like, I, I’m getting like a, a apple maple, brown sugar candy. Uh, it’s like a syrup even in some ways. But it’s good. It’s got a good burn, a good hug. it’s pretty mellow with the apple.

[00:06:51] Adam Argyle: There’s like a little bit of apple tartness to it, but then at the very end it kind of turns into a little bit of a cherry cough syrup and I wish it didn’t do that. Um, but until then, [00:07:00] this is delightful.

[00:07:01] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Nice. Now you know why like rock stars in the eighties would just chug bottles of Jack Daniels? ‘cause it’s kind of like candy, it’s not as hardcore as you think.

[00:07:09] Adam Argyle: not as

[00:07:10] Robbie Wagner: But it looks hardcore.

[00:07:12] Adam Argyle: Sure does.

[00:07:14] Chuck Carpenter: Heck Yeah.

[00:07:15] Chuck Carpenter: Let’s go drive Our Corvette

[00:07:16] Chuck Carpenter: work out for

[00:07:17] Chuck Carpenter: the Def Leppard guy. Right?

[00:07:19] Robbie Wagner: did he wreck a Corvette?

[00:07:20] Robbie Wagner: I’m

[00:07:21] Chuck Carpenter: I think it was a Corvette. You know how he lost an arm? The Def Leppard guy is a one-arm drummer.

[00:07:25] Adam Argyle: Yeah. He’s one of,

[00:07:26] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I knew that.

[00:07:27] Chuck Carpenter: He lost his arm in a car accident. Yeah.

[00:07:30] Adam Argyle: Interesting.

[00:07:31] Chuck Carpenter: don’t know if there was Jack Daniels involved, and I’m not sure it’s a Corvette, but in my head it definitely is

[00:07:37] Chuck Carpenter: a

[00:07:37] Chuck Carpenter: Corvette.

[00:07:38] Robbie Wagner: I can visualize that

[00:07:39] Adam Argyle: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:40] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Anyway, , do we have other things to talk about?

[00:07:43] Robbie Wagner: Yes. We have Christmas hot Takes real tree or Fake tree.

[00:07:48] Chuck Carpenter: Fake tree.

[00:07:50] Adam Argyle: Uh, I love the smell of a real tree. I like going and getting a real tree, but I hate bringing the tree home. I hate cleaning up the tree. I hate cleaning the splashes from the [00:08:00] tree. I hate everything

[00:08:01] Adam Argyle: else

[00:08:01] Chuck Carpenter: disposal of the tree. Yeah. Yeah. Everything early on.

[00:08:06] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. Agree.

[00:08:08] Robbie Wagner: yeah. We did a, uh, a hybrid. We have, uh, let’s see, 1, 2,

[00:08:13] Adam Argyle: a half. Fake half real tree.

[00:08:16] Robbie Wagner: No,

[00:08:16] Chuck Carpenter: that was a

[00:08:16] Chuck Carpenter: thing.

[00:08:17] Robbie Wagner: We have like four or

[00:08:18] Adam Argyle: some limbs on it. You know,

[00:08:19] Adam Argyle: it’s

[00:08:20] Robbie Wagner: have like four or five fake trees, and then we got one, like a tabletop real tree, just like the teeny tiny,

[00:08:26] Robbie Wagner: like put in the playroom. Little

[00:08:28] Adam Argyle: smells good in the house, but nice.

[00:08:31] Chuck Carpenter: I can’t imagine decorating four or five fake trees. Like

[00:08:37] Chuck Carpenter: decorating

[00:08:38] Chuck Carpenter: one is a thing. Yeah,

[00:08:40] Adam Argyle: My mom did that. Yep. We had lots of trees. They were all themed. It was like, this is the nightmare before Christmas tree.

[00:08:45] Adam Argyle: This is the tree that’s actually pretty, this is the tree that actually looks like Christmas. Here’s the

[00:08:50] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, you need your show tree that like guests see in your fancy living room and then you have your like, family trees that aren’t as fancy.

[00:08:57] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:08:57] Chuck Carpenter: that’s not a life I wanna live. And I’m really [00:09:00] happy that my family doesn’t listen to this show because I don’t want anyone getting any, any ideas. We can barely afford one

[00:09:06] Chuck Carpenter: tree.

[00:09:06] Robbie Wagner: five trees.

[00:09:08] Chuck Carpenter: You need five trees. You can make ‘em all your Yeah. Everybody in the house gets their own tree. No, no.

[00:09:15] Robbie Wagner: Well, we were supposed to get two more like uh, one, ‘cause Caitlyn wants all the kids to have one in their room. And I was like, the babies won’t even, won’t even remember like, let’s skip them this year. So next year we’ll probably have two more trees.

[00:09:28] Chuck Carpenter: Oh my gosh.

[00:09:29] Adam Argyle: It’s like a disappointing mom thing though. It’s like you, you’ve been saving all the ornaments and then your kid moves out and they’re like, mom, I definitely don’t want that shit. I don’t, don’t give me a box of ornaments. I just, I

[00:09:40] Adam Argyle: don’t

[00:09:41] Adam Argyle: have

[00:09:41] Chuck Carpenter: true. It’s like when they first move out, they don’t want it. But Sarah got, some of her childhood ornaments, like, uh, in her early thirties, so then she was

[00:09:51] Adam Argyle: you’re just like,

[00:09:51] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah,

[00:09:52] Adam Argyle: hook me up. I want that. Yeah.

[00:09:54] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, this was the ballerina one that I made when I was six and all that stuff. Now she loves that, like [00:10:00] my mom is not sentimental, so I, I mean, I don’t even have pictures from, I don’t know.

[00:10:05] Chuck Carpenter: Growing up for the most part,

[00:10:07] Adam Argyle: Man, my mom scrapbook, she’d go to a cabin with her, with her girly friends and scrapbook for the weekend. At least that’s what she told me. Quote, quote, quote,

[00:10:16] Chuck Carpenter: I’m

[00:10:17] Adam Argyle: all weekend. I was a naive child. How am I supposed to know?

[00:10:20] Chuck Carpenter: Right, right.

[00:10:21] Robbie Wagner: The kids call it homework these days.

[00:10:23] Chuck Carpenter: Hmm. She was scrapbooking with a punch bowl and a bunch of friends.

[00:10:30] Adam Argyle: Oh man, my wife’s, uh, mom. She had the biggest tree I’ve ever seen. So , she did multiple trees. As you know, she had her theme to trees. There’s probably five trees in the house, but one of them was three stories tall. And she got on this huge ladder. She had a, a whole shed for all of this. It took her so much time and you showed up at her house and it was like, holy cow, that Christmas tree is bigger than the one at the mall.

[00:10:52] Adam Argyle: it’s beautiful. I don’t know how you, why all, I have so many questions, but there it is.

[00:10:58] Chuck Carpenter: there it is. I love that for

[00:10:59] Adam Argyle: [00:11:00] gave it up. She moved away this year from the house and I think it’s the, maybe the first or second year with not the huge tree.

[00:11:06] Robbie Wagner: Oh,

[00:11:06] Robbie Wagner: bummer.

[00:11:07] Adam Argyle: I bet that feels good. You know, I don’t know. I

[00:11:09] Chuck Carpenter: quite an undertaking, you know, once you like invest into that, you are, you’re in it. You’re in it.

[00:11:16] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. You’re that person. You gotta

[00:11:17] Robbie Wagner: do it

[00:11:17] Chuck Carpenter: decades of my life are about this

[00:11:20] Adam Argyle: is your identity, that tree is your identity. It’s like your app, your spa. You know, this, this code framework that I choose, this is my

[00:11:27] Chuck Carpenter: Oh right. Yeah, yeah. You are like I get, I’ve got the T-shirt.

[00:11:31] Robbie Wagner: have many t-shirts.

[00:11:33] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Robbie has all the ember t-shirts.

[00:11:36] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I also have an ember sign behind me.

[00:11:38] Adam Argyle: shirts. It looks like it’s ember. It’s just like an ember burning, you know? Is it the orange one? It should be.

[00:11:45] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, there you go.

[00:11:47] Robbie Wagner: It

[00:11:47] Chuck Carpenter: The flame in the background,

[00:11:49] Robbie Wagner: why. It won’t focus on it

[00:11:51] Chuck Carpenter: ‘cause it’s set to your face. ‘cause you finally got it right.

[00:11:55] Robbie Wagner: Fucking

[00:11:56] Chuck Carpenter: don’t have the problem that you have. I don’t have the problem. [00:12:00] Look at this. It’s always focused on this beautiful mug.

[00:12:04] Adam Argyle: it’s

[00:12:04] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I don’t know.

[00:12:05] Robbie Wagner: Maybe it’s ‘cause my room is so dark as well. I have no idea.

[00:12:09] Chuck Carpenter: Matches

[00:12:10] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know how cameras work. All right, so,

[00:12:12] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, that was just one

[00:12:14] Robbie Wagner: White lights, or colored lights.

[00:12:16] Chuck Carpenter: colored lights. Lights. Oh, shit.

[00:12:19] Adam Argyle: Oh man, I grew up, I grew up, my mom did only white lights. , She’s like an interior decorator. She didn’t, she liked Christmas, but didn’t want it to look like Christmas. You know, it needed to be pretty

[00:12:29] Adam Argyle: and,

[00:12:29] Chuck Carpenter: I, I respect

[00:12:30] Adam Argyle: like diamonds.

[00:12:31] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. You had a, did you have a fancy upbringing in some way that

[00:12:35] Chuck Carpenter: I

[00:12:35] Adam Argyle: No, dude, we were super poor, but my mom was a decorator.

[00:12:38] Adam Argyle: So like, the upstairs in our house was, you know, it was almost like that room that you can’t, you can’t walk in. Like, a lot of people would visit our house and go to the bathroom and be like, which towel do I use for my hands? ‘cause there’d be like, fi like every towel’s fancy. They’re like, which is the shitty one that I wipe my, you know, shit on?

[00:12:56] Adam Argyle: Or

[00:12:56] Chuck Carpenter: Mm, well you,

[00:12:57] Adam Argyle: they’re kind of all crappy. We’re all kids. We’re [00:13:00] eight. , We treat them all like crap. So grab a towel, yo.

[00:13:03] Chuck Carpenter: interesting. In my house, they’d be like, which one is clean?

[00:13:06] Chuck Carpenter: Why is your mom drunk? And which one is clean? Well, now you know how it gets there anyway.

[00:13:14] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Oh man. My mom did the same thing with the towels. Like there’s like the base towel that you’re supposed to use for your hands, but on top there’s at least two other towels with like giant embroidered

[00:13:25] Chuck Carpenter: Right, right. And sometimes they’re folded nicely. ‘cause I had friends

[00:13:28] Adam Argyle: Yeah. Well, and they’re stiff. You touch ‘em, you’re

[00:13:30] Adam Argyle: like, Ugh, I don’t even want to use that one. Yeah,

[00:13:32] Robbie Wagner: It sucks to use it.

[00:13:34] Chuck Carpenter: be like, how did you fold this, like a swan? And I just wanna dry my hands

[00:13:38] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,

[00:13:38] Adam Argyle: just have a thing in this house now. I’m like, I, if we put a towel out, it needs to dry stuff. There’s so many towels. You’re like, Hey, that’s a towel. Cool. Let me touch it. I’m like, it does, it does not, nothing. It’s, my hands are still wet. I’m like rubbing and rubbing and rubbing, and the water’s still in my hands.

[00:13:52] Adam Argyle: I’m like, what the hell? Come on Wick baby. I need something that wicks. Um, so anyway, but then there’s over wicking where you touch one. You’re like, [00:14:00] whoa. I’m like, now I’m the sponge and I’m

[00:14:02] Adam Argyle: all

[00:14:02] Chuck Carpenter: Well, like those sport towels are like that, you know? I don’t know if you, I don’t know if you sport and you have a sport towel and you like, I take those to the gym and they’re really thin, so they fit in the gym bag and whatever else, and literally they just like, touch your skin. , They’re used a lot in like swim also.

[00:14:20] Chuck Carpenter: I dunno.

[00:14:21] Robbie Wagner: They’re like a sham. Wow.

[00:14:23] Chuck Carpenter: Kind of like, I know those, not rubbery like a sham. Wow. I do know the, I know the ShamWow towels, , they’re not rubbery like that, but they’re,

[00:14:31] Robbie Wagner: No, No, no, Not the same, uh, just the same idea of like super absorbent,

[00:14:36] Chuck Carpenter: super absorbent. Those are amazing. But you can’t put those out for guests also, you know, you need a middle ground.

[00:14:42] Robbie Wagner: oh, sorry. I was gonna say, I got scammed by the, the sham Wow. Guy at the beach, like when they were popular, there’s like a booth and he’s like, here’s a two liter of soda. And I poured it on this thing and like nothing came off. And I was like, oh my God, I need one. And then you bring it home and you put like a cup of water on it and it’s already dripping.

[00:14:57] Robbie Wagner: And I’m like, this thing is a scam. This is [00:15:00] not real.

[00:15:01] Adam Argyle: What kind of water did he have in that two liter?

[00:15:03] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:15:05] Chuck Carpenter: He got your 20 bucks though.

[00:15:07] Adam Argyle: I was gonna say, y’all watching South Park, the, uh, tally is in it, but he’s in it in a whole new way now.

[00:15:12] Chuck Carpenter: Hmm? No, I haven’t

[00:15:14] Chuck Carpenter: been

[00:15:15] Adam Argyle: he’s

[00:15:15] Chuck Carpenter: on Paramount

[00:15:16] Chuck Carpenter: plus.

[00:15:17] Adam Argyle: sex rag. He’s

[00:15:19] Chuck Carpenter: Oh yeah.

[00:15:20] Robbie Wagner: Mm.

[00:15:21] Chuck Carpenter: You can say all the words on here. You know, you could just say Comrad.

[00:15:26] Adam Argyle: I, that, that is what he is. , And it’s, but he’s like getting all this insider information, so now he’s like a tattletale, but he’s like barely alive. He’s like, ah, I can barely move. Everything gets a, they went over the top, uh, pretty, pretty heavy in this, uh, season, because yeah, Satan has a butt baby. So Trump impregnated Satan with a butt baby, and it just birthed itself in the most recent episode.

[00:15:50] Chuck Carpenter: Wow. I haven’t watched it, but I feel like I definitely should. My company’s closed the week after Christmas, before Christmas Eve, and [00:16:00] I have a lot of plans to do nothing. And so something like that sounds perfect. Like, people are like, oh, what are you gonna do with all the time?

[00:16:07] Chuck Carpenter: And I’m like,

[00:16:08] Adam Argyle: Binge South Park,

[00:16:09] Chuck Carpenter: nothing. Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:11] Robbie Wagner: Stranger things season five.

[00:16:13] Chuck Carpenter: we already

[00:16:13] Adam Argyle: some ball

[00:16:14] Adam Argyle: pit.

[00:16:14] Chuck Carpenter: up, to the, pause.

[00:16:16] Adam Argyle: the half season

[00:16:17] Robbie Wagner: not watched any of it yet, unfortunately. So no spoilers

[00:16:20] Chuck Carpenter: Okay. Uh, I can’t believe they all died. oh, is that not what you wanted to hear? That’s so weird.

[00:16:25] Robbie Wagner: in the first episode too. It was

[00:16:27] Robbie Wagner: weird.

[00:16:27] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. It’s all new characters. Enjoy. , Did anybody watch the, the Diddy Doc documentary?

[00:16:34] Chuck Carpenter: It

[00:16:35] Robbie Wagner: The one those by 50 cent.

[00:16:36] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Well, you know, the only reason why it came to fruition, and this is the best part, is that Diddy hired videographers to follow him around and take all

[00:16:49] Robbie Wagner: What a dummy.

[00:16:50] Chuck Carpenter: before his trial. ‘cause he was like, I’m gonna beat it as I have many other times. And then he didn’t. And so he [00:17:00] refused to pay them.

[00:17:00] Chuck Carpenter: So they’re like, great, this belongs to us and we’ll sell it to the highest bidder,

[00:17:04] Chuck Carpenter: 50 cents.

[00:17:05] Robbie Wagner: I watched, uh, the interview with 50 cent. Like he’s just, they’re interviewing him on like the Today Show and he has the biggest grin on

[00:17:11] Robbie Wagner: his

[00:17:12] Chuck Carpenter: oh, he’s loving it.

[00:17:13] Robbie Wagner: oh yeah.

[00:17:14] Chuck Carpenter: this idiot has made it so easy for me.

[00:17:17] Robbie Wagner: Yep,

[00:17:18] Chuck Carpenter: He holds a grudge like no other. Anyway, it’s kind of slow moving, but it also is like. When you get there and parts, you’re like, what? Okay. Yeah,

[00:17:29] Robbie Wagner: I’m a Curtis Jackson fan, so I would, uh, I would watch that.

[00:17:33] Chuck Carpenter: think it’s worth watching. I think it’s interesting. It’s about four hours of your time, so

[00:17:38] Adam Argyle: Holy

[00:17:39] Robbie Wagner: Ooh, God. I don’t have four hours of time. That’s like six weeks of

[00:17:42] Chuck Carpenter: Well, right,

[00:17:43] Adam Argyle: yeah.

[00:17:44] Chuck Carpenter: So you’ll just like pause every 15 minutes. It’s fine. It’ll take you six weeks. Still worth it.

[00:17:49] Robbie Wagner: All right. I have a new

[00:17:50] Adam Argyle: y’all got extra time, oh, go ahead. Yeah,

[00:17:52] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.

[00:17:53] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know what it is. Continue until I find the page.

[00:17:55] Chuck Carpenter: Okay.

[00:17:55] Adam Argyle: Man. If you got extra time, haven’t played a game this addicting in a while and maybe you don’t like [00:18:00] addicting games but it’s, uh, it’s called Ball Pit and maybe you’ve heard of it. You’re, it’s, do you remember a breaker or breakout or,

[00:18:06] Chuck Carpenter: I breakout. I

[00:18:07] Chuck Carpenter: remember

[00:18:07] Adam Argyle: okay. So many variants of this game, right? So imagine the, like instead of your paddle just being stationary in your breaking. Bricks. Imagine those bricks are like little enemies that get spawn for you and then you’re, you’re moving north, so you’re slowly progressing and you have to take out these enemies. As they keep coming in, they change up.

[00:18:25] Adam Argyle: So it’s not just a brick anymore. It’s kind of like a little dude that might take two hits, might take four hits, he might , try to shoot you with fire or whatever. And as you’re going, you keep collecting these mods to your character. So it’s kinda like risk of rain. It’s very rogue light or rogue legacy.

[00:18:39] Adam Argyle: Right. , And you’re modifying your, balls. So it’s like your balls get hotter, your balls get cold. Now I’m just gonna lean in.

[00:18:47] Robbie Wagner: It

[00:18:47] Robbie Wagner: gets

[00:18:48] Chuck Carpenter: They just start to droop a little

[00:18:50] Adam Argyle: Oh man. You evolve your balls, you can, , I’m like, what else does it? You can fuse your balls. You can, there’s ball fusion. anyway, your character like, gets more powerful, but then like more enemies show up [00:19:00] and then like, if you collect your ball before it hits the back, you can shoot your ball again sooner.

[00:19:05] Adam Argyle: And so there’s like these weird, like little things, but it’s like

[00:19:07] Chuck Carpenter: It’s like Viagra.

[00:19:08] Adam Argyle: addicting. and it’s super fun. You’re just sort of, and then after you have attempted the, the level or whatever, you go back to your base and then like now it’s a base builder. And so you build a base, , you need to farm things.

[00:19:20] Adam Argyle: You need to build your city, and then you can launch, all of the heroes you’ve unlocked through the city, like, like a pinball machine. And everything they bounce off is like a resource you get. And so it’s just this, it’s this stupid weird game where you’re like, I’m gonna go dig into this level and try to beat it, and then I’m gonna go back to my village and make my character and my, stuff better.

[00:19:37] Adam Argyle: And then go back in. And there’s different characters with different powers. All these different balls that you can launch, ball pit. I don’t know. , It’s really great.

[00:19:44] Chuck Carpenter: Okay, and this is available on Steam?

[00:19:48] Chuck Carpenter: On

[00:19:48] Adam Argyle: it’s everywhere. Steam switch. It’s like where we want it

[00:19:51] Adam Argyle: to

[00:19:51] Chuck Carpenter: Everywhere. Balls are fused.

[00:19:54] Adam Argyle: are fused. You want a fuse? Some balls? Check out. Ball pit. It’s been pretty good

[00:19:58] Chuck Carpenter: I mean games, I have a [00:20:00] very narrow,

[00:20:01] Adam Argyle: soccer, right?

[00:20:02] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, I mean fifa, so I’ve been playing fifa. There was one that was released I think on like, , gog. , It’s the one that was like DRM free games, so gog.com. And I discovered it through Amazon Prime Games, which is now like Luna and all that other weird shit.

[00:20:21] Chuck Carpenter: But anyway, it was called Roe Valley and it’s a very story-driven one, and you’re on this like weird time loop and

[00:20:29] Chuck Carpenter: you can make all these weird choices as you’re going. That was one I played a bit recently, and then I had a point where I was like, okay, I can’t do this time loop 36 more times.

[00:20:39] Adam Argyle: What’s that movie?

[00:20:40] Adam Argyle: He’s in a time loop Memento.

[00:20:42] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, memento is definitely it. Yeah. That would be one is I’d say it’s more Memento esque. No.

[00:20:49] Chuck Carpenter: so that’s one to check out, but I really want to play the new Indiana Jones, the, and the great circle or whatever.

[00:20:55] Adam Argyle: Whoa.

[00:20:56] Robbie Wagner: didn’t know they had a game.

[00:20:58] Adam Argyle: I mean,

[00:20:58] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. And I like an [00:21:00] adventure game with a story. I’m, I’m trying to play a story if I’m getting in there.

[00:21:03] Chuck Carpenter: So like,

[00:21:04] Robbie Wagner: I imagine it’s gonna be like, uh, like uncharted style or something. Have you played uncharted?

[00:21:10] Adam Argyle: is this Bethesda coming in

[00:21:12] Robbie Wagner: Okay. Whoa. Bethesda

[00:21:14] Adam Argyle: talking about

[00:21:15] Chuck Carpenter: no. It, it exists now. So Indiana Jones game and the Great circle. What are you talking about? Like, what

[00:21:23] Adam Argyle: Great Circle?

[00:21:24] Chuck Carpenter: and the great circle it exists right

[00:21:27] Adam Argyle: coming out. Okay. Here’s the great circle. I see it. Yeah. No, it says coming to switch in 2026.

[00:21:31] Chuck Carpenter: Oh yeah. Well you don’t want that shit on switch anyway.

[00:21:34] Adam Argyle: It says Bethesda.

[00:21:36] Robbie Wagner: everything Bethesda puts out his fire, so would play.

[00:21:39] Chuck Carpenter: and it’s on sale right now through goog.com for like 60 bucks or something for the a hundred dollars version. So I’m like, but you can also play it for

[00:21:48] Robbie Wagner: by Bethesda Soft Works.

[00:21:50] Chuck Carpenter: You can play it for free right now though, through Amazon Luna. and I think if you’re Prime members, which you all are,

[00:21:58] Chuck Carpenter: did you know your prime [00:22:00] membership does not transfer overseas?

[00:22:02] Chuck Carpenter: amazon.it

[00:22:03] Chuck Carpenter: is its own thing. It’s annoying.

[00:22:06] Robbie Wagner: When you try to log in, just go, ah, Laura,

[00:22:09] Chuck Carpenter: Oh, Laura, create a new account, uh, which I did because I don’t want to pay, like import fees, which by the way, I got my celebration whiskey today, but I had to pay cash money to get it because FedEx is

[00:22:22] Robbie Wagner: cash on delivery.

[00:22:24] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, well, no, it was paid for there, but I had to pay the import tax and I had to pay it in cash, and I had no idea, nothing said.

[00:22:32] Chuck Carpenter: The guy shows up and is like, gimme, you know, he’s like, gimme 50 bucks. And I’m like, I don’t have 50 bucks.

[00:22:38] Robbie Wagner: Well then you don’t have a package.

[00:22:40] Adam Argyle: Dude,

[00:22:40] Adam Argyle: you

[00:22:40] Chuck Carpenter: like, I’m gonna come back in three hours, go get 50 bucks. I’m like, okay.

[00:22:45] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, hopefully you found an ATM because there were would definitely be no people working that could give you

[00:22:51] Robbie Wagner: cash.

[00:22:51] Chuck Carpenter: Mm. No. Yeah. I try to interact with the least amount of humans possible, mostly because I have the least amount of language [00:23:00] possible.

[00:23:00] Chuck Carpenter: it’s

[00:23:00] Robbie Wagner: I mean they all do English though, probably at least probably better

[00:23:03] Robbie Wagner: than

[00:23:04] Robbie Wagner: your

[00:23:04] Chuck Carpenter: the government people. Yeah, the government people. No, they don’t, they don’t fuck with that. It gets real hard.

[00:23:09] Chuck Carpenter: my favorite part is at the grocery store.

[00:23:12] Chuck Carpenter: I think you can do this at places in the States, but whatever, like you have your loyalty card and I go and I scan it and I get a scanner, and I take my scanner and as I’m shopping, I just scan my product, put it in the bag, scan my product, put it in the bag, whatever. At the end, I go to this little station, scan my scanner in, and it’s like, great.

[00:23:32] Chuck Carpenter: It costs this much. I pay and I leave. Never talk to a human.

[00:23:36] Robbie Wagner: Yep, that’s perfect.

[00:23:38] Chuck Carpenter: it’s amazing. I love this. And this isn’t just a language thing, I just don’t want to talk to people while I’m shopping and I don’t want to go to, I mean. The problem is, is that so many places in the states have eliminated, like the whole like human line where they scan things in, somebody bags for you.

[00:23:56] Chuck Carpenter: It’s all self-checkout and I do not work here. So [00:24:00] if I have to work here, I want to just get done as I’m shopping and leave, I brought a bag, I scan my stuff, I pay you and I leave. If I have to go through an area where I have to scan through and do my own bagging, then I work here and I don’t like to work here.

[00:24:19] Chuck Carpenter: So,

[00:24:19] Robbie Wagner: Yes. We are familiar with your, your thoughts on that. Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen the, the Whole Foods ones where it’s like Dash Lane or something like that, you get a cart that has a built-in, it has a built-in scanner and, , thing to waste stuff on so you can put your produce on the scale and it like, you know, put it all in there and you, you put your bags in first and it scans like how much they weigh, I guess.

[00:24:41] Robbie Wagner: yeah, you just walk out like you’re walking through and it’s like, hit this line to like, confirm everything. Hit this line to like, charge your credit card on file. Like you don’t do anything but just walk out. It’s awesome.

[00:24:52] Chuck Carpenter: I don’t know. But when I was in Seattle and Adam and I did build, and we did our podcast at Build, when I went to [00:25:00] go buy the whiskey for our shows, I went to this. Yeah, you remember that? Did you go with me? I don’t even remember, but I know that we walk in, we like scan your card, you get what you want, and then you just left with your shit.

[00:25:16] Chuck Carpenter: It was amazing.

[00:25:17] Adam Argyle: There were humans just monitoring what

[00:25:19] Adam Argyle: you

[00:25:19] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. They were kind of like, eh, maybe him, maybe not him. I don’t know. Yeah.

[00:25:23] Adam Argyle: So, wait, I’m, I’m a little

[00:25:25] Adam Argyle: confused. you’re totally down with. Working for the grocery store as you put things in your cart, but you’re not down to work for the grocery store if it’s all done at the end. And then this just reminds me of like what performance? Like you’ve got a, you can just in time, you know, make your little purchases and build your cart, or you can just gather all your stuff and then show up in a waterfall strategy.

[00:25:47] Adam Argyle: And, , it’s like, , pick your way. You, you still did the work either way, Chuck. It’s kind of what I’m at. I’m like getting to,

[00:25:52] Chuck Carpenter: True, but like, think about it this

[00:25:54] Robbie Wagner: take it out again,

[00:25:56] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Like I, I was already going [00:26:00] to put these things in my cart or whatever. Like I have the little cart thing and I just put my bag in that and I can either just grab the thing from the shelf, throw it in there, or I could scan it real quick as I do it and then be done. And so that’s where they get me. Sure. They can,

[00:26:16] Adam Argyle: apps versus the website. Yeah.

[00:26:18] Chuck Carpenter: which is funny that they do that here because they’re all about. maintaining employment for as many people as possible. They’re not trying to eliminate jobs here or make anything that much easier. So I don’t know where this came from, but I like the magic

[00:26:31] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, it’s probably not Italian owned.

[00:26:34] Chuck Carpenter: Ilunga. You know, you guys all go to Ilunga, right?

[00:26:38] Robbie Wagner: Sure don’t.

[00:26:39] Chuck Carpenter: We do have LID here, which is a German company, and they don’t do that. They do

[00:26:45] Robbie Wagner: Are they the ones where you have to like give them a quarter to get a cart?

[00:26:49] Chuck Carpenter: Every

[00:26:49] Chuck Carpenter: place you have to give a Euro to get a card. That’s just the

[00:26:53] Robbie Wagner: Well, I mean here too, like I think they do it here. You have to have a quarter and no one has quarters. ‘cause who the fuck has a quarter ever? Like[00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I never have cash. We just keep Euros like in a few places just for getting carts here, which is

[00:27:08] Robbie Wagner: mm-hmm.

[00:27:09] Chuck Carpenter: One Euro’s gonna stop me from stealing a cart. I don’t know if I’m a homeless person and I get from one Euro, I’m like, well, I own a cart now.

[00:27:17] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. We talk about web at all or do y’all want to go

[00:27:20] Adam Argyle: back into, uh,

[00:27:22] Chuck Carpenter: is web? What is

[00:27:22] Chuck Carpenter: web?

[00:27:24] Robbie Wagner: do we do we write code.

[00:27:26] Chuck Carpenter: now I’m a, I’m a permanent tech lead. Have you guys tried Big Pickle?

[00:27:31] Robbie Wagner: I

[00:27:31] Robbie Wagner: have.

[00:27:32] Adam Argyle: yes. That’s an open code. Right?

[00:27:34] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. That was their own

[00:27:36] Adam Argyle: I

[00:27:36] Adam Argyle: just tried open code this week for the first time. You both kept talking so much shit about it. I saw other people talking shit about it and I was like,

[00:27:42] Adam Argyle: okay,

[00:27:42] Adam Argyle: well I like to try things.

[00:27:44] Chuck Carpenter: shit about it. It, that’s my main

[00:27:46] Robbie Wagner: talking shit usually means bad

[00:27:47] Robbie Wagner: things.

[00:27:48] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. listen, youngster talking shit means bad things and we mean it in a good

[00:27:54] Chuck Carpenter: way.

[00:27:54] Adam Argyle: I am reversing the way that it works. Old man. You

[00:27:57] Adam Argyle: know, I’m gonna take ownership of that. I’m gonna talk [00:28:00] some good shit. Hmm.

[00:28:02] Adam Argyle: The, some of that goody good shit. , Yeah, I liked it. It was great. , It wasn’t as good as warp. I’m still on a warp train, although I don’t get to use warp at work. I’m still warping at home, but now I’m open coding at home.

[00:28:12] Adam Argyle: I don’t know. I’m trying ‘em all, just trying to figure out what’s going

[00:28:14] Adam Argyle: on.

[00:28:15] Chuck Carpenter: Cast a wide net. I say that for

[00:28:17] Chuck Carpenter: sure.

[00:28:18] Adam Argyle: , But I brought up the like, web topic ‘cause uh, there’s people this week, , multiple different people from different angles going, Hey, , if I’m just prompting, , now mostly and managing agents like a manager and I’m, orchestrating tasks and running shit in parallel and look at all this cool stuff I’m doing.

[00:28:34] Adam Argyle: I’m spending tokens. I haven’t written code, I haven’t touched the code in days. why am I even type scripting? I’m noticing that TypeScript is actually maybe 40% of the stupid ass errors that AI is fixing. So how about we just eliminate TypeScript and we go straight towards me just prompting because I don’t care about the code.

[00:28:53] Adam Argyle: TypeScript was for me and for all the sharing that we did in the understanding. AI doesn’t give a crap about that. All it does is

[00:28:59] Adam Argyle: [00:29:00] run

[00:29:00] Robbie Wagner: Wouldn’t it make it easier though? Like if it has the type guardrails? it depends on how robust your code

[00:29:06] Robbie Wagner: is.

[00:29:06] Adam Argyle: We think it does. We we’re just projecting on the agent. Like it cares about types though. Like maybe all of its connections that it’s making are just not type related. , So anyway, there’s, there’s a group of people going, do I even need types? Are types dead in a world of AI driven code development. And then the other one is CMSs.

[00:29:24] Adam Argyle: What do I need a CMS for? If all I wanna do is talk to my website and say, make this change over here. I don’t care where the data is stored. In fact, it’s in my way to even have a database if I

[00:29:35] Adam Argyle: want to

[00:29:35] Adam Argyle: change text,

[00:29:37] Adam Argyle: you know?

[00:29:37] Chuck Carpenter: So these are very disparate conversations

[00:29:40] Adam Argyle: Are they though? They’re people

[00:29:42] Adam Argyle: wanting

[00:29:42] Chuck Carpenter: they are. That’s why I’m saying that they’re disparate conversations. So yes, TypeScript is for the humans initially, right? They’re, it’s almost like pre-commit hooks, they came into play because you’re a tech lead that was trying to corral too many [00:30:00] people or something.

[00:30:01] Chuck Carpenter: And I do think of myself as a tech lead a lot when I’m working with, AI and agents and agent coding flows and yada, right? So that’s what I am is I’m like, we’re planning, we’re planning, we’re planning, we’re planning. And now I wanna see what you’re gonna do. Okay, I agree. And now I see what you did. Do I still agree?

[00:30:21] Chuck Carpenter: Okay, we’re gonna revise over that. And then we push, I mean, that’s very much a tech lead kind of role and it’s micro energy.

[00:30:29] Chuck Carpenter: But you know, that’s, I think that’s the world we’re in.

[00:30:32] CTA: This just in! Whiskey.fund is now open for all your merch needs. That’s right, Robbie. We’re hearing reports of hats, sweaters, and T-shirts, as well as a link to join our Discord server. What’s a Discord server? Just read the prompter, man. Hit subscribe. Leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and tell your friends about our broadcast. It really does help us reach more people and keeps the show growing. All [00:31:00] right, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[00:31:05] Robbie Wagner: Well, I feel like types, like if you’re doing a very continuous ag agentic workflow, like you wanna let it go and just like leave for an hour and come back. I think the types would be helpful because then it would go like, I’m gonna

[00:31:19] Robbie Wagner: throw in this random. Yeah, I’m gonna throw in random shit and it goes, oh, I got an error.

[00:31:24] Robbie Wagner: But like JavaScript errors say, you do bad me not know why. And then so like, if you have a type script error that’s like, oh, we expected it to look like this and it looked like this, then it goes, oh shit. You’re right. You’re absolutely right. Like,

[00:31:37] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:31:37] Chuck Carpenter: world. I think that like, yeah, sure the humans took it into play, but I think for a reason, and I think we’re surrounded by, very robust juniors for a bit and I think the types still give us good guard guardrails.

[00:31:52] Adam Argyle: types are small guards though. Like, think about how wasteful so many guards are where you’re like, oh, hey, uh, I just did the task you needed, but [00:32:00] I noticed that there’s a type discrepancy between HTML element and H TM L div element. Let me go ahead and spend a bunch of money and refix that. Oh shit, I fixed that and turns out there’s, I’m like, this is so ridiculous.

[00:32:11] Adam Argyle: The code has worked since day one and you know,

[00:32:13] Adam Argyle: like,

[00:32:14] Chuck Carpenter: maybe you should spend more time in planning mode. I don’t know. All

[00:32:17] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, you have to let it know like if the types pass, even if it’s not like a hundred percent the right type quote unquote, I think you have to say like, that’s fine. Don’t try to change it. If the types are saying we’re cool, like there’s not a better one.

[00:32:31] Robbie Wagner: Use the one that

[00:32:32] Chuck Carpenter: are not

[00:32:32] Chuck Carpenter: cool,

[00:32:33] Adam Argyle: Even if you ask an agent to just fix the types though on a project, it screws that up all the time. So it clearly doesn’t have some sort of master intelligence like an LSP does. This thing is just trying to infer,

[00:32:44] Robbie Wagner: it’s why you need open code.

[00:32:45] Adam Argyle: between things.

[00:32:46] Adam Argyle: , Well, maybe, but you, you mentioned specs though, which is the next most sort of like extreme concept of this.

[00:32:51] Adam Argyle: So people are like, who cares about types? Who cares about A CMS? I’m just gonna work on flat files. So now my entire

[00:32:57] Adam Argyle: project is now consumable. [00:33:00] Instantly. SPECT driven development says, uh, code doesn’t

[00:33:03] Chuck Carpenter: c created to take these changes out of developer hands though. So I’m not sure. It’s

[00:33:10] Chuck Carpenter: like

[00:33:11] Adam Argyle: That’s kind of what I mean. It’s like if people are, are, if people are prompting their way to a sol, because think about like a client, how many times have you handed off a CMS to a client and they’ve been like, uh uh, I need to change the homepage text. And they write you an email instead of going to the CMS.

[00:33:25] Adam Argyle: This is just so classic.

[00:33:27] Adam Argyle: So

[00:33:27] Chuck Carpenter: it could happen, but then what are you gonna do? You’re gonna have them prompt and then you are gonna verify the

[00:33:33] Adam Argyle: because at the end of the

[00:33:33] Robbie Wagner: are they doing that much

[00:33:34] Robbie Wagner: prompting

[00:33:35] Adam Argyle: we’re moving towards a

[00:33:36] Adam Argyle: scenario where we don’t code. I don’t think people are gonna code for much longer. We’re like moving straight towards, like, I know so many people right now that have never coded in their life and they’re building websites.

[00:33:45] Adam Argyle: They’re actually taking over aspects of the business that have to do with digital entities

[00:33:49] Adam Argyle: because they can prompt their

[00:33:50] Adam Argyle: way in, you know?

[00:33:51] Chuck Carpenter: I welcome that, but I think there’s a ceiling and I think that the people, I don’t know that we are in a CMS less world quite [00:34:00] yet, because there is too much of a convolution between the code and the content without that so far. But if you have created a site, like, okay, there are CMSs that are essentially drawing from Google Docs, right?

[00:34:17] Chuck Carpenter: Or

[00:34:17] Chuck Carpenter: markdown files, things

[00:34:20] Adam Argyle: Yeah.

[00:34:20] Chuck Carpenter: Right. Yeah, and those things could probably work pretty good in this context. Like that’s gonna get better and they can prompt away their content and it can get drawn in automatically. And there doesn’t have to be a CMS in the middle. I can see that world for a while.

[00:34:38] Chuck Carpenter: I don’t see a world where they’re prompting in the same space as you and I for a bit. I don’t know. Who knows? Accelerated like timelines.

[00:34:48] Chuck Carpenter: I say three years and then all of a sudden it’s three months. Who knows?

[00:34:52] Robbie Wagner: there’s so many times that like, if you didn’t understand what you want to build, at least like a, you know, a, a base technical [00:35:00] knowledge of what it should do, even if you don’t understand the code. You know, like, oh, it shouldn’t do this really dumb thing that you’re trying to do. Whereas like someone who doesn’t know code at all wouldn’t know that, and so they might get really lost down the wrong path.

[00:35:13] Robbie Wagner: Um. So I agree with Chuck that I, I mean, I think we are, like, there’s frequently times that I don’t touch the code. Like I, we talked about last time, Adam, how like it’s swatch. I just was like, Hey, build me a, a magnifier tool that picks colors, build it in rust, make it work on Mac, os, windows and Linux. And it was like dope.

[00:35:31] Robbie Wagner: I’ll do it now. I had to prompt the fuck outta that thing for like three weeks, but we got there. So, I think

[00:35:38] Adam Argyle: people are doing. people are willing to

[00:35:39] Robbie Wagner: not do that,

[00:35:41] Adam Argyle: Oh no, but non-technical people are, that’s what I’m realizing. This is before I even got to Shopify, I was interviewing developers that were spending 40 hours a week just prompting.

[00:35:50] Adam Argyle: I thought it was ludicrous because I was like,

[00:35:51] Adam Argyle: I,

[00:35:51] Chuck Carpenter: That’s how people get $2,000 bills though. ‘cause I have never touched that. I’ve never spent outside of my own budget and I don’t understand [00:36:00] how people are getting there because I’m running multi-agent flows. I will use work trees and I will work on the same code base and four different windows and have things happening at the same time.

[00:36:13] Chuck Carpenter: And I never go beyond my budget. So I just, I don’t know if that’s a me

[00:36:17] Chuck Carpenter: problem

[00:36:18] Adam Argyle: Oh, it’s not saying that they’ve gone beyond their budget. It’s more like they’re just patient. I,

[00:36:22] Adam Argyle: I, at least early on, I di I di I didn’t have the patience for that. Like, I was just like, no, I’m just gonna go do it. You know? I’m not gonna sit here and ask. Nice. I parent, I have, I’m a dad, dammit.

[00:36:31] Adam Argyle: Like, I, like, I’m patient with my kids. I don’t wanna be patient with AI agents. I don’t

[00:36:35] Adam Argyle: wanna be like, I

[00:36:36] Adam Argyle: dammit, I told

[00:36:37] Adam Argyle: you, you

[00:36:37] Chuck Carpenter: have, and I’m prompting. And I’m prompting and I’m prompting in multiple windows and I’ve never been, I’ve never hit limits,

[00:36:44] Chuck Carpenter: so I

[00:36:45] Robbie Wagner: what,

[00:36:45] Robbie Wagner: okay. What are you using? That would have a limit though, like.

[00:36:49] Chuck Carpenter: People talk about, I don’t know, claw code. I mean, I typ I’d

[00:36:52] Robbie Wagner: but do you have like the $20 a month one, the

[00:36:54] Robbie Wagner: $200 a month

[00:36:55] Chuck Carpenter: pays for it. I don’t know. Fucking know.

[00:36:57] Robbie Wagner: Right. So are they getting giant bills? You don’t

[00:36:59] Chuck Carpenter: [00:37:00] I doubt it. I doubt it. No, I can

[00:37:02] Chuck Carpenter: see

[00:37:02] Chuck Carpenter: on

[00:37:02] Adam Argyle: I’ve never got the bill, but shit, somebody is

[00:37:06] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. I mean, there’s a ceiling on everything

[00:37:08] Chuck Carpenter: and I’ve never hit the ceiling.

[00:37:10] Chuck Carpenter: That’s

[00:37:11] Chuck Carpenter: what I

[00:37:11] Adam Argyle: what What, I wanted to share was that people are getting wild with taking this to the extreme, which is that just like we had spec driven development, which is still looming and I still think might legitimately take over our entire industry where we

[00:37:23] Adam Argyle: don’t what I see and it’s making me upset and I like that y’all said ceilings ‘cause I’m not necessarily agreeing with everybody here, but is that the code is every month becoming less and less What I give a fuck about what I actually touch

[00:37:40] Chuck Carpenter: the beauty of the code, we’ve lost that.

[00:37:43] Chuck Carpenter: We

[00:37:43] Chuck Carpenter: are losing code so people are like destroying CMSs for just flat files that AI can edit, they’re removing types for just files that ai

[00:37:52] Chuck Carpenter: Because

[00:37:52] Chuck Carpenter: outcomes matter more. Outcomes matter more, man. So they don’t care.

[00:37:56] Adam Argyle: So,

[00:37:56] Chuck Carpenter: so what we’re moving towards is this space where code doesn’t [00:38:00] matter.

[00:38:00] Chuck Carpenter: What matters is maybe your spec or your ability to prompt or

[00:38:04] Adam Argyle: your,

[00:38:04] Chuck Carpenter: the model that you’re using. we’re like it’s shifting, , away from what I’ve spent 25 years getting good at

[00:38:10] Adam Argyle: and I don’t like it. I’m also at

[00:38:12] Adam Argyle: the same time, like I, maybe I do like it, maybe I don’t care about code. Maybe all I

[00:38:17] Robbie Wagner: can’t you imagine though, , if you do that long enough, especially if you have a big team doing that, you’re all prompting, you got like 20 people all prompting three years of like giant, messy code base, right? And then you go to implement the next feature that’s actually complex and AI doesn’t a hundred percent know how to do it.

[00:38:33] Robbie Wagner: And it’s like, I can’t,

[00:38:35] Adam Argyle: Dude, that’s what today is.

[00:38:36] Adam Argyle: Anyway, though, everybody’s code base is a three to 10 year pile of shit. I’ve never seen a single code base where everyone’s like, I’m so proud of our workflows. We’ve got fast veep builds

[00:38:47] Adam Argyle: and we’ve got, dude, every code

[00:38:49] Adam Argyle: project is a piece of garbage all piled

[00:38:51] Adam Argyle: together. It’s barely working.

[00:38:52] Adam Argyle: Every code

[00:38:53] Adam Argyle: base is barely

[00:38:54] Chuck Carpenter: I’ve never known any team in 20 years That is like, I’m proud of this soup to

[00:38:59] Adam Argyle: [00:39:00] That’s what I mean. So, so why are

[00:39:01] Adam Argyle: we

[00:39:01] Adam Argyle: protecting that? There’s even this case to, to

[00:39:04] Adam Argyle: defend in the

[00:39:04] Robbie Wagner: have always mattered

[00:39:05] Robbie Wagner: more

[00:39:06] Chuck Carpenter: love the Greenfield first six months. We love that first

[00:39:10] Adam Argyle: if it works, they’ll pay for it,

[00:39:11] Chuck Carpenter: is like smooth and pristine and we’re able to like protect it and you know, get it to whatever thing and then somebody gets in there and fucks it up. It just, it’s inevitable

[00:39:24] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:24] Adam Argyle: Yeah.

[00:39:25] Chuck Carpenter: to our opinions though. And that’s the other side of thing. Like you said, a dad gets more patient and I honestly think that I’ve become so much more patient to outcomes that I’m like, yeah, I have my preferences, I have thoughts, I know what I like, but I also know what like, kind of gets us there and like that’s okay. That’s okay. ‘cause I understand.

[00:39:49] Robbie Wagner: does readability of the code help AI at all? Like if you amplified the entire code base, would it understand it just as well as if it were like, this function does this [00:40:00]

[00:40:00] Chuck Carpenter: You could test that pretty easily by like copy pasting that

[00:40:04] Chuck Carpenter: and

[00:40:04] Adam Argyle: I’ve also got, I, I’ve checked out, so you can hack with AI very easily. So you can look at obfuscated bundles and reverse engineer them. You can be like, here’s the task I wanna do in this game. This game is loading this big ass JavaScript file. I don’t give a fuck what’s going on in there, but I do want to hack where my character is placed at the beginning of the level.

[00:40:22] Adam Argyle: Please place me where I win the level immediately and it goes boop boop, looking at all the spots and it’s like, I found the end code where it looks for your position. I’ve now set your beginning position to the end position that makes you win. You’re like, boom. Now I’m at the top of the leaderboards. it doesn’t care or know what’s going on inside of there.

[00:40:40] Adam Argyle: It just, it’s looking for relationships and connections. And the letter D is the same shit as get characters positional coordinates. You know, like it just doesn’t care.

[00:40:50] Chuck Carpenter: no, yeah.

[00:40:52] Chuck Carpenter: It’s a computer and can read computer talk. Turns out.

[00:40:55] Robbie Wagner: you’re essentially programming an assembly or like something that like, [00:41:00] like if you don’t care about the readability at all, you can make it super efficient, super small. Be like, I don’t ever wanna read the code. Just keep iterating until it does what I want. And then like, your bundle will be smaller ‘cause it’s like.

[00:41:11] Robbie Wagner: I don’t care about like, you know, doing a nice loop where you can see everything I’m doing. I’m gonna like do a reduce and like do some gross shit and just throw it in there and like, I do think there is definitely some of that, that we won’t care as long as it works. Once you have a performance issue, can it debug that?

[00:41:25] Robbie Wagner: If it can, then yeah. I don’t, I don’t know that you need humans all that much.

[00:41:31] Chuck Carpenter: Well, you need humans to drive the reasons and the outcomes, and so our jobs change a lot. I think our jobs change a lot, and that’s an interesting thing to train for. I’ve been thinking about this a bunch, even in just like the last six months, I think like. Our jobs have changed a bunch. And

[00:41:50] Chuck Carpenter: so like traditional career ladders and like review cycles feel weird.

[00:41:58] Chuck Carpenter: They feel already [00:42:00] kind of useless. Oh, you write tests and like you don’t write tests, you’re fucking computer writes tests. So like, why are we even talking about that anymore as like a performance evaluation? Like, no, like how do you plan, how do you own outcomes? Like that’s

[00:42:17] Adam Argyle: been talking about taste and vocabulary. Yeah. It’s like what vocabulary do you have? Because you need to be able to talk to these things. You need to be able to listen to humans that say, Hey Chuck, I need you to do some shit. And you need to be able to synthesize that, , translate it into computer talk.

[00:42:30] Adam Argyle: And now we’re not translating it into code. We’re translating it into a plan and some orchestration for multi-agent prompting, it’s a complete change of our role. It’s bizarro, but you need taste and you need, vocabulary. And that’s, I, I tweeted that last week. I was like, holy cow. all of this is boiling down to the words that I know how to say.

[00:42:49] Adam Argyle: CSS is a specialty, is a superpower right now because my vocabulary is doper than yours. So, yo, I’m gonna get better results because I know the words that yield better results than you.

[00:42:59] Adam Argyle: what a [00:43:00] weird thing. It used to be that I was good at coding and now it’s just, I know some words, that you don’t like.

[00:43:04] Chuck Carpenter: Is that you

[00:43:05] Chuck Carpenter: understand the

[00:43:05] Chuck Carpenter: spec better and that gives you something

[00:43:07] Robbie Wagner: yeah, I think

[00:43:09] Adam Argyle: are becoming more important.

[00:43:10] Adam Argyle: Yeah.

[00:43:11] Robbie Wagner: it all comes down to, I think the same thing that we were supposed to be doing as senior plus engineers in the first place is force multiplying the rest of the team. Now, if the rest of the team is AI agents, okay, but like you need to take your knowledge and be able to make it all, like other AI agents and or developers build from your knowledge and make stuff way faster than if you did it all by hand is like the entire point.

[00:43:37] Robbie Wagner: So I think if you can show that you’re doing that, I think that’s how you, you go up a career ladder still.

[00:43:43] Robbie Wagner: Like if

[00:43:43] Chuck Carpenter: Sure that’s how you become mid to senior or something like that. But how do you come out of computer science programs and demonstrate that? And demonstrate that in a way that says, well,

[00:43:55] Robbie Wagner: I mean, how do you get started?

[00:43:57] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.

[00:43:58] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I don’t, getting started is [00:44:00] basically impossible right now. If you’re not already in tech, I would

[00:44:02] Robbie Wagner: not

[00:44:03] Chuck Carpenter: you’re a vibe

[00:44:04] Robbie Wagner: honestly.

[00:44:04] Chuck Carpenter: who gets lucky over time, right? Like you might have computer science fundamentals and you vibe code until you get lucky.

[00:44:12] Chuck Carpenter: I

[00:44:12] Chuck Carpenter: don’t

[00:44:12] Adam Argyle: Hey, there’s a lot of new, new roles opening up for anybody that can vibe code. Like I said, multiple people that I know are now the coder at their company because they vibe code everything. Now everyone else around them doesn’t give a fuck that they vibe code. All they know is that person

[00:44:28] Adam Argyle: A is producing results that they want.

[00:44:30] Adam Argyle: And you know what? That person A saved them. thirty grand this quarter because they didn’t, pay the developers. So like literally you’ve got a

[00:44:39] Adam Argyle: team of people that actually write code and they’re not gonna pay them

[00:44:42] Adam Argyle: anymore in favor of a

[00:44:44] Adam Argyle: vibe

[00:44:44] Adam Argyle: coder.

[00:44:45] Chuck Carpenter: I mean, you know, there’s a ton of security vulnerabilities in this, so maybe that is sort of like the narrowing, I don’t know. They’re like, whatever.

[00:44:54] Chuck Carpenter: And then you’ve

[00:44:54] Robbie Wagner: tools to check for your

[00:44:56] Adam Argyle: always one of those things that’s like, look, if I’m not currently being hacked, I don’t give a fuck about [00:45:00] it, Chuck, because that costs money and I don’t have the money. And once I get, it’s like accessibility, also. Accessibility and security. Like, I don’t need those until someone like wildly about it and then you’re like, oh shit, now I need it.

[00:45:11] Adam Argyle: It’s always,

[00:45:11] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. So there’s your business model. You need to like go and hack a bunch of people, but in a positive way just to show like, oh, I could have and I didn’t, and now you need me. Now I get your 30 grand that you saved.

[00:45:27] Adam Argyle: Well, that was like the SWAT team I was

[00:45:28] Adam Argyle: gonna do too, is a AI SWAT team. We’re like, we’ll come, we will come save you from the AI slop that you generated, but guess what we’re gonna cost twice as much as what?

[00:45:36] Chuck Carpenter: for sure.

[00:45:37] Adam Argyle: cheaply

[00:45:37] Chuck Carpenter: have before. cause now you’re

[00:45:39] Chuck Carpenter: desperate. $300 an hour,

[00:45:42] Adam Argyle: Yep.

[00:45:43] Chuck Carpenter: 10 hour minimum. Motherfuckers,

[00:45:45] Adam Argyle: okay. So that was, that was some AI spicy news, which is people ditching TypeScript, ditching, CMSs, just, just hacking through prompts.

[00:45:53] Adam Argyle: And then you had Disney. Show up and Disney’s like, Hey, everybody else, all the other artists in the world are [00:46:00] freaking out that they don’t want to be copycatted, they don’t want Sora, they don’t want, Ghibli is like out there saying, stop fucking copying Toro, which also Ghibli and Toro are in South Park episodes this season, so you should definitely go check it out.

[00:46:13] Adam Argyle: People are having sex with Toro and they’re really upset, like, stop fucking Toro anyway. but you have Disney. Disney just showed up the other day and they’re like, guess what? We’re giving a billion dollars to, , open AI because we want to fill Sora with more Disney. They were like, look, we are gonna make it easier for you to mimic Mickey Mouse.

[00:46:31] Adam Argyle: Do whatever the fuck

[00:46:32] Chuck Carpenter: I mean, they’re

[00:46:33] Adam Argyle: You know what? It’s free marketing in

[00:46:34] Adam Argyle: this, in this weird social network, like viral

[00:46:37] Adam Argyle: market

[00:46:37] Robbie Wagner: access to like anything you create, they can then just make a show out of it? Like if someone makes something on accident that’s really good,

[00:46:44] Robbie Wagner: like,

[00:46:45] Adam Argyle: Yeah, maybe it goes viral. They’re like,

[00:46:46] Adam Argyle: sweet.

[00:46:47] Chuck Carpenter: princess porn. I mean, it’s over, you know, porn is the first ones.

[00:46:51] Chuck Carpenter: They’re

[00:46:51] Adam Argyle: Well, and that’s what the South Park episode is all about. Yeah.

[00:46:54] Chuck Carpenter: It makes sense.

[00:46:55] Adam Argyle: , And yeah, the cops are super naive to it. They’re just like, oh God, south Park is [00:47:00] so good. It’s like just doing like tiny twists on

[00:47:02] Adam Argyle: uh, stuff. You’ll love it. But Disney Disney’s showing up. Everybody else in the world is like, fuck AI for art and stuff.

[00:47:09] Adam Argyle: And Disney’s like, here’s a billion dollars. We actually wanna lean in.

[00:47:12] Adam Argyle: I’m

[00:47:12] Adam Argyle: like, this is spicy.

[00:47:14] Robbie Wagner: They needed to spend money before the end of the year. It’s okay.

[00:47:17] Chuck Carpenter: There’s

[00:47:18] Adam Argyle: they could give it to us. Hey, we’re taking sponsorships. Disney, we’ll say your name on

[00:47:22] Robbie Wagner: by Disney Plus.

[00:47:23] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Disney plus plu,

[00:47:26] Adam Argyle: Disney

[00:47:27] Adam Argyle: is about to make a new IDE that can prompt and make movies. It’s just a,

[00:47:31] Adam Argyle: sorry I’m making shit up,

[00:47:32] Chuck Carpenter: Holy

[00:47:33] Robbie Wagner: Oh no, they, that sounded plausible.

[00:47:36] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. I mean, I guess there’s sort of, there’s a lean there, right? It’s sort of like everyone is fighting this. We don’t give a shit. You know, once they got sued by Scarlett Johansson, they were like, how do we stop that? Yeah. Okay. We got it.

[00:47:52] Adam Argyle: Yep.

[00:47:53] Robbie Wagner: I mean, Disney’s doing fine. I don’t think Disney will ever be not doing fine.

[00:47:57] Robbie Wagner: I think it’s interesting that, Netflix is trying to [00:48:00] acquire,

[00:48:00] Robbie Wagner: uh,

[00:48:01] Chuck Carpenter: Brothers.

[00:48:02] Adam Argyle: Yeah. Wow.

[00:48:04] Adam Argyle: I hope they do. cause I’ve had stock in them forever and I’m like, yes. Make my B

[00:48:08] Adam Argyle: by second best stock I’ve ever invested in, make it better. Mm-hmm.

[00:48:13] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. How else can we get better? I know, acquire the other superhero universe. I mean, that’s it.

[00:48:19] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm. And Harry Potter and like, like everything that you want. So then they’ll be like, Hey, you know what? Our prices are $135 a month now. And

[00:48:30] Robbie Wagner: people will be

[00:48:31] Robbie Wagner: like

[00:48:31] Robbie Wagner: you know what, I’ve gotta pay it.

[00:48:34] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. They’ve

[00:48:34] Chuck Carpenter: gotta

[00:48:35] Adam Argyle: Google wants $200 a month for latest, gen usage of their models, and they’re like, I don’t know anyone who’s gonna put 200 bucks down

[00:48:42] Adam Argyle: for

[00:48:42] Adam Argyle: ai. But

[00:48:43] Adam Argyle: you do

[00:48:44] Adam Argyle: you

[00:48:44] Robbie Wagner: okay, so this, this comes back to, you know, the spending and the tokens and the never hitting the ceiling. ‘cause like I always hit the ceiling at the $20 a month, , Claude Code.

[00:48:53] Robbie Wagner: So I’m like going along

[00:48:55] Chuck Carpenter: why?

[00:48:55] Robbie Wagner: code. ’

[00:48:56] Robbie Wagner: Why?

[00:48:56] Chuck Carpenter: Povo.

[00:48:58] Robbie Wagner: Yes. Anyway, ,

[00:48:59] Adam Argyle: [00:49:00] inside joke? I don’t get it. It’s over my head.

[00:49:02] Chuck Carpenter: I will share the meme later. Povo. ‘cause you’re Povo ‘cause you’re not rich.

[00:49:07] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:49:07] Adam Argyle: not, yeah.

[00:49:08] Adam Argyle: I don’t know.

[00:49:08] Adam Argyle: Yeah.

[00:49:09] Robbie Wagner: anyway, so I’ll hit that limit and then open code will go waiting for like 150,000 seconds, like come back and I’m like, sweet. So like, then I’m like, well, I’m addicted to this shit, so I’m gonna switch to the one where I pay for it so anyway, all that to say, if you’re paying for each thing and each thing you do is a dollar, $5, whatever, is it worth the $200 a month if you’re doing it a lot?

[00:49:35] Robbie Wagner: I think it is because

[00:49:36] Adam Argyle: It is, it’s annoying. Yeah.

[00:49:38] Robbie Wagner: and if I paid developers to build this shit, I’d pay them like $10,000. So $200 is cheap.

[00:49:45] Adam Argyle: Yeah. I ain’t got, I, I don’t have time these days as a parent. it’s really annoying. I’m being pulled in. I have, I don’t even have time for me. Everything in my life wants attention. AI has enabled me to ship stuff that I wouldn’t have otherwise shipped.

[00:49:57] Adam Argyle: It’s like annoying to even say out loud, but it’s [00:50:00] legit. , I don’t want this water drinking society crushing thing to exist in this world, but at the same time, it is saving me time. And there’s a lot to deal with in terms of AI in that space. that’s why it’s so weird that Disney’s like leaning in and you have other people that are like leaning far out it’s so polarizing.

[00:50:19] Adam Argyle: AI and I also feel like it’s a career. I have to, there is no choice. I have to, and so now I have to stay up to date on ai, which is really hard. Which is also something I hope people are getting out of this show is that US three, we’re staying up to date on ai. It’s hard to stay up to date on ai, maybe us sharing these weird little details and share like how I use it, what’s going on in the industry like this is helping other people.

[00:50:40] Adam Argyle: , Because , you can’t ignore it. This isn’t Web3. This is

[00:50:43] Chuck Carpenter: No. Yeah,

[00:50:45] Adam Argyle: way be, we’re like

[00:50:46] Chuck Carpenter: This isn’t NFTs. This isn’t like fun little dumb, listen to Robbie and lose money situation like this is

[00:50:54] Robbie Wagner: Well, that’s every situation. Anytime I give you

[00:50:57] Chuck Carpenter: gosh. Yeah. And [00:51:00] I can tell you from experience, he’s not lying.

[00:51:02] Robbie Wagner: I make, no, okay. This is how it works. I make all the right investments, but at all the wrong

[00:51:07] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. You’re late.

[00:51:10] Robbie Wagner: or early, and then I sell it, and then it goes up like a ton.

[00:51:13] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, yeah. yeah. Mostly it just doesn’t happen. I have some dumb JPEGs ‘cause of you

[00:51:20] Chuck Carpenter: and I.

[00:51:22] Chuck Carpenter: lost money on some other things ‘cause of you.

[00:51:25] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm. Yep. okay.

[00:51:28] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah,

[00:51:28] Robbie Wagner: We’re doing all right.

[00:51:30] Chuck Carpenter: yeah,

[00:51:30] Adam Argyle: so, you know, it’s not losing is the, the web, the web still is alive. It seems to be still a render target for like, everything. I wonder if that’ll change with ai. Like I’m thi Okay, here’s a, here’s a thought process. Sorry, I’m bringing it back. Damnit. I’ve been, uh, using this app called Artifact on my iPhone.

[00:51:46] Adam Argyle: It’s an iPhone app that makes other iPhone apps through prompt.

[00:51:49] Adam Argyle: I don’t love this app. I don’t have any affinity to this app. Hey, this, , episode is sponsored by artifact. Make apps from

[00:51:55] Adam Argyle: your

[00:51:55] Adam Argyle: iPhone.

[00:51:56] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.

[00:51:56] Adam Argyle: it’s not,

[00:51:57] Adam Argyle: but they could

[00:51:58] Chuck Carpenter: is brought to you by Fourth [00:52:00] Wall Whiskey fm. You can also have

[00:52:04] Robbie Wagner: No whiskey

[00:52:05] Chuck Carpenter: with us.

[00:52:06] Adam Argyle: Would you like 70,000 impressions on your name? Oh, that’s good. , But the idea that it, like, it actually spawned for me, that could be more interesting. Okay. Hang with me. I don’t think it’ll take that long to explain. The web is very cool because you hit a URL and, , it’s just in time. , Problem solving.

[00:52:22] Adam Argyle: Just in time solutioning. Just in time information. Okay. But your, device is not that you have to download apps. The, the apps are all front loaded. You download all these bytes just to access tiny bits of it sometimes. So what if you took the power of the web in terms of its just in time offerings, but made it so that it was native so that you had just in time Native app?

[00:52:43] Adam Argyle: Okay. I know both of you are, building tools for yourself with ai. , There’s times when you’re just like, I have, I need to understand this. So I’m gonna build a small tool just from a throwaway tool. Now imagine your entire operating system was throwaway apps, You don’t need [00:53:00] Google Maps.

[00:53:00] Adam Argyle: Why the fuck would I need Google Maps? I can just, just in time a map for myself. why would I order through Uber Eats when I can just in time build an agent that goes and, orders me some food? So it’s like I’m imagining an entire operating system, an entire lifestyle of just in time tools, just, but not tools at this point.

[00:53:17] Adam Argyle: Just in time apps. So they perform at high quality. They’re made for me. They take all my preferences everywhere I go. It’s all the same shit the web has, but you converge it onto the native operating system for battery savings, speed savings, less time over the network. And you sort of try to front load things as much as you can.

[00:53:35] Adam Argyle: So that, like, is that interesting. Would you go get a new operating system that sort of like, just in timed everything for you? There was no app store based. I’m pro, I’m basically

[00:53:44] Adam Argyle: pitching y’all right now.

[00:53:46] Robbie Wagner: box.

[00:53:47] Adam Argyle: It’s just text boxes. It’s like, I have a problem, here’s my problem.

[00:53:49] Adam Argyle: It’s not like Rabbit where I’m like trying to talk to, you know, my, anyway, I want something that still has a gooey still has, I’m still tapping through. I’m still feeling in control. but I’m not a [00:54:00] slave to the walled garden. which is why the web is so dope, right? There is no walled garden. This is a, a free for all space.

[00:54:06] Adam Argyle: A URL could be

[00:54:07] Chuck Carpenter: since I’ve been stuck

[00:54:08] Chuck Carpenter: by location often, sometimes there’s like apps here I can’t install unless I destroy my entire Apple profile and then create a new one on this region. I’m like, well, I can’t do that just to order a fucking pizza. I just

[00:54:26] Chuck Carpenter: wanna order a pizza. No.

[00:54:28] Robbie Wagner: Can’t you just open your window and go, Hey, I want a pizza.

[00:54:31] Chuck Carpenter: Uh. Una pizza.

[00:54:36] Chuck Carpenter: Hmm.

[00:54:36] Adam Argyle: gotta work on that. Yeah. You’re telling’s not that great dude,

[00:54:39] Adam Argyle: I

[00:54:39] Adam Argyle: gotta say,

[00:54:39] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. No. Did you know

[00:54:44] Chuck Carpenter: that, uh, you

[00:54:45] Chuck Carpenter: have LA Pizza and LE Pizza,

[00:54:48] Robbie Wagner: Is that

[00:54:48] Chuck Carpenter: that means multiple pizzas, or is Le Pizza

[00:54:53] Robbie Wagner: it’s like cappuccino and

[00:54:54] Adam Argyle: yeah. So does Italy have the same thing where everything has a male or a female?

[00:54:59] Adam Argyle: [00:55:00] Um, okay, so then when you said la so it’s a, a pizza is female.

[00:55:04] Adam Argyle: At least in French. Aah. A law

[00:55:06] Adam Argyle: something would mean it’s a feminine,

[00:55:08] Robbie Wagner: Which never made sense. Like,

[00:55:10] Adam Argyle: No. And so they gotta

[00:55:12] Adam Argyle: be all confused. It’s like that does not scale over time.

[00:55:14] Adam Argyle: That worked really good in the 18 hundreds or whatever writers like,

[00:55:17] Adam Argyle: but it’s not scaling to now.

[00:55:18] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, it doesn’t scale. And also when things become plural, it becomes weird. So you can be like, me, LA Pizza, and then you’re like, me.

[00:55:31] Adam Argyle: Ooh, that’s even harder than French

[00:55:34] Chuck Carpenter: Oh my God. Yeah, because I learned French, actually, I, I took French, , from fourth grade to like 10th grade and then a little in college,

[00:55:44] Adam Argyle: Robbie too. You’re nodding your head like you

[00:55:45] Adam Argyle: took

[00:55:45] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Jenna Par Patran. Say it though.

[00:55:48] Adam Argyle: Okay. So he doesn’t speak French. Okay. Uh, what do you remember, Chuck? What? What you got?

[00:55:52] Chuck Carpenter: I mean, I understood that he doesn’t speak French, so, , yeah. Uh, there’s all kinds of things and they’re like, [00:56:00] oh, I sleep and then like dorm, dorm, mire, and I’m like, oh, dorm, dorm. That’s like same as French. There’s some overlaps, but I don’t know.

[00:56:12] Chuck Carpenter: Not

[00:56:12] Chuck Carpenter: that much. I’m 804.

[00:56:14] Robbie Wagner: yeah, all the Latin based stuff is like, you can figure it out given enough time. Like if there’s a sign and I’m trying to figure out what this sign means, just gimme 25 minutes and I’ll tell you. But like,

[00:56:25] Chuck Carpenter: yeah,

[00:56:25] Chuck Carpenter: It, in Italian, they, they say every letter. So like in French you can kind of like

[00:56:33] Robbie Wagner: yeah. you

[00:56:34] Robbie Wagner: skip the last like five letters

[00:56:35] Robbie Wagner: in French. Yeah,

[00:56:36] Chuck Carpenter: They say them all in format. Informatica, that is our job. That’s what we do. Informatica.

[00:56:44] Robbie Wagner: yeah. They have to say them all so that you can get all of the vowels. There has to be more vowels like it feels like they just took French or Spanish, and were like, you know what? It needs like way more vowels

[00:56:56] Chuck Carpenter: So, yeah, Italian is based on [00:57:00] Entine dialect. So Florence was like the centralized language chosen because it had more vowels and sounded more, more like sing songy.

[00:57:12] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, it does sound nice.

[00:57:14] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, I’m bad at Italian. Adam,

[00:57:17] Adam Argyle: good. You’ll get there. You’ll get there. Dude. Your kids are gonna be way better than you. You’ll just be the old man

[00:57:22] Adam Argyle: yelling at the cloud, uh, and bad

[00:57:24] Chuck Carpenter: my apartment. I’m gonna get a nicer one though.

[00:57:28] Chuck Carpenter: A nicer apartment to not

[00:57:30] Chuck Carpenter: leave. Yeah. that’s my plan.

[00:57:32] Robbie Wagner: If you never leave your apartment, why does it matter what country you’re in?

[00:57:35] Chuck Carpenter: Hmm, good question. ‘cause the groceries that come in are nicer.

[00:57:41] Chuck Carpenter: They’re good. Yeah.

[00:57:43] Robbie Wagner: The is the first ingredient, not palm oil in everything you get from the store.

[00:57:48] Chuck Carpenter: New. It

[00:57:50] Adam Argyle: Oh man. Did you, did you hear the comparison that I came back from Japan and was like, , Japan eats the web platform and the primitives, you know, like they’re eating H-M-L-C-S and JavaScript and [00:58:00] in America we eat react apps all day. We just eat some bashed up, smashed up, ground up full of preservatives, jam packed, which shit we didn’t ask for, turned into some monstrosity of food.

[00:58:12] Adam Argyle: And then we eat it and we say, thank you very much,

[00:58:15] Chuck Carpenter: I mean, that

[00:58:15] Robbie Wagner: episode is sponsored by Taco Bell.

[00:58:18] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. We don’t have Taco Bell here,

[00:58:22] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:58:22] Adam Argyle: dude. You’re not missing

[00:58:23] Adam Argyle: out

[00:58:23] Chuck Carpenter: good or bad. I did see on a delivery app that I could order KFC, and I’m

[00:58:30] Chuck Carpenter: kind

[00:58:30] Adam Argyle: I was just,

[00:58:32] Chuck Carpenter: I’m a little

[00:58:32] Chuck Carpenter: scared.

[00:58:33] Adam Argyle: that’s why I said that, dude, there’s so many people are in Europe and they’re like, you visit and they’re like, let me take you to this really yummy spot. And you’re like, oh, hell’s yeah, let’s go local. Let me

[00:58:41] Adam Argyle: have something that’s like unique and they go to KFC and you’re like, son of a bitch, man.

[00:58:45] Adam Argyle: I have this at home. And it sucks. Like, why are

[00:58:47] Adam Argyle: you

[00:58:47] Adam Argyle: eating this

[00:58:48] Adam Argyle: over

[00:58:48] Robbie Wagner: the worst of all the fried

[00:58:50] Robbie Wagner: chicken

[00:58:51] Adam Argyle: it’s dripping with grease. Oh my

[00:58:53] Robbie Wagner: hot take.

[00:58:54] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah, it is. You’re not wrong. Like Korean fried chicken, like legit

[00:58:59] Robbie Wagner: so good. [00:59:00]

[00:59:00] Robbie Wagner: Bonine is the

[00:59:01] Chuck Carpenter: Bonton is the best. No doubt.

[00:59:04] Chuck Carpenter: No

[00:59:04] Robbie Wagner: Yep. And you only shit yourself for like three days

[00:59:07] Robbie Wagner: afterwards?

[00:59:08] Chuck Carpenter: the spice that has nothing to do

[00:59:10] Chuck Carpenter: with the frying method.

[00:59:11] Adam Argyle: that

[00:59:12] Adam Argyle: too.

[00:59:12] Adam Argyle: Chipotle away,

[00:59:13] Chuck Carpenter: if you get the soy ginger, that doesn’t happen. Robbie, you just

[00:59:17] Chuck Carpenter: choose

[00:59:18] Robbie Wagner: like, uh, I don’t even know what it’s called, but I like the spicy and sweet one. I forget what they call it,

[00:59:23] Robbie Wagner: but,

[00:59:23] Chuck Carpenter: know, I agree. The spicy one is the most delicious, but if you don’t get it, you don’t shit your pants.

[00:59:30] Robbie Wagner: Hmm. Well worth, worth. I’m not old enough that I care yet.

[00:59:35] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, same. Same, even me now, I would come back and be like, worth it wearing a diaper. Don’t care.

[00:59:42] Robbie Wagner: Oh man. Yeah, that just reminds me, I was watching, Bob’s Burgers and they’re like, I don’t know, I don’t need to do the whole quote, but like, the dad, Bob is like, oh, I’m the same age as this guy. And his daughter’s like, wait, they’re 89. [01:00:00] Oh

[01:00:00] Robbie Wagner: God.

[01:00:00] Adam Argyle: man, it’s weird having seven and 9-year-old. Oh, are we at time? Yeah,

[01:00:03] Robbie Wagner: We are at time. Yeah, we are. Over

[01:00:05] Robbie Wagner: time.

[01:00:06] Adam Argyle: Can I go out with a song? I wanna try and play a Christmas

[01:00:08] Adam Argyle: song.

[01:00:08] Chuck Carpenter: go

[01:00:09] Chuck Carpenter: ahead.

[01:00:09] Robbie Wagner: it.

[01:00:10] Chuck Carpenter: So this is Christmas

[01:00:13] Adam Argyle: hoping it even like,

[01:00:14] Adam Argyle: picks

[01:00:14] Chuck Carpenter: war is

[01:00:15] Adam Argyle: know if it’s not, and we’ll just cut it out.

[01:00:17] Adam Argyle: Um,

[01:00:18] Chuck Carpenter: over, so I

[01:00:20] Adam Argyle: I don’t, I also don’t play in this standing position, so it’s gonna be a little weird.

[01:00:22] Adam Argyle: You can try to talk over it though. Yeah, go

[01:00:24] Adam Argyle: ahead.

[01:00:24] Chuck Carpenter: No,

[01:00:25] Adam Argyle: Uh, that’s, uh, Zelda, that’s not what I want.

[01:00:27] Adam Argyle: Uh,

[01:00:28] Chuck Carpenter: know. I want that.

[01:00:29] Adam Argyle: uh. You do? Okay. Here, we’ll do jingle bells.

[01:00:31] Adam Argyle: Oh shit.

[01:00:48] Adam Argyle: You waiting,

[01:00:57] Adam Argyle: I’m messing up. It’s all good.

[01:00:59] Chuck Carpenter: No one [01:01:00] knows.

[01:01:07] Adam Argyle: How about super fast? Ready?

[01:01:12] Robbie Wagner: Oh,

[01:01:14] Chuck Carpenter: These are expelling a lot of energy right now.

[01:01:23] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, I gave Robbie a banjo. I’ve never heard one banjo

[01:01:29] Robbie Wagner: have not played it. I don’t even play my guitars. I don’t have time for that shit.

[01:01:33] Adam Argyle: Oh man, I steal it. I steal time for instrument time. I, it’s not given to me. I don’t have time to do anything for me in this entire world for this has been anyway. I’m like, I set about it. This, this is time, but I’ve like calendarize my time and it’s

[01:01:47] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. You can, yeah. You can

[01:01:50] Chuck Carpenter: categorize this as work. I don’t know how guitar works on that, but

[01:01:56] Robbie Wagner: I get my guitar off the wall and I play one chord and like [01:02:00] my son somehow notices from like upstairs and goes, hi, can I take that? And I’m like, sure.

[01:02:07] Chuck Carpenter: uh the problem is, is you don’t like brush your hair over your eye a little bit.

[01:02:13] Robbie Wagner: Well, it’s, it’s growing out. I’m

[01:02:15] Adam Argyle: He’s getting

[01:02:15] Adam Argyle: there. Yeah,

[01:02:16] Adam Argyle: he’s getting there, dude.

[01:02:17] Chuck Carpenter: to his like emo days.

[01:02:20] Robbie Wagner: I was doing the slick back hair for like five plus years, so

[01:02:24] Adam Argyle: Oh, we did. We look up Garth Brooks Emo. Have you seen Garth

[01:02:26] Adam Argyle: Brooks

[01:02:27] Adam Argyle: who turned emo in his whole

[01:02:28] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know, but my band had a song called Garth Brooks for no reason. So

[01:02:33] Chuck Carpenter: Wow.

[01:02:34] Adam Argyle: Oh man. He totally went emo dyed

[01:02:36] Adam Argyle: his

[01:02:36] Adam Argyle: hair dark, had It

[01:02:37] Adam Argyle: over his eye.

[01:02:38] Chuck Carpenter: his name was. Chris

[01:02:39] Chuck Carpenter: something. Yeah,

[01:02:41] Chuck Carpenter: No, that’s a

[01:02:44] Robbie Wagner: he had

[01:02:44] Chuck Carpenter: you. No. Yeah, but

[01:02:47] Adam Argyle: sure. You’re my angel. You’re my darling Angel.

[01:02:51] Robbie Wagner: This has gone downhill. We should

[01:02:53] Robbie Wagner: have this episode. Bye.

[01:02:57] Chuck Carpenter: Okay, my.

[01:02:59] Outro: [01:03:00] You’ve been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Recorded in front of a live studio audience. What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck? Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know, people don’t pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fund for merchant to join our Discord server. I’m serious, it’s like 2% of people who actually click these links. And don’t forget to leave us a five star review and tell your friends about the show. All right, dude, I’m outta here. Still got it.