Whiskey Web and Whatnot

A whiskey fueled fireside chat with your favorite web developers.


100: Whiskey Web and Whatnot 100th Episode Round Table with Chris Coyier, Scott Tolinski, Tracy Lee, and Wes Bos

Show Notes

In this milestone 100th episode, Chuck and Robbie are joined by a round table of industry experts and web developers with different philosophies, preferences, and experiences in the tech space to share their opinions on the state of web development. The round table includes Chris Coyier, Co-Founder of CodePen; Scott Tolinski, former Owner of Level Up Tutorials; Tracy Lee, CEO and Co-Founder of This Dot Labs; and Wes Bos, Founder of BosType Inc.

The panel shares their opinions on the state of web development, reflecting on the journey from vanilla JavaScript to the rise of Tailwind CSS. They delve into the impact of Tailwind CSS on modern web development, discuss exciting new front-end APIs like the View Transitions API and Anchor Positioning API, and emphasize the importance of mastering JavaScript fundamentals.

In this episode, Robbie and Chuck bring industry experts together for a captivating discussion filled with valuable insights on the evolution of front-end development, new web technologies, and their interests outside of web development.

Key Takeaways

  • [01:43] - An introduction to the round table of industry experts.
  • [03:47] - A whiskey review: Sagamore and Benchmark.
  • [07:00] - Tech hot takes.
  • [21:14] - Scott’s experience using popover API.
  • [23:18] - Chuck discusses Chris’ talk at RenderATL.
  • [24:38] - How ChatGPT is negatively affecting Mozilla Firefox.
  • [28:21] - What each guest would do if they weren’t in web development?
  • [32:46] - Interesting topics on Chuck’s Twitter feed.
  • [40:46] - What makes a milk?


[09:11] - “CSS is getting so complex now that it has to be compiled.” ~ Wes Bos

[23:15] - “Yeah, man, HTML rules.” ~ Scott Tolinski

[25:33] - “People stopped using Google as much, they’re going to AI.” ~ Wes Bos


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[00:00:00] Robbie: What's going on everybody? This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. With myself, RobbieTheWagner, and my co-host, as always, Charles William Carpenter III. So yeah, We tried to have, Kelly Vaughn, Chris Coyier, Scott Tolinski, Wes Bos, and Tracy, I'm blanking on Tracy's last name, Lee. Yeah, yeah. Um, it's fine. We're, we do what we want. We,

[00:00:29] Chuck: Yeah. Uh, and.

[00:00:31] Robbie: frazzled today. I will

[00:00:32] Chuck: Yep. Some, some folks we try to have some folks on and record all at the same time. And, when you need to have many Internets working well, , often that's not the case. I guess we just need to realize that even in 2023, internet speeds are a problem and infrastructure as an issue. But we try to have some, fun folks on and. Talk whiskey and speak about many other internet things. Unfortunately we were only able to cobble together about 30 minutes of it and we lost Kelly and all of that. So sorry. Kel Chicken Cock. Um, enjoy what you're about to hear.

[00:01:07] Robbie: What's going on everybody? Welcome to another Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Special hundredth episode edition with lots of fancy guests. And myself, RobbieTheWagner, and my co-host, as always, Charles William Carpenter III. So yeah.

[00:01:26] Chuck: of what, what? I dunno. I'm seeing all

[00:01:28] Robbie: cuz there's so many people.

[00:01:29] Chuck: the Brady Bunch. Yes.

[00:01:30] Robbie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't really know how to introduce this many people. Let's just go through, and for most people have probably heard of all of you, but if you wanna give a quick intro into who you are, we'll start with Chris.

[00:01:41] Chris: Hey, what's up? Thanks for having me guys. I just saw you in person just the other week and, and, and Kelly and Scott and Tracy. Oh my God. Everybody but Wes, sorry buddy. You you missed Render. It's the place, it's the fricking place to be, man. I own and operate a website called CodePen.

[00:02:00] That's my fame and fortune at the moment, and uh, I'm glad to be here. Congratulations on a hundred too, by the way, fella. It's a big

[00:02:07] Robbie: Thanks.

[00:02:08] Chuck: yeah, it's a lot of free time is what it is, Chris. Thank you though. All righty. Actually brings us to Scott.

[00:02:16] Scott: Hey, what's up? My name is Scott Tolinski. I am the co-host of the Syntax podcast and formerly of Level Up Tutorials.

[00:02:23] Chuck: Okay. And Tracy.

[00:02:28] Tracy: So every time you like decide who goes next, you have to like count the alphabet in your head.

[00:02:35] Chuck: That's, the

[00:02:35] Tracy: I see the eyes. My name's Tracy. You can follow me on Twitter at Ladyleet. I am the co-founder of a company called ThisDotLabs. We do a lot of stuff in the open source world specifically JavaScript. So I'm also co-host of a, a podcast called Modern Web and build it Better. And yeah, if you ever wanna hang out, I'm still on Twitter, y'all.

[00:02:57] Chuck: There's no shame in that. [00:03:00] Last but not least,

[00:03:01] Wes: Hey, uh, my name. All right, I'll take it over. My name's Wes Bos. I am a full stack dev from Canada and I, along with Scott, we run the Syntax podcast which recently has joined Sentry. Pretty excited about that, and I also make web development courses online.

[00:03:17] Robbie: Cool, cool. I'm assuming that Chuck is waiting for me to try to say something at points, but my dogs have been going nuts in the background, so I've been muted, so sorry for that. But uh,

[00:03:28] Chuck: Oh, okay. Well, it sounds like there's a co-host spot available. Anyone interested in applying? The pay is terrible. Other than whiskey, free whiskey all you want? Speaking of whiskey, so we're uh, not gonna dwell too long on the whiskey, although this is a Whiskey, Web, and Whatnot podcast, so we have to talk about it a little bit and encourage folks to make bad decisions and drink while they work and talk. So coming back around to the Sagamore Barrel pick that we did forever ago, feels like years ago at this point, but still an oldie, but a goodie. So the stats [00:04:00] on that one are 110 proof aged seven years, and it's a blend of two straight rye mash bills. And I guess we never got into the details of what those separate mash bills were, but

[00:04:11] Tracy: Did you just get to decide though? Like were you like...

[00:04:14] Chuck: Well, at least Robbie did they can't mail it in two different places, apparently only one place. It's really hard to enter two addresses and two separate packages. So he got to go through taste from three or four different barrels. And then just made a uh, educated guess at what I would like from there.

[00:04:30] Robbie: So yeah, for the, the whiskey they sent me three barrel ones and I didn't mix them. It was just like getting straight from each of those barrels, so deciding which one tasted the best and one had like a ton of like charred stuff floating in it. And I was like, I'm gonna say not that one, cuz that doesn't look fun to drink. The other one tasted kind of scotchy and this one was not scotchy. So that's how I picked it.

[00:04:53] Tracy: It's very sweet smelling.

[00:04:55] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's good. It's, it's true to Sagamore's like normal [00:05:00] rye. I would say it's a little different, but kind of in line with their normal offering.

[00:05:04] Chuck: that's true. Tracy, you haven't been able to taste it as of yet. I wonder what, what, what, what notes do you get in the smell though?

[00:05:11] Tracy: I got, let's see. I don't know. What would you consider it? I just smell sugar. Sugar. I don't, I don't, feel like there's a lot of alcohol. Like it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not, there's not a lot of heat coming out of the, the scent at least. Right.

[00:05:24] Chris: Isn't it 110 proof? That should be some alcohol

[00:05:27] Chuck: it is. Yeah. So

[00:05:29] Scott: a lot of heat coming off 110

[00:05:30] Tracy: it is, it is hot.

[00:05:32] Chuck: It's uh, so just has a high proof, in the very least, but not like an overwhelming amount of burn. I feel like it's a nice, sweet spot. I need at least a hundred proof for me because I've burn, burned off so many taste buds at this point in life. When you start getting 120, 130, it gets to be a little much,

[00:05:48] Tracy: I, I can see that now. I, mean, I'm comparing it to Weller the Weller special reserve, the Green Label, and it's 90 proof. And I can definitely see how the Sagamore is definitely like a [00:06:00] little, a little hotter on the nose, but it's so subtle, right? Like it's not like, oh my gosh, I just have,

[00:06:06] Chuck: Yum.

[00:06:07] Tracy: alcohol swab up my nose. I dunno how else to describe it.

[00:06:11] Chuck: Those aren't usually the tastiest ones. So we're not gonna go through the whole like tentacle thing unless anybody really is missing out on that. Just in general, just talking about like, those of us of course, who get to enjoy it. Right now I am forgetful and didn't have a bottle at the office. So I'm having something else. I'm gonna say it's not as good as Sagamore, though it's some Benchmark bottled in bond. So the hundred proof version of Benchmark. And what I like about Benchmark is it's like under 20 bucks. But actually still pretty tasty. And then a shame to, to grab that. I don't know if I'd make it my, my first choice, but not a bad one for what it is. And definitely a good like cocktail starter. I give it a four tentacles. Anyway. We can, we can move on and talk, talk a little tech. What do you think Robbie?

[00:06:54] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah. Do we want to do these hot takes or just move into the other general

[00:06:58] Tracy: Ooh, hot [00:07:00] takes. But what is a hot take these days though? Like, do you guys have Hot Takes prepared or like,

[00:07:04] Robbie: yeah, I mean, it's general stuff like who likes Tailwind or not. I'm probably in the minority of this group in liking it,

[00:07:12] Tracy: We did a modern web podcast. I don't know if Robbie and Chuck, y'all were there, but I thought it was gonna be a hot, spicy one and it was. It was Tailwind or No, and everybody said yes to Tailwind.

[00:07:23] Chris: I'll say no. Everybody said yes. I'll say no just

[00:07:26] Tracy: Everyone said yes.

[00:07:28] Chuck: I, I say I don't care enough. Honestly. I have no like,

[00:07:32] Chris: Oh, that's even less spicy. You're horrible at this. This is a podcast, Chuck. You gotta out

[00:07:39] Chuck: no, I, I'll go, I'll go on Twitter later and say UNO, css, or whatever that other one is. It's like, just like it, but different

[00:07:47] Robbie: The

[00:07:48] Scott: Yeah. Uno. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:51] Chuck: It, it's got like three different things and it comes out of the next community, I think, which makes it better automatically. Right.

[00:07:57] Chris: Well, those of you that use it a lot, I am curious of it. What [00:08:00] do you, okay, here's a, there's this new API called the View Transitions api. It's super cool. I'm sure anybody that follows CSS at all is like, oh, that's hot stuff. Right? And one of the jobs you have with that API is unique identifiers. You have to. Attach a unique name to different developments. You could just make up the name, but it's gotta be unique. You know, I would think a utility class is especially horrible at that, cuz now you have this one-off pair that, that should not and cannot be replicated lest you break the entire api. Cause no two can be the same. Otherwise you've ruined it. I'm not trying to say, oh that's an example of Tailwind sucking cuz is, it's true that and I just, cuz I have no production Tailwind things. I'm curious, I. It doesn't matter. I can write some additional CSS also. Right? I still have a style sheet that I type random CSS stuff into that gets compiled all together, right? It's not stopping me from using this api, right? It just also has utility classes that I can use,

[00:08:55] Wes: Like the just in time compiler, what most of you might think about Tailwind, which is [00:09:00] the set of classes, and you can pick from them. , CSS is getting so complex now that it has to be compiled. So basically you write this syntax of classes and then it'll compile to the equivalent css because like, like you said, like if you want to be able to put in a custom has selector or a view transition, whatever, you are kind of

[00:09:21] Chris: Yeah, or a scope selector or a container query. It just seems like there's more and more CSS that's harder to turn into utilities.

[00:09:30] Scott: Yeah,

[00:09:30] Wes: it's true. It's all kind of possible, but it's certainly, at least in my opinion, some of that more advanced stuff is a little easier to write there.

[00:09:39] Scott: As somebody who had like a hot take about Tailwind on Twitter , and felt the full wrath of the Tailwind community, I can tell you exactly what they appreciate most about Tailwind is that. The consistency, which you can obviously get from like variables, right? So it's the consistency. A lot of people like it just for component based scoping, one of the things I [00:10:00] heard a lot was, well, you must love separation of concerns. That's like, no, I just write single file components and scope my CSS to that component. So people like conflate Tailwind a lot with writing, like component-based c s s, but also with like design systems that are built in there for you. And then a lot of people just like that. It makes a a thousand decisions for you so you don't have to think about it. So, I think there's like a, a number of things, but I heard those things over and over again. Where, where I, I don't know if like people just haven't used other systems or maybe the Tailwind was the first thing they used beyond vanilla, a lot of it, it comes down to scoping in control and then consistency.

[00:10:37] Chris: They don't like it when you say that you're bumper bowling with css. They, even though

[00:10:41] Scott: Okay. I don't like it when you say very many things about it.

[00:10:45] Tracy: Isn't it very much though? It's just like, I feel like it's just like, what is the current trend, right? Like inline CSS is the best thing ever. Before though, like, you know, two months ago, it's like, oh no it wasn't. And I've [00:11:00] been talking about like a few years ago, right? But then everybody got on the like inline CSS train and here we are with another trend and

[00:11:08] Wes: I, don't think it's a trend. If it was a trend, it would've gone away by now. I know so many people I respect that are like, no, this is great. I can move from project to project. It's the same across every project. I have 13 different ways to declare padding, and that's it. It keeps it replicatable and I can jump into anything and I totally get all that. And it's so frustrating to hear people on either side of the argument, not understand why somebody uses it. And or people who don't hate it say, oh, it's messy. Both sides are being silly.

[00:11:40] Chuck: And also there's the aspect that people have a lot of people, not everybody, and you don't have to, but a lot of people have literally bought in. So now what, you know, was I wrong? Did I waste my money? Like,

[00:11:52] Chris: Oh, interesting. You, because there's a paid component of it that that affects your brain space. You're a little bit like, oh, I already shelled out 150 bucks on [00:12:00] these components. I'm, I at least say that I like them.

[00:12:03] Robbie: So like you can put it in any app and any framework and like you can do that with CSS too, but then you gotta set up like your SAS or whatever, and all your build stuff and versus just kind of copying all the classes over. I don't know. I like the

[00:12:15] Tracy: it's artisanal. I'm kidding. But it's, it's, it is kind of funny to see how like, you know, again, going back to, you know, I started getting into JavaScript around 2015 you know, there was a lot of debates, , angular versus React for example, of no, we shouldn't have everything due, everything for us. And, react is better cuz you could just write JavaScript and it's awesome. And then, you know, I feel like generally just all of JavaScript has all agreed that like frameworks, meta frameworks, we're talking about tailwinds, like having things that just make your life a lot easier is, what we are bought into these days.

[00:12:55] Wes: We were looking at an online store for Syntax, so we were like going [00:13:00] through like possible pick and pack vendors. And there was this one really good logistics company that was like, perfect. They did everything we want, but we had to use their storefront, and I'm not lying. They had two versions of jQuery on their, their front, and it was just like, oh gosh. Like it was like nine years old tech, and I couldn't believe it. jQuery. jQuery wasn't bad. It's just that we don't need it anymore. You know, like, it's not like we realize that there's a better way, I guess. Like, like frameworks are a better way, but like it's jQuery versus vanilla, not jQuery versus React

[00:13:35] Chuck: Jake jQuery was about gluing together the issues with the browser wars, right? It was about getting yourself away a path forward, past all this, like, oh, this is the IE six thing or whatever.

[00:13:49] Chris: It was, find something, do something. And there's problems both with finding and doing.

[00:13:53] Chuck: I would argue with probably no one that we have this problem a little bit for those who got [00:14:00] into development in the last like few years or so. And then probably went through like, an accelerator or something else because people aren't learning JavaScript. They're learning React. So they can go and get a React job because that's the success metric out of those things. And then, when folks need to like understand the actual APIs there to the browser and JavaScript, they're like, oh, I'm really screwed and I'm kind of starting over. Right. Walking that back is, is a difficult paradigm.

[00:14:27] Tracy: I, I went straight into Ember. I remember I was coding and, going into a boot camp and, my boyfriend at the time was like, Looking at me and I was like creating all these cute little images with marque tags, you know, my first week. And he is like, ah, should I give it to you or not? And then he like showed me Ember, and I was like, this is magical. And I just like built tons of websites that weekend, you know, and hello material. So, I don't know. I mean, I think it really helped me, but, fundamentals. Yeah. I [00:15:00] still remember even going through that. I made uh, Ben Lesh, I went to Netflix and I was like, okay, Ben, everyone's excited about this Rx Js thing. And I was like, teach me Rx js. What is it? And I remember sitting down with him and he looks at me and he's like, let's, let's try the vanilla Javascript first. but without a framework, right? It's like I wouldn't have been able to, my uptick would've been, Slower in a sense, right? So getting productive quickly was really satisfying,

[00:15:29] Chris: Let's say you're gonna use nothing. You know, like, as Wes said, it's, it's like jQuery versus vanilla, right? We're not in a world where we're templating a bunch of HTML. If that's the case, then fine use the framework, but, you're about to sit down and write some vanilla js. That has a find something, do something spirit to it. Like let's say it's a click to copy, right? You need JavaScript to do that a little. You put a little button and you want to click it, so you're gonna copy the crap out of a text area or whatever. I feel like the temptation is to make a JavaScript file and then write. Copy button equals document doc query [00:16:00] selector or maybe all depending on what you're doing. And then, and then attach it, do an ad event listener to the click and then do the thing. I remember back in the early days before it was decided that it was uncool is to just put an onClick handler right in html and then that was crucified. But then in, of course in jsx, it's the only way to do it. You know? Like, fuck yeah, we onClick everything, but why not? Can, can is onClick back? Can we like screw query selector? Why even bother with query selector? Just put the click handler right on the fricking HTML.

[00:16:32] Chuck: Or on click in the HTML. But see that was the thing is like it, it's funny how these things become cyclical or you know, faddish or whatever else because there's so many different ways to solve problems on the web. And I

[00:16:46] Chris: was that there's, there's two fi now that there's two pieces of code in totally different files that are tied at the hip and they're easier to break because,

[00:16:55] Chuck: Right, but you know, you were around in the web standards movement, right? Where it's [00:17:00] like, CSS is its own thing and HTML is its own thing and JavaScript is its own thing. And let's stop like polluting these files with all this crazy stuff and it's hard to kind of parse as a human. And we fought. And we fought and we got that. And then React came along and was like, hold on a second. Maybe we can put a little of those, couple of those together. It's not terrible cuz we're winning some things. And then now we mesh, mush, mush, mush, mush all the things together. But then I would just wonder if we're starting to kind of see another side of that other than Ember, of course Robbie, cuz it's gonna be separate all the time. you know, server render becoming so good now and transition APIs and all these things kind of making some of the niceties that we like and we've gotten used to. Have us look at, well, what we are doing in PHP. I think that's what they talk about in Twitter is what we, what we are doing with PHP and, and other things. Actually, it's not so bad anymore and let's server render everything and we'll just, we'll still use the languages we're using now, but servers are fast and [00:18:00] distributed and I don't know where I was going with this. I think we're supposed to learn Rust at the end of this podcast though. That's where we, what we, go and do.

[00:18:06] Tracy: It's funny, I have a team and. They, uh, gonna help do JavaScript things and, you know, sometimes I'm like, oh, but you know, I have to stop myself cuz it's like, oh, but like five years ago this person was mad at this person and like, oh, you did this and, but did you know that this person, you know, this is, this is this. And there's drama here. It's like, for us, we have like all this baggage of like, you know, well this was cool before, no, it's not cool. And now this is cool, you know, but it's like beginner is like, do they care? Should they care? You know, does it matter?

[00:18:39] Chuck: they don't have all that, they don't have all the baggage. Right. And a lot of great tools. So good for them. Now, but sometimes, I mean, do you ever feel like kind of like, get off my lawn and do do it this way?

[00:18:49] Chris: If there's a little rollercoaster and it's like, oh, that was cool, and then, and then it got uncool and there's stuff getting, I mean, that's kind of the way your, that was your point, right? Chuck? Is the things kind of. Come in and out of [00:19:00] fashion and development is, are there things that aren't like that? Are there things now that are just better? I mean, surely there must be tons of it, right?

[00:19:08] Chuck: I was gonna say like, the fact that I would assemble websites in tables with images sliced up from Photoshop, I would argue that like semantic HTML and

[00:19:18] Chris: HTML's better.

[00:19:20] Chuck: it's better, right? It's gotten it, it we're never cycling back to that. I don't think that's ever happening again for presentation purposes, right? So like, I

[00:19:28] Chris: been a hot minute though. I don't think I ever even, I, I'm, I'm as old school as I feel, I never wrote tables for layout.

[00:19:34] Chuck: I mean, Microsoft now, you know, they're bringing us some nice things, some shiny things these days, but they are the purveyors of everything bad on, on the internet and computers for quite some time.

[00:19:46] Scott: But also they brought a lot of good stuff too.

[00:19:48] Tracy: Yeah, everything bad and everything good

[00:19:50] Scott: to have CSS.

[00:19:51] Chuck: They did the TypeScript thing. Uh, well, I mean, collectively, how do we feel about Typescript?

[00:19:57] Scott: Love

[00:19:57] Wes: big

[00:19:58] Tracy: I love it.

[00:19:59] Robbie: Yep. Does anyone [00:20:00] not like it?

[00:20:00] Tracy: See, my issue was that I learned in TypeScript. So I'm like what do you mean no type? I don't, I don't know what's happening here. I was taught that you never use an any, so anytime anybody says use it, any, which I think is now like, you know, okay. Or it's like, you know, okay these days, no, It's not okay. to use an any. Don't just put an any on it.

[00:20:21] Wes: rarely. Yeah.

[00:20:23] Tracy: I was taught to never use an any, so that's, but sometimes I'm like, well, maybe people are using it. maybe it's okay now. I don't know.

[00:20:30] Chuck: Un unknown's a little more favorable, even though it's like you're, you're saying like, I have no idea at this point. And hopefully I clean that up later on. And any is like, I don't know, don't care.

[00:20:40] Tracy: saw this cute meme last night of the Practical Dev. He was posting some things on Instagram and it was Typescript, and basically it was like a picture of like, a man standing next to a house with a dog and everything was labeled like, house, dog, man shirt, pants. It's like, yeah, that's what TypeScript looks like.

[00:20:58] Chuck: I will take any [00:21:00] house, any pants, any man, Tracy. I don't know. Anyway.

[00:21:04] Scott: On the topic of the HTML getting better, I've been using the popover API today and man, that stuff rules popover and anchor, where you have like an anchor to anchor position something

[00:21:17] Chris: It's only HTML, right? Or is there a CSS component to it?

[00:21:20] Scott: oh, it's just HTML, but I'm having to, so there's a polyfill and it does not like play. Super nice. So you do have to do a little bit of CSS work to get it to play nice everywhere, especially with this like top layer thing. So the top layer's, like a new Z index thing, it just kind of sits on top of everything for, for popups and stuff. And it's, it's been pretty sick. But like moments before coming on to this podcast, I've been debugging and debugging and debugging. Cause I, I couldn't get it to work in Safari. And sure enough, Safari preferences, disabled JavaScript was checked or whatever. I, it's like the worst.

[00:21:55] Chris: but Oh, that's weird though, because it's an HTML thing, but

[00:21:58] Scott: It, well, it's ju it's just cuz of the

[00:22:00] polyfill.

[00:22:00] Chuck: Your poly fell forward or

[00:22:02] Scott: Yeah. It's in the technology preview. But I'm, I'm running in the, the straight up version of

[00:22:06] Chris: I've heard of that though. Haven't you seen? There's some, there's, I, I wish I could think of it right off the top of my head, but there's some technologies where you turn off JavaScript. They, oh, I know what it is. It's image lazy loading. You turn off JavaScript, lazy loading images, which is exclusively a, a Java HTML concern. Stops working Does it do edge detection? Like if you pop over something and you're, it's really close to the top of the browser window, does it open downwards instead or does it not

[00:22:32] Scott: you can, that's a good question. There is like some j I think you'd probably have to use JavaScript for that, but they, the anchor positioning API is really what I think you would use that for. And that's actually like a really wild API. There's like an anchor function and you're passing it again, like a unique identifier and then giving it like a top right position or whatever. So you, you're trying to anchor it to something like a tool tip, right? You're anchoring it to the, the word, but it is a wild api. Just started diving into the, I [00:23:00] couldn't get the polyfill for that working on every browser, but, so I, I'm just using straight up JavaScript and CSS to mess with it, but, Yeah, man. HTML rules.

[00:23:09] Chuck: Yeah, the say basic html and then I, I watched Chris's talk at render and he was talking about a lot of really interesting CSS stuff. Cause I picked up, like Una talked a whole bunch about the popover api and I was like, that is super cool into that. Chris, you were talking about, I don't know, maybe it takes very little to impress me. I don't know, but the masonry layout for grid. I was like, and I know it's just a Firefox thing right now, cuz I was like, rushed right over. I was like, oh, I can do this right away. Ah, shit. Not totally yet, but that thing is awesome. Like some of the

[00:23:42] Chris: I caught some flack for that only cuz it's, it's, it's just flagged in Firefox. I thought it was not flagged. But anyway, but I was saved by Jen Simmons cuz she, her WWDC talk, which you should watch if you haven't seen it. Covers a lot of also really great CSS stuff opened with that. And I was like, oh, thank [00:24:00] God. So it now I don't look like an idiot talking about something that may never be real, you know? It's like, dude, they put that on stage at WWDC, so I think I'm cool, you know?

[00:24:09] Chuck: yeah, I think, I think it's gonna go somewhere. I think it's got legs and people want it. I liked a lot of the other aspects around thinking about your content internationally from your talk. But then again, You brought out the sexy with that for me in the end, like later on I was like, oh yeah, but this thing, this masonry thing up Pinterest. I don't know. I still, I like it,

[00:24:29] Scott: my hot take is that Firefox has been getting a lot less of the new features that I want quickly enough. Like every time I want to use something, it's Firefox. That's the problem.

[00:24:39] Chris: I can't believe they ship anything at all. Didn't I was at one point I feel like they fired everybody under the

[00:24:44] Wes: Yeah. They fired like everybody,

[00:24:46] Tracy: I've never felt like the Firefox team has been like as visible. I feel like as. We can only talk about Microsoft and Google, I suppose, since Apple's also,

[00:24:55] Wes: oh, they were like king when Grid and Flexbox came out. Like it was all [00:25:00] Firefox for everything, you know,

[00:25:01] Scott: the dev, even the, yeah, the dev tools are still way better.

[00:25:05] Tracy: so what happened?

[00:25:07] Wes: they're running outta money, so the people don't know this, but the way that. Mozilla makes money is from Google Ads. It's like 95% of their budget is, people use Firefox, they search for stuff on Google, and you click an ad on Google, they get a good chunk of that money and that's going away. people stop using Google as much as they're going to AI and uh,

[00:25:28] Tracy: like, I know how to kill Firefox. I'm just gonna kill this program.

[00:25:35] Wes: I don't even think, like, no, sorry, it's not going away, but like, I, I think the income from that is becoming less and less. and I, I, imagine in as regular people start using ChatGPT to search stuff instead of Google. They're like, Mozilla has to find another way to make money.

[00:25:54] Chuck: I would say I'm a, I'm about 60/40, right? Like tech things [00:26:00] and I don't know, professional things. Definitely ChatGPT, normal stuff, like I. Oh, IMDB who's in this movie? I'm still going to, to Google for like

[00:26:10] Tracy: But ChatGPT is so funny because now it'll be like, I, I'll be like, who is this person? And it's like, well, if this person is important now, I don't know, because my info only goes back to like September, 2021. Right? So it's like it's being smarter about its responses because it's getting so much crap about. You're supposed to know, but you don't know. I guess GPT is supposed to know, but doesn't know.

[00:26:31] Chuck: Right, right. They don't understand the training model. Depends on like

[00:26:34] Chris: say ChatGPT though, do, do you literally go to OpenAI? Do you just go to the straight up, go to chat.openai.com

[00:26:41] Scott: a chat that open, AI Open all the time. Yeah.

[00:26:45] Wes: I, I use. It via Raycast. So Raycast has like a chat extension and it's just it doesn't have any of the like plugins or anything like that, but it's just faster for me just to hit the keyboard shortcut immediately open [00:27:00] it in and just type

[00:27:02] Chris: But you gotta put your API key in?

[00:27:02] Wes: Tailwind. Let's talk about that. If you, yeah, you can put a hockey in and type ai, or you can assign one. And I was just like typing like Tailwind padding, Tailwind font sizes. The most frustrating thing is waiting for it to type out the actual values in front of you rather than just show it immediately. But I thought that was fake, but it turns out they're actually streaming the results.

[00:27:23] Tracy: This is funny cuz like I just typed in, is Tailwind popular and it says yes. As of my knowledge cut off in September, 2021, Tailwind CSS is a popular utility for CSS framework.

[00:27:36] Robbie: So it'll always be popular.

[00:27:36] Scott: Yeah, I've, I had to tell it to just shut up about the, your knowledge date cutoff. I know your knowledge date cutoff. It's always I get it. Stop. Stop telling me every time.

[00:27:45] Tracy: But it's hard because it's like, can you do that? Can you shut that off?

[00:27:48] Scott: you can tell it anything you want. Yeah. Say please. I, I've, I've told it like, please, I don't need your, your fluff. Just give me the code, give me a short description if I need that. Like, I mean, I tell it nicely. I try to be nice to, it

[00:27:59] Tracy: say [00:28:00] please and thank you.

[00:28:01] Scott: has, it's gonna remember

[00:28:04] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:28:05] Scott: Yeah. When I, when I got my head in the guillotine. Yeah. And I said I was, I said, please, and thank you. So, you know, you spare me, please. I would probably take up like motion graphics or video something. I worked as a video editor before professionally before getting into like my first dev job. That was kind of my career path before I, I, I got, my first dev job was doing, I was an editor, but I, I was trying to break into motion graphics, so I, I did a lot of 3D work, motion graphics, 3D stuff, and I, I was like on firmly on the after effects career path. I, I really enjoy that stuff. So that's probably what I would do.

[00:28:37] Tracy: I don't know. I guess if money didn't matter, I would try to make my child a billionaire in the next three years. But every time his modeling opportunities come up, I'm like, I have to work. I can't take three days off just for your modeling career. Granted, he'll get paid, but Ah, it's so hard.

[00:28:59] Wes: [00:29:00] Man, what would I, I would probably be that guy that is always into weird entrepreneurial pursuits. I would have like a dumpster rental company or a screen printing company or something bizarre like that because like as much as I am, yeah, as much as I am a web developer, I'm a figure out how to make money at stuff. You know, that was always me as a kid trying to figure out how to make a buck. So I would probably have gotten into something, something really weird and probably something that's not as glamorous as web dev and making brooms or something.

[00:29:34] Chuck: Hey, so, uh, there you go. We, we kind of had to end the conversation on, uh, a discussion around, Hey, if you weren't doing this as your career, what would you do in life? And I found it very interesting that Wes', desire to be in logistics somehow to make money with more like practical things that are a business, but people don't think about all the time.

[00:29:55] Robbie: Yeah, I feel like a lot of people would say they just want to be out of like [00:30:00] anything where you're gonna have to sit at a computer. Like if I can escape from that, how can I build stuff or, do a thing that's in the real world.

[00:30:07] Chuck: that is true. No one says, oh, if I wasn't a software engineer, I would be in hardware or something like that. Right? Nobody

[00:30:16] Robbie: write word docs all

[00:30:17] Chuck: Yeah. Right. I would be in spreadsheets for sure. I would be doing presentations that would really work on my PowerPoints, I feel like people do tend to lean into like more physical pursuits.

[00:30:30] Robbie: Yeah. I mean, that's what I would do. Like I already, my eyes don't work and everything is broken because I'm at a computer all day. And so if I could get away from that, I totally would.

[00:30:39] Chuck: You think that you would be physically fit enough for manual labor?

[00:30:44] Robbie: uh, Not, not the kind where you've gotta like dig a hole all day, but like fixing up a car or something. Sure.

[00:30:51] Chuck: That is true. Mechanics, auto mechanics, or some sort of mechanics. I would be into that. I think I do like the hardware of things in a [00:31:00] way like fixing and, and building stuff. So yeah, I could, I could see that. By the way, dear listener, you may have heard. Cuz there's only one of you, you may have heard a pouring sound. And while we try and recoup the rest of this episode, whiskey is a necessary part of what we do here. So we just circle back to the Dalmore 12. You may have heard actually yeah, by the time this came out, this, that will be out.

[00:31:22] Robbie: Mm,

[00:31:23] Chuck: one or two episodes

[00:31:25] Robbie: I don't

[00:31:25] Chuck: I don't know. All right. Well then look forward to the Dalmore 12. Yeah. And other people handle schedules and math and other things. We just, you know, we wrote a script and it arbitrarily schedules all. Of the episodes in whatever order too. Uh, The Dalmore 12, it's a scotch you most of, you know, we're not big scotch fans, but around. Uh, But this one has a very different flavor to it, flavor profile to it. I don't remember a ton about what we gave it, found it decent enough to have it again, cuz it's an open bottle sitting here and uh, yeah,

[00:31:59] Robbie: [00:32:00] Yeah, it's

[00:32:00] Chuck: it'll.

[00:32:01] Robbie: It's not terrible. It's a little bit off-putting right this second cuz I brushed my teeth not long ago,

[00:32:07] Chuck: Hmm. That seems like ill-advised as before you record a podcast that, you know, we drink whiskey.

[00:32:12] Robbie: yeah, but my, my day got away from me, so I was uh,

[00:32:15] Chuck: hmm.

[00:32:15] Robbie: like doing stuff for our loan for our house all day and trying to work still and like bugs were coming up at work and I was just like nonstop everything. I was like, all right, quick shower before the podcast brush my teeth. And then I was like, showed up and then uh, our guests uh, internet connection didn't work. So we are here doing this instead.

[00:32:35] Chuck: Yeah, well, you know, life happens and we're willing to pivot and go through it. Speaking of life, like what, okay, so again, timing wise, when this is released, hopefully this is a well over trend by that time, but like, what the hell is going on to at least my particular Twitter feed, which is full of people drinking milk or milk alternatives? I do, I do, I do have a bone to pick there a little bit, but. [00:33:00] What is going on? Just one day it just started happening and more and more people, and now it's gone even further. It's like I'm here touching grass, drinking milk, being part of the world and earth and energy

[00:33:14] Robbie: you see uh, Adam Elmore ask about it? He was like, okay, I totally know what's going on with the milk thing. but if I were to explain it to someone else, could you tell me what I might say or whatever? And, and it, and they were like,

[00:33:28] Chuck: is like, wait, what

[00:33:30] Robbie: they were like uh, yeah, someone responded that it was like, I forget the two people. It was, but it was like one person just happened to like drink milk out of the jug or something like, Not part of the meme or the whatever's going on yet. And then someone else was like, wait, you drink that right out of the jug and then like one up to them with like a bigger jug or like something and then everyone just started doing it cuz they were like,

[00:33:54] Chuck: And then people were like, you drink milk. Milk is bad. What about this stuff?

[00:33:58] Robbie: What about soy milk or [00:34:00] wine or,

[00:34:01] Chuck: yeah. Right. Oh yeah, the wine one. I think that was a Ken Wheeler thing. I don't

[00:34:05] Robbie: Yeah, Ken Wheeler was also

[00:34:06] Chuck: him

[00:34:07] Robbie: you know, I can just get a titty out and put it in my mouth and like, you know, like, one up all you guys, I guess he has like a, a newborn maybe. So there's like still milk there or whatever.

[00:34:16] Chuck: Mm. Oh, okay. Yeah, I didn't know if it was gonna be a male or female one, but I was waiting with bated breath to see if he would do it because it feels like he probably would, and I don't even know him. It's just, you know, what the, the persona that he allows us to know, although I've listened to a couple of his talks before from way back when he worked at Formidable, so I knew how to pronounce Urql, and it is Urkel like the, did I do that? I know that impression was great.

[00:34:46] Robbie: Yeah. Flawless.

[00:34:47] Chuck: faleel White. Jaleel White to come on our show

[00:34:51] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:34:51] Chuck: and do

[00:34:52] Robbie: don't think he's coming on. I.

[00:34:54] Chuck: I know, I don't know what he's up to these days, but I remember the last time seeing him, he was like jacked and [00:35:00] like looking like Will Smith and all jacked and stuff. And I was like, well, he probably, people don't make fun of him to his face at least anymore.

[00:35:07] Robbie: yeah. No, like I feel like he has a little bit of a nerdy face still or something, so it like doesn't go with the like jacked appearance. But yeah, he's like fit and like, I don't know, maybe he's got plenty of money. I don't know if he's acting anymore or what he's doing.

[00:35:21] Chuck: I, I think it was like a charity thing or something I saw on that some years ago, and I don't, I don't keep up.

[00:35:27] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:35:28] Chuck: Turns out.

[00:35:29] Robbie: Not like you do with the Kardashians.

[00:35:32] Chuck: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, totally. Although uh, what was that another funny Twitter thing? So apparently Kanye posted, Hey, Napoli, I know how it feels. I lost my Kim too because like Napoli's Star center back, Napoli Football Club star centerback was signed by Bayern Munich and his name is Asian. I don't know if it's Korean. So I won't say Kim, whatever is his name. And so he is like, yo, [00:36:00] Napoli, I know how it feels. I lost my Kim too. I was like, oh my gosh. He's just,

[00:36:04] Robbie: that's a pretty tame thing for him. Not

[00:36:07] Chuck: yeah, yeah. I thought it was good.

[00:36:08] Robbie: stuff or like, yeah,

[00:36:11] Chuck: Yeah, no no nothing, no weird shoes,

[00:36:16] Robbie: yeah. Well, no one will make his weird shoes anymore cause everyone's distanced from themselves. From him.

[00:36:21] Chuck: you get knockoffs now or something. So I don't know if that's, Okay to go and get, cause I thought they were so ugly before, I don't even want the knockoff. So they were like weird moon shoes. If I wanna get moon shoes, I still want the Nikes. That self lace that back to the future II. Promised me decades ago.

[00:36:39] Robbie: you know they made those,

[00:36:39] Chuck: is this? They made them, but they don't self lace. I need the Nikes. That self lace. It wasn't the look, it's the function. You just pushed the button and then

[00:36:47] Robbie: No, no. They made the function. you see these?

[00:36:51] Chuck: I didn't see these cuz I saw when

[00:36:53] Robbie: a limited run. And it was like a hundred only. And you had to apply to get them as like a contest and you [00:37:00] can buy them now for like $45,000. Cuz like there's only a hundred of 'em. So if you get one, like unless you are just the biggest fan ever, you're probably selling that and making a big profit.

[00:37:10] Chuck: see. This is why I want to get quote unquote fuck you rich. Because I want to take stuff like that, collectibles like that, and maybe this seems pretty wasteful or whatever else, and not, I will give plenty of to charity and, and do good things too. But I also wanna waste it in a way on things like that. Like get those shoes and just wear them. I want to get rare cars and drive them. Like just use the things that have somehow become weird trophies. You know, buy the expensive whiskey and open it and drink it with friends and family. Like, I want to do those things. I wanna use these things. I wanna drive that car and get paint scratches and rock chips and like, you know, have it worn and how, how it did the thing it was supposed to do,

[00:37:55] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:37:55] Chuck: applying these things with a purpose. And somehow there's like such [00:38:00] a culture of collecting, it's like legitimizing hoarders in a way or something. I don't know.

[00:38:05] Robbie: yeah, yeah. I don't know. I don't know what has made it. Become that way. Like, I think there's, I forget what show it was, there's something we were just like scrolling through Netflix and some guy has like every Apple product they've ever made or

[00:38:18] Chuck: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:19] Robbie: And it's like, why? You know, it's, if you had one and it's like, it's cool to boot it up sometimes and like see what it used to be like and whatever. That's fun. But like, you know, every single one. What are you doing with those like,

[00:38:33] Chuck: Yeah, I don't know. Like, yeah, they, they're not fitting their original function and if they're just stored as a collectible, again, it's not really doing much. I can see Apple. Having, you know, a warehouse ar an archive. I think Nike has that. Right. You know, doesn't Nike have that for a bunch of their shoes and all that? Again, this makes sense. You are the manufacturer, you're the, the brainchild of these are the brainchild of, of your company. [00:39:00] So it's cool to like look back at where we were and where we've been. But yeah, as an individual, I don't know what the hell I would do with all those things. Like, Being the steward of Apple products for your whole life. Maybe if your last name is Jobs, you should do that.

[00:39:15] Robbie: Yeah, maybe.

[00:39:17] Chuck: I don't know.

[00:39:18] Robbie: Yeah, I just, I don't really collect stuff except for all the whiskey that I don't drink from this podcast. So.

[00:39:23] Chuck: Yeah, well, you know, you tried to NFT your way out of that and that didn't work either.

[00:39:29] Robbie: Oh

[00:39:29] Chuck: still got rug pulled. I mean, you gotta drink it and use it for cocktails so that more than you will drink it and then share. I mean, I, I. I easily, every time we get invited over for like a barbecue or dinner or whatever else, I am always bringing whiskey with me and I'm always leaving it there. And they're like, no, no. Take this. This is a nice one. Like, no, trust me, I'm good. plenty.

[00:39:53] Robbie: Maybe you haven't listened to our podcast. Check it out at WhiskeyWebandWhatnot.fm.

[00:39:58] Chuck: Right, exactly. And listen to at [00:40:00] least one whole episode so that you can rate us five stars and then just never come back again. I don't know.

[00:40:04] Robbie: Yeah, we never got any additional ratings from render, which tells me that it definitely doesn't count it unless you listen to the whole thing. So if any of those people who rated us are listening, listen to a whole episode and rate us again, please so that it works.

[00:40:20] Chuck: right. Yeah. You can't just go right and rate it and then never come back again or not finish one. So, I mean, good for them. Making it legitimate, you know, the rate you, you can't have bots come in and like mass rate it or something weird, so, so it makes sense that it's legitimized in that way. I don't wanna skip over this important question that I have though, which is, there's the milk thing and various milks, and then there are these quote unquote milks, like oat milk, almond milk whatever, I don't know, coconut milk, which maybe is somewhat viably cl closer to actual milk, but like any kind of nut milk. [00:41:00] Isn't a milk right? You know, like what makes a milk a milk?

[00:41:04] Robbie: it's a broad term and I feel like the term at its core just means like extracting a liquid from a thing, arguably the almond ones and stuff that like don't have that much liquid and like where does it all come from? There's a bunch of other crap in there. Whatever. Um,

[00:41:24] Chuck: I've made my own almond milk once, by the way. It is a messy and not worth it process. I mean, you're basically like crush up a bunch of almonds and then they're in this like small seeve bag thing and, and you soak it for a while. So it's like, nut soaked. It's almost like making chocolate milk. Right. But it takes longer cuz you

[00:41:45] Robbie: So it's not um, It has nothing to do with getting it out of it, then you're just putting your own water in and like collecting the flavor. So then, yeah, that is not milked. Coconut, as you said, does have real liquid, so that is

[00:41:57] Chuck: That's more milky. I find it all [00:42:00] just to be a dairy substitute. And that's fine if you're like, I don't want dairy in my coffee, I want this a, a dairy substitute. Okay. But you know, you don't get to have the category milk, in my view. It's not milk. There's nothing milk about it. And it's okay if you don't. It's sort of like fake meats. They're not meat. They're just like other processed thing that's supposed to kind of fake it.

[00:42:23] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:42:23] Chuck: if you choose to have that rather than the thing that's okay, I want, you know, a chicken substitute. It's kind of like imitation crab meat. Right? Although that is other meat still. But like in a way it's like, did you want crab? Cool. Well I got this stuff made out of fish. looks like crab. That's crab like, and we add a gelatin in there so it gets a sponginess to it. Enjoy that. It's just like fancy crab.

[00:42:47] Robbie: I did have a really good crab cake a couple days ago.

[00:42:50] Chuck: Mm.

[00:42:51] Robbie: it was crab cake day at a restaurant in Maryland, and it was like a third off the normal price, and I was like, cool, I'll try it. And it was very good. [00:43:00]

[00:43:00] Chuck: Yeah. It's, well, I guess it's not soft shell crab season, but I mean, it's always kind of crab season in Maryland.

[00:43:06] Robbie: Well, even when it's not in season, Maryland finds it.

[00:43:10] Chuck: They're like, we are the crab people, whether we made it or not. I feel like they have blue crab and a couple other ones like year round. So you can always get a decent crab cake there, and if you get it at a better price, like why not? Why would it be on sale? I don't know. I'm always, I don't know.

[00:43:24] Robbie: I think it's, it's supposed to be like a promotion to get people in the door, right? So you buy things that have higher margins while you're in there. Eating the crab cake is the theory.

[00:43:32] Chuck: and yeah, the restaurant business seems difficult.

[00:43:35] Robbie: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:36] Chuck: It's probably not for, there's a lot of, a lot of pressure behind that.

[00:43:39] Robbie: But the selling whiskey business seems easy cuz you go, all right, this bottle costs $50, so if you're gonna buy it at my bar, it's gonna be $400. it seems like an easy way to make money.

[00:43:50] Chuck: Yeah. Margins on alcohol are ridiculous. It's like 300% on average. It's like, oh, you like this bottle of wine? Well, it costs you $20 at, at [00:44:00] Trader Joe's, you go to the restaurants easily 60, $70 for

[00:44:03] Robbie: yeah. Oh

[00:44:04] Chuck: which is crazy. And people are like, yes, I'll have that same thing.

[00:44:08] Robbie: well, you're not gonna say, Hey, I'm gonna not have wine because you're charging me more. Unless you're like really cost conscious at the time or something.

[00:44:16] Chuck: Yeah, yeah,

[00:44:18] Robbie: I wouldn't buy like a several hundred dollars bottle at a restaurant, but it, you know, if it is ha double the price three times the price. Like still probably. Okay.

[00:44:28] Chuck: yeah. That's the funny thing is I think the margins on more expensive bottles are lower, right? Cause they need a kind of a ceiling. So it's like a hundred dollars or more bottle out. They at max, I think double it and that's it.

[00:44:41] Robbie: Yeah, cuz it would get ridiculous. Like you drop off a cliff of like, the people that would pay a hundred ish dollars to people that would pay over 200 are not gonna happen. So,

[00:44:51] Chuck: That's crazy. It actually reminds me on an episode of Smartless that I was listening to recently. I never talk about this podcast, but uh, [00:45:00] Bill Maher was on and they were forever. They were for whatever reason, discussing clubs in LA and bottle service, and none of them go do that at this point. But apparently it's like a $5,000 endeavor to do bottle service. So you get like mediocre vodka and some mixers at a premier table and it's like five grand.

[00:45:20] Robbie: Well, the table is part of it. Cuz usually it's probably at a club that like doesn't have seating. You're like standing room only unless you buy the VIP lounge or whatever. So then yeah, you're paying for that. But then yeah, each bottle is like so much.

[00:45:33] Chuck: yeah. And then you get premium seating and you get the intent, you know, like the attention. You're like, look, I could afford this

[00:45:40] Robbie: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:41] Chuck: right here. The people that can afford that are insane. Well, they just value different things, I guess, but and they have a lot of money.

[00:45:49] Robbie: Mm-hmm. if you're literally, I don't know how much Jeff Bezos makes a day, but I imagine that it's gotta be something comically [00:46:00] large like. Several hundred thousand dollars a day or something, right? And if that's happening, you're like, five grand, I don't care. Like, doesn't matter at all. So those kind of people will do that,

[00:46:13] Chuck: I, it's not Jeff Bezos though. It's like these, these people's children, right. So it's not like the hedge fund manager at BlackRock.

[00:46:23] Robbie: that inherit the things.

[00:46:24] Chuck: it? Yeah, it's the people that have access to that and uh, they're like, cool. I'm 24. I just made it through college with no, no debt and got an immediate VP position at my uncle's thing, so it doesn't look too much you know, like a problem. I don't work right for my dad, I work for my uncle and uh, but I have access to 10 grand a day,

[00:46:46] Robbie: yeah. Life goals, I guess.

[00:46:49] Chuck: yeah, if only you could like somehow work. To be born into the right family or financial circumstance, right?

[00:46:58] Robbie: Well, it depends on your outlook, [00:47:00] right? Because if you think about the good things you like, you weren't born as a cow when like, you know, so

[00:47:10] Chuck: am I a dairy cow or am I, you know,

[00:47:13] Robbie: No, you're a

[00:47:14] Chuck: burger? Am I, am I a burger cow? Am I gonna turn into a burger or do I just gotta,

[00:47:19] Robbie: Just live on the pasture for fun. Yeah. I don't know, like, I guess those are different, but you know what

[00:47:24] Chuck: I wanna be, I want to be a cow in like a Hindu country so that I am appreciated and precious. Yeah. That's not a terrible life

[00:47:34] Robbie: Yeah. But like, yeah,

[00:47:37] Chuck: full of hormones.

[00:47:38] Robbie: I feel like anyone who isn't like super has anything super bad going on, like tons of poverty or tons of illness or something should feel like I'm lucky to be a human and alive and doing okay. Like

[00:47:49] Chuck: Right.

[00:47:50] Robbie: there's a lot of people doing worse now, so

[00:47:52] Chuck: this is true. We always, well as me, look at all that privilege and random luck. [00:48:00] But I don't need $5,000 bottle service, so I'm okay. I would like one awesome vintage car to drive the fuck out of the one that like has like somebody's protected for 40 years and has like, you know, it's like the Ferris Bueller thing, right? Where he has that uh, Ferrari GT ca 250 GT California, I have that fantasy. That's probably Ferris Bueller's fault actually. Why I have that fantasy. I'm like that. Is a bucket list item for me to take the protected precious trophy car and just fucking drive it.

[00:48:35] Robbie: Well, if you ever get filthy rich, what you should do is start a fund for middle class folks to get some obnoxiously expensive thing, like one a year of like, you just give it to 'em and they get to use it and like,

[00:48:49] Chuck: Right, right. It's almost like make-a-wish, but you don't have to be dying.

[00:48:52] Robbie: yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:53] Chuck: Yeah, I like that. And in spite of re recent legislation, I would make it very equal opportunity.

[00:48:59] Robbie: [00:49:00] What happened with recent legislation?

[00:49:02] Chuck: Uh, Affirmative action was abolished, basically.

[00:49:06] Robbie: Oh, was it? I totally missed that. I haven't, I haven't watched any news or anything in a while.

[00:49:11] Chuck: oh boy. Yes, I think it was yesterday. And today's SCOTUS decision was around um,

[00:49:18] Robbie: Can we fucking fire the Supreme Court?

[00:49:20] Chuck: They should be going to jail with recent evidence. But that's a whole other thing. Like they, they've clear bribery and payoff and like, like, I think one of the's like, oh a judge given free vacation essentially and taking on these expensive trips and whatever else. And I think like the person providing that has like a direct benefit. For student loan forgiveness not occurring, and coincidentally that justice voted to repeal that forgiveness and is also trying to reduce the powers of the President in correlation of [00:50:00] things like that. So there's that.

[00:50:01] Robbie: Court is not supposed to have power to do anything. They like get to weigh in on things sometimes they're not supposed to be, but we're not gonna get too political. We're going down a, a big uh, thing here, but yeah, not, not a fan.

[00:50:12] Chuck: Coup all over France. It's burning. France is burning by the way, like all over buildings are

[00:50:18] Robbie: can talk about them. Cause it's not our government.

[00:50:20] Chuck: you know, it's not us. Uh, Well it might sound a little close to home. So some police shot and killed a 17 year old black boy, or

[00:50:27] Robbie: Hmm.

[00:50:28] Chuck: I might be making that part. I know they shot and killed a 17 year old boy. It doesn't matter what race he was. So, I was feeling like it might be, but I could be wrong. And

[00:50:38] Robbie: Yeah, let's not

[00:50:39] Chuck: aside doesn't matter. Yeah. That's why I wanted to walk that back and say, might have that wrong, but all the other parts are right. And so riots started happening and then that started to spiral. And so there's looting and destruction and lots of fires all over France, not

[00:50:55] Robbie: Do you think Americans fly over when they hear that looting might happen and just do all of it? [00:51:00]

[00:51:00] Chuck: Well, and then on a racial side, so that's, they're blaming the Islamic folks that were allowed to immigrate into France and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So there's, you know, For whatever just allowed in. And now these things are happening. And so they're saying, well, obviously it's not French. It's not the French people doing this. It's immigrants and Yeah, ridiculousness. But

[00:51:24] Robbie: why I don't watch any news. Like I knew nothing about any of this and I've been fine. Like,

[00:51:29] Chuck: but you're on Twitter, apparently you're isolated on Twitter

[00:51:33] Robbie: but Twitter, all I see is people drinking milk and like doing stupid

[00:51:37] Chuck: Oh my gosh.

[00:51:38] Robbie: Oh, nobody talks about real stuff on Twitter except for the like occasional, fuck you Elon or something.

[00:51:43] Chuck: Right. But it is like all tech bros drinking milk, so,

[00:51:47] Robbie: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:48] Chuck: right.

[00:51:49] Robbie: Well, I only follow Tech Bros. Like it's very curated.

[00:51:52] Chuck: yeah, there you go. And nailed it. You can isolate yourself and the news and information that [00:52:00] you get in life. Don't turn on TVs, you. Tweak Twitter to give you the content that you want. And so Elon's wrong. It's not like the number one news platform that's real in the world. Because if that was the case, you would get relevant news regardless, but you tell it. No, I don't want those things. That's all fluff to me. Just let's keep it, let's keep it cheeky and funny.

[00:52:24] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:52:25] Chuck: Which is fine too. I mean, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm

[00:52:28] Robbie: There's too much bad stuff going on to like wanna see all of that. So.

[00:52:32] Chuck: Yeah, it's tough. I, I basically, I, from a news perspective, kind of like scroll Apple news for a little while, scroll Twitter, and that's kind of it. I feel like I'm getting more than enough of bad shit, but I don't know where I can escape to def not Mars yet, I guess.

[00:52:49] Robbie: Yeah. We need to get on that, maybe like mine some minerals in space or do something other than just like go to the moon decades ago and then be like, we're done.

[00:52:58] Chuck: Yeah, we're done with that. Well, we send [00:53:00] non manned things all over the place. You know, we have the Mars rover.

[00:53:02] Robbie: Well, yeah, but if you sent a bunch of. Manned people to somewhere and said, you have to live here now. We'd probably be doing a lot better. Like they would uh, figure it out.

[00:53:13] Chuck: Matt Damon barely survived. What do you want?

[00:53:15] Robbie: true. Yeah, that's true. He figured it out though. Got his crops going and all that.

[00:53:21] Chuck: It's a fairly relevant point to end things on. I think we've gotten as Whatnot-y as possible.

[00:53:26] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah. This one was uh, not the best that we've ever had, but uh, hopefully you enjoyed the first part with all of the people that are more interesting than us saying more interesting things than we say and the random bullshit that we just spouted. So we will have an actual episode with more guests and things that you're used to for the next ones. At some point, I really promise we will do videos. We've been kind of hit or miss with them because shit keeps happening. But yeah.

[00:53:53] Chuck: Technology is hard. Turns out,

[00:53:55] Robbie: Yeah, if there's any whiskeys you want us to try, any topics you want us to cover, let us [00:54:00] know. You can reach us on Twitter, LinkedIn we need to make a little thingy on our website where you could just like send us texts so that we can uh, do that because

[00:54:08] Chuck: kind of like a pseudo form.

[00:54:10] Robbie: Yeah, like people don't all have Twitter or whatever, so I get that. But like we, we want to hear from you and whatever platform you're on uh, hit us up and yeah, we'll uh, do whatever you say next time.

[00:54:20] Chuck: Boom, boom, boom.