RobbieTheWagner 
Charles William Carpenter III 
Adam Argyle [00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week’s JS Party. Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. With your hosts, Robbie the Wagner, and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That’s right Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development.
[00:00:27] Intro: I mean, it’s all in the name. It’s not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set.
[00:00:36] Robbie Wagner: Hey, what’s up, everybody getting one more episode in, before Charles William Carpenter II Leaves Town
[00:00:44] Chuck Carpenter: That means I’m dying. Is that weird? Oh, okay.
[00:00:49] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. No, he’s not, he’s not dying.
[00:00:52] Robbie Wagner: Um,
[00:00:52] Chuck Carpenter: we’re all dying. I mean, one, one bit, one day at a time.
[00:00:56] Robbie Wagner: Yes. It’s the speed. The speed is different, but yeah.
[00:00:59] Robbie Wagner: [00:01:00] yeah, we, we thought it seemed like a good day to drink on a Monday. We’ve been having lots of things happening in our lives, which we will get into in a little bit.
[00:01:07] Robbie Wagner: Let’s start with the whiskey, just so that we can go ahead and have some,
[00:01:11] Chuck Carpenter: don’t worry folks, I took my, acid reflux medication before this,
[00:01:16] Chuck Carpenter: um,
[00:01:16] Chuck Carpenter: because, you know, well, I take Prilosec every few weeks. I go through
[00:01:21] Chuck Carpenter: a
[00:01:22] Robbie Wagner: Oh, map
[00:01:22] Chuck Carpenter: ‘cause that.
[00:01:23] Chuck Carpenter: Omni, Omni, Omni, funny that I have had to buy acid reflux stuff in Italy before living there. Yeah. Anyway, uh, that’s a whole other story for just later.
[00:01:36] Chuck Carpenter: I’ll bore you in a moment. we’re had a, we’re having the Catoctin Catoctin Creek.
[00:01:41] Chuck Carpenter: Uh,
[00:01:41] Robbie Wagner: Oh, I thought we were having the Riten house.
[00:01:44] Chuck Carpenter: No, that’s why you put Rittenhouse in. And I was like, no, I’ll get the other two. Rittenhouse is easy.
[00:01:48] Robbie Wagner: well then BRB.
[00:01:51] Chuck Carpenter: All right. He’s gonna go get that. Uh, but I will go ahead and say it. I thought I was doing this for him as a, favor.
[00:01:57] Chuck Carpenter: So this is a Virginia rye whiskey, [00:02:00] proof, 100% rye mash. It is not age stated. Apparently. There, I’m guessing it’s around two years. ‘cause that’s the minimum. And then they have a distillers, cut version that is 92 proof and that one is four years. But this is not that one. This is like more their standard one.
[00:02:17] Chuck Carpenter: For me personally, this is a coming back around to this distiller. I have tried their, um, have a single malt, I believe that was a little odd. anyway, that’s all there is about that. And Robbie is still getting his and
[00:02:32] Chuck Carpenter: he
[00:02:32] Chuck Carpenter: has
[00:02:32] Robbie Wagner: do not have a single malt. They make only rise. The one we had of theirs was, uh, the hot honey one. Do you remember that one?
[00:02:38] Chuck Carpenter: No, I don’t,
[00:02:39] Robbie Wagner: It tasted just like hot honey. It was super weird.
[00:02:42] Chuck Carpenter: Oh, okay. Yeah, I had something else of theirs and I could have sworn it was like something weird, like, uh, I don’t know. Anyway. Oh, maybe I’m thinking there’s like a, it’s copper something.
[00:02:53] Chuck Carpenter: No.
[00:02:53] Robbie Wagner: Yes. Copper fox or something.
[00:02:55] Chuck Carpenter: Yes, that’s what I’m thinking of. Okay. So I’ve confused that. I don’t remember if I’ve had [00:03:00] this before, but I kill many brain cells.
[00:03:01] Chuck Carpenter: So, and I cannot find any whiskey glasses because anyone who’s followed knows that I am constantly in flux and recording somewhere else at all times. Currently in Tucson, Arizona, in a middle area before moving overseas.
[00:03:18] Chuck Carpenter: also, how are you supposed to like, temper your pores if you put it in a coffee cup? Just
[00:03:24] Chuck Carpenter: not
[00:03:24] Robbie Wagner: You just fill it up.
[00:03:25] Chuck Carpenter: here. Yeah, you just fill it up. I mean, that’s maybe what we feel like doing
[00:03:29] Robbie Wagner: I mean, you don’t have to work tomorrow. It’s okay.
[00:03:31] Chuck Carpenter: right. It’s a Monday, I don’t have to work. Somebody’s got a case of the Mondays and I’m gonna say it’s me.
[00:03:39] Chuck Carpenter: I always, I, I do feel like Monday is my least productive day of the week. we always start out with like planning meetings every other week’s, like demos and then you have meeting, meeting meetings. And then it’s like, and I inevitably, like just before this I was messing up configurations in SST. [00:04:00] Dax.
[00:04:00] Chuck Carpenter: He made it
[00:04:00] Chuck Carpenter: fucking
[00:04:01] Robbie Wagner: Made it too hard. Yeah.
[00:04:02] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, he made it much harder. He was like, people seem to be able to use this. How can I make it harder?
[00:04:07] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. People like when they’re trying to use AWS when they, they don’t understand how to do it. So that’s, that’s what they’re going for.
[00:04:13] Chuck Carpenter: yeah.
[00:04:14] Robbie Wagner: this smells like cherry to me.
[00:04:16] Chuck Carpenter: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:04:18] Chuck Carpenter: Holy crap. I was just about to say, I’m getting that on the flavor
[00:04:21] Chuck Carpenter: profile
[00:04:21] Chuck Carpenter: initially.
[00:04:22] Robbie Wagner: me, lemme try some.
[00:04:23] Chuck Carpenter: You know, a little bit of that upfront, slight bit of like cinnamon. Real mild though, for a ride in particular. I know it’s only 80 proof, but still,
[00:04:30] Robbie Wagner: Oh yeah. It’s got a lot going on.
[00:04:33] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, like maybe even a little clove in there.
[00:04:36] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:38] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, definitely some on the nose. Not any burn, but it’s a lower proof. Hmm. I’m gonna give her another, another swig. her why do I genderize alcohol? All I respect its privacy. Um,
[00:04:51] Robbie Wagner: maybe, maybe a little bit of licoricey. yeah. Some kind of like old candy for sure.
[00:04:58] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Maybe you like, like [00:05:00] you also, ‘cause I tend to like star of a niece, clove, licoricey. They all kind of like fall into a similar bucket for me. Yeah. So maybe, you know, it’s kind of hard to differentiate. And on that finish there, I almost get a like. Almost like a light molasses and then leather.
[00:05:17] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:18] Chuck Carpenter: a lot going on here. I gotta say Virginia. How
[00:05:21] Chuck Carpenter: about
[00:05:21] Robbie Wagner: Perceval, Virginia.
[00:05:23] Chuck Carpenter: Per of
[00:05:24] Chuck Carpenter: all.
[00:05:24] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Right next to Middleburg. It was like very close to us and I tried to do a barrel pick with them ‘cause I was like, it’s basically the most local distiller we could do it with. And they were like, uh, LOL. Everyone’s already picked all the barrels, so No.
[00:05:40] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. You need a broker to do that stuff. Nobody’s gonna do it directly with you. Unfortunately. I feel like those programs are gone to the
[00:05:48] Robbie Wagner: Well once I’m a big deal they will be like, Hey, can we do a bear with you? And I’ll be like, absolutely not.
[00:05:53] Chuck Carpenter: when you buy HashiCorp.
[00:05:56] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Well that’s IBM beat me to that, but
[00:05:59] Chuck Carpenter: Right. [00:06:00] Yeah. So you’re probably not getting in there. Alright, well I’m gonna go ahead and explain to you a very complicated concept and then I’m gonna see, you know, if you’re able to work within those constraints.
[00:06:10] Robbie Wagner: Okay.
[00:06:10] Chuck Carpenter: We have a highly technical rating system here on Whiskey Web and whatnot.
[00:06:14] Chuck Carpenter: It is zero to eight tentacles, zero being horrible. Spit it out, throw it down the drain. I don’t know what, what’s the worst that wouldn’t clean my toilet with it? Four is not bad. Have it again. Not really seeking it out. Nothing bad to say though, per se. And then you have eight clear the shelves the most amazing in this expression I have ever had.
[00:06:38] Chuck Carpenter: Is that all? Should I say it again or did you think you got it?
[00:06:42] Robbie Wagner: I think I understand.
[00:06:43] Robbie Wagner: I am going to say just right at six, I was thinking about maybe like a six and a half. I think about it. Six. It’s, it’s pretty good. Would definitely drink it again. Would buy it again, but it’s, there’s a little bit of extra harshness on the finish [00:07:00] that I don’t love, but, all the other flavors are really good.
[00:07:03] Robbie Wagner: So yeah, six six seems appropriate.
[00:07:06] Chuck Carpenter: Okay. So I think this is like 45, 50 bucks in that range. It might be a little more for me just ‘cause I’m on the other side of the country. I think for that and a low proof it, that might be a little much, a little bit of an edge on it. I saw online, I think it’s supposed to be more around 40, 45 for, for most, at least on the East Coast.
[00:07:26] Chuck Carpenter: I’m sure you don’t remember it was just sitting on your shelf for a little while.
[00:07:29] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.
[00:07:30] Chuck Carpenter: said, I think it has some very interesting flavors. It’s an easy sipper, but you know, I like some hug so it only being 80 proof. I’d be interested in trying the 92. Definitely think that might be more interesting for me.
[00:07:43] Chuck Carpenter: This might make some very interesting cocktails, like a simple one like a Manhattan, or I might even see what, um, Sach it might do with that and then kind of step into a Manhattan to give it a little extra oomph. But given that I meant [00:08:00] more like a five, I think it’s like above average, it’s interesting for the price, I would probably pick something else up.
[00:08:06] Chuck Carpenter: Uh, I definitely would pick a sagamore up before this one, uh, range as like a straight sipper. So yeah, I feel pretty good. I think this is a five
[00:08:14] Robbie Wagner: Okay. That’s reasonable.
[00:08:15] Robbie Wagner: So
[00:08:17] Chuck Carpenter: hot takes.
[00:08:18] Chuck Carpenter: No, I’m just kidding.
[00:08:20] Robbie Wagner: yeah. I don’t know where, where we wanna start with our, uh, our lives falling apart, but like, yeah. I just wanted to do slightly less serious first about just like,
[00:08:29] Robbie Wagner: I feel I’ve been the most domesticated, uh, I’ve ever been,
[00:08:33] Robbie Wagner: like the past couple days. I, like today I woke up, I cleaned up all the stuff in the house ‘cause we had maids coming, so we had to pick everything up.
[00:08:42] Robbie Wagner: I watched it. Yeah. I, yeah, I watched, uh, the kids for a little while, then worked all day. Then after work, went outside with Finn, mowed the lawn, came in, made chicken and dumplings for dinner, and, gave the twins baths and like, I just feel like I’ve been doing [00:09:00] all this stuff and like,
[00:09:01] Chuck Carpenter: What the hell has your wife been doing this whole time? She on vacation or?
[00:09:04] Robbie Wagner: no, no. I mean, uh, she’s been like hanging out with Finn and like, I don’t know. It’s, it’s hard with, with the three of them. but yeah, so I’ve been, yeah, doing all of that and then like, it just seems like nothing goes right, like, always, always too busy, can’t get anything done correctly, but then you’re like, Hey, at least you have a kitchen.
[00:09:28] Robbie Wagner: Like,
[00:09:28] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, I was gonna say there is a bright side to it. You have a house and a kitchen. I technically don’t have either of those things.
[00:09:34] Robbie Wagner: Do you have a sink? I saw there’s a sink in
[00:09:35] Robbie Wagner: the
[00:09:35] Chuck Carpenter: there is a sink that’s working, I will say. So,
[00:09:39] Chuck Carpenter: you had a very busy and productive day. That is great. I’ve been busy in many ways. In many of the ways it feels like I take a step forward and two back.
[00:09:49] Chuck Carpenter: So pipe bursts a couple of weeks ago. Okay, there’s a plumber, comes, breaks open a wall. There’s obviously water damage. A remediation team comes through, [00:10:00] homeowners insurance gets involved. Short version is they take out. All the cabinets and half half of the floor. So you don’t really have a working kitchen to a degree.
[00:10:11] Chuck Carpenter: I guess the, you know, the stove is hooked up, but like the living room is full of all the kitchen stuff and in bags and boxes that you gotta find.
[00:10:19] Chuck Carpenter: That’s not even the worst of it, I don’t think, because I’m like, well, this is inconvenient, but whatever else. Being the amateur plumber that I am, there was like a slight drip coming out of the hot water pipe where the valve, shutoff valve is under the sink and you’ve got your, normally that would hook up to a, uh, which we don’t get to have right now either.
[00:10:41] Chuck Carpenter: but those things were like the dishwasher and. Parts of the cabinets and drawers that they could save for rebuild, that was all pushed in this closet where the hot water heater is. This is where it gets fun. so it’s like the weekends wife and kids are out. I’m gonna watch a soccer game and I’m like, oh, I’m gonna, I’m gonna tinker away and I’m [00:11:00] gonna just fix that little link over there.
[00:11:01] Chuck Carpenter: I’m gonna go just wrench on it a little bit. And, what happens is, so it’s a shutoff valve with like a compression connection on there. And I’m trying to twist the one part, and it’s not really, you know, it’s not really stopping the drip. So I try the other part and somehow I pop the compression valve off and then hot water starts shooting out onto my body.
[00:11:29] Chuck Carpenter: I have a, I have. A one gallon bucket available to me and water is just constantly shooting out, and it’s very hot, by the way, so there’s no like, try to put this back on out, burn my hand. Also, I put the bucket there, that fills up in less than 10 seconds every single time. So I’m fast dumping that. And remember, closet is full. So the claw, I’m like, move a drawer. Go fill the, uh, uh, dump the bucket ‘cause it’s just there.
[00:11:57] Chuck Carpenter: And then move another drawer, dump the bucket. [00:12:00] It’s still getting on the floor. It’s still getting all over me. And I’m like, ah, fuck, nobody’s here. What am I supposed to do? I hope the valve is there that I can use.
[00:12:08] Chuck Carpenter: So I’m back and forth, move the dishwasher and get to the valve. And that stops the waterfall. I mean, it’s still, so gravity in a full tank is still kind of like dripping it out, but I’ve got a lot more time than 10 seconds at this point. I find every single towel in the house, the house being a three bedroom in a triplex that we’re staying in right now, and just try to recover my hopes and dreams.
[00:12:36] Chuck Carpenter: this then moves on to a couple of, uh, trips to the hardware store with pictures on my phone and being like, big dummy. What, how I fix And, uh. Second time finally got it fixed with a new compression thing. But I, I think I counted, there were 22 towels I had to put down to try and dry all of this up and, you know, and, and then the, my funny [00:13:00] mother-in-law was like, he should get a bigger bucket.
[00:13:02] Chuck Carpenter: Like, it’s over now. I don’t need a bigger bucket. That’s solved my problem. But thank
[00:13:09] Chuck Carpenter: you.
[00:13:09] Chuck Carpenter: So this episode is brought to you by h or I only have your sticker right now. Couldn’t find your cup.
[00:13:16] Robbie Wagner: Oh man. That was an entertaining story.
[00:13:20] Chuck Carpenter: I mean, I was so on it. I mean, a, uh, hot water burn, burn, Charlie, you know, I don’t know, hot, hot water burning me and trying to dump it out quick and having to dig out a closet to get to the shutoff valve was just like, how?
[00:13:36] Chuck Carpenter: A comedy of errors for sure. How does this happen? I don’t know. This has nothing to do with, uh, web development, but boy is life interesting.
[00:13:46] Chuck Carpenter: Don’t envy me kids. That’s all I gotta say. I’m drinking a coffee cup full of whiskey and it’s Meredith.
[00:13:52] Chuck Carpenter: I
[00:13:54] Robbie Wagner: Oh, boy.
[00:13:55] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, in the tech world, if anyone is here for that,
[00:13:59] Chuck Carpenter: by the way, we [00:14:00] are gonna talk tech a little bit.
[00:14:01] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, there were a few things in the news this week, that I thought were interesting. the first, so, I’m gonna caveat both of these with saying all I’ve done is read like a tweet or two, so I’m not super informed on what happened, but we can still, we can speculate.
[00:14:15] Robbie Wagner: one was like the maintainer of stylists was like, Hey, this was flagged as like a malicious package and it’s like been unpublished and, you know, all of these problems on NPM trying to just like ping people from Microsoft or NPM or anybody they could on like, I don’t know if anyone was responding to them or not.
[00:14:36] Robbie Wagner: I think other people were pinging people they knew from those companies, like adding everybody in there. the problem was not just that people couldn’t use stylus, which is, um, I believe, is it a like c, s, s and JS thing or I’ve,
[00:14:48] Robbie Wagner: I’m
[00:14:48] Chuck Carpenter: I believe so, yes. I never used it, but heard of it. I believe it is that though.
[00:14:53] Robbie Wagner: yeah. But it was like, it’s a, you know, dev dependency or dependency on a lot of [00:15:00] things that you need to like, build, like whether your styles are working or not, or you’re using it directly for your styles. It’s like a dependency on other packages, so then everyone’s builds on like everything we’re failing because stylists couldn’t, couldn’t run.
[00:15:13] Robbie Wagner: so it’s like, I mean, it’s not as bad as like the left pad incident, but it’s like
[00:15:18] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:19] Robbie Wagner: pretty similar. It’s like the, you know, the fragility of everything is an NPM and whenever they decide on a whim, they want to like pull something they can, so yeah.
[00:15:30] Chuck Carpenter: It’s an interesting look at
[00:15:33] Chuck Carpenter: remote dependencies for private business and the house of cards that potentially could break those things either. On purpose or not because like the third example is like faker js. The guy was like basically had a nervous breakdown and decided fuck the world and you know, pulled his stuff, which kind of has the same effect.
[00:15:58] Chuck Carpenter: It’s like you’re [00:16:00] trusting that everybody follows this whole like social construct within developer open source world, but it’s all like, you know, to the goodwill of people and you can have a bad actor in that, on purpose or not. ‘cause this is a not on purpose situation, which is strange other than someone maybe decided to maliciously flag this thing just to be a jerk or they didn’t like someone.
[00:16:24] Chuck Carpenter: And then there are ripple effects there. So it’s kind of funny when you think about it I’m, I was thinking about this from the perspective. I’ve thought about it a couple of different times just ‘cause I’m going through like security scans on, dependencies looking for like SOC two compliance stuff and
[00:16:41] Chuck Carpenter: Right.
[00:16:41] Chuck Carpenter: And so you’re like, oh, okay, this thing has this problem and oh, this thing has this problem and they haven’t updated it in two years, so probably nothing’s gonna happen there. And I remember David Kramer saying, I can’t remember if it was a tweet or he just sat it talking to us, but like how he would take [00:17:00] dependencies and just copy them in and never be like remotely installing and like play plan this game.
[00:17:05] Chuck Carpenter: Instead, it’d be like, I want to use that. I’m just copying it into my thing. You can leave attribution and everything else there, but you’re never sort of like in this go get thing, build cycle and it’s just all in your own code, which I think isn’t an interesting prospect to like eliminate that.
[00:17:24] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s compelling. It’s like, it’s more cumbersome. But I think, I was just thinking about while you were talking, you know, everything has a license. Like most of them being MIT,
[00:17:34] Robbie Wagner: everything has like versions, a change log that you can trust or not. And like, uh, you know, maybe they’re doing siver, right?
[00:17:40] Robbie Wagner: Maybe they’re not. And we all kind of just assume that if the license is compatible with whatever we’re shipping and the siver is not breaking, it’s fine to use
[00:17:52] Robbie Wagner: and nothing is stopping anybody from. things wrong. there’s an MIT license there, right? [00:18:00] Okay. So it’s free for everybody, they can’t take it back.
[00:18:02] Robbie Wagner: what if they do? Or what if they publish something malicious, like you’re not gonna be able to sue them. ’ the license is like, it’s free. We all love each other. Like,
[00:18:11] Robbie Wagner: so you can’t be like, Hey guy that like publishes free software for no thanks at all.
[00:18:17] Chuck Carpenter: yeah,
[00:18:18] Robbie Wagner: you can’t do that.
[00:18:20] Robbie Wagner: Uh, yeah, I can. Like, what, what’s stopping me? Are you gonna sue me? Like, is, is that, does that hold up in court? Like, what is your recourse when like, things like
[00:18:28] Robbie Wagner: this go wrong?
[00:18:29] Chuck Carpenter: because I think it’s really like, licensing I think is really very one directional, which is, I made this thing, I’m putting it out there. If you choose to use it, I won’t sue you. That’s it. If I change my mind at any point, you can’t sue me. I gave it to you. And now I changed my mind. There’s no contract.
[00:18:49] Chuck Carpenter: It’s, it’s one direction. I accept that if you use my thing, we’re cool. But the inverse is like, I’m done with this. Well, what the hell? We want more free work. No, hire [00:19:00] me. It’s not a bad strategy. Actually, if you think about it, I’m so valuable to you. Just bring me in house.
[00:19:05] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I think it’s like, it’s interesting how many things we kind of like falsely think there is any security on. you know, everyone, we’ve been having a lot of trouble with insurance recently and like, does insurance.
[00:19:18] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah,
[00:19:19] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,
[00:19:19] Robbie Wagner: Does anyone ever like, have a good story about insurance? Like, oh, my insurance agent was so responsive and they paid for my whole house.
[00:19:27] Robbie Wagner: Like, you know, maybe occasionally that happens, but usually they’re like, there’s this little clause right here and, okay, sorry. Go ahead.
[00:19:34] Chuck Carpenter: no, go ahead. I I just wanted to raise my hand for when, when it’s next. You know, I, I’m working on meeting etiquette, so.
[00:19:40] Robbie Wagner: Oh, okay. yeah, no, I was just saying like, I think usually insurance fucks you more than like helps you and
[00:19:47] Robbie Wagner: it’s like there’s no guarantees there.
[00:19:49] Chuck Carpenter: I think across the board they definitely have a reputation of trying to minimize their support and maximize their fees and they wanna [00:20:00] keep the money for as long as possible.
[00:20:01] Chuck Carpenter: I think that’s the case across the board. I think health insurance is like the biggest
[00:20:06] Robbie Wagner: Oh yeah.
[00:20:07] Chuck Carpenter: culprit there around that.
[00:20:08] Chuck Carpenter: It’s like you pay, I mean
[00:20:09] Robbie Wagner: sponsored by, granted, a problem with your health insurance. They can maybe fix it. We can get into that later.
[00:20:16] Chuck Carpenter: Well I will say Traveler’s Insurance, this episode is brought to you by Traveler’s Insurance. They haven’t fucked me and they already wrote me a check. So good for you guys. Yeah, the adjuster showed up, she took measurements, went around, we’d already begun like plumbing and remediation work and she was like, this all looks great.
[00:20:32] Chuck Carpenter: I’ll go ahead and send you a check and uh, if you need more, let me know. And I won’t give her name because they’ll probably fire her.
[00:20:39] Chuck Carpenter: Because she’s doing such a good job for us and not for them.
[00:20:42] Chuck Carpenter: so yeah, that’s been kind of a pleasant, I, I gotta say in all of this, unpleasantness, my biggest problem is that the workers and the companies can’t seem to do what they say in a timeline that is reasonable.
[00:20:54] Chuck Carpenter: And I am leaving the country in less than two weeks, so
[00:20:57] Chuck Carpenter: that’d be
[00:20:57] Robbie Wagner: the case with all like [00:21:00] house building, plumbing, electrical, anything like that. They’re like, oh yeah, I can, it’s, well, you know, we, we would also maybe sometimes do it, it’s any contractor is like, yes, I will take every single job, but they actually, they don’t have time for every single job, but they don’t wanna say no.
[00:21:16] Robbie Wagner: So they’re like, yes. And then they try to fit it in and it’s weeks before they come out and like, yeah,
[00:21:22] Robbie Wagner: it’s
[00:21:22] Chuck Carpenter: We should do a show about this at some point in running a services business because capacity management is really hard. It’s really hard to manage and predict capacity and have employees when you’re at the whim of current and possible contracts and what you will do and say sometimes to sort of ride that line to do well.
[00:21:44] Chuck Carpenter: And it’s not because you want to be a giant liar and say yes to everything, a percentage of the, like a quarter of the time at least. You don’t even want to do that stuff, but you think it’s the right thing to do by your company and employees and you know, your stable of contractors and all of those things.[00:22:00]
[00:22:00] Chuck Carpenter: I think that’s a worthwhile thing to say out loud.
[00:22:04] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:04] Chuck Carpenter: there’s, there’s many companies that we know of, peers I would say that will just blatantly say yes to everything and figure it out before the contract starts, get it signed. Now plug in the holes. Who do we know that can do cobalt? You know, go find a cobalt person.
[00:22:22] Chuck Carpenter: Who do we know
[00:22:22] Chuck Carpenter: that
[00:22:23] Robbie Wagner: Frequently, it’s like
[00:22:24] Chuck Carpenter: it
[00:22:25] Chuck Carpenter: ended
[00:22:25] Robbie Wagner: we’ll be bidding against someone, you know, or whatever. And like they go with the other company because they, whatever reasons, and then we end up getting it under them, like subcontracting with them.
[00:22:37] Chuck Carpenter: Right. There’s some, there’s been that, there’s been companies that will play, the low rate minimal margin game and try to skate through that. Like you want a better margin so that you can ride it out through the low times. If your margin is low and you’re paying all of the people that you’re contracting.
[00:22:57] Chuck Carpenter: Real skinned wages and skin is [00:23:00] subjective because nobody’s like working at the seven 11 and then like jumping on a contract of course. But like, you know, if you’re only able to get, if you’re a working full-time contractor and you’re only able to get work that amounts to six to nine months out of the year because there’s a marketing aspect, there’s lull in between and whatever else, and you’re getting really a low standard wage in between those things, that’s pretty tough.
[00:23:24] Chuck Carpenter: But then who you’re subcontracting for, you are beholden to, but as soon as you get a better offer, you are definitely jumping ships. So you’re, you’re definitely like, you know, there’s a balance there. And I always felt like if we paid better, we would have a, a better stable of folks who are loyal to us.
[00:23:43] Chuck Carpenter: So, but ultimately, if we don’t have the contracts to offer, we will not win in the end.
[00:23:48] Chuck Carpenter: So lessons
[00:23:49] Robbie Wagner: This episode is sponsored by procurement. Do AI having problems getting hired at different places? ‘cause they have procurement with only like Accenture use [00:24:00] procurement.ai. It might exist one day.
[00:24:02] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. It might like become fake Accenture or fake like giant. Yeah. That you have to like tuck under to get work, because they won’t accept someone without $45 million in insurance coverage, but very bad processes. And super low rates. Yeah. And a margin of $5, but they’re playing the volume game. So there’s that.
[00:24:23] Chuck Carpenter: Anyway, that’s boring
[00:24:24] Robbie Wagner: is, is doing well, so
[00:24:26] Robbie Wagner: it’s fine.
[00:24:26] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Well, yeah, the big consultancies seem to work it out. And what is funny is I’ve never been part of a company that has had engagement with any of like, let’s say, the big five consultancies and they’ve never walked away being like, I’m really glad we did that.
[00:24:43] Chuck Carpenter: And it cost quarter, a quarter of a million dollars.
[00:24:45] Chuck Carpenter: You
[00:24:46] Chuck Carpenter: know,
[00:24:46] Robbie Wagner: I mean, it, it probably costs more than that. You can’t get them to walk in the door for less than a million.
[00:24:50] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. Probably did. Yeah. So I don’t know, I guess this is the business of the web, right? Like how, I was just thinking like, how does this relate to web [00:25:00] development? well, I think in that sense, there’s a business aspect to it.
[00:25:03] Chuck Carpenter: You know, if I could just host a website on my Mac Mini here and have a business, that’d be cool, but it’s not the
[00:25:13] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, you can do that. Uh, apple does that.
[00:25:16] Chuck Carpenter: Mm.
[00:25:16] Chuck Carpenter: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:16] Robbie Wagner: A lot of their, uh, really important services are on Mac Minis under desks.
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[00:25:55] Chuck Carpenter: We’ve had an inside source, so we make the joke, but that has actually happened with some [00:26:00] stuff. Yeah.
[00:26:00] Robbie Wagner: we would always joke like when I forget what things we would use, but, you know, some internal service would go down and be like, oh, somebody tripped over the power cord again.
[00:26:09] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Yeah. But that’s, yeah. I think you’ve just outage yourself. Your NDAs are like triggering right now. Um, I
[00:26:16] Chuck Carpenter: don’t think there’s a statute of limitations.
[00:26:18] Robbie Wagner: I’m not saying anything about the services or what they were like. It was all internal stuff and I’m, I’m, I don’t even remember what it was. I just like,
[00:26:26] Chuck Carpenter: Right.
[00:26:27] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.
[00:26:27] Robbie Wagner: funny that it runs on a Mac Mini.
[00:26:29] Chuck Carpenter: I, I think that’s a testament to the Mc Minney and like, uh, of horsepower in small things. DH has been talking about that a lot lately about, I mean, he keeps buying machines and makes me want to buy things, and then I have to remember that I have never run an F1 race, so I probably can’t afford to follow his hobby in the same way.
[00:26:46] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. You’ve never been on Lex Friedman’s podcast or,
[00:26:51] Chuck Carpenter: well, yeah, we all know that’s never happening. Like, and that’s okay, you know, not that I’m expecting that, but, uh, it would be interesting. here’s a [00:27:00] guy with a okay career, but he is not that famous, or at all. I’m not famous to anyone, but my son, by the way, like, people know who you are, dad, and I’m like a very small subset of people.
[00:27:10] Chuck Carpenter: Do know who
[00:27:10] Chuck Carpenter: I
[00:27:10] Chuck Carpenter: am.
[00:27:11] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. But every once in a while someone shows up and knows who we are and it feels nice.
[00:27:15] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, there, there’s a thing. So internet celebrity in our
[00:27:19] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Like I was in the, uh, Ember Discord the other day, like talking with, uh, Nova about something
[00:27:26] Chuck Carpenter: discord server.
[00:27:29] Robbie Wagner: some guy like jumps in and is like, oh, I was talking about like Big Sky, I think, and like how I had to do some stuff for my talk or whatever. And he was like, wait, I thought you were ember ride or die.
[00:27:39] Robbie Wagner: Like you’re, uh, you’re going to h TMX comp. I was like, it’s, they actually do other stuff there too. It’s not just HT MX Comp. But yeah, he was a, a fan and was like, oh, I hope you guys like get back to recording episode soon and don’t have to do reruns anymore.
[00:27:53] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Listen, HTMX is the, and you’re like, I’m trying to find a reliable replacement. You know, you know anyone, [00:28:00] um. I don’t know what Adam Adam’s deal is. Uh, he doesn’t have a job. why can’t you do this every week?
[00:28:07] Robbie Wagner: Oh, Adam probably could if I gave him more notice.
[00:28:10] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.
[00:28:11] Chuck Carpenter: That’s a you problem. I
[00:28:12] Chuck Carpenter: get
[00:28:12] Chuck Carpenter: it.
[00:28:12] Robbie Wagner: yeah, cause I had type craft lined up to guest host, last week. I don’t, yeah. And he had like, too much going on and so he bailed then I was like, Hey Adam, it’s like four hours until podcast time. Would you like to do this today?
[00:28:27] Robbie Wagner: And
[00:28:28] Chuck Carpenter: with an amber person that you don’t
[00:28:29] Robbie Wagner: yeah. And he is like, um, yeah, I’m like, solo dad today and I don’t have any whiskey with me, so no. And I was like, okay. But yeah, I think if I gave him notice, he’d do it.
[00:28:39] Chuck Carpenter: that’s an amateur move though. You don’t have a flasco whiskey on you at all times. I’ve got an iPhone, some portable mics and a flasco whiskey. Let’s see if we can make this happen. you know what I will commit to doing? Some sort of like whiskey web and whatnot, on the move or in the wild or [00:29:00] something.
[00:29:00] Chuck Carpenter: Like I’ll go to a park with those things and see what happens. That might be funny.
[00:29:04] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.
[00:29:05] Chuck Carpenter: Wait, is this a way that I can buy a drone? Hmm. Anyway.
[00:29:09] Robbie Wagner: It’s also much, uh, more acceptable to just drink whiskey in a park in Italy than it is here.
[00:29:15] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yes and no. Yeah. I mean, in Europe, like public consumption isn’t that big of a deal ‘cause they don’t have like raging alcoholism. But, uh,
[00:29:24] Robbie Wagner: But you’re gonna bring it
[00:29:25] Robbie Wagner: there?
[00:29:26] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. I’m gonna, I’m gonna introduce some. Yeah. Because drinking culture in Italy is like real minimal. Like I don’t, maybe it’s the people I know, I’m not sure, but I’m like, really?
[00:29:37] Chuck Carpenter: Amazed at like, you guys have incredible wine, and you’re like lucky to have a glass. Or like, you’ll go to a gathering and they’ll put like one or two liters of beer out for everyone. I’m like, what the fuck? I thought this one was for me. What? No. Okay.
[00:29:54] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I
[00:29:55] Robbie Wagner: don’t know. I mean, I guess it’s not as like, celebrated maybe as it is here. And it’s [00:30:00] also like, ’ cause I think there’s something about, you know, you have to be 21 to drink that makes it like, oh, it’s forbidden before I’m 21, so I’m gonna do it because it’s fun and like it, we put it on a pedestal,
[00:30:11] Robbie Wagner: like in, in, uh, you know, Europe, they’re like, oh, you’re like 10.
[00:30:14] Robbie Wagner: Have some wine with dinner.
[00:30:15] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Have a little sip that way. It’s not like this thing. Well, they, they’re the same with nudity too. Like
[00:30:21] Robbie Wagner: yeah.
[00:30:22] Chuck Carpenter: kind of like, oh is not some crazy thing. You must be 17 to see boobies. know, like So I don’t know. Yeah, it’s like a whole taboo thing. I think there is a relation there. I will, uh, I’ll have to report back
[00:30:37] Robbie Wagner: Speaking of seeing boobies. Um, the other tech topic I have on here was the, uh, the data leak from TI don’t know how much you saw about that, but it was, I think, basically hosted on a, like completely unprotected like Firebase instance or something.
[00:30:58] Chuck Carpenter: Oh yeah, I guess that’s what [00:31:00] it, okay. Yeah. ‘cause I was thinking about that makes sense. It was, uh, Firebase and whatever the version of S3 is for GCP, I guess, or, would be basically where that bucket was completely public so you could scrape and download everything. So yeah, your assets bucket that’s related to that was just set on star.
[00:31:22] Chuck Carpenter: Like access was just star. You can access
[00:31:25] Chuck Carpenter: everything. And uh, yeah. So vibe coded. I think this comes
[00:31:29] Robbie Wagner: Probably vibe coated. Yeah.
[00:31:30] Chuck Carpenter: well, let’s just say it wasn’t actually, ‘cause I don’t think that that’s, it’s the joke because of what’s happening right now. But I think that if you were to say, do a startup as a non-tech founder, and you were to find folks that maybe were the cheapest to get your thing going, this is a possibility.
[00:31:50] Chuck Carpenter: It’s a hypothetical, and it’s not kind of like shade to the people. I think it’s like shade to the person of like, I’m going to release this to the public without, covering my bases. They made me a thing, maybe they made [00:32:00] a thing that was like a POC and never intended to be out in the wild at all.
[00:32:04] Chuck Carpenter: Who knows? Myriad of things could have happened there. But the point being is that like you roll through something on fire base, you get it working, you fail. Cool. and then you made it public and started getting lo uh, users, losers. Wow. There’s a, that was a Freudian slip if you ever saw one, but, um, I mean, whatever.
[00:32:24] Chuck Carpenter: No, no, uh, no judgment on people that kind of try to get gossip, get the tea, was a term that I just learned. but anyway, all of that aside, this could happen in lots of ways. And it doesn’t mean it was just like some vibe, no-code app with a product owner who made this possibly. But it also could happen a lot of different ways.
[00:32:45] Chuck Carpenter: And it’s just like people are more and more naive and now they have an outlet to even get it cheaper and push things through. So at the end of the day, like security is a problem on the web and it’s becoming more so, and it’s not just [00:33:00] you or I getting phished through emails. It’s not just someone at the front desk getting social engineered, like there’s a ton of back doors there that a lot of people, it’s almost like bizarro open source.
[00:33:13] Chuck Carpenter: There’s a lot of people who know things about computers and they know where the vulnerabilities are, but they’re like good citizens and they don’t fuck with it. But as more and more people become computer and internet illiterate, ‘cause it’s just gonna become more pervasive through the world, you’re gonna have people start to push buttons and now the risk is higher.
[00:33:34] Chuck Carpenter: And I think that’s exactly what that is.
[00:33:36] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, someone had, I forget the entire, like, text of the tweet, but it was to, to the effect of like, this is the underbelly of the internet and it was showing just like requests to their website and it was people trying like. Slash admin slash like SQL dump slash like you’re just like trying to find all the things people might put there and you just run bots on everything.
[00:33:59] Robbie Wagner: And I [00:34:00] think the problem is when you have an app like TEA where everyone is like, it’s in the news. Like a lot of people either hate it or just like it’s newsworthy so they want to fuck with it. But like because it’s there and like prominent, you’re gonna get more people seeing, Hey, what could I do on here to like grab all the data and like just make it public.
[00:34:19] Robbie Wagner: So they were bound to find some sort of vulnerability at some point?
[00:34:23] Chuck Carpenter: I am pretty sure you could vibe code a pen test AI app.
[00:34:28] Chuck Carpenter: And that would like do common vulnerabilities like, you know, the old school WP admin kind of thing. default passwords across, across the board like that. If it doesn’t exist, it should, and by the way, I will accept a 10%, you know, idea fee. this is IP right now, me saying it online? Yeah. I think you’re gonna have people exposing common vulnerabilities because the knowledge becomes more pervasive now. The barriers to entry are getting [00:35:00] smaller and smaller because you can now ask a computer to do these things rather than, I’ve gotta go on a forum and learn and like get in into the groups to kind of like start to learn what these things are all about.
[00:35:12] Chuck Carpenter: No, you know, now it’s, now it’s just out there.
[00:35:15] Robbie Wagner: And AI is always right. So if it tells you a thing that is a vulnerability, you can, you can bet it’s correct.
[00:35:20] Chuck Carpenter: You can try it. You certainly can try it. Just like with the code it gives you, you can try it, don’t push it to production, but you can definitely try it and then you can say, I got this feedback. Uh, it didn’t work out so well.
[00:35:32] Chuck Carpenter: What else do you got?
[00:35:33] Robbie Wagner: I still have not had like a successful. Hey, Mr. Ai, could you build me a thing?
[00:35:40] Robbie Wagner: But like, it’s very good at planning stuff
[00:35:44] Robbie Wagner: and making you think it understands, but then when you’re like, okay, you clearly understand how this should work, can you implement it? It’s like, no, me, no code.
[00:35:52] Chuck Carpenter: Interesting. Well, let me just say this.
[00:35:55] Chuck Carpenter: So. Recently was [00:36:00] experiencing, some connection pooling issues. Connection pools from a serverless application. Now we know serverless is a bunch of separate functions. You can’t have a shared client instance, which makes pooling very difficult, kind of fine when you don’t have users, but when you scale up, the users starts to be a problem.
[00:36:17] Chuck Carpenter: So you gotta think about that. middleware or something else that starts to have a singular client is what you think about. know about this being solved through things like superb base. Like, oh, you just go through superb base and superb base solves that issue for you.
[00:36:34] Chuck Carpenter: So serverless application is all fine, but we know a lot of these companies are utilizing AWS tooling to put together their solutions. So you’re like, what exists there? That is kind of the basis of what this could be, even if you gotta kind of write something in between. So for Postgres, it’s RDS and RDS has a proxy.
[00:36:56] Chuck Carpenter: A proxy basically ends up being your client. So every other route [00:37:00] is a function. Function connects to your singular client, and client can pull up as you want. Oh, super cool. I discovered this utilizing ai. I, I’m trying to remember, I think I might have done this one and I was planning, I like to plan and with Claude direct. And then I play around with a lot of models in Windsurf when I’m implementing. So I think I got the plan through this, through Claude and then I said, great, I’m gonna go over to Claude code. You know, ‘cause I wanna placate it to its own friend, even though I’m gonna use whatever model I want. Give me a prompt that starts me out with the same progress we’ve already made in our plan.
[00:37:41] Chuck Carpenter: It did that. I go to windsurf, put that in and start kind of messing around. I think I told it I want to use some infrastructure as clo as code went with SST version three because it’s TypeScript, so work for the team. They all know TypeScript. Nobody wants to learn yml, so let’s make that easy.
[00:37:59] Chuck Carpenter: And [00:38:00] yeah, just kind of like worked back and forth through this, through using SST to set up this infrastructure for me and to eventually provide me with a database URL that I could plug in as a for sell environment variable, which would in turn give me my fun middleware. So I’m gonna say that that’s a successful endeavor working through ai.
[00:38:24] Robbie Wagner: was it just copy pastable though, or was it, did it get some things wrong and you had to like fix it? Because that’s my, like, I never get a thing that just works. Like I had it write tests for Shepherd and it was like, oh, cool, Cyprus, I know Cyprus, like do this stuff. And it like was making up like selectors to select and like stuff that wouldn’t pass as a test.
[00:38:45] Robbie Wagner: But I was like, I see what you meant to do, so let me like change it. And it had like the structure, right? But it was not like a passing test, you know what I mean?
[00:38:53] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Well I think you gotta think about the source of the information though, a little bit too. So I didn’t, haven’t done that with Cyprus, but [00:39:00] playwright has an MCP and you can, put prompts in to have it hit. playwright docs specifically for some information and context in your thread. so CPS work in that way to kind of draw your context.
[00:39:15] Chuck Carpenter: Like, I don’t want your training data, I want you to use this specific
[00:39:21] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:22] Chuck Carpenter: information, so that helps a little bit.
[00:39:24] Chuck Carpenter: I didn’t do that with SST. I’m pretty sure they don’t have an MCP, but maybe I’m wrong. yeah, so the question was, was it copy paste? No, absolutely not. Every step was analyzing, reading the code and accepting bits and then saying, that didn’t work.
[00:39:42] Chuck Carpenter: Here’s the error, error message. Oh, I see what I did wrong. Like, yeah, there’s tons of iteration, no doubt about that. but it is a good working partner. Like
[00:39:52] Robbie Wagner: Totally.
[00:39:53] Chuck Carpenter: I do think it’s a good pair programming partner and ultimately. I think it makes it more [00:40:00] efficient than just like, read the fucking manual, right?
[00:40:03] Chuck Carpenter: Go over here, read it, figure out how to apply it. Like it’s, it’s definitely like Dax won’t pair a program with me. This is probably the next best thing.
[00:40:13] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have been using it a lot for that, like just needing an answer to a thing and I can’t be bothered to like Google or look for it directly in the docs. I’m like, I know you can find it in a second. I don’t need to look through the docs
[00:40:26] Chuck Carpenter: Exactly. It’s efficient, it’s super fast. You can feed it A PDF or I used it this weekend to try to figure out my plumbing solutions. I took some pictures, I uploaded those and I said, okay, this doesn’t have threads. This is what happened. What can I do to basically plug this thing and have a shutoff valve and it pointed me in the right direction.
[00:40:48] Chuck Carpenter: clues there along the way. I do think that.
[00:40:52] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, for sure. It’s getting there. yeah, I think the whole thing about like replacing everyone has been greatly exaggerated. I think it’s just [00:41:00] replacing the ways we used to work. It’s not like it’s never gonna be just perfect.
[00:41:05] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. I think there’s a gap, an interesting gap there in like for us, we’re experienced, it’s a great tool. We know how to ask the right questions, right? It’s always been the thing about like, I don’t know, what I think makes me a senior engineer, isn’t that I know everything. It’s just that I know how to find the answers.
[00:41:22] Chuck Carpenter: I still think that’s true. I think this is another thing where like I know when it’s giving me bullshit. I know when we’re on the right path and I know how to, like, let’s work together to figure it out. And when I see what is maybe a good answer and try it and then I know, let me give you this ‘cause that’s gonna help you take the next step.
[00:41:41] Chuck Carpenter: It’s the same thing I would personally follow. It’s just probably faster. But I do wonder like someone coming into the field today, I think it’s been a very effective disruptor. You You cannot go to a bootcamp and learn, react and get this job. You can’t,
[00:41:56] Robbie Wagner: Yep.
[00:41:57] Chuck Carpenter: I mean, maybe you can in a very small subset [00:42:00] where you are fighting against 2000 other people who meet that criteria, where that used to be a bigger leap.
[00:42:06] Chuck Carpenter: And so I don’t know what that path is, but I think it’s narrowed the field. So we need to have people who can learn to get to this point. I just don’t know what that looks like yet.
[00:42:16] Robbie Wagner: I mean, it kind of incentivizes you to not do deep learning and makes you lazy. So it’s like if you weren’t already experienced,
[00:42:25] Robbie Wagner: then it, yeah, you’re kind of screwed.
[00:42:27] Chuck Carpenter: You are gonna take the answer and trust it and you’re gonna go down a path that is not pretty,
[00:42:32] Chuck Carpenter: I think, and I think, there you go. That is the security vulnerability of tea. That’s how it goes. Like you brought a team in that you thought would make you a thing and you,
[00:42:41] Chuck Carpenter: you go through your acceptance criteria, you do the thing and it, oh, covered my bases.
[00:42:46] Chuck Carpenter: And I remember this, you know, that product person remembers at company X, Y, Z, we had to have a photo ID and that verified that like their profile picture and them are the same and awesome, and that we don’t delete [00:43:00] any data.
[00:43:01] Chuck Carpenter: Although most companies, DHH said this too, 5% of companies, even when you say delete my data, do not.
[00:43:09] Chuck Carpenter: You know why they try to scrub PII, but they want behaviors and they use that over time to learn. I’m gonna say that’s true. I’ve been a few places and many places do not delete everything. So whatever they tell you in the contract about delete and whatever else, they are being very specific.
[00:43:30] Chuck Carpenter: They will delete whatever connects to you. They’ll try. At least that’s their, their intention. I do believe that. But everything else about what you ever did over the last X number of years, you use that tool. They kept it
[00:43:47] Chuck Carpenter: a hundred percent.
[00:43:48] Robbie Wagner: Yep. Yeah, I don’t think that anyone, like, unless there’s threat of a lawsuit or like direct punishment is like, okay, yeah, I will actually like hard delete [00:44:00] everything. They’re like, yeah, okay, I did it. But they don’t, yeah, they don’t really
[00:44:03] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, soft, delete, scrub. PII, soft delete. That’s what happens. That’s just assumed.
[00:44:09] Chuck Carpenter: I have introduced the concept of soft delete to some companies before when you’re working with them in the early stage and they’re like, I don’t know, they said delete, but then someone said, I don’t want to delete everything.
[00:44:21] Chuck Carpenter: I’m like, yeah, because soft delete is the standard.
[00:44:24] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. But that, what makes that hard is, uh, when you support both,
[00:44:29] Robbie Wagner: because we had, not personal identifiable, whatever, like it was just like, you know. Yeah, yeah. No, I’m like saying like, it was podcast stuff at Art 19. Like you could delete, you could soft delete or, or actually delete an episode.
[00:44:43] Chuck Carpenter: Adam,
[00:44:44] Chuck Carpenter: uh, delete that part because he just called out a specific company and I don’t wanna get sued.
[00:44:51] Robbie Wagner: no, it’s, it’s okay. I’m just saying like, it’s a general concept. Like I don’t think it’s a bad, I’m just saying that like, if you can soft delete or hard [00:45:00] delete the same entity in your, you know, your model of, of type episode, then
[00:45:04] Chuck Carpenter: Yep.
[00:45:06] Robbie Wagner: okay, well I’m trying to build a list of like deleted episodes.
[00:45:09] Robbie Wagner: Okay, well I need to now do ones that are actually deleted and ones that are like soft deleted. And then like, when is it allowed to be hard deleted and when is it allowed to be soft deleted? And it’s like, well, if you have some listens, then you can’t hard delete it because those have to go into your like, listens data
[00:45:24] Robbie Wagner: and like different stuff and like,
[00:45:27] Chuck Carpenter: that’s a valid use case actually. I think that’s a very valid use case. And again, like the intentions are, are good and there’s no PII, well, I mean, I guess there is in the content, but like, I get that right, like, because. Probably as a show host, you want all the data. You don’t want, you know, even if you’re like, oh, whatever happened and I had to get rid of this, and you know, people can’t listen to it anymore.
[00:45:58] Chuck Carpenter: I still want [00:46:00] those listens,
[00:46:01] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Like if that episode had a million listens and your show had, you know, 5 million listens total and you delete it and you then have 4 million listens, like
[00:46:11] Chuck Carpenter: that’s a big hit. And you had to delete it because a threat of a lawsuit, but like, no lawsuit happens. No, like further things then, you know. All good. Yeah. That’s a great use case.
[00:46:23] Robbie Wagner: The whole like tracking listens for podcast thing is, is a, a scam in, in general.
[00:46:29] Robbie Wagner: it’s
[00:46:29] Robbie Wagner: like I mean, they have the, like IABV 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, I dunno something. Point two. and it’s like this, you know, entity says what a listen is, but it’s like, I think it’s still more of just like a download or like, like, Spotify is trying to change the, nomenclature to be like stream or like, play or like, not like download.
[00:46:55] Chuck Carpenter: Which I think is more accurate
[00:46:56] Chuck Carpenter: because
[00:46:57] Robbie Wagner: yeah, if people download an episode [00:47:00] a bunch, but never listen to it, then it’s not popular. Like they just happen to download it. They just didn’t listen.
[00:47:06] Chuck Carpenter: and and there’s, when you subscribe and you like, automatically you can set it up at least in Apple Podcast, I believe. like I’ll have downloaded episodes that I’m like, I didn’t ask for this. I just, subscribed to the show and it just downloads the latest one. And I don’t know if that’s a setting
[00:47:22] Chuck Carpenter: or
[00:47:22] Robbie Wagner: It used to download all of them. If you followed a show, it downloaded every episode they ever had,
[00:47:28] Chuck Carpenter: Right. And you’re like,
[00:47:29] Chuck Carpenter: I don’t want a ball.
[00:47:30] Robbie Wagner: which is why we used to have a lot more listens than we do now, because it was like, anytime someone subscribed, it would just be like, anyway,
[00:47:39] Chuck Carpenter: It’s why you’re trying to find a, a less handsome ho co-host. I understand.
[00:47:44] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, well, we’re gonna do a live show at, uh, big Sky. I’m still trying to, I haven’t had time to really think about a format, so if you have anything in mind that could be fun, let me know. But I’m kind of, I think it was between something with all s like a [00:48:00] Malort, MCP and Montana or something, and then like.
[00:48:06] Chuck Carpenter: Oh,
[00:48:07] Robbie Wagner: Or I think this would be fun ‘cause it’s gonna be a type craft and prime, theoretically, if Prime is still down to do it. I was gonna sit between them and do it, between two mustaches
[00:48:18] Chuck Carpenter: Mm.
[00:48:19] Chuck Carpenter: Now that would be good. That would be good. And then you have to make mallor part of it or something. But, uh, Prime MCing or
[00:48:26] Chuck Carpenter: no?
[00:48:26] Robbie Wagner: he is so, he’s like, he’s down to podcast, but he doesn’t know if he’s gonna be like insanely busy, which he probably will. But,
[00:48:34] Chuck Carpenter: we can talk offline about that. I have opinions, but, uh, my Lord is gross. you have to fly. Are you fly fishing while you’re up there, or No?
[00:48:43] Robbie Wagner: I’m not gonna be there for long at all. Like, I’m going Friday, uh, 6:00 AM and then coming back, I think Sunday at like 6:00 AM or something. So,
[00:48:52] Chuck Carpenter: All right. So basically, nah,
[00:48:55] Robbie Wagner: yeah.
[00:48:55] Chuck Carpenter: you’ll do the after thing and still be drunk on your flight the next morning. So.
[00:48:59] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. [00:49:00] Yeah. I mean, Ken Wheeler will be there, so I know there will be more drinking than I would like to. Like there to be.
[00:49:06] Chuck Carpenter: Ken does like to fish, but I should talk to him anyway. okay. Well, yeah, I’ll, I’ll ponder that. I feel like I was gonna say something. Fly fishing and duh, duh. There’s no, what is the f? Alcohol? Hm
[00:49:19] Robbie Wagner: Mm. Yeah. Fireball
[00:49:21] Chuck Carpenter: Fireball. Fly fishing and,
[00:49:23] Chuck Carpenter: uh,
[00:49:24] Robbie Wagner: for JavaScript.
[00:49:26] Chuck Carpenter: firewalls. I don’t know.
[00:49:27] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.
[00:49:29] Chuck Carpenter: Cool. Well, uh, one, let’s see here.
[00:49:31] Chuck Carpenter: Your lawn sucks. Nobody cares. You’ve got more paternity leave. That’ll be fine. I’m going to Italy soon. Nobody feels sorry for me, even though my life is in shambles.
[00:49:43] Robbie Wagner: Hey, at least you’re getting to go soon.
[00:49:45] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, I, I’m, I’m going, regardless whether they approve my visa or not, I’m just going on the 90 days and engaging a lawyer, so
[00:49:51] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,
[00:49:52] Chuck Carpenter: You
[00:49:52] Chuck Carpenter: know, I
[00:49:53] Chuck Carpenter: don’t have
[00:49:53] Chuck Carpenter: a house,
[00:49:54] Robbie Wagner: in 90 days.
[00:49:56] Chuck Carpenter: or staying illegally. We’ll see how that goes. Yeah, nobody listens [00:50:00] there.
[00:50:00] Robbie Wagner: Do they have an alligator Alcatraz there?
[00:50:02] Chuck Carpenter: I hope so. That’d be amazing. Alligator’s not bad. I had an alligator po boy. I’ll eat you motherfuckers. what was the other thing?
[00:50:09] Chuck Carpenter: Oh, okay. So I have played a little bit of Jedi survivor, the second one. So fall in order was the first one. I don’t remember. The second one is, I like story games. I have my gaming set up for on the road, that game is pretty awesome and super fun. So I don’t know if you’ve done any gaming lately. My
[00:50:29] Chuck Carpenter: son
[00:50:29] Chuck Carpenter: got a
[00:50:30] Robbie Wagner: done
[00:50:31] Chuck Carpenter: but there’s like two games.
[00:50:32] Robbie Wagner: actually,
[00:50:32] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.
[00:50:33] Robbie Wagner: because, um. Destiny to, like, I’ve probably talked about it before, but I used to play it,
[00:50:39] Robbie Wagner: , kind of stop playing it. ‘cause it’s like a grindy, like you kind of have to play it all the time kind of
[00:50:44] Robbie Wagner: thing. And like, And
[00:50:45] Robbie Wagner: a new expansion comes out and Yeah. And then like your level is too low and you’ve got like, you basically have to play it lot.
[00:50:51] Robbie Wagner: it was 10 years of the game, I think. So like, they’re now on like, Hey, we’re just going to reset everybody to like really low [00:51:00] level. Every like, gameplay is gonna be kind of different, like, new start for everybody’s like, all right, this is a good time for me to start again.
[00:51:06] Robbie Wagner: So I’ve been playing that for like, the past few weeks, like every night. But like, I’m so tired, I’ll start playing at like nine and by like nine 30 I’ll be like asleep and I’ll like wake up to like. It’s like your controller’s disconnected, you were kicked outta the game. Like, ‘cause I just fell asleep playing.
[00:51:25] Robbie Wagner: But then what’s funny is half the time I’ll actually beat the mission. So I come back to play like the next day and I’m like, wow, I like slept through the last three minutes of this mission somehow and like beat it still. Like, um, so that’s been fun. but yeah, it’s, it’s still, it’s like probably my favorite, one of my favorite games for sure.
[00:51:44] Robbie Wagner: But,
[00:51:44] Robbie Wagner: it’s a, it’s a commitment though.
[00:51:46] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, you love that. I, I like finality. I do like to like work through a story. I want it to be movie like where I get to do things. I like Jedi stories. Yeah. So I’m gonna say the [00:52:00] latest fallen order, which I think came out two years ago and I bought it whenever it was on sale. And I’ve actually like worked through it, these last couple of weeks.
[00:52:08] Chuck Carpenter: ‘cause I’ve just had a few days where I’m like, I don’t wanna watch shows. I don’t want to do anything. I wanna completely disconnect and I wanna play this game and just have some wins and.
[00:52:19] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.
[00:52:20] Chuck Carpenter: It is a cool game and fun. There’s an Indiana Jones one that’s more recent too, that I’ve heard is great, but I gotta wait for a sale.
[00:52:28] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. There’s too many games and like I just don’t care that much because if I can’t even play tears of the Kingdom, then I’m like, the bar is pretty low to where like,
[00:52:39] Chuck Carpenter: IW well, well that’s the funny thing is that I owned a switch for I think like eight years and I played a little bit of fifa, a bit of FIFA on it, probably a lot in the first couple of years. And I played, I bought it for Breath of the Wild [00:53:00] and then I kept it ‘cause I almost sold it for tears of the Kingdom.
[00:53:04] Chuck Carpenter: And then once I finally finished that, I finally just got rid of it. I was like, we don’t need another one. My son has one, we’re fine. He has a switch too now that has like two games on it. Okay, enjoy that.
[00:53:15] Chuck Carpenter: But uh.
[00:53:16] Robbie Wagner: Kart and Donkey Kong.
[00:53:17] Chuck Carpenter: Yep. Yeah, that’s it. And you can play your old games, but I don’t know, whatever. all that is to say is that tears of kingdom worth it
[00:53:25] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Oh, I know. It’s just like, I think that requires even more of a like. Time commitment than, or maybe it doesn’t like, but the way I wanna play it, the way I wanna play it, I want to be able to play it like several hours a day, really immerse myself in the gameplay and the story and stuff. And yeah, I, I can play it for like maybe 30 minutes here or there, so it’s like
[00:53:48] Chuck Carpenter: breath of the wild. When I had an infant was like the thing, I’d play it for 30 minutes, put it down, oh, it’s a few hours later now I’m feeding the baby. I’m also kind of playing or, or he just fell asleep and you know, [00:54:00] played a little, yeah. I don’t know. I teach their own.
[00:54:03] Robbie Wagner: yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, I, it’s hard, like, you know, like you said, I love the grindy stuff. I think it’s, I was, I always, think I have undiagnosed A DHD I watch all these videos of people that talk about like how to cope with a DH, adhd, and they’re like, you know, make a list of like, write every single thing you’ve ever had to do or thought about or.
[00:54:24] Robbie Wagner: Every thought you have, write it all down and then like
[00:54:28] Robbie Wagner: put it into like small things that you can just be like, literally, like I took this like can, and threw it away and then like check that off. Like the, like dopamine hit of like, it has to be small. Like
[00:54:40] Robbie Wagner: that’s why I like these games. ‘cause it’s like, go here, do that.
[00:54:43] Robbie Wagner: And I’m like, fuck Yeah. Like I’m gonna go there and do like,
[00:54:47] Chuck Carpenter: Maybe you should get, you know, they have the walkthrough books, like physical books that you can buy, and maybe you need to just get that and then as you do each thing or each mission, you can just be like, boom. Because that’s what my son got. ‘cause I, [00:55:00] I, I wish I had it. ‘cause every once in a while I get stuck and I go online.
[00:55:03] Chuck Carpenter: I’m like, how do I do this? Like, fuck this. I don’t have time to figure it out. And then my son, when he was playing them, he just got a book. He just got a giant walkthrough book and
[00:55:12] Chuck Carpenter: I
[00:55:12] Robbie Wagner: I had those when I was a kid. Like for playing a of time
[00:55:16] Robbie Wagner: and
[00:55:16] Chuck Carpenter: Yes, yes. I thought those were great. So he got that and he just was like, great. I follow it.
[00:55:20] Chuck Carpenter: I did the thing. Maybe you need that.
[00:55:22] Robbie Wagner: That is true. I think that it, even if you don’t use that all the time, it gets you over the hump of if you’re like, I’m kind of stuck and it’s making me not love this game right now. You just read how to do that part and then you can get back into the groove.
[00:55:35] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. There you go. Fun facts.
[00:55:37] Robbie Wagner: Cool. We are about at time.
[00:55:39] Chuck Carpenter: Is there anything I wanna plug? anagram security.com because I need my company to blow up so I can buy a villa right next to George Clooney if you support that goal. anagram security.com.
[00:55:52] Chuck Carpenter: Because
[00:55:53] Robbie Wagner: it to
[00:55:54] Chuck Carpenter: se
[00:55:55] Robbie Wagner: and
[00:55:56] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. You know what’s expensive, anagram ai [00:56:00] anyway, uh, that’s why it’s anagram security.com.
[00:56:03] Chuck Carpenter: You gotta like work your way up, you know, we’re in the grind, bro.
[00:56:06] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.
[00:56:07] Robbie Wagner: Well, by the time you can shorten it to a.com, that’s when you know you’ve made it.
[00:56:11] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Hell yeah. We won’t be talking anymore. I’ll be off the planet. I live in Mars with Elon and uh, yeah, I don’t know, sorry for earth
[00:56:21] Robbie Wagner: yeah. Thanks everyone for listening. If you liked it, subscribe and we will catch you next time.
[00:56:26] Chuck Carpenter: boom. Two.
[00:56:32] Outro: You’ve been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Recorded in front of a live studio audience. What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck? Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know, people don’t pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fund for merchant to join our Discord server. I’m serious, it’s like 2% of people who actually click these links. And don’t forget to leave us a five star review and tell your friends about the show. All right, dude, I’m outta here. [00:57:00] Still got it.