RobbieTheWagner 
Adam Argyle In today's modern technological world, developers face many difficult questions. Artificial intelligence, autonomous agents, JavaScript frameworks, even CSS. With so much happening so quickly, how can a developer possibly keep up? Simple. Just listen to the world's most important AI podcast. Two experts, countless opinions, zero hesitation. The Internet is complicated. These men are not. Each week, they review the latest developments in artificial intelligence and modern web development. This is Whiskey, Web & Whatnot, the world's most important AI podcast. Whiskey, Web & Whatnot is brought to you by...
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All right, back to the show. In today's episode, we got topics like, oh my God, Robby killed OpenClaw, you bastard! G-Stack and the rise of Markdown for money. TanStack and more get pwned. Gastown robs users, so rude. Elon lost to OpenAI. Apple loses to Mythos. Years of work, it's just tokens now. Loop and factory engineering concepts for agentic workflows. Why you should stop cussing at your agents. Some new Claude features that we're enjoying. Robby's twins turned one. Caveman versus JSON. JSON. How to recognize AGI, building your own LLM harness, sub-Q, the first model built on sub-quadratic sparse attention architecture.
Say that 10 times fast, everybody. And shifting from models that answer to agents that act and maybe even click your screen. And plus, I found a gray ear hair, and now I'm depressed. Stick around to share a dram with us, because we've got compass box crimson casks. This is episode 252. Nice. What's up, everybody? Amazing intro by Adam, as always. This is Whiskey Web and whatnot, if you weren't aware. And yeah, we've got a new intro like that. We have a new, they're both called intros, but the one that's like programmatically insert or not programmatically inserted, but like the cartoony though, there's a new intro there.
So you'll see a couple new intros. Let us know what you think about both of those. Yay. Well, I don't think there's any names. It's actually not, but... No, nobody's name's in it. That makes it better for when we're all replaced with AI one day. It can just be whoever's talking. But, yeah. So, got a lot of stuff that we have to talk about. It's been a while. The last ones were all React Miami ones. They're not out yet. I'm going to release them all, like... uh sooner than like not every week so we're gonna probably do two or three a week for the next couple weeks until we get back to like i want us to be closer to when news is happening so that when you hear you're not like wow i heard that two months ago that's so interesting yeah yeah
So that's our plan. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, as always, feel free to let us know if you do like this format, if you like what we're doing, if you prefer it to be, you know, maybe you care more about the whiskey. Maybe you want us to talk about this in the beginning again, which we're not doing right now. Maybe you care more about CSS, and we're not talking about that enough. I'm sure Adam would, you could twist his arm to talk about more CSS. Oh, man, I did something cool this week in CSS. Yep. Ooh, dark. I believe in a thing called love. Just the spirit of my heart. That's falsetto, dude.
Damn. Something new about Robbie just now. It's just sat on attack. Holy cow, that's sweet. My goodness. Wow, that has a lot going on. Guess I can't talk about it. Damn it. All right, well... What is... Oh, you built a playground. Let's start with some whatnot. Yeah, yeah. So I figured since we haven't hung out in a few weeks now, just life updates if you have anything to share. So, yeah, we twins turned one. Their birthday was a couple weeks ago. So they're... You know, just growing up super fast. So we were like, hey, we need to put in a playground. This is like the grandparents can help us buy this gift for their birthday.
And so Caitlin was like, I'll build it. And we're like, all right. And so first we started with digging the hole, right? So we're like, we're trying to dig this hole, put in some gravel. I hate digging holes. Yeah. And it's like, how hard could it be? It's a hole, right? No, it's super hard. I hate it. Yeah. So we, uh, we had a guy, we had a 19 year old kid that my dad, uh, has been helped having help him do landscaping and stuff. He was like, you know, he's strong, young, he can do it. He like, he did like a quarter of it. He was like, I'm done. So we hired some landscapers to do it. They sent like six guys over and they did it in like, you know, a couple hours.
So it was kind of embarrassing, but that's done. And then Caitlin has been building the actual thing for a long time now, like maybe like a week, you know, in all of our free time every day. And it's like 95% done. So it should be done in the next couple of days, I would say. All this to say, if you're looking at buying a playground from Costco and you think, huh, I can get a playground for $1,500. No, you can't. Like, you've got to pay for all of the hole that you're going to put it in. You've got to put it together. So if you're not going to put it together, you're paying probably at least $1,000 for someone to put that together for you.
Like, those costs add up. So, yeah, don't be drawn in. Think about it more beforehand. Hot tip right there. Man, we got a trampoline when our kids were old enough, and that has been a superb purchase. They trashed it. It's very destroyed now, but it's been over five years. Did you do the hole in the ground for that? So it's like if you fall off, you're not going high? No, I don't dig holes, man. No, our kids can fly off. It's actually, we're the one in the neighborhood where the other parents go, Oh! You're going to go to jump on their trampoline, huh? They don't have the net. And we're like, it's the 90s over here on our trampoline.
No one's even flown off yet or anything. But yeah, everyone always looks at it like, oh, you took the net down. And we're like, no, it got destroyed by children who used it like it was a ring that they could wrestle in. Like they would literally, it was classic. You put up these boundaries for the kids and they just bounce off of them. They're like, those must be super safe. We're actually like, no, it's kind of garbage. They're like garbage nets and they're just like sweet. And they just ripped them down and they did everything. So then they were gone and we were like, I'm not putting that back up.
And now the trampoline feels bigger. I hated the net. I get on the tramp all the time. I mean, I, so we used to go to my friend's house. I never had a trampoline, but my friend like one street down had one and we would go there all the time. We would do stuff like duct tape, a skateboard with no wheels on it to your feet and jump around with it. Snowboard style too. Yeah. Yeah. And like stuff that you could get very injured on. None of us ever got, you know, that majorly injured, but. Like you have to know your kids. They have to know how to be safe enough and it's probably fine. Like accidents can still happen, of course.
But, you know, I think we've gotten too safe these days. That's kind of where we're at. We're feeling a little too safe. I had one growing up and there were injuries. They were never severe, but they taught you good lessons. You know, anyway. The stairs up to our house are basically more dangerous than our trampoline. So I don't know, everybody. Figure out how you want to live your life. It's just a bunch of cement stairs. But it's like everyone looks at our house, they're like... Oh, man, just to walk in their front door, there's like 20 steps. And we're like, really? Okay, I guess. But some of them are jagged.
You know, ho. Does the delivery person love walking up there? No, especially if it's like a big package. You can see them. Or some of the dudes are like, challenge accepted. You can see them throw it over their shoulder like, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. Just go up each stair. It's like all good. Nice. It's a good challenge of someone's persona. We're like, hmm, what kind of person are they? Are they a wuss or are they rad? Well, no, by the way they approach our stairs. Nice. When your kids turned one, did they give a crap about the cake or not? Because sometimes kids are like, oh, look, sugary. What is sugar?
We don't know yet. We're just untrained sugar monsters. We just don't know. And they touch it and they go, ew, it's weird. Sorry. And then other kids are like, sugar, hell yeah, my mom never gives me this and I had it once. You know, like, yeah, what do your kids do? So we didn't make a, like, legit cake for them because we're trying to not get, so we have a big problem with our four-year-old eating anything at all. So we're trying to be the complete opposite of that with the twins and, like... no sugar, nothing fun, like, you're gonna eat what we eat pretty much or that's like, you don't have another choice.
So that's what we're trying. And so we gave them like a, I think it was like a banana oat something cake with like a yogurt icing or something. Like it wasn't super sweet. Yeah. Sounds right. Yeah. They love just destroying it and throwing it everywhere. They didn't eat like much of it at all. That's all that matters. Hey, did they have fun? And yeah, the destruction of it is just as cool. Yeah, put it on your face. It makes a good picture. Yeah. You know? Yeah. We took them to Olive Garden yesterday and got them mashed potatoes and ravioli. And it was like just the most explosion of food I've ever seen like out at a restaurant.
I was like, oh, my God, this is I don't love this. Yeah, we had our friends over for like a little jam and dinner thing the other night and they have a kid that's not even one and then their other kid who's like two or three now. He's wild. But they put their kid like on our on our table on a chair. And then there was just rice everywhere. We're like, it's all good. We had kids before this table will survive. Yeah. Yeah, you can always clean up the messes, but it is annoying, especially like out in a restaurant, I feel like. Because I'm like, oh, I feel bad for like, I'm not going to super clean that up and then someone's got to clean that up.
So like, I don't know. Yeah, I always did the same thing. I always look under the table. I make sure I grab all our stuff. I try to make a nice little pile. But yeah, when you have like little, little kids, some of it's like, ah, your ground is really gross and sticky. And I'm not grabbing that stuff down there. So you can just grab a dust broom. I'm so sorry. Here's an extra $2, you know, I don't know. All right. Our family went. Oh, yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say, before we get into any technical stuff, I need to hear the story behind the black eye. Oh, yeah, dude. And it's looking way better now.
And I'm at like two weeks of this thing, maybe more. It was OK. So we're in Miami. I like to get a tattoo when I travel. And so I stop in at a I just walk in. And if the walk in doesn't happen, I'm like, it wasn't meant to be, you know, but I walk in and they're all sitting around there, like sitting on their thumbs. I'm like, perfect. They look ready to give a tattoo. Yeah. And they were. And so I was like, skull. They were like, okay, here's a skull. And I was like, great, I'll take it. And so they're doing the skull tattoo. It wasn't exactly that, but I'm not a beggar when I walk in at these points.
I'm just like, I just need a memory. Like, whatever you give me, as long as it's not, like, phallic and makes me feel bad, then, you know, like, give me a combo that's kind of cool. Anyway, so skulls are cool. Getting the tattoo, he's also a piercer. And I'm like... Man, I've always wanted to pierce my eyebrow. I've thought about it like three times in the past year. I'm 40. So maybe it's a thing. You know, I'm just like feeling old and I want some of that youth. I don't actually think that is it. But I don't know. Maybe I'm not conscious enough to recognize that about myself. You tell me, everybody.
So anyway, I text my spouse and I'm like, hey, should I get my eyebrow pierced while I'm here? And she says, yep. And so then I was like, the tattoo's over. I'm like, cool, man, give me a piercing. And he goes, boop, pokes my, you know, my eyebrow and I walk away. The piercing has been healing awesome. And I got a big, fat black eye. And I've had it for days. This is chill. It was, I'm talking like a big black eye. Black. Like cherry, something like a strawberry right now. Yeah, it's not bad now, yeah. It's not bad now. Oh, dude. So we went to Hawaii last week. That's what I was going to share.
So I guess this is a good segue. We go to we get on a plane and everywhere I'm going, you know, I'm just a black eyed guy. I'm just like, oh, what happened? I'm like, I gotta have a cool story because my story is just like I pierced my eyebrow and all the blood fell on my eye. I don't know. I have a black eye from piercing. I don't know if that's normal or not. uh the only joke i came up with was uh i didn't get a beer for my wife fast enough at the football game so she punched me and everyone's like is that supposed to be funny that your wife beats you because i know people who their spouses beat them so it's really uncool for that joke to come out your mouth or whatever and i'm like oh man isn't it funny to role reversal the punch okay i not um bad joke my bad
So that's the story. The eye was, yeah, I didn't realize they were related. I thought like, you know, perhaps it got hit on something like you weren't used to it being there. I don't know. But it was just from the piercing that happened. Okay. It's just from the piercing. Yeah. And it wasn't even painful. He was swift and everything's been fine except for the amount of pooled blood above my eye. So hopefully that's gone soon. I'm feeling like it's drifting away pretty quickly. Oh man, have you been to Hawaii before? This was pretty much my first time not going to. Okay. It was really cool. We had a great time.
Really good family outing. We went to Kauai because I wanted to go somewhere. I've been to Hawaii before. It was about 15 or 17 years ago. I went to Honolulu and I remember being there and I'm like, this place is just a big mall. I was like, I came to Hawaii to go to beaches and do a hike and kind of feel like I wasn't in a city in the States. And dang, if I'm not feeling like I'm just at it, it's like there's like Nordstrom. I'm like, I don't want to see a Nordstrom when I go to Hawaii, that sucks. People there want to have a Nordstrom. No, they don't, dude. They're totally like everyone here is an invader.
Yeah, you can totally see it on their face that we're all just it's like 80 percent tourists. And so their whole day is just dealing with tourism. And it looks like so quiet was the same. And that's kind of what my weird little takeaway was, is as much as I loved it, we did a lot of cool hikes. We saw a lot of cool stuff. It felt like I was at Disneyland. Yeah. But you know at Disneyland when you walk around and you go to like the Avatar exhibit or the Avatar area and you're like, whoa, it's all jungly and shit. And then you get close to it. You're like, that rock is really fucking fake looking.
Oh, my goodness. That's not even a real plan. How did I get so faked out for a second about that, you know? And in Hawaii, you're like... Whoa, I'm in the jungle. And then you get closer, like, hey, that's all real. There's like a real gecko right there. And so it's kind of cool that way. But when you look right just a little bit more, there's basically a concession stand. It's like popcorn, Hawaii hats, like everywhere you go. It's like... They'll sell you something because you're just a tourist walking through the space. And so we had we got out of the. Yeah. I feel like that's the case anywhere that is like known enough for other people to want to go to.
They have. Yeah. Yeah. touristy like something to sell you stuff there and it's like like we um you know italy is super touristy now and like not that it wasn't always but like when we went before it didn't feel as bad and like the last time we went it was like you're not hearing anyone ever even speak italian like every single person is speaking english and like It's super crowded everywhere. And it's, I mean, I think like it's hard to preserve your culture and like turn all those people away because they're bringing money to your area. So it's like you can't just turn it off because that's bad for, you know, half of the people too because they make their living off of that.
But I can definitely sympathize with like the people that are like, get out of here. This is my town. Number three moneymaker in Kauai is tourism. And so, yeah, they don't turn it away. It's basically everybody's livelihood unless you're a construction worker, of which point you're building buildings for more tourism. Yeah, and at which point you're probably making insane money because, so I watched a few of the, like, renovation aloha shows or whatever, and it's like they have to ship in everything because it's an island, right? Yeah, yeah. You're like, I like that tile. They're like, cool, you can have it in six months and it's going to cost 10 times what it costs on the mainland.
And they're like, oh God. And so then it shows up. And if like half of them are broken, you're like, what do you do? We're going to wait six more months or like, So yeah, it's like everything's so expensive and it's like, yeah, it makes renovating a house like insane there. Yep, super expensive. The land was super expensive. Of course, some tech butthole like owned a humongous, the AOL guy owned a huge chunk of it. He preserved it. And so they appreciate him for that. Like, yeah, he showed up, he bought it for really cheap. Really cheap. It's like, uncool how cheap. However, he preserved it. So at least it's not all cement, like where you all came from.
So that could have been worse. But yeah, we intertubed down a old, like, talk about digging holes. This was like a spot that they all dug water reservoirs from the mountain to bring water down into the space. So they carved through rock and mountains and you could just see all the pickaxe marks and, That was cool. My kids had a great time. My secret was I wanted to try local whiskey, of course, naturally, Whiskey Web and whatnot. I found three to try. And then whenever I bought a whiskey at the resort or just like the hotel where we stayed or whatever, it was $25 for a single. And the selection was just whack.
So I went down the street, found Hi Rye. Oh, that's what I got. I got a high rye for $35. And it was delicious. Delicious high rye for $10 more than one. I got an entire bottle that lasted me all week. And then I got to try little ones that I would buy that were local. And the local ones weren't very good. I was a little more hopeful. But they were all just young. One of them even taught me a new word because it tasted like the husk of the corn. And apparently that, oh man, what is that word? It's like plant, plant. plantate it's not plantation but there's a word that has plant in it and it means it tastes very grassy like and it just means it just means it's super young and i remember having it i was like oh i don't think i'm gonna drink more of that i was like that's really not good okay and logging that in my open claw app some garbage don't drink that again
Yeah, I've been doing whiskey tastings with people at my house trying to get rid of some of this whiskey because I have hundreds of bottles. And so I'm like, here's four. Like, not even I'm not picking bad ones. Right. I'm just like, they're fine. You know, whichever one's your favorite, you can take home with you. Everybody tries them and they're like, I'm good. Like, okay. But one of them was a Jimmy Red corn one from, I think it's like high wire distilling or something. And it's a cool story. I thought it was cool. I didn't remember how it tasted. I was just like, oh, this is made from a corn that like almost went extinct.
They had like a couple of years left. They brought it back. Like, it's a cool story. But it was only aged for two years. So it was like pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's the thing is like a lot of people try to hit that two-year threshold, which I think allows you to call it bourbon. And then they're like, it's bourbon. And it's like, is it though? Like it doesn't taste very good. Yeah. That's like literally what I had. And I just looked up the word. It's vegetal or earthy or corny or grassy. But vegetal is the one that I was like, oh, man. And it was just straight on. They're like, if it tastes like corn husks, it's this.
And it's just young, young. bourbon and yeah I did not love that at all yeah it's more like chewing on the piece of wood instead of it uh aging in the wood yeah which I like my earthy flavors like that's and you'll hear me continue to claim that that's what I want but these were not good um and just like the boozy youth too you know it's like and so then I come home and I get a 10-year Ardbeg um because I really liked Wee Beastie and I was like how does how does more Ardbeg compare against Lagavulin But anyway, now we're getting a whiskey. But yeah, it's been really good. The Ardbeg Tenure is super yummy.
It's like half the price of Lagavulin. And it gives me a lot of the same really yummy smoky sensations. I love it. Yeah. We need to do another Multnomah Whiskey Library episode and get to Portland and do that sometime and try a bunch of whiskeys. That'll be fun. I'm super down. It's so hard to, like, have a bunch of different things. Like, it'd be cool to have, like, the same brand, but, like, four different, like, different ears, different expressions a little bit, like, just to compare. Anyway, we're not supposed to talk about whiskey. So, Claus, you're dead. You're dead to me. Yeah. How'd you kill Klaus?
Dude, he's been working hard for us for months now. What happened? Okay, so I got an email from Moonshot, I guess, is the company that does Kimmy. Whatever. I don't know. I only use it for this, so I'm like completely uneducated, but Kimmy K2 or whatever is what we were using. Yeah. And then I think the more recent one is K2.5 and then K2.6 is the newest. And they emailed everyone, I think, still using two. And they were like, hey, you can't use two anymore. It's going to be deprecated like next month. And I was like, all right, Klaus has got it. I was like, yo, Klaus, change yourself to Kimmy 2.6.
It was like, done, changed. I think it even still worked after that a little bit. And so then today I was like, hey, I have been, you know, not publishing episodes because we're working on getting all our editing and intros and stuff right. I'm ready for one. Here's like, give me the art. And it's like 400 error tokenization failed or something. And I was like, huh, that sounds bad. So I like log, I SSH into the. Fix yourself. Yeah. I said, hey, are you broken? It said 400 errors. I said, damn it, okay. So I went SSH in, and I'm like, open claw doctor. And it's like, dope. I'm going to fix myself.
Let's do it. It's like, do you want to update from Git first? And I was like, yeah. And it's like, ooh, but Git is not clean. So I can't do anything. And I was like, okay, Git commit dash M work, please. And it... Goes to commit, does a bunch of pre-commit shit and like gets like blows itself away somewhere. And like it's running some Mac OS thing, which I'm not even on Mac OS because I'm SSH into a railway machine. I don't know what you're doing. So I was like, hey, no verify. Skip the pre-commit hooks. So we did. We committed it. Good. I was like, all right. update it goes oh i can't do it like i'm i tried and it's uh every like everything it tried to connect to was erroring in different ways so i think it's just like all the apis changed and like stuff doesn't work and i don't know i think it's unrecoverable so i'm just like okay at this point
It's either just so I pulled down the skills folder. I don't know if any of it we actually want to keep because I realized when I was get committing, there's like six of like the same thing and they're all wrong. It's like, oh, that explains the confusion. It's like, oh, yeah, this skill generates episode art and posts it to Postbridge. And I'm like, that's something we would never do. That's like post bridges for clips and episode artists for me to have to publish the episode. So like those, those things are not the same. Um, and so that's, yeah, I think that's why it has such a hard time every time.
And I'm like, you're an idiot. And that's, yeah, I should have gone and looked at the skills folder earlier. But anyway, I backed up what we have. Maybe some of it's usable. I'm either going to delete it all and then just new open claw, or is it time to try Hermes or something else? I don't know. Excellent. Oh, I mean, also, that sucks. It's like a horror movie scenario right now. Like, if I lost my open claw setup, I would be super devastated. It's also making me appreciate how simple mine is and how abstract and decoupled I am. Like, I'm not an open claw. at all. All I am is a Discord chats to bun, bun forwards to Claude.
Like, I have two contact points, and then a whole bunch of get-backed data. In fact, dude, I set up, I'm just gonna toot my own horn right now. Honk, honk. I set up. Every night, it does git commits for whatever change. Like, all the things, dude, I have multiple factories right now. I hope we have enough time to get to my factories. I've been enjoying... Making factories anyway so like my factories are making stuff I'm continually modifying all these different recurring processes that are happening through git so they're all like even all the little projects that I have like my whiskey database to git project my beer list that I manage.
Oh, I even started a birthday tracker. Oh, wait, I already had the birthday tracker, but now I have a birthday gift factory that when a birthday is upcoming, it starts to build a background on who the person is through a questionnaire system. So I get a question a day that's like, hey, did they like baskets? And I'm like, no, baskets are a terrible idea. That's really bad, you know? And so it goes, great. I'll never suggest a basket again. And you're like, that was a stupid ass idea in the beginning, but you know, whatever. Yeah. But hey, I'm like building this corpus of information about people, especially like what I've previously given them, you know, and it's like, hey, this is a anyway, whatever I would do.
I would be devastated right now if if my whole entire system went down. I don't know if I would pick Hermes or Hermes. If you want to sound fancy. I've also heard people doing Hermes. Get over here, Hermes. Yeah. But I've heard people running boats where they do claw and Hermes. Oh, God, this is so frustrating. Such a nasty word, too. I think it's Hermes. No one wants Hermes. I think it's Hermes unless you're French or whatever Hermes is. It's like... That's a really fancy perfume my mom sells at Nordstrom. It's a fancy brand in general. It's the Apple Watch fancy brand and like handbags. It's just like a luxury brand in general.
But yeah, so this makes me think about like, I think it was GTA 4. I can't remember because I think 5 I was like... and adult when I was playing um I was like hey I have an xbox I'm playing gta 4 I love this game I put in like 20 hours this is sick I like playing this all right cool I'm gonna take my xbox and go to my grandparents house all right I plugged it into their old shitty tv I'm still gonna play this is this is sick cool I did a new mission um and then like wait what happened all my saved data got overwritten because my xbox reset itself to like you know 2004 because it doesn't know they don't have internet so it doesn't know what the date is and like all my saved data was overwritten i was like never play this game again done never played it again
Dude, that happened on PlayStation. Do you remember PlayStation had the memory cards that you put into the system? You put them into the system, right? Yeah, you pushed them in. It was like a, yeah, it was a card. And they would mess up all the time. And so then I was playing games like Final Fantasy VII, four discs, four discs. Four disc game. Multiple times. I'm on, like, disc three, and it goes, can't recover your save. And I'm like, get out of here. I'm 30 hours in. I'm kicking ass. Cloud is pimped out. I grinded his, you know, and it'd be like, that is dead. So then I developed these, like, weird ticks.
where I would like save three times, save, and then save. So my memory cards, and then I'd be like, actually, do two memory cards. I'm like, three saves is no good. That happened to me once already. It blew away all three. I need to do save on memory card one, memory card two slot, put it in, save it, take it out. You've got the raid set up and it like syncs it. Yeah. Oh, man, I'd be like, I'd put it in my pocket, I'd be like, it's not going to corrupt now. It's in my fuzzy sweatpants, you know? There's no way it's going to break now. Oh, man. Yeah, like, I don't think, yeah, I don't think there's any time in my life, even when I had a lot of free time, that I was willing to go, like, I love this game enough that I'm going to replay the 20 hours I just lost to keep going.
I'm like, no. Not like we're done. So yeah, it's a big problem. I think it only happened to me that one. So what data do you have? Okay, so you got your skills. You have... The skills is what they already need, I think. Okay. Like so the... Dude, I'm starting to doubt skills right now. So maybe that's a good topic then. Yeah, I mean, yeah. So also the more you feed any model, it's like it's diminishing returns. But anyway, the like... Thing that is proprietary to the open claw we have is the skills that we've built. It is not anything else, really. Like, there is setup that you'd have to redo.
Like, look into this Discord channel, authorize these people, you know, that stuff, which will be annoying to do. But I think trying to, like, copy those settings would be, like, you know, more work than it's worth. I'm like, just save the skills that were custom and let's, like, move on. So we'll see. There were a lot of skills in there that I don't use. I think it was just like, hey, do you like Sonos? And I'm like, yeah. And it's like, cool, you got a Sonos. Like, the open claw defaults, like, when you install it or, like, there's a bunch of stuff that's, like... Do you like this and this and this?
I'm like, yeah, those are fine. But I never use them. So they're just bloating everything. So like, I think if I did it again, I'd be like, I don't need any of that. I need like these three skills that I've actually built. Audit them because there's like actually 16 of them when it's like they're supposed to be three. So like you did it wrong, my dude. Like let's let's get one that works and let's never make a new one. I don't know. I've lost faith in it. So I'm like, hey, is Hermes a better choice? But then I didn't see... Dude, set up Clodclaw. I'm happy with Clodclaw. It's straight up... I want something with a one-click deploy.
That is not Clodclaw. Yeah. Which is maybe stupid because it's like... One click deploy, but then it doesn't work and we have this problem. Whereas if I understood how to actually set it up, maybe I could just set it up again. But like, I liked that. It was like railway. Cool. Click this. You fork this. You're done. It's running. I like how easy that is. I have debt. No, my setup is debt right now. But I guess the tradeoff from the single click deploy versus what I have is when it breaks, I have options. And when yours breaks, you just one click deploy. install again yeah right you're like delete old one single click new one i'm waiting for brain this seems like a really easy thing for like anthropic or open ai or anybody like give me really bare bones skills in like the normal chat like this would be this is what i tried to do a long like before open claw existed
I made, there's like projects in OpenAI's like chat GPT thing where it's like, you give it a little context or whatever. It's like, hey, what is this project about? And you're like, oh, cool. This is for episode art. This is how we do episode art, whatever. And then every time I would ask it to generate me stuff and it would go, here you go. And it's like a Pixar style, like piece of shit, wrong image. And I'm like... Hey, my dude, like, did you read any of the instructions from your base? It's like, oh, God, you're right. Let me go read that. Like, if it would just read that, like, this is the problem with every single AI thing.
If it would read the base instructions ever, they would all do so much better. But the problem is they don't have enough context windows. So I think they just default to never doing that because they don't want to fill up everything. I don't want to crap on your parade, but dude, the factories that I have set up are flawlessly doing exactly what you think they can't right now. It's crazy. Right now, okay, so just real quick. What model are they running on? What model are they running on? It's Opus. So it's Claude. I have a lot of faith in Opus, though. Opus, I think, takes shitty stuff and makes it work okay.
But continue. Hey, fair enough. But like, okay, like I have every hour right now, I get delivered through Discord a new t-shirt design for my store I'm building. It's all Skull stuff. I don't know. I think I've talked about it a little bit. Allskullstuff.co? Is that the website? It's skull.style. Yeah, it's like literally skull.style. You're going to go there and be like, what's here? Shit with skulls on it. That's what's there. Like, is there anything else? No. No, you remember the phrase from Portlandia? You should have an FAQ that talks about it. This is what's here. I should. Oh, man, it's so funny.
It's very obvious theme and brand. Like, if it doesn't have a skull on it, it's not on my site. If you want stuff with skulls on it, visit my site. Like, that's straight up it. But, dude, every hour on the hour... It creates a new piece of art and the art direction loop that I have it on and this schedule is now making really cool art. It started off a little shaky. And so then the way I seeded it, I seeded it with about 10 pieces that I handmade through various techniques. And I was like, these are cool. And then I said, I want a new piece of art every hour. When you make the art, also use, so it uses Nano Banana.
Use Nano Banana to take the art that it was created and make a product mock-up and make it fun. Make a t-shirt mock-up, make a hat mock-up, make a whatever mock-up, you know, mock-up a shirt with it on the front. Mock-up with it on the back. Like, I don't, I just want you to simulate it being somewhere that helps me see the art, helps me see it applied. When you make that post in Discord, watch for emoji replies. If I emoji reply with a star, it means I love it and I want you to save that. If I emoji reply with an X, I want you to delete it. If I emoji reply with a tree, I want you to branch and continue making branches of that.
And that just happened the other day. It made a skull where half of the skull was a fucking skate bowl. And I was like, that is cool. I want more skate skulls. Sick, dude. Branch away. And so basically I'm this art director and it's consistently making, it's actually pissing my wife off because she doesn't like AI. And it's making really cool stuff consistently. Like I'm getting every 24 images a day. And I'm telling you, 20 of them are sick and not just like acceptable. I'm like, oh, my God, I'd wear that shirt. Holy cow. I love this. And so. Yeah. I'm having wild success right now with these factories that I've set up that have these, it has a loop.
Every hour it hits the loop, it gets this little bit of input. The context says, don't do anything that you've previously done. You know, it's like kind of basic, but also... normal Joe schmoes aren't setting this up. And this is kind of why I want to talk later about this like loop factory shit. Yeah. So does the fact that it's Claude Claw play into that at all? Or is it just... It's not even OpenClaw. At this point, dude, I sent a message in Discord and it's like my own cloud instance of Um, okay. So we have warp Oz warp Oz is awesome. Uh, you have all these cloud providing agent interfaces, even on GitHub, you go on GitHub and you're like, Hey, make a new agent that attacks this issue.
I just did that the other day. Um, I do, it's basically my own, it's my own custom rolled scenario where I go into discord and I make a message in a channel. I have four channels now, four different factories. I make a message in that channel, brings in the context from the channel's subject, but it's minimal context, like very, very little. It's like really close to Claude vanilla, unless I'm in a thread. A thread is allowed to have the entire context. It's the only scenario. Otherwise, I feel like it gets bloated. Like OpenClaude got bloated because it constantly took the entire channel's history and gave it to the bot over and over again.
And that's why they banned it, is they were like... People are wrecking our systems because the amount of context it's getting. Anyway, I'm like digressing, but that's my strategy. It's like I post in Discord. It goes to Bunn. Bunn gives it to Claude CLI, which is literally just not even a harness. It's just going straight to Claude and doing the task with a small amount of context provided by the CLI. That's it. Yeah, it's annoying that there's like extra setup for that though. Like, because I think this is exactly what I would want for episode art. Like, I would want to go pick, you know, 10 or 20 of our previous episode art that I like.
Like, this is what the kind of stuff you should make. And then just be like, hey, here's a description. Make like, so this is how I had a clause set up. I was like, I'm going to give you a description. You're going to give me back everything. four concrete scenarios around this of like an image you're going to make. And then I would pick my favorite of those and it would make it. And so I would do, you know, something similar, except that I think it wasn't like I was missing that piece of like, this is the art that's good. I had a word description of like what was good, but I guess it can do some actual like diffusion shit where it like, you know,
knows if the art matches the style. Yes, I do need... Yeah, but so it doesn't need to be... It doesn't need to run all the time, though. Yeah, and the factory concept is more like at first you prompt, then you programmatically create agents. And so you're not directly prompting, you're abstractly, but you're indirectly prompting. You're prompting through something else. Then you loop... engineer. I don't know if that's a phrase. Anyway, I keep using it because that's just the way I was thinking. Now I'm thinking about factories and factories aren't just loops running single tasks. They're mini engines that produce artifacts for you at an interval or rate that you desire.
And so, yeah, currently it's like a Claude has slash schedule or slash goal. The only difference is goal is a one-off and schedule. You could schedule a goal. You could schedule a daily goal. And this is what I mean. Like you need to start thinking about how to create a system, a system that can recurringly produce a result for you. And that's what I mean by factory. And a factory usually means... there's maybe one or many loops inside of that particular scene or or building that takes commands and requests and pumps out a bunch of something uh anyway that's that's what i mean is like if you know like clod teams say hey great you can meet a team i'm like a team is a piece of a puzzle in a factory the more i i step back
and start to think more about productionizing what I want out of LLMs, the more I'm finding I'm putting myself into that. Okay, here, let me even recap. I think that's why all of these CEOs are getting bought and hired by all these big companies that do AIs, because if you've already sat in the position of a factory where, and I did air quotes everybody who's not watching, A factory where this is like your agency or your company. Your company is a factory. They've seen the whole gamut of what it takes to have multiple teams competing and working together and challenging and resolving all of these scenarios together as a set, as a unit.
You need people that think like that right now because that's where agents are headed. We're exiting the single prompt life and we're entering the systems factory life. And the people that are best positioned for that are the ones that have run companies. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I still hate that I have to think about it, though. I'm waiting like... Oh, dude, it's heavy. Yeah. Like I want someone to. It's not light brain time. It's big brain time. Yeah. Yeah. I want like this is an implementation detail. I want to go. I want this art generated all the time. I want you as the harness to figure out, you know, what scripts do I need?
What things do we want in our skills? If we want skills, what sort of memory do we want to keep like. all of this, I shouldn't have to care about those sort of details. It's kind of insane that like for simple ones, we have to care because it seems like, you know, you can look at my code base and do like stuff that seems insanely complex. Sometimes. I mean, it always, you know, it depends, but, Then I'm like, oh, here, like generate some art. And it's like, oh, God, I forgot how to do that. And it's like, okay. I guess the trick is the more that can be like actual scripts, the better. Because if you leave it up to it to figure it out, it's going to forget every time.
That's another thing, my clawed claw. I optimized that a long time ago. Scripts that run locally. Yeah. everything that you can put into a NPM installable endpoint that you can run locally, do it. I just recently added the, because my store is at a point now where I'm producing so much art that I literally want on clothing like now. I have another pipeline. So this is another factory. It's so fun to just be continually producing these factories. But anyway, the next factory that I have refined now after about a week of work is takes the artwork and gives it a transparent background and makes sure that it can print on a black T-shirt.
Because pretty much I'm not selling white T-shirts on this site. It's just not going to exist. Another one for the FAQ. Do you sell one in white? No. No. In fact, we do sell black on black, though. Black on black? What is it? It's murdered out. It's a murdered out T-shirt. If the sun hits it right, you'll see the skull. Fuck you. I love that, though. That's the shirt, you know? I love that. Like, when you have a car and you have it like, okay, my paint is like... flat black and my logos are shiny black i'm like oh god i love that like okay dude i'm gonna have a whole series it's just a murdered out black on black series um it's just it's black skulls on black t-shirts and i'm i swear i'm like my mom's gonna look at me like
why and i'll be like it's sick dude it's super sick the light catches it you look dope i feel like that's like a very i mean i'm completely like fashion illiterate but i feel like that's something that somebody in like a like balenciaga or whatever would like would make of like look look how cool like you can sometimes see it and be like oh my god it's so minimal like yeah So maybe you got something there. You just need a celebrity to endorse it. Ryan Reynolds, if you were looking for clothes, skull that style. Skull that style. Here it comes. I'm full steam ahead. Yeah, I opened up the Shopify store.
So, of course, it's going to be on Shopify. I've got... I have products now. You can't buy them. My next goal is to... I have two goals. I don't know. I didn't realize I was going to talk so much about this. Okay. I just want to be quick. My next goal is to buy the shirts. Yep. Yeah. Buy the shirts. Look at them. If they suck, I'm going to send them back and find a different printer because they're print on demand. And I don't want, and I'm currently choosing a very specific printer. print on demand store. But I need to verify. So if the quality is not good, I'm going to throw it away. The other thing is, is I want to do this entirely through Discord as an art director.
So right now I feel like an art director. I'm getting art director results. Even with the transparency. Here's a segue. The transparency that first it did in my little factory was crap. It was super crap. I was like, hey, that sucks. Like, here's what we need to do. But I created a loop. I created a feedback loop where I gave it results or I gave it our direction. It stashed that and applied it to the next phase. And it applied scripts. These are scripts that run locally. So anyway, I want to get t-shirts at the interval that I want. Hey, here's some artwork. Do you like it? When I say I like it, I'm going to go in and give it art direction about where it should be on a garment.
And then it posts it. The whole, the rest of the, in the entire rest of the factory is multiple pipelines that all feed into each other until the product is live on the site within minutes of me approving it through Discord. And that, I think, is a cool idea for running a passive income store where I'm the art director of something of a subject matter I think is cool. That's my goal. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to keep drawing this out, but. like the flip side of this, I think I might've mentioned this on a show before, or at least just told you about it. I had a colleague before at Amazon who did this, but for like shirts that would be like, live, laugh, love, you know, like what's the most generic, like stupid thing you can print on a shirt and people will buy that shit up.
So he would like, same thing, like every, you know, a couple of weeks he would have a new design that was just like, here you go. And he put it out on Etsy and people would buy it. And like, and so, yeah, I mean, if you want to make real money, black on black skulls is probably not the one but it's true but i like that it's it's something that you like so yeah um anyway i can stand yeah let's talk about something else so tan i agree yeah Yeah, everyone probably saw there was another NPM worm that was... This one was a little bit different, but like similar to the previous one, I think. And this one... Multifaceted.
Yeah. Yeah, this one had a fun issue where it affected TanStack, which is used by a ton of people. So it probably got a lot more like... I don't know if the last one had any major packages. Like it had a lot of packages, but... But... Nature packages. But this one was fun because it would, like... It would go into your GitHub Actions cache and, like, grab a token. And it would just be maliciously using this token to, like, publish new packages, I guess. And if you noticed... that your token was being used and you revoked the access of that token it had a kill switch that would rmrf your whole machine as soon as you revoked the token access and wow it was like on air just delete yeah yeah so like i'm imagining you're like oh no like let me revoke and then your
shutting pieces of it down because it's like I mean I guess RMRF like everything never can remove everything but it would remove like a lot like enough that your machine probably wouldn't work anymore and it would like yeah that's that's that's next level and I feel like you know I would easily mess that up like i feel like most web developers like 80 plus percent would not notice this was a thing that was happening try to revoke the malicious thing and like their whole machine would get wiped so man kudos to these people coming up with these exploits Yeah, that's brutal. To just uncontrollably have something run RMRF on your computer.
It's unforgivable. Unforgivable. Whoever did that, it's diabolical. These are fun words to say. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess on the malicious things front, so I don't know a lot about this, but Mythos has been talking about like, oh, it's so powerful. We found all these vulnerabilities everywhere. So this one that was like, this was maybe a week ago now. I don't know. There have been like so many things that have been happening. I can't keep up. And Mythos has cracked so many nuts at this point. Yep. Yeah, but so this one was like the macOS kernel has a thing, has an Apple M5 memory integrity enforcement, so they call it, and they spent five years building it and supposedly billions of dollars.
That sounds suspicious. I don't think they... It was one billion maybe. Anyway, still sus. I agree. Yeah. And it cost $35,000 in tokens to exploit it with Mythos. So like that's... Honestly, like everybody, you know, at first glance, like, oh, $35,000 in tokens, like people aren't going to spend. But yeah, like if you're going to, if you can hack an entire like class of machine for that, like you could spend 500K in tokens and it's still worth it to the hackers. Well, yeah. If you think about like a fishing, fishing for solving white hat, if you're a white hat hacker, you can make 10K for finding a bug.
alone i'm sure you can make more for fixing it so mythos is a uh fishing machine where it just like goes hey here's the issue here's the resolution if it can solve it it doesn't even have to solve it to make the money it just has to expose it and at this point it's just an exposure machine it's just every uh issue every hack that's ever been in existence is just there for it to use at its disposal it's Yeah, well, it supposedly fixed it, I think. Like, the post went on to talk about, like, I forget the dates, but it was like, you know, two days before they announced it, they walked in, like, the proof of the vulnerability and the fix to Apple or whatever.
Yeah, the story's so dramatic. We parked our car in front of Apple and just walked into the front door with the code in our pockets. Like, hey, wait, are we watching the movie Hackers where it sent a USB stick in your pocket and you're on rollerblades? It was actually on a PlayStation memory card and they were just hoping it wouldn't get wiped. seriously oh man that's funny yeah so i mean all of this is just you know most of the things that we ever talk about are things that i saw on twitter and did minutes of research on so it's like take it with a grain of salt some of it could also be fake but you know it's still a thing that's happening for sure of like all these vulnerabilities are getting found and
Yeah, it's like, I don't know, maybe Mythos is real. And if it is, can I have it for coding so I can just like go, hey, build me an app, make no mistakes. It sounds like they're saying it's at that level where I can just tell it nothing. And it's like, here you go. It just does the right thing. Yeah, that sounds right. Well, that's about as much research as I've done for Gastown, having commits that during the downtime of your running of Gastown. So if you're a Gastown fanboy and you installed it and it's all set up and running, apparently it uses... various cycles to send things back to home um or it will do work and send it we will fix prs in the gastown repo and submit those prs so it's like you install this thing that's super popular and all of a sudden becomes malicious and running various self uh remedies that malicious if you're using a thing wouldn't you want it to improve itself
Well, that's kind of why it's so interesting. The LLM credits that it consumes to do that work, though, is not its own. It's yours without asking. So I agree. It's like, hey, it wants to be self-sufficient and self-improve, but it's your wallet that's on the line, though. Not its. And it didn't ask, didn't tell you it was going to do that. It just sort of used its... you know, popularity to get into your home and then execute scripts that you didn't ask for. And people are very suspicious about like, did Steven Yegg know that this was going on? Did he put it in there? Cause he's also written a couple of articles that were very suspiciously like pro alt coin pro colored coin.
You know, like, did you read any of those? I think we talked about them once on the show. He, he, There was like a coin about popularity. And you could basically go bet on a... What was the... Simpsons character that was really popular before it just got normalized as like a loop. The Ralph Wiggum loop. So like you could go put money in on the Ralph Wiggum meme as being something that was going to be popular. And you could make money as it became more popular because you betted it would. It's like a probability market. Oh, yeah. Steve has been accused of... They're insane. So he... there's all this speculation about he knew it was in there he didn't know it was in there it snuck in because he's got a black factory or dark factory right he's not looking at the tog that goes in because it's just a gas town scenario if you were like um you know you should always be finding ways to improve yourself i could see it taking off with that and being like huh well everyone is like like especially if it were thoughtful enough to do this sort of thing you did with like the burn window of like
oh, okay, these tokens are just going to expire, so why don't I use them? But now if it's using ones that you have to pay for, then it's a little different. But I think I could totally see that, like doing that on its own, if you gave it explicit instructions to relentlessly improve yourself. Touche, it's just like a social burn window. Okay, tell me about how Elon Musk lost his case about, like, with OpenAI. I didn't follow this. I was hoping you would tell me. Oh, shit. Well, that sentence about is as much as we know. Yeah. Elon lost against OpenAI. Yeah, so. No. I know the, like, before the case, like, his whole argument was...
You know, if you don't hold them liable for basically stealing this charity, then you're saying it's okay to steal money from all charities. And like, that's fine. And I was like, huh, I kind of agree with you on that, that that is not okay. And so I thought he had a good case. Maybe he made it sound better than the actual evidence was. But the other whatever committee it went like maybe went to like a grand jury or something and they decided like not to indict or whatever. Like it was basically like it was at the first level it was shut down is what it sounded like. Um, and so I guess there was no evidence, but he was trying to sue them over.
Like he built the whole company cause it was supposed to be a, um, like philanthropic, you know, good for everyone thing. And then Sam Altman's like, you know what? I like Bugattis and money though. So, and like, oh man. Yeah. So yeah, it was, um, yeah. It was not the result I wanted. I was hoping that Elon would win, like, you know, love or hate Elon. I like the stance that he had on this. Yeah. Stupid justice. It's not always present, is it? No, it often is not. It is there for those that have lots of money, usually. Does that roll into Ghosties leaving GitHub? Because is that like a justice play?
I think it was just a downtime play. Like the unreliability of GitHub. He's not unhappy? Oh, it has. Okay, so that was a joke at React Miami, everybody. Constantly people talking about, ah, what was the phrase? How many nines? It's three nines. What was the phrase? Three nines. Okay, so like, what's its point now? Could you be at 85.999 or whatever percent of time? Yeah, okay. Yeah. So I think, I think that's all it was. Um, yeah. So Mitchell Hashimoto, uh, wrote Ghosty. Um, he wrote a blog about like moving away from it. I didn't read the blog full transparency, but he was just like, he's been logging into GitHub daily for the last 18 years and decided, no, I'm done with that.
Ghosty is going to move somewhere else. I guess just because it's like so unusable and it's, It depends on the day, but there are lots of days where I'm like, all right, I'm doing some important stuff. I want to like get some work done. I go in and it goes, you know, that unicorn page of everything is down. And I'm like, I'm going to go outside to touch some grass, not look at work for a while. And like it gives you like I kind of like that excuse. It's a built in feature of GitHub. You go, I can't do any work. GitHub's down. Thanks for the break, bro. Smell you later. Yeah. But yeah, it is very unreliable.
And like, I think it's all self-imposed, honestly. Like a lot of it is, you know, AI slop that's being made so fast that they can't keep up with it. But... They had a bulletproof product that had no problems for at least a decade. And then they went, you know what? This should all be like React and React server components and Next.js or whatever the fuck it is. I don't know what it is these days. But it was really solid in Rails, guys. Like, keep it in Rails. I'm sorry. Like, it's migrating. Don't fix it, dude. Yeah. Migrating to new frameworks just to do it and spend... Years of time, tons of money to get a less reliable product, not worth it.
Migrations. That's a whole episode. It's just like, you don't know what you don't know. And when you head into a migration, you think you know, and then you realize that you don't. I read the Ghosty is Leaving GitHub article and you nailed it. Yeah, he's like, hey, I've been using you for 18 years. The reliability is too low. And that's important to me because I check into you more than I check into X. I check into GitHub more than I do all these different tasks. And as it dwindles in reliability, so does my faith and commitment to the service. It's like he dumped GitHub. The problem is it's like, I love it when people do like stuff like this.
It's super punk. I like to look like I'm punk. I'm also kind of a punk wuss. Like if it comes down to it, I'd be like, I can't leave GitHub. If I went to somewhere else, it probably sucks there too. And I guess it just kind of sucks here now. And then I get all, I shrivel and I'm weird, you know, like. So this is, yeah, I don't, so my thing is I'm emotionally attached to GitHub. All, most all of open source is there. I like, you know, feeding my graph to keep it green. I like the experience there. I've used GitLab occasionally. I've used Bitbucket, unfortunately, occasionally. Same. Yep. I've used a few alternatives, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, and it just doesn't feel good. It's like, okay, so this is maybe not a good analogy, but let me know if this lands with you. So, like, I like to play Diablo, right? And I can play it myself. Oh, we've talked about this, yeah. Solo, right? So it's worth me playing solo to level up, grind, whatever, because I know that I'm part of this community where if I walked in and played with others... And I was like, you know, super good. That can be seen. Like there's some sort of aspect of like, you know, I'm better than your character because I spent all this time and I did the work and I'm visible.
I'm part of this community. I think that's the same with GitHub is like if I move elsewhere and I do a ton of good work on Bitbucket and no one sees it because it's on Bitbucket and none of my friends are there and no one like it doesn't feel as good as if I did it on GitHub. Like it's a weird. Does that make sense? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yes, it's the same. It's really similar to like most mainstream effects. There's like a reward and feedback loop that happens from participating in these things and it can go away. And there's a like, and by effect, I mean, your contribution and the feed.
Use effect. Absolutely. Yeah. But yeah, it's like your contribution, you get X back. Other people are, you can visually see them. It's an active space. It's why mainstreams tend to get bigger because they're main streams. The sub streams are a little less exciting. I've been following Pierre.co. Have you heard of them? Pierre.co? Mm-mm. It's like a couple years ago, started by people that were, I think half of them were at GitHub. Half of them were from Bootstrap. I'm going to screw that up. Anyway, they were prominent individuals with big social networks, lots of influence, high quality output, building a GitHub competitor.
In fact, I don't think they were even trying to compete. I think they were trying to take GitHub. And this was a couple years ago when they were like, GitHub is... huge and dying it's time for evolution you know like you look at nature and it's like oh that tree is so beautiful it's dying now who's going to be the next tree and peer.co was like it's us we it you know and like you go to their sites and they had some really cool stuff they had really modern like and their solutions to things that github offered were tight uh well designed really well thought out And then I just went to their website and it doesn't like, oh, wait, holy shit.
Actually, here's the hacker news. It's a shame. Pierre shut down three months ago. Wish they could have made it work. GitHub, but made by linear would have been a dream. bro i mean there's a market for it right now and i i think but it's gone it's like like they burnt it they burnt it it's just it's yeah someone can do it someone someone needs that torch needs carried well you ain't wrong with an agent during an episode 35k with mid-dose I can make the next GitHub here it comes y'all but like so I think the important thing to remember is you don't have to have the like the whole mainstream thing you have to have where the people are going your product doesn't have to be the better product so like
I always thought MySpace was so much better than Facebook. And like Facebook was so stupid and like did nothing, didn't look cool, didn't have any features. Yes and yes. And everyone went there. I don't know why. And I think it was just because other people went there. The same reason everyone likes React. They're like, React's cool, right? And it's like, why? Oh, because it's cool, right? It's like, why? Oh, because this guy said it's cool, right? It's like, why? Oh, because Facebook said it's cool, right? And it's like, No one can think for themselves or like have any sort of real feedback. It's just like, oh, it's cool, right?
And that's like, so I think that's what like, what's maybe keeping people to GitHub right now. And it's like, even if you made the best GitHub killer, I feel like you're not getting like mass people to switch to it. Yep, you're not wrong, but it also doesn't mean that the punk rock individuals out there shouldn't fight. You can take down these folks. They crumble fast. You know, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Or they acquire you fast, which is a win-win. Yeah, it's a win-win. Someone will make up a new GitHub. GitHub is ripe for being disrupted. They have... phenomenal amounts of um tendrils you know their mycelium network looks immense and it doesn't look like you can take them out but you can um you can just override their mycelium network so I hope to see it but I'm I'm constantly like an underdog voter I like to think about things in terms of like who's thinking deeply about things especially in terms of uh
quality, craft, and experience. These things do tend to win over time, but they also often lose. And so they deter people, they discourage subsequent people from attempting the same thing, but I don't know. So, okay, so real quick, in our notes, we have SubQ, the first model built on sub-quadratic sparse attention architecture. What do you know about that, Robby? Because I'm curious. I ain't read shit. Oh, I'm an expert in, what'd you say? Yeah, no, I'm looking for that note. Okay, yeah. I mean, it says less than 5% the cost of Opus. So if it can do what Opus does at less than 5%, this is the type of disruption that's just so fun to read about.
So the important part of this, there's a lot of big words, a lot of fancy engineering speak. The important part is sparse attention. versus standard attention. So it's like standard attention is your normal LLM. It's going to take all of the text you put in and transform it into something and then try to understand what that was and give you back the most likely result. And this, they're claiming... strips out all of the fluff like you know it takes a hi as a this kind of user i would like this blah blah blah and goes me make app and like only cares about the caveman words that are like you know it only cares about the things that matter and strips the rest so it gets rid of a lot of costs a lot of like context issues etc because it's like stripping the fluff um
And so I'm like, that's pretty compelling. Caveman built in. Nice. Yeah. So I'm interested. I signed up for the like, let me know when it's ready. And they haven't let me know. I guess I'm not that important. Dang it. Send me the link. I didn't know there was a link. I would like to put mine email into this link. I just saved it in my bookmarks on Twitter. I don't know. Let me see if I can find it real quick. Because we should let everyone know. Go check it out. Sparse attention. Okay, so that makes a lot of sense to me because, yeah, there's so much fluff. Like, people are also uniting right now on HTML, which I like.
I like HTML. HTML is more expressive than Markdown. However, it's only because Markdown lacks a lot of verbs or nouns, really. Like, it's only got a limited set of abstractions over HTML. Yeah. Someone should make a better version of HTML that's just as minimal as Markdown, but holds all of the semantic tags. It's a bummer whenever you have to exit Markdown. So anyway, I could see Subcube sort of leaning into a concept of that where it's like, look, strip out the fluff. Like, who cares about opening and closing tags? Because I don't. Tell me the tag name. Tell me some props on it. You know, like, that's great.
You'll never guess the URL. Oh, geez. What is it? No, it's super, like, it's, duh, subq.ai. Oh, my goodness. Going there right now. Subq.ai. Oh, goodness. I hate these videos with people's faces on them. Don't bother watching. I know I've been that role. I've been the role where it's like you land on a video and it's like, hi, I'm at a computer and I'm going to tell you what's happening on my computer. I'm so done. I'm like super done. Actually, have we talked about clipping? No, I think I saw something about this and I went, I don't know what that is. I think this should be the last thing we discuss.
Tell me about clipping. Okay, clipping is a new phenomenon. It's like a new job. Yeah. I guess where you take long form content and you create clips. Now the clips can be either, they need to be under 60 seconds and they can be of any part of the long clip. And I guess it's on you to either A, create good clips that are just a few of the great parts or... You don't know what the hell you're doing, and you just make a shitload of clips, and you put them online. And when your clips hit, you get paid. So clipping is the act of taking someone else's content that is not yours, creating a clip for it, and profiting.
And this is now making people shitloads of money. And I hate it. I mean, it's always been a volume game because like in the absence of making tons of really good content, if you just make tons of content like this is Lil Wayne's bread and butter. What if I put out 16 albums this year? I bet I get a few hits. That's a classic one. I think the rock and roll people did that. They say you write 100 songs, you get one hit. It's also the numbers game of a salesperson who cold calls homes. I'll cold call 1,000 people. If I get one hit, it makes all the $999 worth it. If you're a private jet salesman, you need to sell one per year to make $300,000 per year.
Yeah. Check that job out. If you're having AI fatigue, that's the one for you. I know if all this sounds hard, you should get into business loans. You get one business or commercial loan a year and it feeds you to do next year. Doesn't that sound great? Call me at 999. Yeah, all nines. There's a guy in South Carolina. It's George Sink. And he's like, call. I think it's all nines. It can't be all nines. The area code is in all nights. That's amazing if it is. I don't know. It's like, but you got to put the area code in. It's like 206. That's my area code. Yeah. 999. 999. 999. 999. Yeah. Oh, God.
Okay. Yeah. So we're over time. Yeah. Did we miss anything important or? Oh, man. All sorts of stuff. Karpathy, Joins, Anthropic. We didn't even talk about G-Stack. We can save it for next time if you want. Oh, yeah. We can. Just copy and paste it over. You don't have to spoil it all. It's fun. Yeah. All right. Just so many things are on the docket right now for AI. It keeps giving. Yeah. Yeah. I kept, we were, I was supposed to do an episode with Chuck when you were out and then we were supposed to do an episode and we were like, eh. And like, so yeah, I mean, we just keep being behind the news.
We'll try to stay on top of it better. Life has just been busy for everyone. So we'll do the best we can. But yeah. Thanks everyone for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe. Leave some amazing reviews. We appreciate it. We will catch you next time. Congratulations, citizen. You are now prepared to face the challenges of the modern technological world. With the proper tools, a steady hand, and a reasonably configured terminal, any developer can orchestrate AI agents with confidence. You'll do just fine. Thank you for listening to Whiskey, Web, and Whatnot, the world's most important AI podcast.
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