169: FAANG is dead; long live MANAMANA!

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week’s JS Party. Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. With your hosts, Robbie the Wagner, and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That’s right Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development.

[00:00:27] Intro: I mean, it’s all in the name. It’s not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set.

[00:00:36] Ad Transition: Whiskey Web and Whatnot is brought to you by.

[00:00:41] Chuck: We’ll be talking about how it gets larger and not rounder though. It’s like flatter from ship shape studios. True. Yes. A round three. Yes. Welcome. , yes.

[00:00:52] Robbie: Hopefully because we got mega screwed twice yesterday and 10 whiskeys. [00:01:00] And, nothing worked.

[00:01:01] Robbie: , sponsored by Riverside.

[00:01:02] Chuck: Yes. Sponsored by Riverside. Completely their fault. Sorry guys, please, uh.

[00:01:07] Robbie: No, usually they’re good, and I would still recommend it. But, because we had a ton of whiskey yesterday, we’re gonna do something a little different today. We’ve got, uh, some things we’re, we’re big fans of.

[00:01:16] Robbie: We’ve been talking about this. Um, I don’t think Fresca gets the love that it should.

[00:01:20] Chuck: It’s, it’s making a massive comeback though. Yeah. I do think I’m seeing it more and more. I think it was the product placement in the show, the boys. I think it’s solely responsible for the resurgence of Fresca.

[00:01:31] Chuck: Interesting. No, I don’t know. We’ll have

[00:01:32] Robbie: to ask, , Adam Argyle. He always mentions Fresca too. Right, right. If he’s just always been a fan or if he heard of it somewhere. Yeah, I

[00:01:40] Chuck: remember it as a kid or like, whatever, teenager and stuff, too. Delicious. And then disappeared from my life for like 20 years. And here it is.

[00:01:49] Chuck: It’s

[00:01:49] Robbie: back. It’s back in

[00:01:49] Chuck: various forms too, which is very interesting.

[00:01:52] Robbie: So should we start with the alcoholic or the non alcoholic?

[00:01:55] Chuck: Uh, non, I, I’m sorry, alcoholic. I think, yeah. Today’s [00:02:00] episode is brought to you by, Um, so the mash bill I’m very unclear about, but there’s,

[00:02:04] Robbie: I think, uh, 100 percent malted barley.

[00:02:07] Robbie: Ooh. Um, yeah.

[00:02:09] Chuck: Let’s, There is calories in this one though, compared to Fresca. Fresca is zero calories, a little bit of juice. Well, you can’t have a calorie free alcohol. If someone invents that, they will print money. It’s, I mean, game over. Yeah. Figure that out. So today is brought to you by the Coca-Cola Company?

[00:02:23] Chuck: Yes. Uh, I don’t know who makes this particular one. So 5%, , A BV

[00:02:29] Robbie: canned by Fresca Mixed Spirits Co. Wait a minute. In Daleville, Virginia? Okay. That’s, like, where I grew up, basically. Really? Daleville? Daleville is, uh, where my high school was. It was in Daleville. Did you know this Like, the middle of nowhere.

[00:02:45] Robbie: Wow. Did you know this

[00:02:46] Chuck: contains alcohol?

[00:02:48] Robbie: It does have a

[00:02:49] Chuck: thing up on top, so it’s just a little warning. Does

[00:02:50] Robbie: it say anything about if I should use heavy machinery after drinking it?

[00:02:55] Chuck: It might. I, uh, I don’t have readers yet. I’m, uh, I’m avoiding that. Should we call the

[00:02:59] Robbie: [00:03:00] Surgeon General?

[00:03:00] Chuck: Yes. You definitely. The Surgeon General says, may impair your vision in decision making.

[00:03:06] Chuck: Take in a sip. Okay.

[00:03:07] Robbie: It has notes of fresca.

[00:03:09] Chuck: Oof. It is, it’s, uh, it smells very grapefruity, you know? Yes.

[00:03:15] Robbie: Honestly, Because normal Fresca has so much fake sugar. This tastes more natural because it can have calories. Right, it’s allowed to have calories. So I wonder

[00:03:26] Chuck: if it does also contain

[00:03:28] Robbie: Contains no juice.

[00:03:29] Robbie: Not even less than 1 percent juice.

[00:03:31] Chuck: Contains no juice whatsoever. It’s got the juice. I can’t tell.

[00:03:36] Robbie: 1. 3 carbs. That’s not bad. Yeah.

[00:03:39] Chuck: So it’s a vodka spritz grapefruit citrus

[00:03:42] Robbie: soda.

[00:03:43] Chuck: Yeah,

[00:03:44] Robbie: but I think it tastes very much like a normal Fresca.

[00:03:48] Chuck: It really does. Yeah. I don’t detect any taste of alcohol. So if you like that in, in your beverages, when a little alcohol doesn’t taste at all like alcohol, I would say, I would suggest this.

[00:03:59] Chuck: If [00:04:00] you like Fresca, it tastes like a Fresca. It’s very delicious in that sense. , and I, I get what you mean, where it does somehow with zero juice, taste a little more natural. Yeah. , uh, feels ironic that that would be the case, but Olas, here we are. Yeah.

[00:04:14] Chuck: , yeah. So as far as, fresca, uh, Fresca alcoholic beverages, I’m gonna give it an eight.

[00:04:21] Chuck: Yeah. So our highly technical rating scale for our new, uh, listeners, uh, Jared, shout out to you, not the guy from Subway either. That’s weird. so it’s a rating system from zero to eight tentacles, zero being horrible, eight being amazing, hit start on this recording. If it fucks up, hold on. Wow. Okay, I’m not saying all that again.

[00:04:44] Robbie: No, we’re not starting over. We’ll just have some bonus content if this doesn’t work. Okay,

[00:04:48] Chuck: fair enough.

[00:04:49] Robbie: Bonus! Still says Roadcaster. I’m paranoid that everything’s not going to work.

[00:04:53] Chuck: Alright, well, we’re really changing the format of the show. We’re here in person.

[00:04:57] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:04:58] Chuck: So, yeah, you will, [00:05:00] uh, yesterday we tried to record.

[00:05:02] Chuck: , we gave two shots at it. That’s why this is take three. Because there’s no way in a single evening. You could try to record three episodes of a podcast where you’re tasting three whiskeys per. Yes. It’s

[00:05:14] Robbie: very, if you had one whiskey per, yeah, you could do it. But yeah, it was, it was sloppy. It was very entertaining.

[00:05:21] Robbie: I’m sorry. Everyone won’t get to hear it later.

[00:05:24] Chuck: If you caught the live stream, uh, you probably couldn’t hear what we were saying anyway because unfortunately, It shifted, technically, from these microphones to the camera. But, uh, anybody, nobody cares about that stuff. It happens.

[00:05:37] Robbie: It happens. Alright, so yes, I In terms of, I’ll go a different category.

[00:05:40] Robbie: Yeah, like, seltzer y, summer y alcohols. Yes. Still innate. Still innate. This is one of the best ones. Yeah. , Fresca kills it, slays, get Fresca.

[00:05:52] Chuck: Yes. , because why wouldn’t you like that? I like the high noons quite a bit. , there’s a grapefruit run there. That’s pretty tasty. And a peach [00:06:00] one. That’s quite good.

[00:06:01] Chuck: Uh, I don’t know. I’ve had a few of those. I like those a lot. I, for, I, I don’t know, comparing those two things, I would say I like to know a little bit that I’m drinking because If I don’t, then I can get, you know, Oh, I had three frescoes. Oops. These have alcohol. , yeah. So that was probably the only knock I

[00:06:21] Robbie: would have against it.

[00:06:22] Robbie: But, uh, they should make the one like, have you seen all the ones like white call has the blue one? That’s like 8 percent alcohol. Oh geez. They should do that and add a little more kick.

[00:06:31] Chuck: Okay. And,

[00:06:32] Robbie: uh, I do, I would like one with a little more kick.

[00:06:34] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. , have you had the long drink? I, I have some in the fridge upstairs.

[00:06:39] Chuck: Oh, nice. Long drink. Tasty. And you can kind of tell that it’s some alcohol and they have one that is also higher ABV. I forget what it’s called, but it’s like extra long drink. I don’t know. Whatever. Short

[00:06:50] Robbie: drink.

[00:06:50] Chuck: Yeah. It’s a short night for you, buddy. , yeah. So that one also pretty tasty and it has like some similar flavors.

[00:06:57] Robbie: Okay.

[00:06:57] Chuck: Okay.

[00:06:57] Robbie: So I do want to, in the realm of [00:07:00] beverages, from a different thing, um, Coca Cola, uh, Dr. Pepper.

[00:07:05] Chuck: Okay.

[00:07:06] Robbie: And take us back to Menomina because I want to revisit this. Okay. , because no one got to hear my clever things. So you want to, yeah. So I think Fang is dead. Yeah. Meta is, you know, it’s not Facebook anymore.

[00:07:21] Robbie: There’s no F. Yep. It’s got the M. Yep.

[00:07:24] Chuck: Uh,

[00:07:24] Robbie: well, I need to look at the word. Okay. To be able to tell you all the letters. Uh, so the

[00:07:29] Chuck: reference, while you do that, actually comes from, for me, it comes from Muppets. And there’s a whole song. Do do do do do. Yeah, that was in the Dr. Pepper commercial. But in the Muppets episode, he’s like doing this.

[00:07:44] Chuck: , doing this song and it’s really funny because it like kind of just goes on with gibberish forever. Like he goes really far away and then he’s like, Ma na ma na na. And then like the music’s still kind of going and it’s a little bit and then like he leaves and then he like calls the backstage and Kermit picks up and then [00:08:00] he’s like, Ma na ma na, you know, again, and so it’s just ongoing like that.

[00:08:03] Chuck: , anyway, so that’s the reference.

[00:08:05] Robbie: Yes, indeed. , so all right, Ma na ma na. Yes. We’ve got Meta, Apple, Netflix, Amazon, Microsoft, Alphabet, NVIDIA.

[00:08:17] Chuck: That was the new, that was another edition.

[00:08:19] Robbie: Yeah. And then we need another A. If anyone listening has another A for us,

[00:08:24] Chuck: yeah. And what are the qualifications though, right?

[00:08:26] Chuck: Because you can come up with a bunch of companies. Yeah. I think it,

[00:08:29] Robbie: like, technology companies that are killing it enough to pay people absolutely bonkers salaries. Right. Yeah. Is what, uh, what’s in. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, another A. There’s a lot of A’s. Yeah, I don’t have one on top of my head. Okay, someone probably know we’re gonna

[00:08:45] Chuck: workshop this one.

[00:08:46] Chuck: Yeah, so we’re gonna get there I mean, I agree regardless Fang is dead because like you said some of those companies are no longer I mean, there’s no G because Google is alphabet. So that goes away F goes becomes the M yeah, I do think it’s a [00:09:00] good point too that you brought up is like why is Microsoft not in here?

[00:09:03] Chuck: Like they’ve been doing well You For quite a long time. I mean, I think they pay pretty decent. There’s I think it’s maybe qualifiers are there

[00:09:10] Robbie: Maybe not as bonkers of salaries. It’s like it’s still high, but it’s not like hmm , you know, work a few years and retire

[00:09:18] Chuck: high. Okay, right. Uh. Well, Jonathan Creamer, if you want to share your salary with us, uh.

[00:09:24] Chuck: Yeah. Specifically, if you don’t mind.

[00:09:25] Robbie: Not, not telling you the numbers, like physically giving you money, you mean? Yeah, that would be fine too. Sharing the salary. Yeah, would you

[00:09:30] Chuck: share your salary with me? Yeah. I’m, I’m hurting. I want, I can’t afford frescas all the time. Like, life has gotten tough. It is, yeah.

[00:09:38] Chuck: But, uh, yeah. I do. Sometimes

[00:09:40] Robbie: I drink water. Mmm. It’s, it’s a sad day. But not out of the tap

[00:09:44] Chuck: or something, right?

[00:09:45] Robbie: Well, reverse osmosis, so out of that tap.

[00:09:48] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:09:49] Robbie: We’re not savages here. Yeah, geez.

[00:09:52] Chuck: I mean, check out the studio. Come on. Right. Uh, yeah, so I think excellent point there. So we’ll continue to [00:10:00] workshop that one.

[00:10:00] Chuck: I’m glad you were able to get past that and through that.

[00:10:03] Chuck: Were there any hot takes between us that you wanted to? I had the bullshit one about I don’t think either

[00:10:08] Robbie: of ours were too entertaining. Nah, it’s

[00:10:10] Chuck: not that great. I have a strong opinion, but I have a strong opinion.

[00:10:14] Robbie: I mean, we could do We could do Why not?

[00:10:16] Robbie: Why not? Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:17] Robbie: So Blow

[00:10:18] Chuck: Tootsie Pops. Yeah.

[00:10:19] Robbie: So, I’m just gonna say the same thing I said before, basically.

[00:10:21] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:10:22]

[00:10:22] Chuck: You like shitty gum. I know.

[00:10:23] Robbie: No. Not that. So, I like fruitier, , desserts. Yes. So, and candies and whatever. So, like, if I don’t want , you know, a really heavy chocolatey thing. I want the fruitier one most of the time, depends on my mood, but, , so that I like the blow pop.

[00:10:37] Robbie: It’s, it’s usually fruitier flavors, not as like dark. You don’t have the chocolate on the inside and you get the bonus of some gum. We kind of think the gum is a little bit shitty, but it’s, it’s good for a little while.

[00:10:49] Chuck: Yeah. You, you feel accomplished to a degree, but for me, the Tootsie Pop, you can kind of have that same thing.

[00:10:54] Chuck: It works. towards the gooey center. It’s chocolate like gooey center and the [00:11:00] flavor never goes away. And that, you know, you chew it a little bit, boom, flavor. That’s true. Yeah. And I, I tend towards more savory, , things in general and deeper desserts. Like, so German chocolate cake is my favorite cake. I don’t have it that much because it’s super rich.

[00:11:16] Chuck: But when you do, you’re like, yeah, I want to punch you in the face with that.

[00:11:19] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:11:20] Chuck: I

[00:11:20] Robbie: don’t know. All right, I don’t feel like talking about that anymore. Yeah, moving on. Um, yeah, yeah, something that I don’t think we 100 percent touched on. We talked about like, you know, mapping apps we liked, but,

[00:11:30] Robbie: driving in general, I don’t think we got to how we feel about like, you know, everything’s going to be an electric car.

[00:11:36] Robbie: There’s tons of sensors on everything. They’re all self driving. Yeah, good or bad idea. Like, should people be learning how to drive? without sensors, in case they are ever in that situation, or do we never have that again?

[00:11:49] Chuck: Yeah, I mean, I guess that’s an interesting point. , no, we did not touch on that before.

[00:11:55] Chuck: , well, when I was learning to drive, everybody always said you should learn to drive with a [00:12:00] manual. Because you have to be more engaged, and obviously at that point, you have no other experience, it’s very important that you’re paying attention all the time. Like, even just an automatic transmission was considered like, mmm, too much easy mode, you’ll get distracted.

[00:12:14] Chuck: Okay, well, whatever. So, obviously, that’s just like, dialed up a hundred times more than, But then, the reality is, is like, that’s likely, you know, what, That person will be driving for the rest of their time. Like, right? Do you need to regress in order to Oh, I should drive a car with, I should learn to, drive a wagon with horses on it, because that was so much harder.

[00:12:36] Chuck: So then when I get to a car, I’ll appreciate it.

[00:12:39] Robbie: the kind of difference is like, if a system stops working, Can you still drive if it’s an automatic transmission car, you don’t have the option to go. I’ll opt into manual. Yeah. So I think that makes sense. If you’re driving a Tesla and all of your self driving sensors malfunction.

[00:12:58] Chuck & Robbie: Yeah,

[00:12:58] Robbie: you can still drive without [00:13:00] them. But can you because you’re not used to it, right? So like, can you park in a parking spot? Can you like, Merge into traffic without all the sensors and cameras and shit. Right. I think it’s a little bit, a little bit nuanced.

[00:13:10] Chuck: It is a little bit. And I think it just comes down to, you don’t trust the robots.

[00:13:14] Robbie: I definitely don’t. I love the idea of no one ever having to drive. Like you get in your car, like that. I think we maybe touched on this on another episode that, uh, what’s the show and that, uh, black mirror.

[00:13:25] Chuck & Robbie: Yeah.

[00:13:25] Robbie: They have an episode where, yeah. They get in this Range Rover and the guy like starts driving and he drives for a little bit and he like presses a button and him and the other passenger turn around so that there’s this four chairs facing each other and it just drives.

[00:13:40] Robbie: Yeah. Like I love that idea. Like you could do whatever. It’s just like riding a train then. Yeah. You

[00:13:45] Chuck: just. Great. I can use this time for myself. I, you know, my commute or whatever it is. Yeah. Now become.

[00:13:51] Robbie: Yeah. I like that. And I like the. the possibilities that like Tesla, you know, if you own one, you could have it just go like, all right, I’m going to bed.

[00:13:59] Robbie: [00:14:00] You go drive people around and make me money or like whatever. , I think there’s a lot of cool potential with fully autonomous stuff.

[00:14:06] Chuck: Right.

[00:14:07] Robbie: I think it’s a little bit scary when everything is like that. Yeah. Cause if you can hack it and like turn all the cars off or like, yeah, something malfunctions and everyone crashes.

[00:14:17] Robbie: Like I’m sure there’s a lot of redundancy built in and whatever to where that. Theoretically couldn’t happen. But, um, I mean, if someone is being malicious, they’re gonna find all those redundant things and break them too.

[00:14:28] Chuck: Yeah, possibly. So,

[00:14:29] Robbie: like, I don’t know. It’s, it’s scary, but cool.

[00:14:34] Chuck: Right, yeah. Like, from a comfort perspective, it’s pretty great.

[00:14:38] Chuck: I do think that, to me, as, uh, Compute becomes more and more a part of our lives as automation to a degree becomes part of our lives. AI like things become part of our lives. I do think that like, there are other risks to that. Like, oh, our life gets easier, but then we’ve just kind of [00:15:00] Having control of so many things and to a certain degree, like security needs now have like really, scaled up.

[00:15:07] Chuck: So that’s what I think is an interesting perspective around who we talk about by software development and how much becomes AI generated and whatever else. I think for a while we’re going to have like an era of like the supervisor, like role. It’s sort of like, yes, Output is still faster because AI is doing a lot of things, but you still need someone to sort of like, you know, manage that, understand the prompts, understand the outputs, and then kind of like, you know, take that to the next degree.

[00:15:38] Chuck: And then beyond that, we have like massive security concerns about in general, like how much of our life becomes automated. And then like, you just never think about it again. But then again, then you don’t know if something malicious is happening. You don’t know. All that stuff until like something terrible and catastrophic happens.

[00:15:54] Chuck: So, , I think those are things that are going to exist through this next [00:16:00] evolution for us as a society. So, yeah,

[00:16:02] Robbie: I think we’ve trended fully away from understanding anything from most technology we use,

[00:16:07] Chuck: right?

[00:16:08] Robbie: for better or worse, like you hit a point where things are so complex that you just, Don’t expect to understand it hardware for me is all magic You’re just like sending some electrical impulses through random shit and it like interprets that

[00:16:21] Chuck: into these.

[00:16:22] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:16:22] Robbie: I don’t understand that but uh Yeah, I mean, I think that that’s a good I don’t know I don’t know what we want to talk about on this episode but something we talked about earlier like

[00:16:32] Robbie: is college gonna be a thing or are we going back to like Let’s just be a blacksmith or like, yeah, like do we, if technology is so solved that we need to only do physical world stuff,

[00:16:44] Chuck: you know?

[00:16:44] Chuck: Well, I think we’re a ways away from that. I mean, possibly it is like, yeah, the intention of college is education in general and job preparation or career preparation. It’s not as genericized as it had been for, you know, a couple, a few decades where in [00:17:00] like, go to college, earn your degree, get your own job.

[00:17:04] Chuck: Yeah, I don’t think it, I mean, we’ve already seen where like, that doesn’t exist to a great degree. As some jobs become more automated, more computer driven, obviously there’s some challenges there. yeah, I think, I think college is ripe for disruption in a lot of ways. I think the education system is ripe for disruption because You know, the public education system was developed to produce, like, factory workers and things like that.

[00:17:31] Chuck: Like, okay, farmers the 40

[00:17:33] Robbie: hour work week.

[00:17:34] Chuck: Yeah, exactly. Because, you know, we go from, like, being farmers in the Industrial Revolution to switching to, like, well now we need production. Production isn’t quite the thing anymore. What are we educating for as a society? College needs a strong look as well, because what are we preparing for?

[00:17:53] Chuck: Like, what are you being educated towards? ,

[00:17:56] Robbie: yeah,

[00:17:56] Chuck: yeah, I mean,

[00:17:56] Robbie: we’ve already created the world’s best tasting beverage. Yeah,

[00:17:59] Chuck: yeah, [00:18:00] it happens.

[00:18:00] Robbie: We don’t need to, yeah, like work on beverages anymore. That’s solved.

[00:18:04] Chuck: Yeah, this town is able to make podcast hosts and fresca beverages. Like, yeah, they’ve got some things.

[00:18:10] Chuck: Yeah, the high

[00:18:11] Robbie: school is a solid three out of 10. It’s, uh, Really good. It did have a lot of agriculture related teaching stuff. Interesting. , like, if you wanted to be super, I’m gonna be just a mechanic or whatever. You went to like a fully separate school for like half the day. Oh, right. Yes. But there was stuff at our school where it was like, you got your, you know, classic wood shop or like.

[00:18:34] Robbie: Yeah. But there were more things around like, you know, trades there. And that was like the more farmer side of the school. If you were like trying to go to college, you didn’t go in that hallway that much. Me and my friend took, uh, what was it called? I want to say it was called like applied ag tech or something like that.

[00:18:53] Robbie: I don’t know. It had, Oh my God. I don’t know if I’ve told you about this. I’m not sure. I don’t think so. We had a [00:19:00] test. You had a piece of paper and it had, uh, Five or six lines on it and they gave you a ruler and they said, tell me like write down the measurements of these lines.

[00:19:09] Chuck & Robbie: Okay.

[00:19:10] Robbie: Sounds like you can’t do poorly on it.

[00:19:12] Robbie: Right. Right. Yeah. So the answer is on your ruler.

[00:19:14] Chuck & Robbie: Yeah.

[00:19:15] Robbie: The kid next to me got a zero zero zero. I don’t know how. , but I was just like, damn, you just had to measure these lines. And he became

[00:19:28] Chuck: an excellent farmer though, you know, that’s, uh,

[00:19:30] Robbie: went somewhere. You don’t have to measure things to be a farmer.

[00:19:33] Robbie: Yeah. But, uh,

[00:19:35] Chuck: yeah. I remember that part of like high school where you had like some kids went off to the, trade, whatever thing. And they would learn things like masonry and whatever else. It seemed kind of cool. Yeah. It seems interesting. But like, yeah, it

[00:19:49] Robbie: wasn’t the path that like, Was blessed at the time you’re supposed to go to college, right?

[00:19:53] Robbie: Of course.

[00:19:54] Chuck: Yeah, so

[00:19:55] Robbie: I think we’ve backed off that a bit now. So,

[00:19:56] Chuck: yeah, I think there’s a ton of, , respect for [00:20:00] trades people and like the ability to like plumbers. That’s a great job. Like, guess what? AI is not going to replace plumbers at any point, but in the near future, robots, what’s

[00:20:09] Robbie: going to happen though, is the people who’ve done plumbing forever and are great at it.

[00:20:15] Robbie: Are gonna end up start retiring as all the people who are a mid level JavaScript engineer Yeah, get pushed out by AI and become a plumber. Yeah, then it becomes saturated plumbers Don’t make that much money now they’re all electricians and then the same thing happen And like I think everything will be so commoditized so cheap So like there’s not gonna be a great thing to specialize in That you could make a lot of money in.

[00:20:38] Robbie: Like, I think doctors, I guess, will stay that way. But that’s still a lot of school. You incur

[00:20:42] Chuck: a lot of school. You incur a lot of debt. Yeah, we said like lawyers could potentially be disrupted somehow. I think there’s that possibility. Well, you know, and the thing is, is um, It’s not like doctors make tons of money worldwide.

[00:20:56] Chuck: I think that’s very much a There’s certain countries and [00:21:00] cultures where it is more than less depending.

[00:21:02] Robbie: Well, in our health care system where it’s incentivized to be unhealthy so that they can do the insurance fraud game all over the place. It’s not fraud if

[00:21:10] Chuck: you’re sick.

[00:21:13] Robbie: Is that, is that what the law says?

[00:21:14] Robbie: So whenever I’m sick, I can commit as much fraud as I want. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That’s

[00:21:18] Chuck: all it is. That’s it. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. Start sending out some bills. Yes. Next time I’m sick,

[00:21:24] Robbie: I am suddenly a, uh, Nigerian prince and I’ve, I’ve lost access to my millions of dollars, but if you send me a thousand dollars, I can access it.

[00:21:31] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:21:32] Chuck: Or you’ll write me a check for well over that. And if I just give you the thousand back, it’s totally fine. Yeah.

[00:21:37] Robbie: Or, or PayPal.

[00:21:38] Chuck: Yes, definitely PayPal. Friends and family.

[00:21:41] Chuck: yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s a very high level conversation. I think what had, like, started this is last night we were saying, like, knowing your craft and things like that, like, specializing versus generalizing, and like, what is that?

[00:21:55] Chuck: And, what do we favor in that when it comes to software development web [00:22:00] as a whole? I do think you should know your tools. That’s the thing is like well beyond like oh, I learned React and I should learn JavaScript so I understand the native apis and what What works on the web?

[00:22:13] Chuck: But like, how does the web work? You know? Like, I type in an address. What is that? Oh, that goes, How does

[00:22:17] Robbie: it know where to go?

[00:22:19] Chuck: It does DNS. And it gets into, you know, Into your server. How does it get routed to the right files? And all of that crazy stuff. I think that’s worth knowing.

[00:22:28] Chuck: Or at least having a Understanding of how it works. Even if you never Do it yourself.

[00:22:34] Robbie: Yeah, I think we like, For so long, Things were changing so much. And there was so much cool new stuff you could do on the front end and in the web knowing that stuff was enough to get you by in your career.

[00:22:45] Chuck: Yeah,

[00:22:45] Robbie: and I think now It’s regressing back to like you got to be pretty senior to get a job first off.

[00:22:51] Chuck & Robbie: Yeah,

[00:22:52] Robbie: and then like the folks who Aren’t willing to like do you know anything you’re asked really it’s like if you’re doing A [00:23:00] lot of web stuff and then they’re like, well, I need some help with like some infrastructure or

[00:23:04] Chuck & Robbie: yeah You

[00:23:04] Robbie: You know, a config here, some back end works, some front end works, and whatever.

[00:23:08] Robbie: And just kind of knowing the complexities of like, you know, Fundamentals kind of apply across a lot of that. I don’t have great examples. Like, you know, one that’s easy is like, you know, knowing complexity of a function. Like, if you put 16 for loops together, Probably probably slow.

[00:23:25] Chuck: That’s bad. Yeah.

[00:23:26] Chuck: Yeah, how big yeah, and how big is the 15 15 is 15 is

[00:23:30] Robbie: 16 is

[00:23:31] Chuck: Yeah, a couple thousand Elements in in the array or iterator or whatever, right? Yeah,

[00:23:37] Robbie: and preferably if you could use nothing but , ternaries for all of, all of your, uh, checks in there too. Makes it more readable. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, I mean like stuff like that is applicable front end and back end and like, , you know, knowing a little infrastructure, being able to set up your own web server, et cetera.

[00:23:52] Robbie: think a lot of that is valuable. You don’t necessarily, like I’ve always been team, like computer science doesn’t matter for web [00:24:00] development.

[00:24:00] Chuck: Right.

[00:24:01] Robbie: I think if you’re going to be a, you know, full stack. do everything, it starts to matter a little more. not as much as like, if you’re a, uh, game developer or something that’s very math heavy and like, you know, that needs a lot more algorithms and whatever.

[00:24:17] Robbie: But I think we’re, we’re definitely leaning more towards be an engineer. Be flexible, be willing to learn new tools and be able to pivot quickly. And that’s going to be, you can do whatever,

[00:24:29] Chuck: wherever a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And then I guess the other side of that is like specialization can be good at times.

[00:24:36] Chuck: There’s been various times throughout the industry thus far. Or project specific, whatever it is. It just, oh, it makes more sense that I kind of focus over here. It makes more sense that you focus there. A couple on our team are sort of helping both of us and, you know, we get there in that way. I remember when that started to happen more, it had a lot more to do with like specializing in [00:25:00] accessibility and like, Things of that nature.

[00:25:03] Chuck: Oh, we have a separation of concerns and you know, you know a lot to make I mean css can be complicated and the cascade can be very challenging and have someone like

[00:25:13] Robbie: can be I think css is the most complex part today. They keep adding new crazy shit and I don’t understand. Oh, yeah Yeah, i’m so far

[00:25:22] Chuck: behind.

[00:25:22] Chuck: It’s yeah And so having like specialization in those areas if and when needed I think can be good.

[00:25:29] Chuck & Robbie: Yeah You

[00:25:29] Chuck: But like understanding everything that happens when it comes to like, you know, delivering for the web. I think that just kind of makes sense to like, I love hammers, but I know how screwdrivers work, you know, that kind of thing.

[00:25:42] Robbie: Yeah. I do think like a great model, but it’s maybe not like the most economical model for most companies is to have really focused niche experts. Like a, you got a CSS guy.

[00:25:55] Chuck & Robbie: Yeah.

[00:25:55] Robbie: And he’s not necessarily doing a lot of coding. He’s just really [00:26:00] hardcore, knows anything you’d want to know about CSS. So that if you’re like, I have a button and it needs to draw a border around it.

[00:26:07] Robbie: They can tell you instead of me spending. Five months or like some insane amount of time figuring out this stupid little thing. It’s like, they’re like, Oh yeah, I know exactly. Oh, I

[00:26:18] Chuck: got you. It’s does, does that person have to have like an arbitrary H somewhere in their name? Like you’re like, I don’t say it.

[00:26:25] Chuck: And then, yeah, I don’t understand, but okay. I’m going to just trust you.

[00:26:29] Robbie: Well it’s, it’s kind of like the H in bear.

[00:26:32] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:26:32] Robbie: , and he has a bear mascot. Yeah. Like the bear. Oh yeah. Like the, the

[00:26:36] Chuck: bear paint. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I always say behr. You do? Yeah, that’s not how it goes. That’s why I didn’t know what you were referencing, so.

[00:26:47] Robbie: Yeah, that’s, that’s, uh, they have those commercials where they sing about it now,

[00:26:50] Chuck: so. Yes, yes.

[00:26:52] CTA: This just in! Whiskey.fund is now open for all your merch needs. That’s right, Robbie. We’re hearing reports [00:27:00] of hats, sweaters, and T-shirts, as well as a link to join our Discord server. What’s a Discord server? Just read the prompter, man. Hit subscribe. Leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and tell your friends about our broadcast. It really does help us reach more people and keeps the show growing. All right, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[00:27:25] Chuck: so yeah, those are my thoughts around, , generalization and specialization. And let’s see, you, you didn’t realize you should have brought yourself additional frescoes, so you can continue. Thank you. To taste it and think about your

[00:27:37] Robbie: oh, you know what we had the alcohol one and the not alcohol one But what we didn’t consider is that there are three other flavors of the alcohol one Should we get those you just opened you’re not alcohol one, but that’s fine.

[00:27:47] Robbie: That’s what I want to do All right, let’s do it because i’m gonna do a little challenge. Yeah, I just finished tasting that one. So i’m gonna have

[00:27:55] Chuck & Robbie: a little

[00:27:56] Chuck: sip Have another mr. Carpenter, uh, somehow they taste [00:28:00] very similar very similar

[00:28:01] Robbie: I think this one, maybe the 1 percent juice, like it has a tinge more acid. Yeah. Yeah. And it has a lot more aspartame or whatever. Aspartame. That’s

[00:28:16] Chuck: not how it goes. That is how it’s spelled. Aspartame.

[00:28:20] Chuck & Robbie: That’s

[00:28:21] Chuck: how I have said it. Cause it’s funny. yeah. So serious thoughts around the web and knowing your craft and

[00:28:28] Chuck: But since you said the whole thing is going to go away from robots, so maybe we shouldn’t waste our time.

[00:28:33] Chuck: But

[00:28:33] Robbie: I do think that the one thing I can say for sure anything I make a bet on, especially financially, that’s true. Do the opposite

[00:28:40] Chuck: backwards. Yeah. So

[00:28:41] Robbie: probably AI is going to, instead of becoming sentient and taking us out, it’s going to become like take itself out somehow. Like AI will just implode and not be a thing anymore.

[00:28:52] Robbie: And then everyone will have planned on it being a thing and lost all their money.

[00:28:56] Chuck: You know would have protected all of this though if we would have just [00:29:00] Let all of those NFT people have it like if we made web 3 successful and legitimate And we’re

[00:29:07] Robbie: on web 5 now.

[00:29:08] Chuck: We made fun of them and they were like, oh, okay Well, i’m gonna teach the robots to get you fired and now you’re done.

[00:29:15] Chuck: So make fun of me

[00:29:16] Chuck & Robbie: I’m

[00:29:17] Chuck: blockchain

[00:29:17] Robbie: motherfucker. I kind of Love it I don’t know, maybe I’m easy to please, but I liked NFTs and I liked I like a lot of things and I’m like, I get on the hype train and I’m like, let’s go, let’s do more of this, I’m having a fun time, and then everyone loses interest like one day later and it goes away, like Pokemon Go was that way, I loved that there was a game I could play outside but still play a fun game, walk around, like whatever.

[00:29:43] Robbie: And everyone was like all on that for a month and they were like, this sucks. And I’m like, why? Like no one has any attention span, myself included, but like,

[00:29:52] Chuck: but apparently enough for that.

[00:29:54] Robbie: When there’s a thing I like, I, it’s like an ADHD thing too. Or you focus on the thing you like [00:30:00] and that’s all you do.

[00:30:00] Chuck: Right.

[00:30:01] Robbie: I think I definitely have done that. Does

[00:30:03] Chuck: that game still like exist? If other people don’t play, does that somehow take away your joy?

[00:30:09] Robbie: Yes. And this is a weird thing for me. I don’t exactly get why, but it, I guess it’s just something about, like, Like, I don’t necessarily ever need to even play directly with any people.

[00:30:21] Robbie: But the fact that, like, a lot of people do a thing, and I can objectively be like, look, I’m better at the thing. , like playing Diablo, I play, you grind a lot, you get a lot of gear, and you’d be like, look, my character could beat your character. Whether or not we ever actually fight, I just like, it feels like you’re part of a community, you’re like, building a real thing, versus if no one else is playing the game.

[00:30:43] Robbie: It’s like, well, okay, I’m the best at, like, this on my computer, but I never see anyone online. It’s just, it feels arbitrary and dumb and like I shouldn’t do it.

[00:30:53] Chuck: Okay, well,

[00:30:53] Robbie: that’s fair. I was just curious, like,

[00:30:55] Chuck: if you liked the game, you could just keep playing it, right? I mean, it’s possible.

[00:30:59] Robbie: [00:31:00] Yes, it is possible.

[00:31:01] Robbie: But it’s, it’s more fun, Pokemon Go for sure is more fun with more people. Like you go to a park with friends and you all play. And take off and

[00:31:10] Chuck: do that. And that’s like an AR game with your phone, right? Cause you never play it? No.

[00:31:17] Robbie: Uh, yeah, I think it’s only on phone. Yeah. So there’s like pokey stops, which are like places of interest and you like go to those and then every five minutes you can like get loot from it or whatever.

[00:31:27] Robbie: So, and as you’re walking, like the more you walk, the more like Pokemon you encounter. So you just kind of walk in a circle, hit all of the, like the pokey stops around the way. , so like usually parks are a great place. Just walk around and yeah, I mean it

[00:31:41] Chuck: does seem like a fun thing for kids. I get it. And like, My kids like Pokemon, but if it’s just on a phone they don’t have phones.

[00:31:48] Chuck: They’re five and eight That’s that would be ridiculous,

[00:31:50] Robbie: right? I mean they did do a thing to where like I mean by this point I wasn’t playing anymore, but they had like a couple Pokemon games for switch Okay, and you [00:32:00] could transfer like you could catch Pokemon Going and you could transfer them to your game.

[00:32:05] Robbie: I’ll just keep playing.

[00:32:06] Chuck: Okay, that’s interesting

[00:32:07] Robbie: So there’s a lot of cool stuff. It just seems like It all fizzles out like people spend all this time making a really cool thing and it is really cool and does really well and then Like

[00:32:17] Chuck: yeah, I mean, that’s a pretty short life cycle. It was like a one month kind of thing.

[00:32:21] Chuck: I’m exaggerating Yeah, it was probably

[00:32:23] Robbie: more but It wasn’t very long.

[00:32:26] Chuck: Yeah, didn’t feel like long

[00:32:28] Robbie: like I when I find a game I like And it’s a game that has no end and you’re just grinding

[00:32:34] Chuck: right

[00:32:34] Robbie: I could play that You For a decade.

[00:32:37] Chuck: Hmm.

[00:32:38] Robbie: Like

[00:32:38] Chuck: I yeah, I I definitely need some sort of like finality to it so that I can be like I got the trophy I beat it I don’t know

[00:32:47] Robbie: I’m not a completionist.

[00:32:49] Robbie: I’m a Give me a short task. Let me go do it. Give me the dopamine hit. Give me the next one That’s how the games I like like games that have an end like a game with a story

[00:32:59] Robbie: like skyrim I [00:33:00] never play the main quest right? I just do the side quests for those quick little this is fun Oh, I stole a thing. Oh, I did a thieves guild thing.

[00:33:06] Robbie: Oh, i’m not like I need to go Fight this dragon and kill him. I don’t care about that.

[00:33:11] Chuck: Like yeah, that’s true I actually I took that game pretty far. That is one. I did not finish You And like, because I started a bunch of different quests, and what I learned is a bunch of them, you end up getting like a companion.

[00:33:23] Chuck: And if you like, start a few of them, and then all of a sudden there’s like four or five of you walking around, and you can kick anybody’s ass. Because they’re all like You go to fight

[00:33:31] Robbie: the dragon and it’s like

[00:33:32] Chuck: Yeah, it’s just like they do all the work for me. I’m like, oh, I’m happy, you know part. I’m almost a master thief.

[00:33:39] Chuck: Almost a vampire. I’m almost a werewolf or I you know all those things. Yeah, and then you get those people with you Yeah, yeah, that was like a really fun thing and then I did a bunch of stuff and then I was like, oh Now I’m kind of at a point where I have to finish some of these. I don’t think that’s as fun.

[00:33:53] Chuck: I don’t want to lose my people. I’m, I’m, yeah.

[00:33:55] Robbie: I am ready for the next Elder Scrolls whenever that comes out.

[00:33:58] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:33:59] Robbie: They make great [00:34:00] games and it, there’s a lot of like choices to make and like,

[00:34:03] Chuck: yeah, like everything is finals. Yeah.

[00:34:05] Robbie: Like, if you are buddies with the guy who sells the best armor,

[00:34:09] Chuck: Yep.

[00:34:10] Robbie: and you steal something, and the guards come try to attack you, that guy will try to save you, get killed, and you can never buy that armor.

[00:34:18] Robbie: I know, right? And I’m like, Oh, no. Like, wow, this, like, they really went in depth for, like, how this works. Yeah.

[00:34:23] Chuck: Yeah. There’s no take backsies. Let’s say

[00:34:26] Chuck: I recently, finally beat Tears of the Kingdom, the Zelda game, and I was kind of doing that thing like you were saying, there’s so many side quests and things like that, or you have like, goals to get this, you know, different powerful armor, and then you want to upgrade those things, and then you have to go harvest stuff from dragons.

[00:34:43] Chuck: That’s a grind, because you, once you harvest one piece, you have to wait ten actual minutes. To be able to get another piece. Yeah. And so then I was just like riding dragons forever. Can you

[00:34:54] Robbie: reset your system time ten minutes different or something? I don’t think so. Is there a hack?

[00:34:59] Chuck: [00:35:00] I don’t, I don’t, I never found a hack.

[00:35:01] Chuck: I looked a little bit.

[00:35:02] Robbie: Did you ever play Animal Crossing at all? No, not at all. So this is a thing that everyone does in Animal Crossing. You time travel, like, you want a, uh, a Christmas item or something, right? So you go to then, or like, You want a thing that takes three days to grow you just move it three days and go get it like that’s fine Yeah, so you just manipulate the game.

[00:35:22] Robbie: So just

[00:35:23] Chuck: timestamps and then whatever. Yeah, I don’t know I don’t know if that would have been possible But I would basically like ride the dragon because they go in these loops forever, you know, and you’d be like, well It’s like 10 minutes. I can just stand here and Yeah. Even when you go to the, you know, Underworld and all that stuff, you just kinda hang out and I’ll go do a thing.

[00:35:42] Chuck: I come back in ten minutes and I’m like, okay, now it’s time to get another.

[00:35:44] Robbie: Yeah. I mean, it’d be an interesting test. Is like, is it system time based or is there like a timer running in the game that’s like reset?

[00:35:51] Chuck: Right. That’d be some clever stuff. So yeah, I can’t say for sure. Didn’t think about system time.

[00:35:56] Chuck: Yeah. It seems like a big hack.

[00:35:58] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:59] Robbie: Caitlin’s [00:36:00] played animal crossing for years now. So she knows all the things. She has all the fruits, all the

[00:36:04] Chuck: all the animals. I don’t even know the point of it to be honest. I’ve never played it. Never into it. It’s

[00:36:09] Robbie: just, there’s not a huge point. It’s like, get all the, um, what do you call ‘em?

[00:36:15] Robbie: Guess is the wrong word? Inhabitants, I guess. Like they’re animals. Get the ones you want. Yep. ‘cause you can take the ones you don’t like and tell them, like, you know, I think you should move to another island. And they’ll just leave. And then other people will show up and you like, you know, accumulate the ones you like, all the fruits.

[00:36:29] Robbie: Your island only grows one fruit. Hmm. So you have to play online with other people and they give you the other fruits. You can plant them. Then you grow all of them. I see. It’s like a, you know, just getting all the items, getting all the people, like it’s a like. Purely grinding, 100 percent completion kind of game.

[00:36:46] Robbie: I see. Like that way.

[00:36:47] Chuck & Robbie: Yeah.

[00:36:48] Robbie: , the way Caitlin plays it though, she just like really likes designing stuff. Mm. So she like, you can go online and get every pattern. Like people have, there’s like a online store, people will upload stuff. Right. So you can be like, I want, you know, [00:37:00] this carpet. Or like, sometimes they do actual collaborations, like, paid stuff, like, oh, this shirt is like a Todd Snyder shirt, or whatever.

[00:37:08] Robbie: Right,

[00:37:08] Chuck & Robbie: right.

[00:37:09] Robbie: so it’s like, cool stuff like that, you can customize everything, build your buildings the way you want, like, like a, like a life simulator, but cartoony. Yeah, I

[00:37:17] Chuck: guess so. Yeah. The Sims, but more cartoony to a degree, and you don’t have to just like. Less real. Yeah, less real.

[00:37:23] Chuck: A little more fantasy. At least there’s that division there. I never really got the Sims. Like, you know what? I want to like go to work and

[00:37:30] Robbie: buy a house. I, yeah, I don’t understand the actual gameplay. Caitlin plays that too, but does none of the actual gameplay and just builds houses. Okay. So it’s fun for a like House renovation simulator.

[00:37:40] Robbie: Yeah, there you go. That’s the fun way. Yeah.

[00:37:43] Chuck: Yeah. It’s a low, like there’s no risk. I get to redesign my house, but not the real one. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Fair enough. That’s a lot of, uh, what 90 like things, but

[00:37:53] Robbie: Rails or Django?

[00:37:55] Chuck: so I think, I mean, I like Django just because I have a history [00:38:00] with it. I think it’s good at what it does and, and all of that. But, it was developed, you know, primarily for publishing, right? It’s very CMS y, it is like a publishing engine. That’s what it was created for. So there’s that aspect of it and that’s kind of the way I used it.

[00:38:19] Chuck: And Rails is like, build apps with speed. All these things that apps need are batteries included. I like that aspect of it. And I also like having had experience with like Ember, which was influenced by it. And then like, I feel like it’s a familiar vernacular. And I kind of like that. Like ActiveRecord is awesome.

[00:38:40] Chuck: I think it’s great. So. So I guess in this sense, where I’m at now, I would say Rails.

[00:38:46] Chuck & Robbie: Okay.

[00:38:46] Robbie: I don’t know. I need to do more backend. Yeah. And I really, I haven’t made up my mind. I like all the conventions for sure. Yep. as long as it’s fairly batteries included, I don’t know. Yeah. It comes down to the base language’s [00:39:00] syntax.

[00:39:00] Robbie: Like, do you like Python? Do you like PHP? Do you like Ruby? I tend to like PHP the most syntax wise, but maybe just cause I’ve used it more.

[00:39:09] Chuck: Yeah. I don’t feel like you would pick Python out of those. Never,

[00:39:12] Robbie: never Python.

[00:39:13] Chuck: Yeah. So Django

[00:39:15] Robbie: is out for you. NET maybe. Yeah. NET is just a fancier JavaScript.

[00:39:20] Chuck: I was going to say like C sharp does kind of read like TypeScript. So it’s like. Not crazy to go into that. I hear a lot of good things about modern. net, so like that’s interesting. , we seem to trust Microsoft with so much of our life. , you know, our professional life, not my real life.

[00:39:37] Robbie: Well, you’re professional in your play life because they have games and

[00:39:41] Chuck: yeah, PCs

[00:39:41] Robbie: and xboxes,

[00:39:43] Chuck: right?

[00:39:43] Chuck: I yeah, I’ve had one xbox my entire life and it was fun or whatever else. That’s fine. I got the

[00:39:48] Robbie: original xbox

[00:39:49] Chuck: It was yeah, do you remember

[00:39:51] Robbie: those controllers were like this big? Yeah. Yeah, and then they made a way smaller one Like why was the original

[00:39:57] Chuck: so huge? It definitely was like very [00:40:00] thick very bulky I don’t know why I chose that at the time, because I had a PlayStation 1 when they first came out.

[00:40:06] Chuck: I loved that. I think, uh, my brother had a PlayStation 2 or something. That was fine. I didn’t have a gaming system for a while. And then I was like, I want to play FIFA. I want to play soccer games. So it got an xbox for whatever reason

[00:40:20] Robbie: Yeah, kind of if you didn’t want halo. It was kind of like no, why would you choose xbox?

[00:40:25] Robbie: Because everything was on playstation as well. Like all the

[00:40:28] Chuck: yeah, like I used to like need for speed I actually like racing games. I haven’t played them in quite some time, but I liked all of those. I mean like Resident evil and tomb raider is essentially why I bought a playstation to begin with Yeah, I walked in to a gaming store.

[00:40:42] Chuck: I remember I don’t know how old I was must have been like 18 or something maybe at most See, they were playing Resident Evil and it blew my mind. I was like, this is incredible. I bought it on the spot Oh, yeah, like I don’t really have money, but I’m doing this because this is incredible

[00:40:58] Robbie: Yeah, the couple like [00:41:00] the first couple of Resident Evils.

[00:41:01] Chuck: Yeah,

[00:41:01] Robbie: we’re like they were very Scary ish to like, I feel like later on they became more about just a fun game. They weren’t as like

[00:41:12] Chuck: kind of campy later, but initially

[00:41:14] Robbie: they were really more in that horror. I remember watching people play them and like you jump, yeah. Jump all the time. Like, yeah, it was, it was very scary.

[00:41:22] Chuck: Yeah. Very scary.

[00:41:24] Chuck: so yeah, I don’t know. All that is to say is that I’ve, yeah, I’ve been involved with various Microsoft things. I definitely have been a hater many times. I’m like, fuck Windows. Like, no, this is all just too hard all the time. I still don’t think Windows is great, to be honest. Like,

[00:41:39] Robbie: I would not choose it.

[00:41:40] Robbie: They’re trying to force me into doing things I don’t want. Yeah. I have a super expensive Mac Pro.

[00:41:46] Chuck: Mm

[00:41:47] Robbie: hmm. I run Boot Camp on it. That’s how I play my games. Okay. Windows 11 is not compatible with that setup.

[00:41:54] Chuck: Oh.

[00:41:55] Robbie: And, I mean, it kind of Mac. It’s fault too. They’re doing away with bootcamp because you [00:42:00] can’t run it on

[00:42:01] Chuck: , apple silicon.

[00:42:02] Robbie: Yeah, so i’m like You’re really just for like What seems to me basically no reason you’re going to force me to build a gaming computer.

[00:42:12] Chuck & Robbie: Yeah,

[00:42:13] Robbie: just to play games guess the thing that I could do is they are making it more compatible of like You could play a game on your Xbox with people on a PC. So I could just sit out there on my Xbox.

[00:42:24] Robbie: Right, yeah, cross platform

[00:42:25] Chuck: stuff is fun. Yeah, I think that’s cool. And so

[00:42:28] Robbie: maybe that’s the solution, because I would much rather have an Xbox lay on the couch and play than

[00:42:32] Chuck: Yeah, than get a separate computer just for that case. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, I think, uh, you were saying you heard Dax talk about it in Tomorrow FM.

[00:42:42] Chuck: About NVIDIA having kind of like a streaming setup. Yeah, I’m curious about that,

[00:42:47] Robbie: too. Yeah Yeah, you could do that on any like Mac or PC. Yeah, that

[00:42:51] Chuck: would be like anything So if it’s anything like Stadia, I loved Google Stadia had a controller in this like special like fire stick essentially and you didn’t even have to it was [00:43:00] basically a Bluetooth controller though, too So you did that with like a TV, but if you were like on an iPad or a computer or whatever else It’s just a Bluetooth controller.

[00:43:08] Chuck: You can connect that and do that. And it’s streaming games. It was incredible. It was really fun. Like the only downside is you always need an internet connection, so you can’t like play on a flight.

[00:43:19] Robbie: Yeah. I go back and forth on, on that, on technology and everything being like, I miss owning physical things.

[00:43:26] Robbie: Right. And we go back and forth and people remember that’s cool. And we like, You know records are cool again. Yeah, like so we’ve got records and I just pre ordered the remake of the n64 So like if you can play I already have the Super Nintendo version

[00:43:42] Chuck: Yeah,

[00:43:43] Robbie: some and a Game Boy and you know, I’m very into that.

[00:43:46] Robbie: I want like I think that is a great way I feel like my growing up having video games, but not having them connected to the internet

[00:43:55] Chuck & Robbie: Yeah,

[00:43:55] Robbie: it’s the perfect thing because it’s like It’s still really fun. I still get to play [00:44:00] a video game But I don’t have that like it’s not a grindy all the time Yeah online trying to be better than my friends or whatever

[00:44:09] Chuck: Yeah, it’s

[00:44:09] Robbie: just like a game starts and it ends and while that might not be my favorite game today Yeah, I think for kids growing up.

[00:44:17] Robbie: That’s a great way to do it and it’s like So that i’m really gonna i’m gonna let finn play a ton of games, but they’re all are not online Yeah, I see that makes sense I mean, that’s the plan. Of course, he’ll be like, well, my friends are playing Minecraft 45 and I need to like, I want, well,

[00:44:32] Chuck: yeah, yeah. So, you know, it’s, there’s trade offs there.

[00:44:36] Chuck: Well in my day and you end up being that kind of parent and all of that But yeah, I see what you mean where there’s like a closed loop there or actually going back to what you said around You don’t actually own anything like it’s convenience to be able to stream something. I can pick all this music Online through my streaming service.

[00:44:54] Chuck: I can you know the billion Streaming services for entertainment you can find that and games, [00:45:00] similar thing. You go onto Steam or EA.com or whatever else and you buy a game, but they technically you don’t really own it. Right? Like it’s just on that machine and it’s like very locked down and they kind of say you don’t really own it.

[00:45:14] Chuck: That’s the weird thing. I can’t resell it. And I’m, and the problem I have too is that, okay, if it’s going to be this kind of system, when I went to buy a game, it would be 50 or something. And it’s still 50, 60 plus, except for I don’t own it anymore. Like, I can’t be done with it and take it to GameStop and trade it in.

[00:45:34] Chuck: I can’t, like, loan it to my friend, like

[00:45:37] Robbie: That’s a very weird like That I don’t like. If you buy a game from Steam, you pay the full game price, then if you went and bought the disc, you’d pay the same.

[00:45:45] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:45:45] Robbie: But if you If steam went away or you don’t have a steam account, there’s just no way to get it. Yeah,

[00:45:49] Chuck: that’s it.

[00:45:50] Chuck: You’ve lost it so there’s kind of like I hate that

[00:45:52] Robbie: the one I do like is the more like super duper subscription based like the Microsoft Whatever you like 10 bucks a month [00:46:00] 20 bucks a month. Whatever you get every game.

[00:46:01] Chuck: Yeah then that makes more sense

[00:46:04] Robbie: because it’s like I’m not actually paying for the games.

[00:46:07] Robbie: I’m paying for access to the entire library of games. But yeah, when you’re buying one, I do think that’s fucked up that you don’t get to own

[00:46:13] Chuck: it. Yeah, I always wait till they’re on big sales except The soccer ones because FC, it used to be FIFA, now it’s called FC whatever, it’s FC 25 this year and like Seven fucking dollars.

[00:46:24] Chuck: Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that’s what it means. You know, it’s kind of expensive and basically it’s like most of the time It’s a roster update the new jerseys and the new players and for the next year I kind of get that but then if I want the new one next year, I gotta pay 70 again

[00:46:39] Robbie: Yeah, I don’t get game development I get that like engines change and you have to make new games to be on the new engine or like But it seems like there would be a lot of stuff you could repeat use.

[00:46:51] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:46:51] Chuck: definitely there are assets No, I don’t I think they do with these fifa games or whatever sports games

[00:46:57] Robbie: Like ea in general is [00:47:00] notorious for like you know, somebody makes an indie game. They buy that ruin it and like Then a year later rewrite the whole like sims 3 to sims 4 was a complete rewrite and a lot of stuff got way worse

[00:47:13] Chuck: Oh,

[00:47:14] Robbie: I see Like the snow textures there used to be, it looked kind of realistic.

[00:47:18] Robbie: Like snow would fall, it’d be different depths looked like, snow on a bush or whatever. The new one, they just changed the color of the ground to white. There’s no texture at all.

[00:47:30] Chuck: Yeah. Lame.

[00:47:31] Robbie: Like how did we regress? They have a better engine you’re telling me you couldn’t make snow in that.

[00:47:35] Robbie: Like,

[00:47:35] Chuck: yeah, you couldn’t do better than like a handheld game. So

[00:47:38] Robbie: I don’t get how like.

[00:47:40] Chuck: It rushed. We do that.

[00:47:42] Robbie: Maybe it’s just they don’t have time and they got to get it out. Yeah. And maybe we’ll put in better snow later. We don’t know. Yeah.

[00:47:48] Chuck: I mean, I guess that’s like the plus side is that updates are on the fly, right?

[00:47:52] Chuck: Like if you have to do patches, updates, whatever else, you get that on the fly. But I don’t know. the price should reflect [00:48:00] that. I don’t own this. You’re going to do different things. If I pay you 30 bucks a year, can I always have the new version? Like, I don’t know. Maybe I’m okay with that.

[00:48:08] Chuck: You’re releasing

[00:48:09] Robbie: your games

[00:48:10] Chuck: I mean if they have no like resale residual value because I don’t own a thing right like What if they told you every year you got to buy a new guitar? This one just uh stops playing and you can’t do anything with it and sorry But if you want to keep playing guitar like yeah, just pay us every year buy a new one Right, like I don’t know.

[00:48:30] Chuck: It’s It’s a strange model for me, so, Yeah, I don’t know. That was a bit of a rant around that, but like the whole thing where like physical media has really kind of started to go away. Yeah. And nobody owns any media whatsoever and you just pay in perpetuity. What happens when someone

[00:48:48] Robbie: turns the internet off?

[00:48:50] Chuck: Right. Yeah, that’s

[00:48:50] Robbie: it. It’s done. I mean, aside from me not wanting to live anymore, uh.

[00:48:54] Chuck: Yeah, right. You’ll be like, there’s no, yeah. My wife and child aren’t enough. No. This is like, what am I [00:49:00] gonna do with myself? No, I mean it’s You’d have more money for donuts.

[00:49:03] Robbie: Because I’m not paying for internet? That’s

[00:49:05] Chuck: right.

[00:49:07] Chuck: Yeah, which internet price is going up. But,

[00:49:09] Robbie: I wouldn’t have a job. So, Right, there’s

[00:49:13] Chuck: no internet. Or, well, I mean, there were programmers before the internet, and maybe there’ll be programmers after.

[00:49:18] Robbie: Right, yeah. Yeah,

[00:49:19] Chuck: you’d have to adapt, like, you know, you could program robots or some cool shit.

[00:49:22] Robbie: That is, that’s an interesting point.

[00:49:23] Robbie: Hardware does seem fun. If there was a, like, zombie apocalypse,

[00:49:26] Chuck: Yep.

[00:49:27] Robbie: And, you know, there’s a long time of, you’ve gotta kill a lot of the zombies off, re establish society,

[00:49:33] Chuck: Yep.

[00:49:33] Robbie: At which point, would people be like, I could program again. Like, I feel like it’d be a long time before you gave a shit about programming.

[00:49:41] Chuck: Yeah, I think that’s possible. You could get a series like, What’s the Point?

[00:49:45] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah, like, it’s not gonna make you any money to spend two years in a bunker building a video game. And then come out and look, I built a video game! Cool, well, alright. My one friend who’s alive still can play it, or [00:50:00] whatever.

[00:50:01] Robbie: It’s on a

[00:50:01] Chuck: floppy disk, and we have to find a way to load

[00:50:04] Robbie: this. Well, how did you get it on the floppy disk if you don’t have a way to load it? Yeah,

[00:50:09] Chuck: I just have a writer, not a reader. What can I say, you know? Yeah, I couldn’t afford both. I type you here, it goes on, I don’t know from there. Replicator, or something of that nature.

[00:50:19] Chuck: I don’t know how that all worked. I

[00:50:22] Robbie: don’t know.

[00:50:22] Chuck: Uh, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsor, Fresca. Yeah. Sparkling soda water.

[00:50:28] Robbie: Well, both, both Fresca and Coca Cola. Cause this one is Coca Cola. Yeah. And this one is like Fresca mixed spirits company or something.

[00:50:36] Chuck: Yeah. Which I think is interesting to somebody own like the trademark that isn’t Coca Cola and like Coca Cola just distributes this.

[00:50:45] Chuck: We’re heavy into what not land. I think it’s worth asking.

[00:50:49] Robbie: I don’t know. Yeah. I don’t know how this. Fresca mixed spirits.

[00:50:53] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:50:54] Robbie: But I know that Coca Cola is licensing all these names to [00:51:00] alcohol people like the Topo Chico. Yes. Topo Chico is a Coke product,

[00:51:04] Chuck: right? Oh, they are.

[00:51:05] Robbie: Uh huh. Which I didn’t know. I found out, I find out a lot cause that’s, that’s how I got reintroduced to Fresca.

[00:51:11] Robbie: We stayed with Caitlin’s uncle and he worked for Coke. And so there’s just all this stuff. And I was like, Huh, I thought like everything he had at his house was a coke product. That’s weird. She’s a topo. Oh, that’s coke product,

[00:51:22] Chuck: right? Like that’s how you learned. There’s the connection there. Yeah, cuz I was like four brands in the world own everything Nestle and coca cola and like yeah,

[00:51:32] Robbie: and

[00:51:32] Chuck: the waffles we talked about that.

[00:51:33] Chuck: Yeah Yeah, well, there’s a waffle

[00:51:34] Robbie: recall and every single waffle brand was like were recalled Who knew? Yeah. Yeah. I thought Kodiak waffles were special. They had protein. They’re a special company. I’m special. I’m having my healthy waffles.

[00:51:46] Chuck: Did you get them from Costco?

[00:51:48] Robbie: No,

[00:51:48] Chuck: I don’t have a Costco membership.

[00:51:50] Chuck: Wow. How do you even live in this world? You know what I think it is is you have that like tan, special tan toilet paper and they don’t sell it. So you just like, [00:52:00] don’t go there.

[00:52:01] Robbie: No, I, I like Costco. I’ve just never really felt like I want to buy bulk anything. And I get that they’re not all of it is like that huge of quantities and whatever, but I’m just like It’s busy all the time.

[00:52:14] Chuck: It is it’s like don’t go on the weekends. I mean, that’s amateur hour bullshit

[00:52:19] Robbie: Like I I am casually interested in getting a membership, but also My dad has a membership and Caitlin’s parents have a membership. So like when they’re here, we’ll go get some stuff occasionally.

[00:52:31] Chuck: Yeah

[00:52:32] Robbie: Like I got a ton of wine there.

[00:52:34] Robbie: Their wine is really good.

[00:52:35] Chuck: The wine selection is good. They’re like prepared dinners and stuff are pretty good. I mean, the meats are incredible. I mean, you just have to be ready to buy a shit ton of it.

[00:52:43] Robbie: Oh yeah. Yeah. We got a bunch of, uh, sea bass from there. That was like. Way more expensive than I

[00:52:49] Chuck: thought it would be.

[00:52:51] Chuck: Well, online you can get like, you can order Wagyu beef, like A5 Wagyu beef, like a bunch of crazy stuff. Uh, like luxury goods and [00:53:00] shit, like yeah.

[00:53:01] Robbie: I’ve heard they have like, they’ll get like two Gucci bags or something.

[00:53:05] Chuck: Oh yeah? Like they get

[00:53:06] Robbie: random weird designer stuff, I don’t know why.

[00:53:08] Chuck: Yeah, hard to say. But that’s a

[00:53:10] Robbie: thing that like people on TikTok or something, like Costco designer shop, and they’ll be like, Oh, this place has like, you know, two Gucci bags.

[00:53:17] Robbie: This place has some, uh, Some Prada or like whatever like and they just help each other like find all those things and they they resell There

[00:53:27] Chuck: you go. Yeah the turnaround there. I’ve not done that. I bought like tires there before Like replaced

[00:53:33] Robbie: air conditioners.

[00:53:34] Chuck: Yeah, you can do that Actually, we got our garage door through there and you end up with like some 500 Like costco gift card if you do it through them, so I was like that was cool You I got the executive membership, which

[00:53:46] Robbie: only for executives,

[00:53:48] Chuck: you would think, but, uh, I’m an unemployed executive.

[00:53:50] Chuck: So, you know, , but the cool thing about it is like, okay, it’s, I think it’s maybe like double the price or something, a normal membership, but you get cash back from it. [00:54:00] And they guarantee you that if you don’t get enough cash back that equals the membership cost, they just, that’s the minimum. So they cut you the check.

[00:54:08] Chuck: for the membership. Like, okay, it’s 120. If you don’t get enough cash back collected to get yourself at least 120, they just make it that much. So it’s like, kind of pays for itself. It’s like a good way to get you in the door in that way. Gas does not count, but it also has like the best gas prices in town for us, and I don’t know.

[00:54:31] Chuck: I’m a big fan. Yeah. I don’t know, maybe we should try it more. This episode is brought to you by Costco. Kirkland Band. Yeah, the hot dogs are always the same price. 1. 50 forever. Apparently, like, the founder was like, that price will never change.

[00:54:45] Robbie: Yeah, it’s smart. It gets people in.

[00:54:47] Chuck: Gets people in the door. You don’t have to make

[00:54:49] Robbie: money on everything.

[00:54:50] Robbie: No, you don’t. You just make

[00:54:50] Chuck: money on a few things. You don’t get out of that place without spending at least 100. That’s the thing. It’s like, oh, I just need two things. Well, guess what? I’m out. These things are in bulk. You still spend [00:55:00] 100. Good luck, motherfucker.

[00:55:01] Robbie: If I walk through, like, one aisle of snacks, I’m probably getting half the stuff.

[00:55:05] Robbie: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I

[00:55:06] Chuck: bet. I do, the only reason I do kind of like to go in the weekends is I like sample time. And I’ve gone, like, my daughter really likes it. She loves it as a kid. We went to

[00:55:18] Robbie: Sam’s Club, but same

[00:55:19] Chuck: thing. Yeah, same thing. And she’ll, like, get in the cart, and she’ll be like, drive over there. And she, doesn’t eat anything except for Costco samples.

[00:55:27] Chuck: Then she will try everything there.

[00:55:29] Robbie: Have you tried making food at home and like a tiny plastic cup with a little, a fork or whatever so that she can pretend it’s a little paper cup and I just serve her five of those, the finest piece of hot dog. I will

[00:55:45] Chuck: go pretty far to try to get her to eat, but I’m not sure that’s it.

[00:55:48] Chuck: And she doesn’t mind hot dogs. She’ll eat hot dogs. She likes salami sandwiches. Macaroni and cheese, any noodles whatsoever, but plain, no sauces, it’s noodles with butter and cheese on it, that’s it. [00:56:00] Any cheese, she will eat cheese, and then butter and bread, that’s it.

[00:56:04] Robbie: Yeah, I mean that’s still more than Finn’s general diet, but uh, Well,

[00:56:07] Chuck: you know, he’ll get there.

[00:56:08] Robbie: yeah, he loves pouches though, so, still getting vegetables.

[00:56:12] Chuck: Yeah, you like pouches. Belly pouches. Yeah, there you go.

[00:56:17] Robbie: Ooh, I forgot about those donuts in there.

[00:56:19] Chuck: Well, on that note, where are we at? Seems like Robbie’s ready to wrap up. We’re

[00:56:23] Robbie: about there. Well, thanks for

[00:56:25] Chuck: joining us today. Hopefully the

[00:56:27] Robbie: audio continued to work.

[00:56:30] Robbie: I don’t know. It wasn’t as interesting as the last two, but at least as far as you remember, yeah,

[00:56:35] Chuck: you get what you get.

[00:56:36] Robbie: Maybe those were more interesting because I had had a lot of alcohol.

[00:56:38] Chuck: Yeah, it could be. It seems like you seemed really intelligent and, and well spoken last night. I don’t know what happened today, but, uh, well, if you’d like this more casual format where we sit around and talk to each other, , let us know and I will let my wife know and see if she wants to move.

[00:56:54] Robbie: All right. Thanks for listening. Catch you next time. Boom

[00:56:57] Chuck: ba boom ba boom ba boom ba boom ba boom ba [00:57:00] boom ba boom ba boom ba boom ba.

[00:57:02] Outro: You’ve been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Recorded in front of a live studio audience. What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck? Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know, people don’t pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fund for merchant to join our Discord server. I’m serious, it’s like 2% of people who actually click these links. And don’t forget to leave us a five star review and tell your friends about the show. All right, dude, I’m outta here. Still got it.