226: A Very Merry Descent Into Holiday Madness

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week’s JS Party. Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. With your hosts, Robbie the Wagner, and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That’s right Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development.

[00:00:27] Intro: I mean, it’s all in the name. It’s not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set.

[00:00:36] Robbie Wagner: Hey, what’s up everybody? This is Whiskey Web and whatnot with your hosts, Robbie, the Wagner, and Adam Thomas Argyle, the nerd.

[00:00:45] Adam Argyle: What’s up y’all?

[00:00:47] Robbie Wagner: The band is back together. It’s been a little bit, been, uh, gone our separate ways a bit. , Had a whole bunch of episodes live at all Things Open and, uh, you’ve been traveling a bunch.

[00:00:58] Adam Argyle: Those were good episodes. It [00:01:00] was really weird when I was like, oh look, a new episode of Whiskey Web and whatnot’s out on my podcast. And I was like, oh wait, I already watched this. I watched it live. Oh,

[00:01:07] Robbie Wagner: Yep.

[00:01:07] Adam Argyle: and so I didn’t make it through the episodes. I was like, I already heard these

[00:01:11] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, yeah. For the few people that, uh, that watch live , they’re like, Hey, are you guys posting these twice? And I’m like, no, it’s just live. And then like, usually it’s titled the same thing, so it looks like we’ve posted it twice, which maybe we should change the title or put like, live in the live ones or something, I don’t know.

[00:01:30] Robbie Wagner: But.

[00:01:30] Adam Argyle: I dunno. And it worked. They were good episodes. Jason was great. Jason, shout out to your, uh, co emceeing skills. They were great.

[00:01:37] Robbie Wagner: yeah, well, a couple Jasons, I guess, ,

[00:01:39] Robbie Wagner: Jason Langsdorf

[00:01:40] Adam Argyle: Yeah, one of ‘em was a

[00:01:41] Robbie Wagner: Torres and, uh, Nick Taylor all helped me out with hosting. So thank you to all of you gentlemen. oh, and Taylor Deon, I guess was also, I, it was more Jason. Jason took it over from him. So,

[00:01:53] Adam Argyle: awesome.

[00:01:54] Robbie Wagner: yeah. Anyway, this episode is sponsored by Ali’s stress gummies.

[00:01:59] Adam Argyle: [00:02:00] Oh,

[00:02:00] Robbie Wagner: it’s not really, but that is what I am mainlining these days. And with that in mind, let’s get some whiskey out.

[00:02:07] Adam Argyle: Let’s get some whiskey out. Oh, you kind of remind me of a stress dough. I saw that when I was looking, uh, through products. Oh, ooh,

[00:02:15] Robbie Wagner: Got my Flaviar Whiskey Advent calendar, not sponsored by Flaviar. Please sponsor us next time and send us these. it’s very cool though. There’s, it’s like they have a different theme every year, and so this one is like airlines, so they gave you like a passport and like a boarding pass and stuff and like all this

[00:02:35] Robbie Wagner: info.

[00:02:36] Adam Argyle: at all the cute stuff you get for drinking whiskey. Well, cool. So who’s gonna stamp you? You just stamp yourself.

[00:02:42] Robbie Wagner: I guess I think you’re, there’s like a QR code to scan and I think you’re supposed to like do tasting notes in the app and stuff. And I’m gonna skip that for today.

[00:02:50] Adam Argyle: Oh. Oh. If you’re

[00:02:51] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, there’s a QR code right here, so, yeah,

[00:02:55] Robbie Wagner: let’s see. This is, I guess this one doesn’t tell you. [00:03:00] Yeah, I’m probably doing it wrong.

[00:03:01] Robbie Wagner: You’re supposed to try it first before looking at this booklet that tells you what it’s,

[00:03:06] Adam Argyle: Well that reminds me, I gotta tell you about some of the blind tastings that I keep doing over here at my house. They’re so funny. , We all suck so bad. I’m getting a little better, but it’s cheating. Like I’ve had half the bottle or whatever by the time people come over, but who these, it’s really fun.

[00:03:19] Adam Argyle: People are like, I bet I could guess that expensive one. And you’re like, no,

[00:03:22] Adam Argyle: No, you won’t. But

[00:03:24] Robbie Wagner: All right. You got a toast for us.

[00:03:26] Adam Argyle: I do. And so, yeah. And I’ve got Jack Daniels here, was a single barrel rye. Some sort of reserve. And then yes, here is our, it’s, it’s cold, it’s winter. , So I wanted to make a quick toast to the human blanket. Raise your glass to the night where dignity froze and personal space died. A quick death.

[00:03:44] Adam Argyle: Here’s to the huddle, to the awkward knees and backs the chatter of teeth in the silent agreement that staying alive was worth the invasion of privacy. We were a tangled mess, but we were a warm mess. Here’s to body heat, to survival, and to the best damn heating system. I know you, [00:04:00] Robbie, our cuddling as we cuddled to stay alive.

[00:04:03] Adam Argyle: One frozen night.

[00:04:05] Robbie Wagner: Cheers.

[00:04:07] Adam Argyle: Cheers. Ooh, a lot of red in this one. I like the color. Ooh, spicy. Hello,

[00:04:13] Robbie Wagner: Ooh, mine is also spicy. Ooh. A lot of licorice, a lot of bitterness.

[00:04:19] Adam Argyle: LA la Licorice. That sounds like a band name. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay,

[00:04:24] Robbie Wagner: A little bit of, um, all spice perhaps. , Yeah, let me look up what this one actually is. Let’s see. This is the bhakta, golden Age Blend, limited edition release.

[00:04:38] Adam Argyle: Ooh,

[00:04:39] Robbie Wagner: Wi Rye, whiskey, calvados, and arm. Magna. I don’t know, I don’t pronounce

[00:04:44] Robbie Wagner: words.

[00:04:45] Robbie Wagner: It’s

[00:04:45] Adam Argyle: a lot of big ass words, man.

[00:04:47] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, seems exclusive. A 1928 vintage of Armac, whatever that is.

[00:04:54] Robbie Wagner: Chuck would know what this stuff is probably, but I don’t.

[00:04:57] Adam Argyle: he’s in a different time zone. Makes it hard. He’s sleeping right [00:05:00] now. Chuck, I hope you’re having sweet dreams right now. I hope you’re cuddling somebody through that cold night.

[00:05:04] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Grab that human blanket.

[00:05:08] Adam Argyle: Well, mine’s just a ripe fruit mingled with light toasted oak notes. So it’s a single barrel Tennessee rye, by Jack Daniels. It’s okay. Definitely spice a lingering finish.

[00:05:18] Adam Argyle: Sure.

[00:05:19] Robbie Wagner: This says I’m supposed to taste stone fruit and pears. I’m not getting that, but it’s yummy. I’ll give it that.

[00:05:27] Adam Argyle: That’s yu mean good. I, uh, was smelling the glass after like an empty, , kind of neat cup the other day and it was so sweet. Like once you let it dry for like an hour or whatever. Oh it smelled so good. anyway,

[00:05:38] Robbie Wagner: When the alcohol’s gone, it’s just sugar.

[00:05:42] Adam Argyle: that explains the candy that I was smelling.

[00:05:44] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:05:45] Adam Argyle: Alright, so you got stress gummies. What’s up? Tell me I need to hear this

[00:05:49] Adam Argyle: sounds

[00:05:49] Robbie Wagner: Should we do I, well, we’ll just skip ratings I guess. ‘cause I’m gonna end up doing two

[00:05:52] Robbie Wagner: different

[00:05:53] Adam Argyle: Oh yeah, mine’s not that great anyway,

[00:05:55] Adam Argyle: so assume it’s a low number. Yep.

[00:05:57] Robbie Wagner: rate these, uh, somewhere else [00:06:00] later maybe, or maybe I won’t. Anyway. Yes. So,

[00:06:02] Robbie Wagner: all right, everyone, uh, get comfy. Got a little, little tale of Thanksgiving here for you.

[00:06:08] Robbie Wagner: So we went up to Pennsylvania for Thanksgiving to, uh, Kaitlin’s Dad’s place. It started out pretty good. Getting there wasn’t too bad. And then, uh, the first couple days we went to New York, left all the kids with the grandparents.

[00:06:22] Adam Argyle: Ooh,

[00:06:22] Adam Argyle: that sounds nice.

[00:06:24] Robbie Wagner: yeah, yeah. We went to see Harry Potter and the Curse Child.

[00:06:27] Robbie Wagner: Super good would recommend. , And then during that I started to get a really bad headache and I was like, well, this is cool. there’s nothing you could do, you’re at a Broadway show, like, what are you gonna do? , tried to just get some water and like super big lines.

[00:06:39] Robbie Wagner: So I was like, all right, I’ll come back later. And they’re like, oh, actually we’re closed now. So got no water. , I was like, Hey, I was just trying to get some water, man, like, and he is like, no. , So that wasn’t fun.

[00:06:48] Robbie Wagner: Afterwards we go to Walgreens and I’m like, all right, I’m gonna get some Excedrin. Since it was right before Thanksgiving, there were all the people in town for the Thanksgiving parade.

[00:06:57] Robbie Wagner: There were like 100 people from like the [00:07:00] Spirit of America in line at Walgreens. And I’m like, , we should go to a different Walgreens and Caitlyn’s like, well, I mean, it’ll probably take us just as long to like find another Walgreens as it would to just wait in line. So we wait in line forever.

[00:07:11] Robbie Wagner: I’m just taking the Excedrin in line and then we go to like a bar afterwards and I’m just like, I’m not drinking anything. Like, I feel like shit like. Just gonna sit here for a while, start feeling better like maybe two hours later. Then we had a super dope dinner, which was, , vegan, sushi, all super good.

[00:07:28] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know how they made it taste so good. I, I was very worried about it personally, but it was super yummy. Let’s see. Yeah, so that was good. Then the next day, pretty good. No headache.

[00:07:38] Adam Argyle: Oh, really? Wait. The story just kind of fizzles out right there.

[00:07:41] Adam Argyle: Like, you, you, it sounded

[00:07:42] Robbie Wagner: ebbs and

[00:07:43] Robbie Wagner: flows.

[00:07:44] Adam Argyle: okay. I was like, Hey man, this night doesn’t sound so bad. It ended with a pretty rad dinner and, you know, a small headache that you, you okay?

[00:07:51] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:07:51] Robbie Wagner: Wait

[00:07:52] Adam Argyle: Hit me. Let’s go

[00:07:53] Robbie Wagner: So then next day. Next day is good. I don’t think, uh, did I have anything to complain about the next day? I don’t think so. Headache doesn’t come [00:08:00] back. Meals are great. Everything we do in New York. Great. Perfect. On our way back the next day, we’re on the train and the train just stops and it’s like.

[00:08:11] Robbie Wagner: Hey, , little bit of fire in the back. We’re gonna just chill for a while. And

[00:08:17] Robbie Wagner: then it’s like an hour of sitting there. They start going again. They go like a couple miles. They’re like, yeah, a lot of fire. We’re gonna chill. Like, so I don’t know what was happening back there. They just kept doing that took forever.

[00:08:29] Robbie Wagner: While we’re sitting there in the train, , my father-in-law is texting us like, Hey, yeah, when you get back, I think you’re probably gonna wanna take Odie to the vet. And we were like, why? It’s like, oh yeah, he had a few seizures, like, probably fine. It’s like, uh, okay. so we got

[00:08:47] Adam Argyle: message.

[00:08:48] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, we got back and uh, I called the vet and like, I called a local vet and they were like, Hey, you haven’t brought him in already.

[00:08:55] Robbie Wagner: Are you dumb? , And I was like, well, I wasn’t there. Like, sorry for like, don’t need the judgment. [00:09:00] Thank you. , And so we take him into the emergency vet. They’re like, yeah, we’re gonna keep him overnight. See what’s wrong with him. I was like, Hey, we’re not gonna spend a bunch of money on tests, so like, what can we do?

[00:09:09] Robbie Wagner: So we just got meds that like supposedly are gonna stop the seizures, but he already can’t walk. So now he extra can’t walk. I have to like carry him everywhere and like hold him up to eat his food and like, it’s pretty

[00:09:20] Adam Argyle: Oh, dang. Yeah.

[00:09:21] Robbie Wagner: yeah, so he’s been having a lot of trouble with that, which means all the time he’s peeing and pooping in the house

[00:09:27] Robbie Wagner: like all day long.

[00:09:29] Adam Argyle: like an old man on your hands.

[00:09:31] Robbie Wagner: yeah. Yeah. So like we’re dealing with that. We get through Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was, or no, so sorry. We don’t get through Thanksgiving. This is still the next day after we take Odie,, I’m like, Hey, well we’re supposed to go to this light thing, , like a light show at a, at Longwood Gardens. My headache’s coming back.

[00:09:48] Robbie Wagner: I’m like, Hey, I’m gonna chill. Like I don’t want to go. My headache came on super sudden and super bad to the point where I was like asking chat GPT what to do. And it’s like, you should go to the hospital. So I go to the [00:10:00] hospital

[00:10:00] Robbie Wagner: and

[00:10:02] Robbie Wagner: go get a, a CAT scan and uh, they couldn’t find anything like no brain

[00:10:07] Robbie Wagner: bleeds

[00:10:07] Robbie Wagner: or

[00:10:07] Robbie Wagner: anything, so

[00:10:08] Robbie Wagner: that’s

[00:10:08] Adam Argyle: alone. So you’re out of town, your whole fam,

[00:10:12] Robbie Wagner: I was alone. I drove myself there. I was like, I could probably make it, , it’s a Tesla, it won’t let me

[00:10:17] Robbie Wagner: crash.

[00:10:17] Robbie Wagner: It’s

[00:10:17] Adam Argyle: Whew. Okay. Yes. This story is, uh, quite something. All right. Geez.

[00:10:22] Robbie Wagner: yeah. So in the hospital I’m pretty normal. Like they, they gimme an iv, I start getting hydrated. I’m like, , I’m pretty good. Like I’m feeling better. but you still gotta wait, like get all the tests done, whatever. The guy next to me is like, some super crazy psychotic guy who like was talking about like.

[00:10:39] Robbie Wagner: , Little bit graphic, but you know, whatever. It’s not a family show. He was like, yeah, like 12 years ago I took a razor blade and like cut open my scrotum and like put some stuff in there. I don’t know what he was saying exactly. I was like, bro, this guy sounds insane. The nurse comes over and he’s like, yeah, dude.

[00:10:54] Robbie Wagner: Like they make TV shows about the stuff that’s going on over next door. And I was like, yeah, [00:11:00] yeah, it sounds like it. , So anyway, I end up being fine. Go back. , Then we come home. I feel like I’m forgetting something in between there. Let’s see. Thanksgiving was good.

[00:11:10] Robbie Wagner: I

[00:11:11] Adam Argyle: I

[00:11:11] Adam Argyle: mean, so you just walk outta the hospital, you’re like, I guess I’m hydrated. There’s nothing crazy wrong. I’m alone. Uh, it’s a family holiday ish thing and I guess I’m just gonna walk outta here and get in the car and drive home without

[00:11:24] Robbie Wagner: Kaitlyn, Kaitlyn picked me up. , She got dropped off. They were done with their light thing. All the kids popped off and were like. Super terrible at the light thing. So she had a hard time too. We’ve been dealing with them being super tough, like with everything we’re doing. So that’s, that’s another thing that’s tough.

[00:11:41] Robbie Wagner: , Yeah, Thanksgiving was okay though. Black Friday was fine. We come home, Finn has decided that he’s just gonna be like, anything you want me to do, I’m doing the opposite. So we’ve been dealing with that like

[00:11:52] Robbie Wagner: two days in a row. We were trying to like go to dinner and like never made it out of the house.

[00:11:56] Robbie Wagner: So like, dealing with that today, [00:12:00] both dogs have been throwing up pretty much nonstop in the house. Odie threw up a foot of a like toy and it’s not a toy that we have,

[00:12:10] Robbie Wagner: so I don’t know where it came from.

[00:12:13] Adam Argyle: Hmm. Mystery foot parenting hashtag. This whole thing is totally this. This whole thing so far reminds me of just parenting.

[00:12:22] Robbie Wagner: yeah, yeah. . Yeah. I don’t know. I feel like there’s, maybe it’s just a bunch of little things, but my brain was kind of on a rant there, and then kind of just gave out on me. So, I don’t know. I think there were more things to say, but you get the gist. It’s been having a hard

[00:12:34] Robbie Wagner: time. Uh,

[00:12:35] Adam Argyle: you’re here now. Yeah. Dude, that sounds super rough. Just taking your family on a trip, has highs and lows, right? There’s always these, you know, right as you said, the ebbs and flows, but dude, you don’t want that stuff. You don’t want those text messages from your dad or from, uh, your spouse’s dad.

[00:12:51] Adam Argyle: Like, you’re like, oh, just some casual seizures. Well, I’m so glad you didn’t interrupt me during my headache here at the, , theater. , And then, yeah, you’re trying to enjoy a nice meal. You’re like, I’m [00:13:00] in New York. I like a nice meal. Dam it, and you’re like, ha, it’s really hard to have a nice meal when everything around you is pushing.

[00:13:05] Adam Argyle: Ooh, okay. So you had a lot of pushing happening on you. , This is, I’m just gonna summarize really quickly. I’ve had a lot of pulling on me. and both those things are bad in excess. Both those things suck. Dang, dude.

[00:13:17] Robbie Wagner: Do you wanna elaborate on the pulling?

[00:13:19] Adam Argyle: Well, I mean, just like real. I wrote a blog post last week or two weeks ago or something like that, and, I keep getting messages from people.

[00:13:24] Adam Argyle: They’re like, dude, are you okay? And I’m like, yeah, I’m really good. I’m just, I wrote that message. , So the, the post was I’m not giving talks anymore and I’m getting out of standards. And the reason is, is ‘cause I feel like I’m pulled in so many different directions that I’m not producing quality, , like I like to anymore.

[00:13:40] Adam Argyle: I’m not a quality parent like I want to be. I’m not a quality husband. I’m not even quality to myself. I’m not quality at work. I’m not quality to, , the content. I’m making all this stuff. And so I was like, I got a purge. And this is also, ‘cause I came back from a trip that was two weeks long away from the family.

[00:13:54] Adam Argyle: Exhausting business trip to Berlin, gave a talk, flew to Kobee [00:14:00] Japan, went to a standards tpac, , event for a whole week. And I was just like fried. I was super fried. And I was like, I just, I need a Marie Kondo my life. I was like, too many things are pulling me in so many directions I can’t, I have to give some of them up.

[00:14:12] Adam Argyle: And so to summarize, , what I’m doing is I’m trying to focus on quality over quantity. So this is something I will continue doing. I like this. This is energizing. This gives me, this is cool. , But so yeah, people are like, Hey, are are you okay? And I’m like, yeah, I’m just giving up standards. Like that’s not really surprising.

[00:14:27] Adam Argyle: How many people have you seen stick through it? It’s kind of grueling and a little poopy, and the arguments are really weird. I mean, there’s some, there’s some tiny bits of glory in it, but it’s not enough. Same with open source. Dude, I’m thinking

[00:14:39] Adam Argyle: about closing down some of my repos.

[00:14:41] Adam Argyle: Like, no, you can fork it if you want. I’m tired of answering inquiries. I’m tired of doing your chores.

[00:14:46] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, it’s like Prime, I forget what he called it. It’s like open source implies you’re gonna maintain it, but it’s like, I forget what he called it, but it’s something else that he named it where he was like, it’s essentially like, I’m gonna put it out. It’s free source, [00:15:00] basically, but I’m not gonna maintain it.

[00:15:01] Robbie Wagner: This is for me and I’m done with it. It’s not gonna be maintained. It’s like, here you go. But that’s it. I feel like that is, you know, still helpful. Like, you put it out there, people can fork it and you know, maybe build it into something else or whatever. But yeah, it is, it is hard like I’ve been putting a lot of time in on Swatch, which is been actually pretty interesting because,

[00:15:22] Adam Argyle: Because color’s. Cool.

[00:15:24] Robbie Wagner: yeah,

[00:15:24] Adam Argyle: it

[00:15:24] Adam Argyle: dude. Yeah,

[00:15:25] Robbie Wagner: But, well, no, the reason, like, this is a whole AI saga for me because there’s a, uh, eyedropper, API in Chrome,

[00:15:33] Robbie Wagner: which lets you grab colors,

[00:15:35] Robbie Wagner: right?

[00:15:36] Adam Argyle: Seldom note and grab colors outside the chrome window

[00:15:39] Robbie Wagner: right. right. But it works on, , Mac and Windows, not Linux. And so I was like, huh, maybe they’ve, like, in the three or four years since I introduced it, maybe it works now, still does it.

[00:15:54] Robbie Wagner: And I was like, well, I could build one. Like how hard could it be? , And I was like, there’s a reason y’all [00:16:00] why, like Chrome said, fuck that noise. Like, we’re not gonna build it for Linux

[00:16:04] Adam Argyle: dang. I thought for a secondary you’d be like, AI did it in one prompt. I’m like, oh man. It kind of sounds like focused enough for AI to do, but I don’t know how good it is at Linux app

[00:16:12] Adam Argyle: development.

[00:16:13] Robbie Wagner: AI did a, a decent job, but the problem is Linux has like, and I, I don’t use Linux, so I’m, you know, someone can correct me if I say all this wrong, but there’s window managers that are like, X 11 is one and Wayland is one.

[00:16:28] Robbie Wagner: And then each of those has like different compositors. Like a compositor would be like, no. Or like KDEI think like, I don’t know. I don’t know what the fuck

[00:16:37] Robbie Wagner: these

[00:16:37] Adam Argyle: You sounded like you knew what you were

[00:16:38] Adam Argyle: talking

[00:16:39] Adam Argyle: about, so you did great. Yep.

[00:16:40] Robbie Wagner: Well, yeah, I mean through a lot of trial and error for like a week straight. I’ve learned some things, but essentially Wayland is the new, like most people use that and it’s more secure, so it like won’t let you grab the screen.

[00:16:55] Robbie Wagner: Like doesn’t care who you are,

[00:16:56] Adam Argyle: It’s a privacy issue.

[00:16:58] Robbie Wagner: and so I was looking for [00:17:00] all these workarounds, but basically on Linux you gotta be like, if you’re on X 11, just do it. ‘cause it just works because you’re on Waylan. It’s like if you’re on this composite, you do this. If you’re on this composite or you do this, if you’re on this composite, you do this.

[00:17:12] Robbie Wagner: ‘cause they all have like different ways they handle it. And I’m just like, my God. Like I never thought that Linux would be so locked down. Like the open source operating system is like, nope, you can’t do anything seems. Counter to their ethos. , But yeah, I did it

[00:17:27] Adam Argyle: there’s a tension there that I like that you’re bringing up. Yes. The tension between you being open sourced yet secure and private.

[00:17:34] Adam Argyle: yeah. Those things

[00:17:35] Adam Argyle: don’t,

[00:17:35] Adam Argyle: I

[00:17:35] Adam Argyle: don’t think people juggle those in their hands often enough, so, yeah.

[00:17:38] Adam Argyle: Okay. Keep going. Sorry. Yeah, I’m, I’m gonna rant a lot today. I just feel like I have a lot going on. , Yeah. So AI did it all for me because I was like, I know that if you use enough like c plus plus, there’s gotta be a low level way to do some of this stuff. And it should just work at like a system level.

[00:17:59] Robbie Wagner: AI was like, Hey [00:18:00] bro, c plus plus, that’s dumb. You should use rust. And I was like. Okay, why

[00:18:06] Robbie Wagner: not?

[00:18:06] Robbie Wagner: Like

[00:18:07] Robbie Wagner: I’m not, I don’t know either of them. So you write to your heart’s content and it was like, okay. And so it built a thing in Rust. Well, I guess first, the first iteration was all Electron. So it was like they have a desktop capturer where they’ve implemented some of this already.

[00:18:23] Robbie Wagner: but it also did not work how I wanted on Linux because it, every time you wanted to capture the desktop would ask you again for permissions to record your screen. And I was like, that’s gonna be annoying. No one will click yes like 100,000 times. So you can reuse that. It’s pipe wire is the thing and you can reuse a token on that to allow it to just keep record like forever, like on a Mac when you like allow it permissions.

[00:18:48] Robbie Wagner: It’s just on. , So that’s what I wanted. So I was like, I’m gonna rebuild it, do all of this. So I have a custom MAC one, a custom Windows one and a custom Linux one that are all rust code, do different things based on the, uh, os [00:19:00] you’re on. And it has basically. It pipes info, that’s just to get the info from it, like screenshots the screen and then updates that every time you move the cursor, like little screenshots, and then sends all of that pixel data to an electron window, which is a bunch of little squares, just like a display grid thing. You can make the, the squares bigger or smaller so you can like, and you can zoom in and out and stuff. it’s pretty cool that it just, you can like sample, you know, a nine by nine area, pixel area of your screen and then feed it into nine, like bigger nine by nine grid, or make the grid bigger or whatever.

[00:19:36] Robbie Wagner: It’s really kind of elegant. I don’t know what like 90% of the code does, but it’s like, I was able to explain to it. That’s how I wanted it to work. And I feel like that’s like the new, promised land of AI is like, senior engineers should be able to understand the concept of what they want and then just let it implement it for as long as it wants.

[00:19:55] Robbie Wagner: it turned out pretty okay.

[00:19:56] Adam Argyle: Dang. Yeah, man, that’s awesome. So AI enabling you [00:20:00] to jump into a foreign space. Implement something, get a nice quality result out of it, explore and learn. be guided by this thing. So even you and re sort of working together, and you’re right, the senior role is about vocabulary, , systems design. you have to know what a capability is to even ask for it.

[00:20:15] Adam Argyle: So you still have to research. You still have to learn. yeah, I mean, I’m still still playing with all. I I still have way too many edit. Hey, there’s been a new editor that came out since we last talked. Big surprise. Yeah. Google’s got another one. I mean, what are they on their third or fourth one at this point?

[00:20:30] Adam Argyle: But this one was called Avalanche or

[00:20:32] Adam Argyle: Architect, or,

[00:20:33] Robbie Wagner: the anti-gravity thing you

[00:20:34] Robbie Wagner: mean?

[00:20:35] Adam Argyle: Antigravity. Yeah. It started with an am It

[00:20:37] Adam Argyle: was

[00:20:37] Robbie Wagner: Okay. Yeah. I saw everyone like freaking out about it for a day and then like couldn’t get in or something,

[00:20:43] Adam Argyle: yeah. I couldn’t get in a whole

[00:20:44] Adam Argyle: bunch of.

[00:20:45] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:20:46] Adam Argyle: I’m one of those people. I was like, I’ll have to give this a shot on my personal computer, you know, and then I set it up, it’s like, choose my Google account. I’m like, oh, that’s nice. Just choose my Google account. You hell let me in. Nah, I couldn’t get in. I tried for like four or five more times for the rest of the day and was like, well, [00:21:00] if I’m not getting in now, I don’t know if I’m gonna get in later.

[00:21:02] Adam Argyle: Ooh, what you got?

[00:21:02] Robbie Wagner: This is two rye whiskey. It doesn’t tell you on here. let’s see. Interrupt this program with a second whiskey. This is Sir Davis American Whiskey.

[00:21:16] Robbie Wagner: Finished in Sherry casks. Sounds good. Anyway, yes. Sorry to interrupt you.

[00:21:21] Adam Argyle: No, it’s all good. Just kind of recapping where you’re at.

[00:21:23] Adam Argyle: I released a color component. I released a color web component to open source. And yeah, we should definitely combine forces and sort of consider like what’s, ‘cause I mean, it’s fun. We can both make our own components. , But we could also, like, I wanna work on yours or at least help you on yours.

[00:21:38] Adam Argyle: In some ways mine still is not

[00:21:39] Adam Argyle: perfect. , And that’s part of one of the things I wanted to do better is like, I

[00:21:42] Robbie Wagner: Is it

[00:21:43] Adam Argyle: on and chase my little things. No, it’s in, uh, it’s using preact signals and web components.

[00:21:50] Robbie Wagner: Okay, perfect.

[00:21:51] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I just won’t work in React. That’s the hill I’ll die

[00:21:54] Robbie Wagner: on.

[00:21:54] Adam Argyle: Oh man. Dude, I have good news for you. At Shopify, it’s so funny. The worst choice that anybody [00:22:00] made seems to be react so far. It’s like the number one thing holding things back. And it’s just so weird to me that the rest of the world is still sipping the Kool-Aid so hard. AI is just vomiting, React at just rates we can’t even realize.

[00:22:12] Adam Argyle: And yet, meanwhile, companies with very smart people can’t keep their thumb on the re-renders can’t keep their thumb on the thrashing that this tool is outputting, whether it’s hooks or not. And I don’t think it’s education. It just seems like it’s a wild horse that it

[00:22:29] Adam Argyle: teased you like it was some sort of tame beast.

[00:22:31] Adam Argyle: And

[00:22:31] Adam Argyle: it’s not it traps you because it’s like very easy to get started and like do the hello world example. But then when you have, 35 hooks in a file, you’re like, you know what, I’m not actually sure what this is doing anymore or if these are right.

[00:22:47] Robbie Wagner: so it really traps you in, like, you have to be very disciplined to like not do that and have very, very small pieces and like keep track of all of your, , dependencies and stuff.

[00:22:57] Robbie Wagner: And like, yeah, it’s, it is harder than it should be.

[00:22:59] Robbie Wagner: [00:23:00] I.

[00:23:00] Adam Argyle: It is harder than it should be. Oh, I had a really fun comparison when I was in Japan, so I really like going to Asia, , and eating from the earth. I just was like, oh, hey, what is this? And they’re like, that’s daikon. You’re like, oh, it just looks cute. All right, sweet. I’ll eat that shit. It sounds great. You know, and everything they did, it’s like, this is the raw veggie, this is the raw fruit.

[00:23:18] Adam Argyle: We just cut it into a fun shape or combined two of them together into something fun. And I’m like, this is so cool. , I always feel like I’m eating better. I don’t necessarily feel better ‘cause my body’s like, what is raw veggies? You know? but at the same time I had this epic realization, ‘cause I’ve, I’ve always appreciated people that build for the platform.

[00:23:35] Adam Argyle: You know, and I’ll do that in quotes, but I’m realizing that in Asia, they eat from the platform they eat. , As things grow out of the ground, they’re a very natural

[00:23:44] Adam Argyle: eating, , culture. So are people that build for the web, that build with the primitives and with the grain of the web. This is a very natural thing.

[00:23:52] Adam Argyle: If you think about the meals that you make, if you visit a website and it’s built with the platform, it’s delivered quickly by, just [00:24:00] naturally, , it’s accessible by nature. There’s like all these attributes of it that are like really good. So then you come back home to America and you get yourself a burger.

[00:24:07] Adam Argyle: And you look at the burger and you’re like, how much on here is. Natural, like almost every single thing on my entire plate of almost everywhere I order, that’s like American food. It doesn’t look like the original vegetable or the original ingredients at all. It’s been grind out, pounded, cut into a hundred pieces, remixed, re chopped redelivered, refa, and then they recombined it into some monstrosity.

[00:24:31] Adam Argyle: And I’m like, we eat in America. Like react apps get made for the web

[00:24:36] Adam Argyle: and in Asia they eat the platform. And anyway, I’m just like, I thought that was fun as a fun

[00:24:41] Adam Argyle: comparison.

[00:24:42] Adam Argyle: So

[00:24:43] Robbie Wagner: they also care about precision and like, presentation. It’s, it’s more like engineering than like being a cook. It like, has to sit just right and like, they think about every detail, whereas like, here we’re like, like, here’s some food. Eat it. [00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Adam Argyle: squish it up. Yeah. This will last 200 years if you leave it

[00:25:03] Adam Argyle: alone.

[00:25:04] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:25:06] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Like we, we care way more about profits and speed, which is like reacts bread and butter profits and speed.

[00:25:14] Adam Argyle: and speed here you look, it

[00:25:16] Robbie Wagner: yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it is, it is sad. Like I do think, , Japan and Korea are like the food, best food you could get of like, caring about all of it. They have like the most Michelin star restaurants too.

[00:25:29] Robbie Wagner: That’s not by accident. They like

[00:25:31] Robbie Wagner: really

[00:25:32] Adam Argyle: I mean, I was in Kobee. I

[00:25:33] Adam Argyle: ate kobee beef a lot, and I don’t eat a lot of beef at home. and I had beef every night there and it never hurt me one time. it was super good. thin cut, you know, mostly rare, cooked lightly. My favorite thing was, uh, the Suki, which I’ve had before. Do you know what Suki is?

[00:25:49] Robbie Wagner: Mm

[00:25:50] Adam Argyle: , You take a, an egg, you crack it into a little cup. Uh, you mix it up. And then you cook your meat thin piece of meat on the grill, or you do it, in, shabu, shabu, you [00:26:00] cook it in like a broth or whatever. Anyway, you take it outta there, you drop it into the raw egg and you eat it right away.

[00:26:05] Robbie Wagner: mm

[00:26:06] Adam Argyle: And most Americans are like, oh, raw egg.

[00:26:08] Adam Argyle: That sounds terrible, dude. It’s amazing. It’s so good. I

[00:26:12] Adam Argyle: couldn’t get enough of it. I was like, please gimme more. I’ll do, then you gotta get Suki Yaki. So I later got a Suki Yaki, like it wasn’t a burger or a sandwich, it was like a sushi sandwich. So they had the rice folded up into like a taco full of all the, and then Suki was inside so good.

[00:26:28] Adam Argyle: It was still kind of like American and that it was handheld and portable, but it was still all natural. All the ingredients were in that you could point at them and point and be like, I know where that came from. I know where that came from. , But yeah, the souk, the meat there was so good.

[00:26:41] Adam Argyle: very happy. I bet.

[00:26:42] Adam Argyle: I had Japanese whiskey too. While I was in Cobe, I had to go to a little Japanese spot and be like, where’s the whiskey joint? Okay, cool. I’m gonna go down to these stairs. Dude, they had, , suits on with bow ties

[00:26:51] Adam Argyle: and just w Whiskey everywhere. , And I just kind of picked a bottle. I was like, , that one, I don’t know what any of these mean, but I’m gonna sip on that one.

[00:26:57] Adam Argyle: And that was very fun.[00:27:00]

[00:27:01] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Their whiskey is very precise too. Like the watery or the better? Usually like, in a good way, it’s like 40% alcohol, 80 proof, I guess. And it’ll taste like nothing. It’s like. How did you do that? Like vodka’s been trying to do that for, millennia?

[00:27:19] Adam Argyle: That’s funny. Oh dude. Okay. Wait. Before we, uh, get past the IDs too, there was another I-D-D-I-D-E, so there was, , anti-gravity, and then did you see the one that was like if, , chive and Cursor had a baby?

[00:27:30] Robbie Wagner: No. What is

[00:27:31] Adam Argyle: Is ch Chave is the site that, uh, you just scroll like. grenade, launchers, boobs, and comedy. Right.

[00:27:38] Adam Argyle: That’s like

[00:27:39] Adam Argyle: chive keep common Chavon. Oh, okay. Dude. I don’t know it either. Obviously I sound like a big old dude, but like my tattoo artist one time was like, I like to look at chive every day. And I looked at Chi and I was like, that’s quite the feed you’re scrolling. Yep.

[00:27:51] Robbie Wagner: Hold on. I wanna stop you right there because your wife is a tattoo artist. Is your wife, not your tattoo artist?

[00:27:58] Adam Argyle: she’s given me some, [00:28:00]

[00:28:00] Robbie Wagner: Okay. I guess

[00:28:00] Adam Argyle: and she’ll give me more

[00:28:01] Robbie Wagner: that made it seem like she is not mine.

[00:28:04] Adam Argyle: Oh, she, no, she’s great

[00:28:05] Adam Argyle: dude. Uh, she’s just mostly tattoos women and it’s always, you see that Seinfeld where he was like dating the masseuse, , and she wouldn’t give a massage. He would sit down on the couch and be like, oh my necks hurt so bad.

[00:28:16] Adam Argyle: And she’d just like, walk right by him.

[00:28:17] Robbie Wagner: yeah,

[00:28:19] Adam Argyle: Uh, or the, you know, the cobbler’s kids have no shoes. Like, uh, anyway. Yeah, you don’t

[00:28:23] Robbie Wagner: want to do it at home. Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:28:26] Adam Argyle: Yeah,

[00:28:26] Adam Argyle: so anyway, this guy is showing me chive. Anyway, so chive is like I described, it’s just this feed of, well, I, I think it’s garbage, but whatever. Some people love it, some people loved it, and it just makes ‘em happier for, anyway, okay, so there’s new IDE.

[00:28:39] Adam Argyle: While your AI is responding, instead of just sitting there and changing contexts to go to another app or whatever it is that you do, while AI is replying, it pulls up something like chive, which does include soft core porn or porn or football results or whatever. It’s like this oddly specific American man, turbo, [00:29:00] macho man, IDE, that combines your favorite bad habits with your new AI bad habits.

[00:29:07] Adam Argyle: I have no, I was, I saw it and I was like, this is amazing. In a really terrible way. I’m like, I

[00:29:12] Robbie Wagner: I think that’s compelling. Maybe tweaked a little or letting you decide what your feed of content would be like. Like, you know, a more family friendly one that’s like Instagram, just kind of,

[00:29:24] Adam Argyle: Oh yeah, keep me updated with my family. So the guy next to you is like going raunchy town and you’re over there like, oh, what’d you do on Thanksgiving? That’s sounded just liking

[00:29:32] Adam Argyle: things on.

[00:29:35] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:29:35] Robbie Wagner: I mean, I just, I feel like no one’s gonna use that. Like, at work, like you’re, you’re head of the office or something and you’re like, oh, oops. Like some porn came up. That was a, sorry. It’s my ID guys.

[00:29:48] Adam Argyle: Seriously, it wasn’t me. It wasn’t me. It was my IDE. So funny. Isn’t that just the funniest IDE you’ve ever heard of? It’s also just like the worst. It’s like, ah, America Or just people , we’re so capable of amazing and terrible [00:30:00] things.

[00:30:00] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I mean, that feels like the kind of thing you would do as like bait to get stars on GitHub, but like not be a real, like you’re probably not making money

[00:30:09] Robbie Wagner: off

[00:30:09] Robbie Wagner: that

[00:30:10] Adam Argyle: It is a shit post. Now that’s kind of, you’re right. If this was a shit post, IDE, it was an id, it was a fork of VS code just to make a silly shit post. That’s amazing. Uh, because it worked. It was so shocking and so upsetting to me. Here I am talking about it. So,

[00:30:27] CTA: This just in! Whiskey.fund is now open for all your merch needs. That’s right, Robbie. We’re hearing reports of hats, sweaters, and T-shirts, as well as a link to join our Discord server. What’s a Discord server? Just read the prompter, man. Hit subscribe. Leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and tell your friends about our broadcast. It really does help us reach more people and keeps the show growing. All right, back to your regularly scheduled [00:31:00] programming.

[00:31:00] Adam Argyle: Well, I’ve got a, another weird little, , AI thing, which is, , I’ve been trying to vibe code iOS apps from an iOS app.

[00:31:08] Robbie Wagner: What,

[00:31:09] Adam Argyle: I know, right?

[00:31:10] Adam Argyle: Isn’t

[00:31:11] Adam Argyle: that just like, so funny? I think it’s called artifact. I didn’t write it in my notes here, but the funny story is, is like, , I opened it up. I start prompting an app.

[00:31:19] Adam Argyle: And the app that I wanted to make was me and my kids have been making dungeons on an isometric grid. So we have this isometric grid paper. As we draw lines along the lines, we can eventually make a really cool looking cave or dungeon or whatever it is, or castle. It’s like, it’s super fun. And so I was like, Hey, this is on my mind right now.

[00:31:37] Adam Argyle: Let’s make a digital version of this artifact. I think it’s called artifact. I’m like, make a, an app where I can just draw with my finger on an isometric grid, snap to the grid, and I wanna make, , castles and caves for fun or whatever. And so sure enough, it’s like computing. Yes. You are so smart making app for

[00:31:55] Adam Argyle: you, right? And it’s like, you’re absolutely right. This is gonna be the greatest app of all time. [00:32:00] I love you. And then it just like starts making the thing. and it takes forever for some reason. One, I’m like, I don’t know. It’s iOS and it’s running on my phone. I have no idea what’s going on. It’s just making something.

[00:32:10] Adam Argyle: It takes a long time. And I like close my phone and reopen multiple. I come back and it’s there. Finally, dude, the app is ready. I launch it and I launched it. So you launch artifact and then you launch the app that artifact made and it loads up and it’s got a drawing board with the whole grid and everything.

[00:32:27] Adam Argyle: And I’m like, dude, it did it. And I touched the screen to start drawing and it just crashes.

[00:32:33] Robbie Wagner: Yep.

[00:32:33] Robbie Wagner: That’s

[00:32:34] Robbie Wagner: the

[00:32:34] Adam Argyle: And I was like, ah, ai. You’re so close yet, so far away.

[00:32:39] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I do think it’s, uh, you know, people have been saying a lot recently, if you don’t know the thing that it’s making, you’ll be much more impressed like that. Like me with the rust code,

[00:32:50] Robbie Wagner: I’m

[00:32:51] Robbie Wagner: like,

[00:32:51] Adam Argyle: Were you with the Yeah, with the Linux references. I was like, dude, you sound smart

[00:32:54] Adam Argyle: right now. Yeah. Nome. Yeah.

[00:32:57] Robbie Wagner: it worked great, but like. [00:33:00] Other things I’ve been trying to fix a couple of old ember add-ons and, uh, updating some dependencies and stuff, like a few tests were failing and it spent like three hours, debugging these tests, putting in all this console, logging, whatever.

[00:33:15] Robbie Wagner: And I was like, Hey, , you know what you can do? cause it was like trying to wait for an animation to finish and then do an assertion on like some state. and the problem was it wasn’t waiting on the animations, so it was like always the wrong values. And I was like, bro, you can use wait until or wait for, these are helpers Ember gives you and you can wait for the thing you want, and then assert on it.

[00:33:34] Robbie Wagner: And it’s like, oh, you’re, you’re right. I could do that. And then it still wouldn’t do it. It just kept like d and i. Later on I was like, all right, you spent three hours. I took like. 20 minutes fixed ‘em all. I was like, here you go. This is what it was supposed to do. so like, it really depends on the thing you give it and you know, what it decides to pull from, from its context, I guess, because is very hit or miss.

[00:33:54] Adam Argyle: It is very hit or miss. Totally agree. and yeah. I’m not giving up on, on it. It feels like it’s got tape. [00:34:00] But here’s the other thing too, is I, I hate paying for it.

[00:34:02] Adam Argyle: Oh, and speaking of which too is, chat GT or open ai, they just, they just called a code red. And the code red says, Gemini’s eating our lunch.

[00:34:11] Adam Argyle: We need to like severely reorient all of our marketing, all of our everything into making our models better. and I thought that was kind of interesting. I, I’ve tried Gemini three a couple times, nano banana’s pretty good. It’s finally doing good with text and stuff like that. But I’m not over here like completely switching.

[00:34:26] Adam Argyle: I’m still on clot all day

[00:34:28] Robbie Wagner: Well, I guess they’re probably not talking about coding. the fact that you can be like in a Google Doc and be like, man, this thing I wrote blows. Like, Hey Gemini, like make this better. And it’s like, here you go. Here’s suggestions. Like I think being right in the popular tools is like the bread and butter, like, , chat, GPT is not really in tools

[00:34:51] Adam Argyle: Well, yeah, I guess I see what you mean. Yeah. And same with Claude. Claude is just like Che, it’s a Bolton.

[00:34:56] Adam Argyle: Oh. Do you see what Cursor did to all the additional models that can, uh, [00:35:00] live in there now?

[00:35:01] Robbie Wagner: mm-hmm.

[00:35:02] Adam Argyle: So you used to have like, you could go and add an extension for Claude, for example, and you’d have an icon that was exposed up in the tab so that you could click it and it would fly out a little side panel chat window for you, just like the one built into cursor.

[00:35:16] Adam Argyle: But at this point you’re doing a Claude CLI interaction and not a cursor chat, CLI, weird agent thing, which also it has a whole new mode. I don’t know if you’ve tried this whole new,

[00:35:27] Robbie Wagner: I haven’t used it since Open code is all I need anymore. I don’t,

[00:35:32] Robbie Wagner: I don’t use AI in my editor. I just do the AI stuff over in my terminal and open code and then

[00:35:38] Adam Argyle: Oh, you, you, you’re losing context, man. There’s like a lot of really cool features for like, just highlighting a line of like a test. I’ll highlight a test and be like, this test needs to change in this way. And it goes, boop boop. It knows exactly exactly

[00:35:50] Adam Argyle: what

[00:35:50] Robbie Wagner: do that in your, in, uh, open code as well. It like, looks

[00:35:54] Robbie Wagner: at your code. You can like, you know, at this file in these lines or whatever, but

[00:35:59] Adam Argyle: Yeah. I [00:36:00] guess it’s just slightly easier and it’s like I already have the file open and I can see that that’s context already attached to the thing. War has the same thing that you’re

[00:36:07] Adam Argyle: talking

[00:36:07] Robbie Wagner: Yep. Yes, warp is good too, but I keep running out of credits so when I run out of, uh. you can use your anthropic, , like code API key or whatever on open code. And then when that runs out, it’s like retrying and it starts a timer for like 14,000 seconds, I guess is like the timeout before you can use it again.

[00:36:26] Robbie Wagner: And I’m like, oh shit. So I go over and I, they have a model they’ve been working on called Big Pickle,

[00:36:31] Robbie Wagner: and

[00:36:31] Robbie Wagner: so I, yeah, I switched to that ‘cause it’s free and you just run it like, it might be not as good, but it’s free. So I can just keep like iterating while I’m waiting on my like anthropic stuff to come back.

[00:36:40] Adam Argyle: nice. That feels like a nano banana joke. ‘cause you got nano banana and Big Pickle.

[00:36:45] Adam Argyle: I’m pretty sure they’re doing a yin and yang type thing. Oh, you’re the nano banana Or whoa, we are the big pickle. Anyway, cursor demoted all those links or demoted all those external, , models that you could use. And so you now have to, when you upgrade cursor, they all [00:37:00] disappeared.

[00:37:00] Adam Argyle: And people are like, where, where did my preferred model go? And cursor’s like, oh, I, I don’t know. It’s still there. And you’re like, well, where? And you have to go explicitly show it. So you have to go into the settings and be like, show other

[00:37:16] Adam Argyle: models

[00:37:17] Robbie Wagner: default to like their SWE one or whatever?

[00:37:20] Adam Argyle: Yeah. Which I’ve heard good things about it being very fast.

[00:37:23] Adam Argyle: So, uh, maybe these apps that are, anticipating that you’re sitting there waiting a lot will go away as, you know, these things become quick.

[00:37:30] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. It used to be good. It was like the first kind of like bare bones, age agentic experience I feel like was like using that instead of just getting like one response back. It’d be like this thing and then, oh yeah, let me iterate on that. So I think like when it came out, which probably wasn’t that long ago, honestly, maybe a year ago or something, it was like.

[00:37:50] Robbie Wagner: Wow, this is good. But now all the other agentic stuff is just like so much better. It’s like, I’m not gonna use that anymore. yeah, I don’t know. I think the IDE play [00:38:00] is kind of dead, like warp and open code or where it’s at. Like

[00:38:03] Adam Argyle: I’m really enjoying

[00:38:05] Adam Argyle: my warp time. Yeah.

[00:38:06] Adam Argyle: And Claude, I’m like Cloud, CLI or Warp code. , I curse her a lot also ‘cause I. That’s FOMO based. I’m just gonna, just gonna be honest, it’s like it’s, it seems to be like a trend setter or it’s trendy and so it’s almost like I’m following React for the same reasons as I’m following cursor.

[00:38:23] Adam Argyle: It’s like I just wanna know what it is people see in this and maybe take some of its good ideas into what I’m working on. but man, I had a really good cloud experience the other day where I was ideating a, post CSS plugin. I wanted to enable space toggles.

[00:38:34] Adam Argyle: Do you know what a space toggle is in CSS? Alright, y’all, if you’re still listening to the, this episode, a space toggles in CSS, I think are slept on and I think they’re way more powerful than we give credit to it and it gets its name space toggle because it toggles on when you give it the value of space. So like, CSS space is a valid value for a custom property.

[00:38:58] Adam Argyle: And so it’s [00:39:00] basically an exploit where you’re saying, I’m gonna make a CSS custom property be the value of something valid. Except when I make it space, at which point it will pass through and just uninterrupt the parser and allow the parser to accept the following value after my space toggle. So you can do like background, and then you could say, VAR my space, toggle space red.

[00:39:26] Adam Argyle: And whenever that var space toggle value is a actual space, it takes your variable, replaces it with a space, which means absolutely nothing, and then applies the background color of red. Super simple. It’s basically an on off switch in this really clever little way where you can put on off switches in the middle of where a value goes.

[00:39:46] Adam Argyle: anyway. I think they’re slept on, but I think there’s syntax and how you write them, it’s totally unintuitive and it looks weird. And so I’m making a post CSS plugin that does this all with a, a really cool syntax. Something that [00:40:00] CSS would never do because CSS has to do unique and verbose syntaxes. I know

[00:40:05] Robbie Wagner: Oh

[00:40:05] Adam Argyle: em right now. yeah, you got like app function and all these cool things, but I’m like, dude, that’s verbose. That’s a really hard way

[00:40:11] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:40:11] Adam Argyle: you know,

[00:40:12] Adam Argyle: just like var, you’re like var, dash, dash, uh, yeah, there’s reasons. So I’m like, I’m not bound by the reasons anymore. I’m not in standards. I’m gonna get into post css.

[00:40:19] Adam Argyle: I’m gonna write some magic. And so, dude, I like, I get in there, I write this plan, I, articulate all these edge cases. I work it out, almost like I’m in Qro, but I’m not in Qro. I’m just making a plan. And I split this, the plan into a spec and an implementation plan. And then I give it to parallel because we’ve talked about this before.

[00:40:36] Adam Argyle: All the agents that I’m running and parallel, and I have all these agents defined, dude, I gave it to six agents. They hammered on it for 45 minutes. And one of the requirements was I wanted a marketing site, I wanted a doc site and I wanted a rep. And then I wanted unit tests and I wanted, of course the post CSS plugin.

[00:40:54] Adam Argyle: Dude, it made all of it. The rep is perfect. know the rep alone would’ve taken me so much [00:41:00] time to build just ‘cause code meter just itself is just a pain in the ass to set up. Just like all this stuff, do it 45 minutes. And I had these, and I even had a reviewer, I had an agent that reviewed the work of the other agents multiple times and then they out the, I was like, this is definitely pretty cool stuff.

[00:41:17] Adam Argyle: , I don’t know how much money it

[00:41:18] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:41:18] Adam Argyle: but, you know, it’s probably not cheap. But anyway, it was

[00:41:21] Adam Argyle: I, I, it was really cool. So now I have a very cool working idea.

[00:41:24] Robbie Wagner: this is the new like. The new addiction is like, oh yeah. Just, it’s like gambling. It’s like, just spend five more dollars, man. Like, it’ll get me that result I want.

[00:41:34] Adam Argyle: One more prompt. Dude, it seriously feels like that. And when the tokens run out, your addiction is totally like, you’re like, oh, what am I gonna do? And you’re like, let it go bro. And you’re like, I can’t let it go. I

[00:41:44] Robbie Wagner: yeah. I, oh my God. Yeah. I’ve been like that week of trying to get, , the swatch color picker to work. Like, Caitlin was like, are you gonna be done with this shit anytime soon? And

[00:41:55] Robbie Wagner: I was like, you

[00:41:56] Adam Argyle: Like, stranger Things is on. You need to stop coding. And I’m like, I’m not even coding, I’m just [00:42:00] talking to an agent. And she’s like, that sounds stupid than it did

[00:42:03] Robbie Wagner: yeah. Yes. Yeah. I just have to tell that it’s wrong several times a day.

[00:42:08] Robbie Wagner: Oh, yeah. No, it’s, it’s fun. I mean, I don’t know where the future will go with it, but,

[00:42:14] Robbie Wagner: it’s actually, I don’t know if this was a open code update or if something has happened with anthropic over the past couple days, but it is very. Scatterbrained now. And I think maybe it always was scatterbrained,

[00:42:26] Robbie Wagner: but

[00:42:26] Robbie Wagner: it

[00:42:26] Robbie Wagner: wasn’t

[00:42:26] Adam Argyle: People have been accusing the new clot updates of that also. So yeah, anthropic has been accused recently of a more scatterbrained

[00:42:32] Adam Argyle: model.

[00:42:32] Robbie Wagner: It’ll be like, oh, I found what the issue is. We should debug this. And it’s like, oh, but wait, actually this, oh, but wait, like it never finishes doing the thing. It’s like, this is definitely the bug. And then you’re like, cool, would you debug that? And it’s like, no, but what about this other thing?

[00:42:47] Robbie Wagner: And I’m like, no, finish your thought. Like So it’s, yeah. Maybe that’s a claw update. I don’t know. But it’s,

[00:42:52] Robbie Wagner: uh,

[00:42:52] Adam Argyle: a clot update,

[00:42:54] Robbie Wagner: do not like it.

[00:42:55] Adam Argyle: you’re using Warp. I still like a, there’s a piece of me that,

[00:42:59] Adam Argyle: I don’t like always [00:43:00] liking U underdogs. Like, I like being punk rock, like, uh, punk. I listen to like the less standard mainstream music, but like, there’s times where I’m like, that’s annoying even to me and I don’t pick it intentionally, but Dude, warp.

[00:43:11] Adam Argyle: Yeah, go ahead. This is where I just plug all my own stuff. Hey, if you didn’t make it to Beyond Tele Rand in Berlin this year, you can watch my talk, it’s Live Now. MIDI meets CSS where I modify CSS and , drive CSS animations. MIDI input from a KO two by teenage engineering, and then I make a couple songs. I do some dumb funny stuff and bring you along for the whole ride.

[00:43:36] Adam Argyle: So if that sounds interesting, check it out at nerdy.dev/beyond tiland. I’m pulling it up right now. I’ll share the link. Also, I wrote a blog post recently. Maybe people would like you’re a typography

[00:43:47] Adam Argyle: nerd.

[00:43:47] Robbie Wagner: love all these ads going on.

[00:43:49] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,

[00:43:49] Robbie Wagner: no. So I just heard a noise while we were, while you were saying, I forget what you

[00:43:54] Adam Argyle: mysterious ticking noise.

[00:43:56] Robbie Wagner: Odie had climbed out of his bed and was [00:44:00] behind my desk trying to get up the treadmill. and he climbed out of his bed because I, I had a diaper on him and he still somehow peed everywhere and none of it went in the diaper.

[00:44:12] Robbie Wagner: So I’ll be cleaning that up in a bit, but, oh man, what a fun time.

[00:44:20] Adam Argyle: Ah, this, uh, it’s so funny. I was like, at Thanksgiving, I’ll, I’ll just pivot. ‘cause at parenting, you’re prompting that, but like I said, Thanksgiving and genuinely, even though it’s hard and frustrating and very time consuming, that was one of those, , pucks that I told you that I bought. It just fell down.

[00:44:37] Adam Argyle: It’s

[00:44:38] Robbie Wagner: heard you talking shit about ‘em.

[00:44:39] Adam Argyle: It did. Seriously. They’re like, I’m gonna get you right in the middle of your show. I was like, I was grateful for my family and I’m totally not joking. Like, uh, I really like the perspective that it gives me. I think it’s super healthy for me and like mental, physical, emotional, like Becoming very tolerant and having patience, even though sometimes I’m probably not as patient as I should be. I’m definitely more patient than my [00:45:00] dad was, but, you know, whatever. Anyway, I like these things, so I don’t miss changing diapers. I also don’t like it when my kids pee their pants.

[00:45:06] Adam Argyle: but at the same time, I wouldn’t trade it away. It’s like, I, I, I think my favorite phrasing is it’s my favorite. It’s, my favorite long-term investment. , This investment is gonna take 20 years to pay off. There’s tons of, and even when it does pay off, it’s not like some grandiose payment that comes back to me.

[00:45:22] Adam Argyle: but dude, I wouldn’t change it. So

[00:45:24] Adam Argyle: that’s our positive . Message for the episode, I guess.

[00:45:27] Robbie Wagner: yeah, yeah, man, I’ve been having a hard time recently. But yeah, it’s like even when they piss you off for like several hours, they just come back and they’re like, just sweet for like five minutes. You’re like, oh, okay, that’s fine. Like,

[00:45:40] Adam Argyle: Yeah, it’s all good. They don’t know. Yeah. They, they don’t have that long term. Oh, dude. If, if have you wrapped for them yet when you’re mad at them. I call it rage wrapping for Christmas. I swear it happens every year where like I sit down to wrap, I’m like, finally, okay, I’m gonna wrap presents for these.

[00:45:54] Adam Argyle: And then I’m like these little turd nuggets apparently. And so I’m sitting there like wrapping, I’m like, you don’t deserve this. You a [00:46:00] little nugget. I’m like so mad. And then like, you know, Christmas rolls around. I’m like, you’re so cute. I’m so glad I

[00:46:06] Adam Argyle: bought you shit. Uh.

[00:46:08] Robbie Wagner: yeah. No, Caitlyn does all the rapping. So the only thing I rap is her presence. ‘cause obviously she can’t wrap her own, Yeah, I do a terrible job. Like I even learned kind of how, like my mom is really good at wrapping presents

[00:46:20] Robbie Wagner: and

[00:46:20] Robbie Wagner: she

[00:46:20] Adam Argyle: Oh, I know how I got the skills. I like skills. I’m just like, Ooh, you got a skill. Let me learn it. I’m gonna figure it out.

[00:46:27] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:46:28] Adam Argyle: a baby. Did you figure out how to swaddle?

[00:46:29] Robbie Wagner: Oh, I was so good at swaddling.

[00:46:31] Robbie Wagner: Yes.

[00:46:32] Adam Argyle: dude. To turn into a spider. You’re like, I got eight legs now. I’m swaddling. You so tight.

[00:46:37] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. If it comes a game where it’s like, can I get this good enough that you can’t get out of it? And it’s like,

[00:46:44] Adam Argyle: Escape this punk.

[00:46:45] Robbie Wagner: yeah, I don’t know. I have I think a lot of skills that are like not very good. Like I can do plumbing, not very good. I can

[00:46:58] Robbie Wagner: do

[00:46:58] Adam Argyle: was gonna say, that’s hard, man. Working [00:47:00] with water is tough stuff. Electric is also a tough stuff. Like those are two of the hardest ones, man. Those are the ones I’ve screwed up the most.

[00:47:07] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, like I put in, every time we get a new house, which is more often than it should be, hopefully it won’t be again soon. , I put in like, ‘cause all of the outlets are not, uh, tamperproof and these days they are like, they, you can’t put stuff in them. You don’t even have to put the little like, guards in there.

[00:47:22] Robbie Wagner: So I go and replace like every outlet in the house, like 50 outlets or whatever, and I’m like, oh, cool, that, that took a long time. All right, let’s move to a new house now. but I have a lot of experience doing like little bits of skills like that. Like I’m not gonna run a wire for a new outlet, but I can replace an outlet.

[00:47:40] Robbie Wagner: I have actually wired an entire house before, but that was with no walls up, it’s very easy when

[00:47:45] Robbie Wagner: there’s no

[00:47:46] Adam Argyle: that sounds a lot easier. Yeah.

[00:47:48] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:47:48] Robbie Wagner: So it’s like all of those things, it’s fun to like, I feel like every single job is fun for at least a couple days. Like I would like to do everything you can do and learn it just a little bit I mean, no one that doesn’t [00:48:00] really work ‘cause you can’t get paid to do a little bit of everything.

[00:48:02] Robbie Wagner: But,

[00:48:03] Adam Argyle: Yeah, But, that’s how you stay interested. You stay curious. Oh, that was something I came home from beyond Tele Rand, wanting to ensure that my children have an opportunity to do, which is to stay curious because it’s just so, , this world is just so, so huge. , You just gotta go around and try stuff. Be curious, and you gotta have, , the support, system to kind of let, let people do that.

[00:48:21] Adam Argyle: It’s

[00:48:21] Adam Argyle: awesome.

[00:48:22] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I mean that’s really a privilege to like be able to have the time to be curious. A lot of people don’t have that.

[00:48:29] Adam Argyle: Yeah. You gotta be time rich. , You gotta have the support system. Well, I only got two more topics. I don’t know what you got. You wanna

[00:48:35] Adam Argyle: whip

[00:48:35] Adam Argyle: one out?

[00:48:36] Robbie Wagner: I made no notes, so I don’t know. I just had a lot of stuff to say about things.

[00:48:40] Robbie Wagner: Oh. So I, I forgot, To continue my bad things that happened. So today,

[00:48:44] Adam Argyle: Oh, dang. There’s

[00:48:44] Robbie Wagner: are, uh, my dogs are throwing up everywhere, pooping everywhere, peeing everywhere. it’s like dinner time and Caitlyn is like, Hey, yeah, it’s, it’s the witching hour.

[00:48:54] Robbie Wagner: All the kids are going crazy. Can you come help? And I’m like, well, uh, I’m on [00:49:00] call this week. And, uh, I can’t be that mad ‘cause I broke production just right now. Like, yeah. So I fi I had to fix that for like an hour. I don’t know. I feel like it’s been a, you know, I mean, obviously there’s been good things and I’m trying to like focus on those, but I feel like there’s been a lot of like bad shit happening and like, you know, I don’t know how it all works with Karma or whatever.

[00:49:23] Robbie Wagner: Like Mercury was in retrograde for a while, but now it’s not. So what’s the excuse like.

[00:49:29] Adam Argyle: Dude, I don’t think you’re alone. I think, , everybody. Well, I don’t know. Everybody I know is feeling it. , I set up a call with someone just the other day ‘cause I, I’ve had this weird, , compelling vibe to like, send them an email and tell them I was struggling and it was this pressure thing. So it was like, Hey, I’m being pulled in every single direction.

[00:49:48] Adam Argyle: I know someone who I think that’s happened to and I’m just gonna write them a random ass email. And I wrote them an email, email and they were like, oh yeah, I’ve been there, dude. Let’s hang out on a call. , And that was really, really relieving. So I, I don’t, I don’t think you’re [00:50:00] alone there. I think that especially parenting, , sends you into some pretty wild swings.

[00:50:04] Adam Argyle: And even to, honestly, anybody who’s in a serious relationship has felt the same swings where you’re, the swing up is, holy shit, I love you so much. I can’t believe it. Like the, the rest of life sounds not long enough to spend with someone like you. And then something happens and then you’re like, you could leave my life right now.

[00:50:22] Adam Argyle: And, and I would be happy.

[00:50:25] Adam Argyle: I think, you know, or like, whatever. And same thing with like, like kids like, and

[00:50:28] Adam Argyle: I, I obviously, I, I feel like the, the stable and stronger of a person that someone is, they can like dial these things down and put them in perspective and figure ‘em out. But yo, like, when things are consistently ripping on you and whether they’re pushing in on you or pulling you away, that gets heavy.

[00:50:47] Adam Argyle: And I have a feeling that every single one of my friends are feeling it. All of my friends have kids right now too though. And dude being in tech is the shittiest it’s ever been. This is the weirdest and shittiest time. It’s also maybe the most magical with the five [00:51:00] coding thing. I, I don’t know.

[00:51:01] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:51:02] Adam Argyle: that I’m

[00:51:02] Adam Argyle: like oddly unfulfilled, but also fulfilled randomly, like

[00:51:06] Adam Argyle: the slot machine thing. I’m like, eh, I put a quarter and it

[00:51:08] Adam Argyle: worked.

[00:51:09] Robbie Wagner: Yes, it is. Like you get that dopamine hit of gambling, but you do not get the satisfaction of like, I built that thing, I took a month of my time and I thought it all out and I built it. Now it’s like, no, I’m just gonna spend a week vibe coding it and like you don’t get the joy at the end.

[00:51:25] Robbie Wagner: You get those little dopamine hits when it does something. Right. But you don’t get the like satisfaction at all when you’re

[00:51:31] Adam Argyle: Yeah. Yeah. The most jealous thing I’ve done in the past months or so as I went, went to a show with my spouse, we saw a phenomenal acoustic set, one microphone on the stage. no electronic instruments at all, just vocals. Acoustic instruments and I was like sitting there, I was like, this is the cool, this is the way, this is just like eating for the platform.

[00:51:53] Adam Argyle: I’m like, right, this isn’t a

[00:51:54] Adam Argyle: punk band playing power chords vibing. Oh, oh wait, we talked about that, right? With a,

[00:51:59] Adam Argyle: I can’t [00:52:00] remember his name, the famous guy, but he’s vibe coding power chords, right? He’s just saying vibe.

[00:52:03] Adam Argyle: Anyway, they’re up there with acoustic instruments, which are unforgiving as hell. They let every sound out and their microphone was just on point.

[00:52:12] Adam Argyle: And so it was picking up everything and I was like, this is the most beautiful and coolest human thing that we can do is sit here and make these wooden things come alive and move an entire room of humans. Like this is just so cool. So that’s the most jealous I’ve been is like somebody perfecting a craft that is not vibed in any way.

[00:52:31] Adam Argyle: Completely authentic, completely. It will only happen there at that one time. It disappears after that. Those sound waves won’t shoot through the air ever again. Oh man, I was very jealous. , It’s the opposite of vibe coding.

[00:52:43] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. I watch, uh, like Chris Coyer playing like instruments in a, a river or whatever. You’re like, this guy gets it.

[00:52:53] Adam Argyle: Yep.

[00:52:55] Robbie Wagner: I feel like I’ve. Feel a lot of pressure to continue [00:53:00] working all the time. Like I can always be marketing the podcast more. I can always be doing more open source. Like I don’t just sit down and play guitar, except for when Finn is like, Hey, you wanna play guitar? And I’m like, cool.

[00:53:11] Robbie Wagner: And I play. And then he goes, actually, I wouldn’t want, I want to take that from you and just slam on it. And I’m like, cool, I’ll play this ukulele that I don’t know how to play, but like it’s still fun.

[00:53:22] Adam Argyle: Yeah, that sounds right. I, I don’t, I wouldn’t say steal my practice, but, um. I, I don’t have set times, but like, uh, just before dinner, when the kids are randomly reading a book and there’s a piece in the house, I’ll go grab the instrument. I’ve been trying to play more holiday songs as we get

[00:53:36] Adam Argyle: closer to Christmas. but I would love more time and I have enough instruments. It’s like I want to sit down and grab one and then exhaust my time on the banjo and then grab the ukulele, and then I wanna exhaust my time on the ukulele and grab the guitar, , and then grab the drums and then play on the piano.

[00:53:52] Adam Argyle: that to me is the retirement happy place. Uh, and I’m not even close to there. I barely get, I, I haven’t watched, we watched Stranger Things. [00:54:00] It was amazing.

[00:54:00] Robbie Wagner: Hmm, no really good season. Yeah, no spoilers. Good season. We’re pretty happy. but man, if it’s, it’s so hard to schedule time to even just watch one show in a day.

[00:54:10] Adam Argyle: I’m up at six and I’m just down at, oh, man, it sucks.

[00:54:14] Robbie Wagner: we started Wednesday. , Not on Wednesday, but like the show Wednesday.

[00:54:18] Adam Argyle: The show Wednesday.

[00:54:19] Adam Argyle: Yeah,

[00:54:19] Adam Argyle: the first season. The first season’s. I

[00:54:21] Adam Argyle: loved

[00:54:22] Robbie Wagner: We finished the first season.

[00:54:23] Robbie Wagner: , But that was when we had one child. , So now, we’ve watched two episodes of season two in like, you know, the two or three months it’s been out and it’s just like impossible to have any time.

[00:54:34] Robbie Wagner: It’s crazy.

[00:54:35] Adam Argyle: we’ve, we’ve watched none. , My wife falls asleep now at most shows, so our TV went out in our room and we were just like, me. Leave it. Who cares?

[00:54:44] Adam Argyle: Like, who

[00:54:44] Adam Argyle: needs a

[00:54:45] Robbie Wagner: of my, yeah,

[00:54:46] Robbie Wagner: I’m spending all of my time fighting stupid shit like this part of more things that happened yesterday, you know, cyber Monday, it’s towards the end of the day trying to like get our last shopping in. I’m trying to order some stuff from Lego. [00:55:00] I’m a, you know, insider.

[00:55:01] Robbie Wagner: I have this little like, , they had like a little fish tank that was like a Lego Insider exclusive. You can just redeem one so it gets you like a code and you can do it, whatever. , So I did that. I went by with Apple Pay and it went no. And so I was like, cool, , I’ll just go do it again. It had removed that special item from my cart and it had said, you have used this code already so you can’t

[00:55:23] Robbie Wagner: do

[00:55:24] Robbie Wagner: it. And I said, fuck you. I am not accepting that I can’t get this. I’m calling your number. You’re open till 10. It’s 9 45. Let’s go bitches. And I was

[00:55:34] Robbie Wagner: like,

[00:55:35] Adam Argyle: Yeah,

[00:55:36] Robbie Wagner: I was like, like there’s so much that I can’t control that’s been stressing me out. I’m like, when there’s a thing I can get, I am getting that motherfucker.

[00:55:42] Adam Argyle: that thing is coming to my

[00:55:44] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. So it was like 9 57. I’m like, they’re not gonna answer Guy answers like, oh, thank God. So he was like, can you generate me a new code? He is like, yeah, absolutely. So he gave me a new code, got our order in. Like that’s one of the wins that we’ve

[00:55:57] Robbie Wagner: had.

[00:55:57] Robbie Wagner: But

[00:55:57] Robbie Wagner: like,

[00:55:58] Adam Argyle: ending. Oh

[00:55:59] Robbie Wagner: yeah. [00:56:00] Yeah. But it’s just like all those things try my patients so much, I’m just

[00:56:04] Robbie Wagner: oof.

[00:56:05] Adam Argyle: Yeah. That’s all. That’s all I feel like that is happening right now is things, trying my patients, not very many things relieving my patients. And , that was the weirdest thing about my, my trip. I was gone. I was away from the house. You’d think that somehow maybe that was like relieving. No, dude. It was the wildest, hardest business trip I’ve ever done.

[00:56:23] Adam Argyle: It was

[00:56:23] Adam Argyle: so

[00:56:24] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Well, that’s a lot of travel, which like, I don’t know if you like travel. I don’t, I don’t ever

[00:56:29] Robbie Wagner: love the

[00:56:29] Adam Argyle: like a dork dude. No. I like being somewhere new.

[00:56:32] Adam Argyle: Yes.

[00:56:32] Adam Argyle: But being

[00:56:33] Robbie Wagner: I don’t like

[00:56:33] Adam Argyle: hate.

[00:56:34] Adam Argyle: No. Yep.

[00:56:36] Robbie Wagner: yeah, Yeah. Especially with the, I guess, was everything like closed down during that? Like there was the shutdown still happening, like, so you couldn’t, like TSA sucked or

[00:56:45] Robbie Wagner: whatever,

[00:56:46] Adam Argyle: surprisingly, I skimmed through almost every airport, so I was early to almost everywhere. In fact, I was super early to a couple places. . Which wasn’t bad. , I would rather be there early and have like relief, but I swear that’s how I got my cold. I came home with a cold [00:57:00] and I’m pretty sure it’s ‘cause I was at the airport early and just sat surrounded by coughing, dorks, and

[00:57:05] Robbie Wagner: yeah,

[00:57:05] Adam Argyle: whatever they have.

[00:57:06] Adam Argyle: Yeah,

[00:57:07] Robbie Wagner: yeah. I don’t care anymore. Like I’m just gonna be sick until there’s no children living in this house. So like. I used to be like, oh God, that guy, that guy, he’s like, he’s clearing his throat over there. Like, I can’t be near that guy. Like, but now I’m just like, oh, well it doesn’t matter. Like you got COVID, let’s hang out, bro.

[00:57:21] Robbie Wagner: Like, it’s good.

[00:57:23] Adam Argyle: yeah. Hey, you gotta keep those white blood cells strong. We’re we’re happy that like our kids have not been sick much recently. We went through when your kids are rug rats when they’re literally crawling on the ground and going to school and crawling on the ground and getting dirt all day. Yeah.

[00:57:36] Adam Argyle: You, there’s colds coming to your house all the time and we’re finally through that. It’s been really nice.

[00:57:42] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Finn spent probably more than 10 minutes on the floor of a Mexican restaurant last

[00:57:48] Robbie Wagner: night,

[00:57:48] Adam Argyle: Hmm. Yeah. Lovely.

[00:57:50] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:57:53] Robbie Wagner: Uh, yeah, that was another thing. I forgot all the kids were sick and I was starting to get sick and I just pounded a [00:58:00] ton of emergencies so that I could just wield it away, but like. yeah, that was another thing. ‘cause like the kids, like the little babies are like, , I have a, you know, ton of chest congestion.

[00:58:08] Robbie Wagner: I’m just gonna be awake all the time. And I’m like, love it. Thank you.

[00:58:13] Adam Argyle: Yeah. I’m just looking at you, you know. Hi. Hi, dad. Hey, I’m awake now. I’m here and I’m still awake. You are

[00:58:19] Adam Argyle: like, yes, you are

[00:58:20] Robbie Wagner: Oh, okay. Yeah, we are over an hour. We can keep chatting if you want. I don’t care. I mean, it’s the end of the

[00:58:26] Adam Argyle: perfect. It’s perfect. No, this is all good. , It’s really nice to sh I mean, there’s tons of, I I need to talk about TPAC at some point, so maybe that’ll be the next one. and then, yeah, I, I, I kind of briefly mentioned that I gave a talk at Beyond Tele Ran. It’s about, using MIDI to cause CSS animations.

[00:58:42] Adam Argyle: I was really upset that like WebGL tries to follow the sound wave that’s like as good as it can do. It’s like a follower. And I wanted something that like was more directly linked, also something more authentic to me, very CSS related. And so I played banjo, recorded it onto a teenage engineering, , KO two, [00:59:00] and then performed some live songs with those banjo moments.

[00:59:03] Adam Argyle: , That all powered a visual. So anyway, this is pretty silly. Pretty fun. check my website, nerdy dev for links to that. Man.

[00:59:10] Adam Argyle: Yeah,

[00:59:11] Adam Argyle: I’m excited though for this lull. I want a lull.

[00:59:13] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I was, I was curious. Do you think you could do, I haven’t looked at advent of code. I, I always mean to, but then I never do. Do you think you could do it all in CSS? Has anyone tried it?

[00:59:24] Adam Argyle: You mean like a, where you’ve got like a big grid and they’re, they’re all in different places,

[00:59:29] Adam Argyle: or is there a specific

[00:59:30] Robbie Wagner: no. There’s this like, advent of code happens every year and it’s like every day.

[00:59:34] Robbie Wagner: It’s like an advent calendar. So you have, , like a challenge per day. The first one’s usually like. The elves need to like, , send a message of Hello world or like, you know, a easy first one and you just pick a language and you like, know, implement it.

[00:59:48] Robbie Wagner: So all it has to do is print whatever it’s supposed to and it like, it counts. So I’m like, you know, if we wanna say CSS is a programming language, could you do it all in cs? I might not let you do it all in css. I don’t know how it works, but,

[00:59:59] Adam Argyle: [01:00:00] Kind of looks like a CLI right now, but I don’t know, it sounds like we could make the CSS advent calendar where everything is CSS specific and you’d

[01:00:08] Robbie Wagner: I So they have that too. , Well kind of. They ha there’s one, I think it was a year or two ago I saw they basically have like 24 Figma designs and they’re like, implement these. which is kind of fun too. But

[01:00:22] Adam Argyle: Oh, I

[01:00:22] Robbie Wagner: the obvious CSS usage though, like, can you do the, the programming heavy one with CSS?

[01:00:29] Robbie Wagner: I think that would be fun.

[01:00:32] Adam Argyle: Ooh, I agree. Uh, ‘cause cs, oh, will just have to be another topic for another time. But like one time I did a, , CSS in Js, but like, In a way that was like, let’s rewrite what CSS is doing with JavaScript, because even just a class selector is a recursive crawl filter. and in order to implement it, it actually takes a whole bunch of code, a whole bunch of JavaScript just to select something by a class name.

[01:00:56] Adam Argyle: And then if you want to select a class name and then another filter or some [01:01:00] other modifier, you start to realize just how powerful, , CSS is, which is kind of cool.

[01:01:05] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[01:01:06] Adam Argyle: Anyway, yeah. We should stop before we just kind of kick right into another topic ‘cause

[01:01:10] Robbie Wagner: Yes. Yeah. All right. Yeah, Lots more we can talk about next time. Thanks everyone for listening. If you like it, please subscribe. Leave us some ratings and reviews. We appreciate it, and we will catch you next time.

[01:01:20] Adam Argyle: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm mm

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