Whiskey Web and Whatnot

A whiskey fueled fireside chat with your favorite web developers.


130: Upgrade Your Lifestyle: From the Ballmer Peak to High Tech Toilet Seats

Show Notes

In this episode, Robbie and Chuck discuss a variety of topics. They initially discuss a controversial tier list video from Theo. They criticize Theo's technology ranking, particularly his negative view of Ember and his endorsement of React and other frameworks. They also highlight the subjective nature of technology preference and suggest that Theo's tier list is more a reflection of his personal biases than an objective assessment of the tools' merits.

They move on to discussing Astro, a new static site builder they've been using. They praise Astro for its easy conversion process, quick build times, and the fact that it uses semantic HTML by default. They express their enthusiasm for Astro and mention how they are using it for their own websites.

Lastly, Chuck and Robbie deviate from tech talk and share about their Christmas experiences, with Chuck being especially thrilled about receiving a high-end Toto Washlet (bidet toilet seat) as a present. They end their conversation with a humorous debate about the merits of high-end toilet seats, with Robbie stating that the bidet's functions are surprisingly beneficial and make each bathroom visit enjoyable.

Key Takeaways

  • [01:29] - Whiskey Tasting: Sagamore Spirit Rye Cask Strength
  • [04:44] - Whiskey Rating and Discussion
  • [08:53] - Theo's Controversial Tech Tier List
  • [25:09] - The Balmer Peak: Is it Real?
  • [31:05] - Astro Framework Discussion
  • [32:58] - Discussing Fashion and Sponsorships
  • [33:49] - Exploring the Benefits of Astro
  • [34:37] - Debating the Merits of Pages Router vs App Router
  • [36:01] - The Influence of Ember on Modern Web Development
  • [40:15] - The Challenges of Remote Work and Office Politics
  • [45:03] - Deep Dive into Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism
  • [50:10] - The Joys and Challenges of Christmas
  • [58:50] - The Luxury of High-End Toilet Seats


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[00:00:05] Robbie: Welcome to Whose Whiskey is it Anyway? Where everything is made up and the points don't matter.

[00:00:10] Chuck: I had a joke teed up, too, and now you joked first, and it ruined my joke.

[00:00:16] Robbie: okay. Well, let me set you up. Welcome to Whiskey Web and Whatnot with myself, RobbieTheWagner and Charles William Carpenter III.

[00:00:24] Chuck: No, he is dead. I'm a leprechaun, and I'll be your host today. I'm wearing green. It just made me feel like the wrong season, I guess.

[00:00:37] Robbie: yeah. And you're in a green room. You could just, you turn on your green screen and like your chest will go away and your room will go away. And

[00:00:45] Chuck: Exactly. I'll disappear, which is kind of my dream come true. I just want to fade off into the bushes like Homer Simpson.

[00:00:54] Robbie: Well, the closest thing we have to

disappearing is getting drunk.[00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Chuck: yeah, I disappear two, three times a week easily. So Robbie uh, for those who don't know who you are and what you do, tell them a little about yourself.


[00:01:08] Robbie: Well, I drink whiskey and pretend to write code and do lots of TypeScript conversions and Ember and things that people don't love as much anymore, but I do,

[00:01:23] Chuck: yeah. Pouring out for the homies. So, anyway, let's move into the first segment. Talk about whiskey. Today's whiskey is the Sagamore Spirit Rye Cask Strength. So it's the cask strength version of our tried and true. We've had a barrel proof one in the past. This is just cask strength.

So it's 112. 2. Proof, a mix of four and seven year aged ryes a blend of those ryes one with a mash bill of high rye and one with a mash bill of low rye, giving us this mid rye, I guess. That's what happens.

[00:01:56] Robbie: I have some mid ride genes.

[00:01:58] Chuck: Mm hmm. [00:02:00] Mid ryes. I'm glad you got rid of those low ryes once. Just showin

[00:02:05] Robbie: there's a little scandalous

[00:02:07] Chuck: Whoa, anyway.

[00:02:09] Robbie: So this smells smells some cardamom and Cinnamon

[00:02:16] Chuck: Star of Anise.

[00:02:18] Robbie: Yeah, mulling spices in general

[00:02:21] Chuck: hmm, yeah, fresh out of Christmas, feeling

[00:02:23] Robbie: Mm hmm Mm

[00:02:26] Chuck: Almost a little cocoa for me. A little cocoa, like cocoa powder. Or, you know, yeah. Like maybe the one that you bake with, so it's a little more bitter or something.

[00:02:37] Robbie: Yeah

[00:02:37] Chuck: write him.

[00:02:39] Robbie: 100 percent cacao

[00:02:40] Chuck: Cacao. I've never had 100 percent cacao. I've had very high cacao. Mm hmm.

[00:02:50] Robbie: is really enjoying saying wow bow right now. He'll just go around and be like, wow bow. Anyway, this reminded me.

[00:02:59] Chuck: [00:03:00] it's got a little bit of like, almost like a little charred barbecue sauce to it for me.

[00:03:05] Robbie: Hmm. It does

[00:03:07] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:03:08] Robbie: very very woody in

[00:03:10] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:03:11] Robbie: like the, the good parts of a smoky barbecue.

[00:03:13] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah. I don't like the burnt parts, burnt ends, although I do like some burnt ends.

[00:03:18] Robbie: Yeah. If, as long as the texture is good,

[00:03:21] Chuck: somebody's like cooked it right. Like when you get burned ends and somebody's like burned the whole damn thing anyway, the burned ends are basically like eating charcoal. Yeah, that's not good.

That doesn't taste like this. They've not let us down here. I do feel a little bit. I still am rolling with the like baker's chocolate, a little bit of barbecue sauce, a little bit of like charry barbecue. Yeah, it's

[00:03:43] Robbie: Yeah, it's, it's like, yeah, very well spiced rub of some kind in like a sugary base that's been reduced a lot, like cooked way down, is kind of the, the vibe I'm getting.[00:04:00]

[00:04:00] Chuck: that. I'm gonna do the you ever watch Curb Your Enthusiasm?

[00:04:05] Robbie: mm.

[00:04:07] Chuck: Mm.

[00:04:08] Robbie: I've seen clips and stuff, but never really watched it. Yeah,

[00:04:17] Chuck: every time he takes a sip, he's just like, ah, that's good coffee. And it's funny because on Seinfeld, they did a thing like that, but it was like it was in a class. Elaine was in a class or something like that. And someone in the class, every time they take a sip of coffee, they just go every, every sip. And then I think he just kind of played it up on the newer show and that's good coffee. Well, this is good whiskey. I just wanted to say it's good whiskey. Do you want to rate this whiskey?

[00:04:46] Robbie: let's do it. Me

[00:04:49] Chuck: On a Sagamore scale, you first.

[00:04:52] Robbie: Yeah, compared to the gold standard of Sagamore this, this holds up. It's exactly what I would expect, [00:05:00] just a little bit stronger, I guess. The flavor notes are a little different, but that just comes from it being Not watered down, I guess. So, do I like it more or less?

I'm not sure. I'd say it's about in line the same. Like, there's nothing displeasing about it. So, seven and a half?

[00:05:16] Chuck: I think that's fair. Yeah, so I think that, so they're normal distillate. You would, they will blend it enough to get, like, consistent flavor notes, right? They're always going to, like, age to a similar time, blend it enough to where you get consistent flavor notes. That's just a lot of regular whiskey, so we'll do that.

This one Is not going to do as much of that. It's like blending a couple of cast strength ones and you know, just seeing what happens. Oh, this tastes good. So in that sense, I almost feel like it's a little better than the regular. So for me, yeah, I think I guess I'm just gonna go ahead and say seven and a half too because it's pretty darn good.

It's tasty. The only thing I wouldn't like about it is that next time I go buy it, it might [00:06:00] taste differently. It's hard to say, right? Because this one is a particular batch. So this is batch 12 AH. And bottle

[00:06:07] Robbie: what I have, too.

[00:06:08] Chuck: Yeah. So we have the same, of course, because you ordered it from the same place.

That helps us with our geographic difficulties. But yeah, so who knows next time it might taste a little different, but overall, this particular batch, I think is pretty flavorful. It's interesting. I don't, I don't think I've gotten barbecue. Sauce out of I think some of the brown sugar elements of that whatever could come up here, but

[00:06:32] Robbie: Yeah, I think I had something kind of barbecue inspired, like, one other time. It's a rare note.

[00:06:38] Chuck: Yeah Well, this bottle was brought to you by Doe wine spot. Sometimes they'll get it to you if you order It's just talking about recent experiences I just want to be honest, you

[00:06:52] Robbie: Yeah, I mean, we're nothing if not honest on this show that it's been a frustrating [00:07:00] experience and it's been like that before some, but we talked about this a little before we were on the air. Like we use I think you said it was caskers. Is that, does that sound right? Before?

[00:07:09] Chuck: that sounds right.

[00:07:09] Robbie: Yeah. So we used them before and they like extra don't have stuff.

They're just like, we sell everything. If you order it, we'll find it, which is like. Even more extreme, but the wine spot does a little of that to where it's like What do they call it like special order and it's

[00:07:26] Chuck: Means we gotta find this shit.

[00:07:28] Robbie: yeah, so so that was like we ordered What was it? Like 20 30 bottles, I guess 30 bottles and at least like 10 or so of those were special order so like we've had some some problems, but

[00:07:44] Chuck: But,

[00:07:44] Robbie: to find somewhere that'll ship to everywhere

[00:07:46] Chuck: yeah. Yeah. You gotta get East and West Coast. I mean, I will give them a a kudos around like the pricing is it's obviously more than retail on some things, but it's not like crazy secondary market prices. So, [00:08:00] Casker's is just like batshit crazy in their pricing and that was like another reason to just kind of be like, Mmm, I don't know about that.

So, you know, some, some pluses there. Shipping to both of us. Decent customer support things like that. So, some pluses. Not, I'm not totally shitting on it. Just, I have to make jokes. And some, often times it's at the expense of others. Sorry. Not

[00:08:20] Robbie: Well, that is what making fun is, right?

[00:08:22] Chuck: Mm, mm hmm.

[00:08:24] Robbie: jokes are at the expense of something, like, I guess the only way to make it non offensive to all is if it's at the expense of yourself, but like, everything else is at least a little bit, a little

[00:08:36] Chuck: And even then, I'm offended, and I go back and yell at myself later on, after we record a show and have a few whiskeys, and like, you are terrible at this. Yeah. Nobody thinks you're funny.

[00:08:49] Robbie: you know what else is terrible and not funny?

[00:08:52] Chuck: Hmm.

[00:08:53] Robbie: This tier list that Theo put out which has been this big thing

[00:08:57] Chuck: T3 Dawg. [00:09:00] Hmm.

[00:09:00] Robbie: t3. gg.

[00:09:02] Chuck: Right,

[00:09:03] Robbie: I believe. Yeah.

[00:09:04] Chuck: What is GG, anyway? G g g

[00:09:06] Robbie: good game.

[00:09:07] Chuck: but isn't it a TLD, or whatever?

[00:09:12] Robbie: is. I'm not sure what it is for that. But I think that's his, his company is like something. gg.

[00:09:18] Chuck: yeah.

[00:09:19] Robbie: Video streaming or something.

[00:09:22] Chuck: Yeah, I feel like it begins with a P. I'm not

[00:09:24] Robbie: Not, not sponsored by them, so can't help you with the details.

[00:09:28] Chuck: Our real sponsors will get upset if we mention another company. So, I think we better chill on that.

[00:09:35] Robbie: The app where you throw stuff in and get transcripts and it's magic.

[00:09:39] Chuck: Right, so anyway, yeah, the garbage list is interesting. Yeah, I know, like, in retrospect, it was mentioned like, Ha ha, it's all satirical anyway. Like, it's easy to say that. If you're, if you're putting out clickbait, then it's easy to say, I didn't watch it.

[00:09:56] Robbie: There some of it is satirical. So [00:10:00] like let me let me unpack it a little for you here. So he Posts the video with like a screenshot because you always do the weird screenshot where you're like Like for your like, you know youtube Like I don't know why everyone has to do a crazy face for their their little thumbnails or whatever.

But He had that and like in the background was like the tier list and it was the real one and Then like there was one he was like this is the real tier list and like posted another screenshot And it was like had like jQuery and flash is like S tier like the best ones and like that one's clearly satirical Cuz like you can't even use flash anymore.

I mean, I guess you can but like You don't.

[00:10:40] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:10:41] Robbie: And so like that,

[00:10:43] Chuck: We know that.

[00:10:44] Robbie: that's satirical. In the beginning of the video, one of the first few is Astro, and he writes it in F because it ships no JavaScript, so it's not technically a framework. And like, that's kind of satirical, I get it, okay. But then he talks about Ember for like a [00:11:00] long time.

It was like, several minutes at least. I forget how long exactly, and I didn't watch anymore after it, because I was like, I don't care about your opinions anymore. But he was like, yeah, when I got to Twitch, they were using Ember and like, Ember has been dead forever and I hate Ember and it sucks and you should hate it too.

And like, here, let's just look at how much of a joke it is. Let's look at their docs. And he's like scrolling through and he's like, yeah, like, look, what is this syntax? There's like this handlebars stuff. Like why would you ever want like separate templates like this? This is so dumb. It looks so gross.

Can't read it at all. Like, which is my opinion about JSX. I can't read that shit. So he's like, yeah, you can't, you can't read any of this. They don't make any mention of any of the syntax on the homepage because they must be embarrassed that it's so bad. Like, And then like, he goes through everything and like, looks at classes like, Oh yeah, of course it's class based.

It would definitely not be functional. Of course it's class based. And like, it's got decorators and they use their own ember magic to like, compile this into like, real stuff [00:12:00] somehow. It's Babel, bro. You fucking moron. Like, it

[00:12:04] Chuck: Shots fired. Shots fired.

[00:12:07] Robbie: use anything. Special,

[00:12:10] Chuck: I think.

[00:12:11] Robbie: well, no, I mean, okay, I should have prefaced all this with, I haven't watched any else of Theo's stuff, and I do enjoy some of his hot takes sometimes, so, you know,

[00:12:21] Chuck: I enjoy all hot takes, because I don't care that much, but yeah, you've taken it personally for various reasons, and

[00:12:27] Robbie: yeah, and so did, yeah, so did lots of other people, and like, I'm trying to remember, did he say anything else that was, like, they were all really bad takes like that, like, You know, like this is magic Ember syntax and it's a decorator as part of like the TC39 spec and it uses Babel and like, so maybe by how wrong he was about that, we're supposed to infer that there was some satire there, but

[00:12:53] Chuck: Right. But

[00:12:54] Robbie: I don't know.

It just, it was a really bad take and it like, [00:13:00] I don't know. It just, it really gave me, it seemed real, not satirical, like, When the Primogen says stuff, like, and is being funny about it, you can tell, like, It's not, it's not like, you know, as shots fired y as this was, so,

[00:13:17] Chuck: I see. So

[00:13:21] Robbie: I think, like, there was this, and everyone can check this out on Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it these days, Like, there's a lot of threads, like Runspired got involved and talked about how it was all dumb and blocked him, and like, people went further than I did.

I just wanted to mention that it's like, a thing and, that I, I'm planning on making a, my own tier list video. And

[00:13:45] Chuck: yeah, yeah.

[00:13:46] Robbie: see how that goes.

[00:13:47] Chuck: Okay. Yeah. For your own reasons. It can be whatever it is. I mean, I think it's interesting, right? Like obviously folks who are trying to generate income through streaming and [00:14:00] posting and all of those incentivized to make it, I don't know, like inspire. Interaction from some group of people.

So I think there's that. I mean, obviously, like when you see a comedian online, you know, that You know their feelings and opinions aren't necessarily like going into that when you're talking about a tech person Influencer right quote unquote for lack of a better term Then you have to think that like what they're saying is their own opinion, right?

Like unless they say ha ha look at this funny at the end. I don't know There's no way to know that like neither of them are comedians. None of the streamers are comedians Per se, and also, is there damaging effects to that in that people are looking for free information with which to learn from? And if you've been You know, developer for a few years, just a couple of years.

And you kind of know one thing, like, [00:15:00] how do you know that class syntax sucks? Because all you ever learned was the react version that uses functional programming, and there's some feelings and certain people that think that's the only way to go. End of the day, you can build, you know, crud applications that show tables and, you know, load things in with any of these things and who really gives a shit because it's that simple.

You know, so that, that is, that is kind of like the side effects of it, right? Like, Oh, ha ha, you made a joke. And some people who know what you're talking about whatever, have opinions. That's just what we do anyway. It's like picking your favorite sports team.

[00:15:37] Robbie: Yeah, this is my, yeah, like, like you were saying, like, I think he's done a disservice to anyone who follows him, who is like looking for what's the best way to like program today or whatever. And in my opinion, one of the easiest to learn and best developer experience is Ember. Now, whether you're going to build production apps in it or not, [00:16:00] it's kind of irrelevant.

And like, it's, it's for certain types of apps. It's for heavier apps. Like totally agree that there are a lot of modern. things that ship way less bytes, which might be better and more performant in certain cases. So like, not saying Ember is the winner all the time, but like, just coming on and straight up saying like, you shouldn't care about this.

Like, don't learn it. The, all of it's bad. Is like, I think it's doing a disservice. Like what he should be doing is just not mentioning it at all. If he feels that way and hyping up like the things that you should learn. Like, and I think You know, he's very into React and Next. js and stuff, I think, but maybe less so now.

I think he did rate Next. js like a little lower than like highest here, but I think like, you know, telling everyone, regardless of who you are, to just use React and that JSX is, looks better and is better than like a specific templating DSL is like, that's, it's wrong to [00:17:00] me. Like, I think you can see from So many of the newer frameworks that are hotter or becoming hotter now, having their own separate templating language shows people want that.

We don't want it all in like one big JavaScript block. Like, like CSS and JS is gross and Like the separation of concerns is good, like,

[00:17:24] Chuck: Yeah. I mean, I was part of the first wave of folks fighting for that separation of concerns, right? That was like the big thing of. Three different files so that it's all readable and useful and like make sense on its own and you know fought for that for so long and then react and react as an application framework came along and sort of muddied all of that and Took a little while to get on board, but then like some of the effects of it were cool So like cool with that, but then you look at Various interpretations of that. [00:18:00] Yeah. I don't know. Trying to build things on the web. There's a whole bunch of different ways, right? Like if you're building something for the web, it's called a web framework, right? And it's a set of tools, a collective set of tools that outputs a website or web application and Astro does that. Amber does that React, doesn't do that.

But obviously there are frameworks that do around that and you know, if that works for you. Cool. There's a handful of jsx based frameworks where you can build things go that direction, but like, yeah, I mean, people who ate handle bars, I guess you weren't around when things like J and whatever existed for templating and server side, things like.

There's just more than one way to skin a cat, and I think it's naive to kind of say, like, there's one right answer,

[00:18:43] Robbie: yeah,

[00:18:44] Chuck: not, and nobody can give enough evidence to say that it is.

[00:18:47] Robbie: yeah, and I would even, this might be a dumb take here, and you can give me more info on this because you know more about React and Next and the things that are out right now, but like, [00:19:00] yes it's all functional, cool, whatever, but aren't you thinking about it like a class? You're like making this component, That's like, I'm a card, and I have some content, and I like, close and open.

Like, you're thinking about, okay, like, card. open and card. close, and like, these things being a concept. So just because you've decided they can't be on a class and you need to write crazy decorator, or not decorator hook

[00:19:28] Chuck: Hooks.

[00:19:28] Robbie: like, like tons of hooks to fake a class, basically I'm not sure that the benefit is there like the speed benefit I think everyone agrees is there and I think that's why they did this crazy hook stuff is like we can get 10 milliseconds faster with this look at the optimizations we can do it's so amazing and yes there's power to them but like I think the mental model is still like we've got this concept and this thing contains these methods and yes it's not a class but it's like it's a [00:20:00] thing you So it's like, why does everyone hate classes so much?

That you're just thinking about it the same way,

[00:20:05] Chuck: Because there is a movement for a while, especially in the JavaScript ecosphere, that classes are bad within JavaScript applications because of classical inheritance. So like, like, programming ideology of like, oh shit, classical inheritance over a big enough application is a problem.

[00:20:30] Robbie: Well that's fair, and I think my answer to that would be don't extend anything. Like,

[00:20:36] Chuck: right. I

[00:20:37] Robbie: NullVox has been saying for years, is if you ever extend another component, you did it wrong. composable classes.

[00:20:44] Chuck: And then conversely, the other way, if you're talking about functional components and like the pinnacle of functional programming is a series of pure functions, right? So they are, yeah, they're, they're dumb and impervious to, [00:21:00] to issues because it's a pure function with the same. Output with, with the same input every single time.

But when you start to nest a bunch of things within a component, you already started to break that down. So then you have like wrapper components so that you can have the component that it, you know, higher order components versus the you know, children that are, are dumb and those get to be pure, but then your higher order one isn't for various reasons, and then it's sort of like back and forth.

You know, what is the right pattern along that? I don't know. I remember in early react days or even mid react days, like re renders really mattered because that was a performance implication. And then all of a sudden one day with hooks, they didn't matter anymore because

[00:21:44] Robbie: they still matter.

[00:21:45] Chuck: Right, but nobody care. Nobody focuses on that, right?

Like stopping or reducing re-render, like you could have like 50 re-render. Nobody gives a shit because every time you like change an interstate within this pure component, it's not pure anymore [00:22:00] because that state going from open to close does a full re-render and all its children. So

[00:22:06] Robbie: Yeah, I guess that is a side effect of everything having no state is it's going to have to re render everything. Cause it doesn't know it's not keeping track inside. So like, yeah, there's pros and cons to both. And I think part of that is like, theoretically, if you follow that paradigm, you would have less bugs because there's less stuff to like.

Get stale and like have side effects and weird stuff. But I think it's harder to think about, which is going to cause you to like, write stuff weird and have other issues. And like, I don't know. Yeah. There's, there's not a clear a hundred percent winner. I would argue though, that like classes as the mental model, and then take as much as you can out of the classes, like make util functions and stuff that do things in that you just import into the class and use.

And [00:23:00] like, you know, try to have the best of both worlds.

[00:23:03] Chuck: I challenge you to write that up.

[00:23:06] Robbie: Well, that's, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's, that's the philosophy I take with most stuff at work. Like there's a lot of stuff like computed properties and things that do weird stuff. Like, like fetching data in a computed property is a big no, no, but we do that some so like taking that out and making it a util and then like.

Awaiting and try catching it and not making it computed and like stuff like that. Like I think all of the, that's really another common theme, which also Astro got really right is like use the browser stuff. Like if you're, you should try catch everything, anything that could error in any way should always have a try catch.

And we forget that a lot. Cause we expect like our frameworks to save us with some kind of global error handler or whatever. Global error handlers are hard. I found out recently. Cause there's like. [00:24:00] Normal errors like literally like throw error then there's like unhandled rejections Which is like you had a rejection from the API or something and didn't handle it and like why those are separate and different I don't know and then like there's different levels that you can listen to those things on and like it's hard to catch everything so it's much easier to like don't do that don't have a global one and like Anything that should be caught, try catch it right there, and then you know you've got that error from that thing right there, and you can do whatever you want with it. I don't know what we were talking about before that that brought me into that, but

[00:24:38] Chuck: Well, just that the whole thing is hard. Like it's easy to get started. It's hard to do it right over time in an application, no matter how many like, and that's the thing, that's the other side of things is you go through docs and whatever else, and you can like get started and build a thing. But like, as that scales, you think just keep doing what you've been doing and it'll be fine and that's [00:25:00] usually not the case.

[00:25:01] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:25:02] Chuck: yeah,

[00:25:04] Robbie: But yeah, that's a rant over on the Ember stuff there, I think. So something that was interesting, we'll bounce around here because we want to talk some more about Astro in a sec, but something that was interesting that Theo posted that I think you responded to was it's like, is the bomber peak real?

There was like some, some kind of study about like drinking a little bit of alcohol actually makes your brain clearer or something. Did you read the details?

[00:25:29] Chuck: yeah, yeah. And so there's a point where it does like. Enhance cognitive focus or something like that, like whatever they, how do they say it or whatever, you know, there's an old XKCD comic about the Balmer peak and it's sort of like as you drink whiskey and you hit this peak, Steve Balmer some zoomers or whatever may not.

Understand or know who that is. So we should give some context there like help Steve Ballmer, former CEO of Microsoft and [00:26:00] crazy man. You should look up some videos. This is very funny. Um, developers, developers, developers, developers. That's all I'm going to give you there. But yeah, so anyway, they just say like to a certain point, like drinking your productive, productive, productive, and then you have like one more and you fall off the cliff, it's very funny.

To a degree, absolutely. Cause especially when I side hustle a ton and you'd be like late night and you're having a few drinks as you're going. And I essentially would just like, as I keep being productive and do it, yeah. I'm writing code and drink it a little bit. And then you finally kind of hit it and you're like, well, looks like it's bedtime.

Whatever the point that is, that's just what I'm done. So I do think it's real. And it's funny because there's been, I don't know, a trend. I feel like over the last week or whatever, seeing on Twitter, where like, people are like, Drinking is stupid. I would never drink. Drinking just ruins you. And while they're right, It is a part of who I am and what I do, so I'm resentful about it, and I don't think [00:27:00] it's stupid.

I think you're stupid, and you're just nerds.

[00:27:02] Robbie: Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot of that on everything. Everyone has opinions about

[00:27:07] Chuck: Mm hmm.

Don't eat meat, because, you know, whatever. Yeah, there's always something you

[00:27:13] Robbie: or only

[00:27:13] Chuck: you should be doing. Yeah,

[00:27:15] Robbie: take cold showers because hot showers are dumb. I always post about that one. Just being stupid being like I take hot showers like

[00:27:22] Chuck: Yeah, I mean, I tried some Wim Hof, and I actually used to do Cold Plunge, and it felt Kind of nice, like the flush that you get. I actually, I don't like cold shower as much. I like the whole like cold plunge. You quickly get cold as fuck and then like let that flush kind of just As your body warms back up,

[00:27:40] Robbie: So I believe in like the science of it. I just like being comfortable so I don't want to like jump in something cold or like and I guess a lot of things that are comfortable like eating comfort foods drinking alcohol are you know bad for you But, also, like, you have to [00:28:00] enjoy life, if you're not, what the fuck are you doing for, like,

[00:28:03] Chuck: and everything's a crapshoot anyway, too, because you could have like, oh, constant health nut, vegetarian, ran 20 miles a day, whatever else, drop dead at like 65, right? And then eats a plate of bacon every morning, smokes six packs a day, and just whatever else, lives to 95. Like, you just don't know. You know, it's

[00:28:25] Robbie: really think the happier the person, the longer they'll live. Unless they have a, like, really bad health issue, obviously. But, like, there's always those people, like, you know, the smuckers jars, or whatever. It's like, they're a hundred, and they're like, what's your secret? And, like, I have a glass of whiskey every night.


[00:28:41] Chuck: Right. On a smucker's jar, huh?

[00:28:43] Robbie: and enjoying yourself, and like, That, that makes your body want to keep going.

[00:28:48] Chuck: So there's so the National Geographic had that sponsor that study about the blue zones and then there's been like spinoffs about it. I think actually there's a Netflix show recently, but there's books and everything else that like, [00:29:00] even like 10 years ago. And it studies these areas where there's the highest concentration of centurions and, you know, having purpose and.

I don't know, like, support and purpose and things like that, and like, moderation too.

[00:29:14] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:29:14] Chuck: a glass of whiskey versus six, you know, this is why I'm gonna die soon, but

[00:29:18] Robbie: well, at the core of it, it's the chemicals, like, they live really long cause they eat like, stuff they grew outside, like they get some beans, they get some corn, like, they can even have like high carbs and whatever,

[00:29:33] Chuck: Did you

[00:29:34] Robbie: doesn't matter, because the thing that kills all of us Americans is everything has like, hydrogenated oils and shit,

[00:29:41] Chuck: out of here. I'm gonna outlive you, actually, once I move.

[00:29:44] Robbie: Just cook with butter. Like turns out it's worked for thousands of years and it's good for you. Like, yes, it has calories, but so do lots of things.

[00:29:55] Chuck: Yeah, calorie is not a calorie. I think we know that. Yes, caloric [00:30:00] deficiency has some benefits, but also like, what you choose out of those calories and how your body deals with it. Yeah, that's certainly a thing. But butter, it was not Was not subsidized in any way in this country. So that's a problem if we subsidize milk, you know, dairy products, maybe it would be somewhere else, but we subsidized soybeans and, and corn, other things.

Also, did you know that you know what it is? It's about it's corn. It's got the juice.

[00:30:30] Robbie: It does have the juice. Yes.

[00:30:32] Chuck: It's got the juice.

[00:30:34] Robbie: I read you may already know this. We may have talked about this, but like the canola oil was just like, Engine oil for like fighter jets and then they were like we have a lot of this left Like what can we use it for let's cook with it? Like are you kidding me?

[00:30:51] Chuck: I mean, this is a capitalist society and we're not, we're willing to just kill off a few people in the in [00:31:00] the spirit of

[00:31:00] Robbie: well the health care system is for profit so we really give no fucks

[00:31:04] Chuck: Yeah, exactly. And, yeah, for profit. Yeah, anyway, you're just really selling it. America, fuck yeah. You know, freedom isn't

[00:31:11] Robbie: again to save the motherfucking day. Yeah

[00:31:13] Chuck: you know, yeah. This is definitely not a children's show.

[00:31:18] Robbie: No, it's not team america world police check it out

[00:31:21] Chuck: who would have thought that there would be this much singing in this episode? More than anything, I, I look forward to the video snippet that doesn't mention Tailwind. Oh shit, I just said it and now it's going to be the snippet.

[00:31:34] Robbie: All right, I got our quota up. Ha ha

[00:31:37] Chuck: Adam gives you four cents for every Tailwind mention.

You're just trying to work on next Christmas's fund.

[00:31:44] Robbie: Yep.

[00:31:45] Chuck: I mean, I know we don't want to talk a little bit of tech, but we should, yeah, we'll have to talk about Christmas a little bit too.

[00:31:51] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah, we can spend like a couple minutes on Astro real quick just to wrap it up and

[00:31:57] Chuck: Yeah, because we love Astro. I [00:32:00] mean, I'm not wearing it right now because it warmed up, but let's see here. My astro beanie or toque for my Canadian friends.

[00:32:10] Robbie: Ha ha ha

[00:32:11] Chuck: toque. It's a nice one too. Columbia. That's what jumped right on it. I

[00:32:15] Robbie: Yeah, you can get beanies from us now at Whiskey. Fund.

[00:32:19] Chuck: Wow. My idea came to fruition. So often listener, I say things to Robbie and I'm pretty sure he ignores me because he thinks I'm not good at that, which is everything. Except for talking to this mic, I guess. Still lets me do that. But yeah, I mentioned that a beanie with, like, a little tipped whiskey thing would be cool swag, and there it

[00:32:40] Robbie: Yeah, I agree. The only thing that I'm worried about, well not worried, worried, but like, It flips up like a beanie does in the front. And so the logo will be on that. So if I want to wear it fully extended like this, I can't. Cause it'll

[00:32:53] Chuck: Beckham style. Well, you can, you just have to, like, you won't get to, you just flip it around. You just put that at the back, [00:33:00] and then if it's long enough, that just kind of flops down.

[00:33:03] Robbie: That's true. Yeah, I've been wearing this one a lot because it's been too hot for like a thick real Doubled over like wool inside beanie. So i'm just like this is like my lightweight fiori thing

[00:33:17] Chuck: Sponsored by Viore. If you have too much money and you like to be comfortable, Viore. com.

[00:33:24] Robbie: Yeah. Use the promo code. They don't give out promo codes and get no discount.

[00:33:28] Chuck: Yeah. People keep buying this shit. We don't need to. That's their other thing. Yeah.

[00:33:36] Robbie: Yeah. Their black Friday sale was like, get a free beanie. If you buy like a couple hundred dollars or something, it's

[00:33:42] Chuck: Yeah, that's just a side effect of having too many customers and nice weather patterns.

[00:33:48] Robbie: Yeah. But anyway, Astro is cool. It's very easy to convert stuff to, especially if you're using tailwind. Because you can just copy over your HTML and like install the Tailwind [00:34:00] plugin and it just works.

[00:34:02] Chuck: we've been doing that on a bunch of things. Some of our static sites using old ones like the shepherdjs. dev landing page, demo page. That was just straight HTML. But some of the benefits of throwing into Astro is just fast build times, less, less less pages. But if you want to add pages, I want to do maybe a blog there.

Easy to add Astro and not just try to replicate your whole site.

[00:34:29] Robbie: Yeah, it still has Pages Router. Don't have to put stuff in the App Router.

[00:34:34] Chuck: View transition. Yeah. Yeah. App routers for losers. App routers for people that want PHP just didn't know it existed.

[00:34:44] Robbie: Yep. Yeah App Router actually has, this is a tangent now, but it actually gives you a lot of stuff that you can't do in the Pages one, which is frustrating.

[00:34:54] Chuck: purpose.

[00:34:55] Robbie: Yeah, because they want you to convert, but I'm never going to do it.

[00:34:58] Chuck: Yeah. [00:35:00] I love like the pages router file based router is one of the reasons why I advocated for next JS. Originally I was like, there's so many sane defaults added here. Yes. I love this. And Oh, API is built in full stack out as part of this whole thing. Super awesome. Oh, they become routes. I don't know what, what you're giving me with this other thing.

And I refuse to get information to have that argument. I just say, I don't care. No, I don't care. I want the pages router. I will stay on next 13 forever.

[00:35:32] Robbie: You can actually, you can update, it still works. It's, I probably won't at some point, but it still works in 14.

[00:35:39] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah.

You can make SQL queries

[00:35:42] Robbie: I'm, it's really hilarious that they did all this stuff to make it really easy. And now And this is an assumption because I don't know anything about AppRouter, but it's like probably the same as configuring routes in Ember.

You're like, this is a route, it has these params, whatever. And everyone's like, oh, Ember's so [00:36:00] dumb. Well, you're doing the same thing now.

[00:36:01] Chuck: well, that's the funny thing is that Ember influenced a lot of things. Ember CLI influenced angular CLI, Ember router. Is what react router was initially based on, which, you know, that became remix and all these other things that are cool and interesting. And I, I agree they are cool and interesting. And I think borrow and be appreciative and everybody has like a a place and, and whatever preference you want.

But like, it is very funny that like some of the things that Ember did really well. are embraced in obvious patterns in other more popular things. What are you looking at?

[00:36:42] Robbie: I was trying to listen to you while still getting Jake to stop licking himself.

[00:36:49] Chuck: Let me tell you something about dogs. That's what they like about being dogs. Licking themselves. So, I'm

[00:36:55] Robbie: Well, yes, but it's like behind me and it's distracting.

[00:36:59] Chuck: [00:37:00] That's almost x rated. Again, not a children's show, so.

[00:37:03] Robbie: Oh,

[00:37:04] Chuck: listener, if you were looking for family friendly content.

[00:37:09] Robbie: the subscribers just keep going down.

[00:37:11] Chuck: Yeah, they keep going down. It's every day my dog they go down.


[00:37:16] Robbie: I think that's enough tech.

[00:37:18] Chuck: Yeah, tech,

[00:37:20] Robbie: Astro is cool. Check it out. It

[00:37:21] Chuck: Yeah, we like Astro. We think it's a good, I think it's a very good starting point for lots of things that you're thinking about. Particularly websites, right? Like, it's not a web application, it's a website. But, you can mirror in to websites for certain routes right within your app.

And I think that is super cool too.

[00:37:40] Robbie: Yeah, I think it's the right paradigm of like build things as a website first. And then if you discover you need tons of interactivity, build stuff in React that you can then shove in, still in Astro, like, you know, don't make it all re render automatically, or like, I posted a [00:38:00] screenshot of Twitter's code, I don't know if you saw that, but it's like, 20 divs deep,

[00:38:06] Chuck: Well,

[00:38:07] Robbie: the same auto generated class name, like, we've gone too far, guys.


[00:38:11] Chuck: Well, I also kind of, that was one of the things that React kind of started doing, and that, like, semantic HTML started getting bastardized and destroyed, right, by a bunch of, like, spas. And because they were just necessary to be functional and it was like hard to think about the context of your content, which had been important for a little while before when you were trying to make these things and, you know, think about that in the high, like once you start separating all this stuff, it's hard to think about.

But yeah, I, I just think that. What people thought 15 years ago about like, I want to start a blog and they would start with something like WordPress or I don't know what was some movable type was another one. There was a few different engines behind that, right?

[00:38:55] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:38:55] Chuck: basically Astro is the easy engine to that and gives [00:39:00] you semantic HTML, like just write good

[00:39:02] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:39:03] Chuck: at all magically happens.

So I like that. And And then, you know, the, the barrier to entry is easier. If we can just get GoDaddy to do one click Astro installs, we're going to win.

[00:39:17] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah. I think it'll get there. And. Oh, man, I had a Segway and then my brain stopped working,

[00:39:27] Chuck: Oh, and then you, you then you ran it off a cliff. Is that what happened to your Segway or what, what happened to it?

[00:39:33] Robbie: Yep. Yeah. They don't make them anymore. So.

[00:39:37] Chuck: Really? That company went out of business.

[00:39:39] Robbie: no, they're in business. They make all the scooters, but they don't make the like stand up

[00:39:43] Chuck: Oh,

[00:39:44] Robbie: thing, you know, as a Segway. Yeah. They stopped making those.

[00:39:47] Chuck: That's a shame. Those were kind of fun, actually. Cool. Anyway, so you moved offices recently because you just constantly over this past year, you have been in many places.[00:40:00]

[00:40:00] Robbie: I thought we were talking about you moving

[00:40:01] Chuck: Yeah, yeah, we're gonna get to

[00:40:02] Robbie: But I, yes, I technically I mean, I worked from home, mostly, but then worked from the Middleburg office,

[00:40:10] Chuck: and

[00:40:11] Robbie: you know, a couple times a week. Yeah. But now I have to be in the office all the time, which I love. RTO is the best, super happy about it.

[00:40:21] Chuck: It's a great studio made some amazing films that are just like pinnacles in our culture and society So, oh that was RKO. Sorry RTO. Yes return to office. Sorry that is making Amazon so much more money from what I hear like it has really

[00:40:37] Robbie: Is it though? I, yeah, I don't, I don't think it does anything. It makes, it's all about tax breaks and localities that there are offices in and like the whole argument that there's like better. Oh my God. Dogs.

[00:40:52] Chuck: So, the argument is that it is Better for productivity. But the reality is, is there's a shadow [00:41:00] business for a bunch of these businesses. And I can empathize or I can understand a little bit of that ideology in that you have real estate associated to your business, utilizing said real estate and having utilization there and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I mean, that like speaks to that story has nothing to do with your day to day job. It has everything to do with. Meeting a headcount meeting, meeting tax breaks, like whatever else, like basically Jeff Bezos is an NFL owner and he fleeced a municipality to get a building with a promise of increased, you know, revenue share because people are going to buy lunch and pay for parking and whatever else in the area.

And then things happened. And then also people still were able to do their jobs by not doing that. You know, they don't care about any of that, the productivity tools, they don't care.

[00:41:51] Robbie: I don't understand the point in general, because when they started building this remote work was already a big thing and that's this is probably true for [00:42:00] other companies, not just an Amazon thing like everyone's building these monuments to like their own ego of like we have this huge company with this huge headquarters and it's cool and like, look how cool we are.

And then it's like, well, everyone can work the same from home and you could have saved billions of dollars and building them.

[00:42:18] Chuck: ship has

[00:42:19] Robbie: Physical

[00:42:20] Chuck: let me present a counter argument around this too. So it has less to do with you as a developer, right? Who has had remote work situations for quite some time. And more to do with folks who didn't quite have that luxury for quite some time. There's a lot of the workforce that got enlightened.

To the possibilities of remote work, right? And we have to crush those hopes and dreams. And so we have to crush it all at once for everyone. We got to do it for everybody all at the same time. And then I envision down the line engineering as they have for, you know, 10, 15, 20 years been able to show. the same productivity over time and start to [00:43:00] scale that back and out and have special permissions for those teams because it's like, Oh, well, yeah, you know, they're on their computers all the time.

They don't really have like the social aspect that you do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think, I think we'll get that back. I think that will continue to happen. It'll just go back to that. They just need everyone else to forget for a little while. And they need everyone. to suffer, because if some are suffering and others are sort of like, Oh yeah, I know it is stupid, but see, we all did our job just fine.

They can't have that. That can't be the narrative. So you've got to go forward and, you know, suffer in order to make that all work. I mean, like I said, there's a shadow economy around it.

[00:43:43] Robbie: Yeah. I think it's also like, just an easy way to be able to fire people, and not give them severance and stuff. Be like, oh you weren't in the office when we said you were supposed to be, so we can just cut you loose with no notice and no severance and you're [00:44:00] gone.

[00:44:00] Chuck: wonder how effective that is for, you know, forced attrition over time, though. How many people really dig in? I mean, what, you might get 2 percent of people or something that are just like no, or I live too far or anything.

[00:44:13] Robbie: There's a lot. So there's I think it's like 38, 000 people in the remote advocacy channel on Slack. And,

[00:44:21] Chuck: Well,

[00:44:22] Robbie: you know, of that, like, I don't know how many are just quitting, but you see every day, there's a few posts of people like my last day at Amazon today. Cause like, you know, I can't. Can RTO, like even people that live, you know, close, like there'll be, it'll be a one and a half hour drive each way, but they're within the commuting range.

So like they have to commute and then it's like, that sucks. Like, and there's, what about the people that there was this RTO mandate? They all move, you know, buy a new house, get a new mortgage at a terrible interest rate, and then they go, Ooh, everyone's laid off. You don't have a [00:45:00] job. it's a really fucked up situation for

[00:45:02] Chuck: Absolutely. Yeah I think the whole thing is if the whole thing hasn't told you that like these decrees of where you know We work together. We're a family. We spend all this time together. I mean that only Serves one purpose and that is to like, have you stop questioning, like, what do you do with friends and family that you care about?

Like you do a lot of things you don't want to do because, but you're like, this is what we do for each other. We like pitch in and we do whatever business relationships are not like that. And, but then you have to change the narrative around that. But then conversely, when it benefits the shareholders or it benefits, you know, executives to show progress and profit.

Then of course it happens, like, but then again, like, if you're surprised, you're just naive.

[00:45:54] Robbie: Yeah. I mean, the whole world is stacked against everyone. The, [00:46:00] like, top 1 percent controls everything. So, like, whatever they decide. It doesn't matter what we care about at all. And I don't think that we're going to change that anytime soon.

[00:46:10] Chuck: No, no. But that's the, the premise of capitalism. If you believe in capitalism, and if you are a proponent of freedoms in that way in this country, well then you should embrace that. That is the reality. Whatever your emotional feeling or how that affects you personally, obviously that's something else. But this is the system you embrace because it gives you both failure and opportunity, or it

[00:46:35] Robbie: I like the opportunity and, like, You know, a lot more people should take advantage of some of these opportunities, but it also begs the question of like, what happens in other countries? Because like, you know, the big example of a communist country right now is like, China is huge and communist and whatever, but like, how does that work?

Because. [00:47:00] People still have money, they still do leisure activities, like they go to the movies or whatever, like so does everyone like It feels like the same thing, just you're able to pay everyone even less, like they have no way to be like Hey I need to make more money, or like whatever, cause you're all paid the same that they decide and then Like, the rich people are still really rich and still game the system So it doesn't really matter.

[00:47:29] Chuck: Yep. They gave them the system. I mean, there's definitely a tier to that where everybody gets to, you know, there's a, there's a monetary level where you get to maintain and keep money, but it's not true communism, which is equal across the board and everybody gets what they need. I think there's that aspect of it.

I think that, I mean, I would, I'm naive enough to say that, like, anything I've seen or have an opinion about may not be based in any reality. But [00:48:00] like, You see they have McDonald's, they have movies, they have entertainment, they have like things so that a middle class exists So somehow that's been like enabled through the system, but I I don't know Specifically what's going on there?

So I would just who knows

[00:48:19] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:48:20] Chuck: But Yeah, I don't I I don't think there's any traditional Interpretation of any of these frameworks that exist in reality, right? Capitalism is what it is, but it also is highly askewed. Socialism is what it is, but it has its askewed bits. Obviously communism as well, like all of them have like plus minuses and also like a way to play the game.

And what set of rules do you want

[00:48:48] Robbie: Yeah. I guess that's true, that like, it doesn't matter what you choose, the powerful, rich people are going to figure out a way around the system. So it's like, it really doesn't matter at the end of the day.[00:49:00]

[00:49:00] Chuck: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that's exactly what it is. So it's like, what are the, what are the Effects or artifacts of that system that are, that are important to you and then lean into that part and then the rest can kind of, you know, you can. You can live in a socialist society and work in a capitalist society, for example, and that's the global economy.

And I think that is what has really like changed all of these things. It's not like directly one or the other because we're now a global economy, right? Like we're not capitalists within our own capitalist society and are autonomous in any way. We're very dependent on other societies. So be it a communist one in order to have, like, cheap labor, or be it a socialist one to have, I don't fuck all, I don't know, something fun sports for me, I don't know cheap medical if

[00:49:54] Robbie: people.

[00:49:55] Chuck: Yeah, that's where the happy but not rich people live yeah, so it's a sort of like, [00:50:00] I don't know, like, I, I think it's all kind of like smudged up.

[00:50:04] Robbie: yeah, that's fair. It's got really deep into this. So, let's stop that.

[00:50:09] Chuck: okay. Well, let's talk about so my background has changed for anyone watching this on YouTube and Instead of seeing a clever octopus octopi like character behind me you see a ladder and a very green background. And that is because

[00:50:26] Robbie: post you'll see Chuck's old office behind him still, because we'll just green

[00:50:32] Chuck: yeah, we'll just screen screen. Oh, I should have done a screen grab before I left. I didn't do that. Anyway, that would have been fun, but didn't. So enjoy that. That takes forethought and I don't have it. So I have moved from the coworking space that I had been in for the last couple of years into my Children's playhouse in my backyard.

And that's because it has a door that locks and that's good and doesn't cost 800 a month. So those two things made this, yeah, these are [00:51:00] two grandiose benefits that I, I sought and accomplished. And I think it is just as effective, although somebody's like, I don't know. Lowering outside or maybe

[00:51:11] Robbie: I don't hear

[00:51:12] Chuck: or something.

Well, that's good. So these are effective so everyone apple airpods max, they're effective Yeah

[00:51:21] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we're, we're all adjusting to new things now, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's kind of nice to have your own space though. I mean, I guess you, if you have a longterm lease at an office, it's fine. You can kind of set it all up how you want, but like having the ability to, to know you can make improvements and like do things the way you want and it's kind of just there for you.

So, that's kind of nice.

[00:51:47] Chuck: Yeah, that's one nice benefit. I mean, square footage wise, this is probably like twice the size of where I was, but the footprint is weird because there's like this ladder here. And that's because it's structural. I was like, [00:52:00] oh, maybe I'll take it out. No, I can't, because there's like a weird second layer for kids level there to like play around.

If I take that, the whole thing falls down. So that seems bad. So ladder stays here for now, but it gives me some storage space and whatever else. Yeah, you know, it'll evolve. Over time, we will see where it goes, but I have access to the office 24 seven. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing temperature wise.

It there's massive swings. I can't, it was like 40 degrees this morning and then now it's 65 this afternoon. So it was like a bit cold this morning. I'm a little warm, a lot of things to adjust to in that sense, but I don't know. Yeah. Like, like you said, it just kind of like came down to a decision and I was like, no, no, I, I don't want to pay for this anymore.

I will just make this other thing work and have flexibility and see, you know, see what happens from there. You know, it turns out like unlimited Diet Coke isn't worth 800 a month. I can order a lot of Diet Coke

[00:52:58] Robbie: Yeah. [00:53:00] Well, Diet Coke is surprisingly hard to get online because the people at the coworking space love Diet Coke. Every time I go there, I've put like 30 in and I come back like five minutes later and they're all gone. And I'm like, Okay, it'd be nice if I could just order tons of Diet Coke to my house, and then like, just take it with me when I go.

No. Like, if you want to get Diet Coke on Amazon, it's like, triple the price.

[00:53:23] Chuck: Hmm. What about Costco?

[00:53:25] Robbie: well yeah, you can get it, you can get it locally. I haven't looked at CrossCo online to see if they would

[00:53:30] Chuck: No, I Costco online a lot. I haven't tried to ship like sodas or anything, but I definitely buy things Costco online.

[00:53:36] Robbie: I think the, the shipping is the problem. Cause soda's kinda heavy, and they're all kinda just like, it's not worth it, just go buy it at the store. They're like, they don't want you to order it online. However, like, Celsers, you can get easily. Like, I get a ton of like, San Pellegrino online.

[00:53:52] Chuck: Costco also. You can get Pellegrinos and need the Kirkland brand. There's a lot of like good, like soda like [00:54:00] options.

[00:54:00] Robbie: Yeah. Well, the whole point was, like, not having to go anywhere, and having unlimited options, and having it all shipped to me. But, like, that kind of fell apart, because I used to use Boxed, and then Boxed went bankrupt. So,

[00:54:14] Chuck: Good to know. I didn't use them. Maybe that's why. Excuse me.

[00:54:17] Robbie: Like Costco, but all online and turns out the shipping costs eat you alive and there's the margins are low for like a wholesaler anyways, like they make like 10 percent max.

So like they're already making nothing, then shipping costs are insane and like they make like one or 2 percent at the end of the day. So

[00:54:37] Chuck: Yeah. And if you're not getting the volume, then you're fucked.

[00:54:40] Robbie: yeah, yep,

[00:54:41] Chuck: you just have to pay people and everything else. So, it is recently Christmas. I think we're going to talk briefly about Christmas booty.

[00:54:51] Robbie: Booty?

[00:54:52] Chuck: yeah, you know, like pirates get treasure. It's, what? Professor, what's another word for pirate [00:55:00] treasure? You never heard that Beastie Boys song? Well, I think it's booty. Booty. Anyway. You're welcome, more singing. Yeah, so how did Christmas go for you? I can't wait to talk about my Christmas present, I'm gonna tell ya. It's a

[00:55:15] Robbie: well, Christmas was good. We had we hosted Caitlin's mom, sister Some people. No, brother, I don't know, just, and then her mom's like new man. I don't know how to describe that relationship.

[00:55:33] Chuck: There's a lot of things I could say that probably

[00:55:35] Robbie: well, a few,

[00:55:37] Chuck: air.

[00:55:37] Robbie: like a few people it was good. Like we did a few things, like went to the mall and went to some restaurants, whatever.

Like Christmas day itself was. Pretty good. It was like, I was expecting Finn to be more excited. Like, his first time with Santa, and he's like, Like, he was excited for that concept. Like, he come, [00:56:00] came out of his room and was like, Oh, Santa came. Like, let me wake everyone up. And like, was trying to knock on doors and like, get people to come down.

But like, he would open like, a present or two, and then just kind of be like, over it. Like, it's too much stimulation, I think. So he was like, I thought it was like, and maybe next year it will be, where it's like, Oh my god, let me open everything as fast as I can, and like, I love presents, but it was more like, the concept was exciting, and then the actual opening was like, too much.

So, overall he liked it. He asked for a pewter from Santa so he could work. So he he's been, been doing all of my TypeScript code for me. Yeah,

[00:56:36] Chuck: good. That's why we have kids.

[00:56:37] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:56:38] Chuck: That's why we have kids. To work on the farm. And our farm is a computer farm.

[00:56:42] Robbie: Yeah. But he's been loving that and yeah, overall it was, it was good.

[00:56:48] Chuck: Nice.

[00:56:49] Robbie: Tell me about yours.

[00:56:50] Chuck: Well, it's funny because I mean, here's the thing about kids is they're always going to disappoint you, whatever your expectation is, they're going to do the opposite. It's [00:57:00] just happens. So disappointments probably like pretty strong, but when you have an, an expectation, just be prepared for other things because it just tends to go whatever other way.

Yeah, my kids get nuts about opening presents and we also host, but we do like morning time with just us. That's the Santa and mom and dad presents and they go nuts and blah, blah, blah. It's very interesting because my daughter got like the largest Barbie house I've ever seen in my life. It's like five plus feet tall, over four feet wide.

It was, it's huge. It's so, I mean, she needs a stepstool to get on that, like to play in the top

[00:57:37] Robbie: You can like fit the dream house inside that.

[00:57:39] Chuck: Inside the dream house. Yeah. And then of course, like my mother got also got her like a small Barbie house because we were like, we got our Barbie house. You don't need to do that. And she's like, cool.

I'm going to get that anyway. And some other stuff. So it's like half the playroom is Barbie and you got to go with that. And then like, my son is really like, he's very much into Legos and he's really into games. And so like, he's like, yeah, I asked [00:58:00] Santa for this game and you know, a game is that big. And so it's like an interesting thing for him, but we got him a bike too, but he give a shit, but a new bike.

Cause he's. Getting taller. He's like, so we're like, Oh, we'll get you a new bike. And he's like, Oh, that's kind of cool. What about this game? And then he'll be like, well, I got this and she got that. What, what the heck? Like

[00:58:20] Robbie: But the size doesn't matter. Like the game gives you tons of Yeah. , no size does matter, but not in terms of gifts.

[00:58:29] Chuck: listen, that's a narrative that us white guys are supposed to spread. You know, it doesn't matter. No, it doesn't. Silly fun. Anyway, just falling into anyway but my gift, I want to talk about my gift. What did I get? Like, and my kids are still really like confused and interested in what my gift was.

[00:58:49] Robbie: Okay.

[00:58:50] Chuck: got a really fancy toilet seat.

[00:58:52] Robbie: Ooh, is it a bidet?

[00:58:55] Chuck: It's, it is a bidet. So it's like the Toto [00:59:00] washlet. And I, there was a hood. Okay. It was to say I

[00:59:04] Robbie: looked at fancy toilet seats

[00:59:05] Chuck: Worth it. Buy them. Yeah. I was in San Francisco last month and was at the Imperial Hotel, and I guess this is like a very common thing in Japan or something.

And so anyway, all of their bathrooms have this like fancy toilet seat and it's a whole thing where it's like warmed.

[00:59:23] Robbie: Mm-Hmm?

[00:59:24] Chuck: do your business and then it has like a washing component and then it has a dryer component and it is amazing. It's life changing. I've I mean, I've been to Europe. I've used bidets before, like freshening up or

[00:59:36] Robbie: Oh yeah. It's,

[00:59:37] Chuck: is like post your business. No, it's not. So I got the toilet. I was just like, yes, I want that. Can I just this is a great weekend. Can I have that all the time? So I got that. And, you know, hooked it all up and whatever else. And my kids are just like, why do you like toilets so much, dad? I'm like, because it's a great [01:00:00] feeling.

Like I come out of this and I just really enjoy it. I think it's worth it. I think like, like 300 bucks or something on Amazon. Like, that's not crazy for what you get. Very happy with it.

[01:00:13] Robbie: they had, I don't know if it was the same model, but they, they had something like that at on like 90 percent of the toilets at the Netflix offices. And it's, it has a extra benefit of like, I don't know if this is a thing that it's supposed, like why it does this if it's just for like ambiance, but it like waterfalls water while you're sitting there.

So it makes a little bit of noise. So like, it's not just a dead quiet bathroom. There's like, water flowing while you're like, sitting

[01:00:44] Chuck: benefit in a public restroom for

[01:00:45] Robbie: Yeah, yeah. So it's doing that as a heated seat. Of course it has all the bidet normal stuff. The, you know, wash and dry

[01:00:51] Chuck: just like comes out and you can like adjust things too if you need and you can make it oscillating. I mean, [01:01:00] yes, I don't know. I know it sounds ridiculous to anyone who hasn't had this experience, but like. It's really great. Like, I don't know. Men, we spend a lot of time in these toilets. I don't know what's wrong with

[01:01:15] Robbie: For the heated seat alone, it's worth it.

[01:01:17] Chuck: Right there, in the winter, heated seat. Yeah. Like, that. I don't know. I think all of it is worth it. I think that, like, I mean, if I may be so crass, like, you get the water washing you off a little bit, and then a little heat, like, Just under your balls in, in the taint area. It's like, it's amazing. I have yet to come out of the restroom and not have a smile on my face.

And, and my wife is like, exactly. This is why we got this. There it

[01:01:46] Robbie: thought the taint was a React thing.

[01:01:48] Chuck: Right? It is I love that someone kind of like, Put a little Easter egg of taint. They named something taint. Actually, I want to create taint js [01:02:00] Taint. Ts taint us. I I made the taint Us.

[01:02:06] Robbie: well, we are over time here, so this one took a few weird turns, communism taints, you know, what, what's not to love?

[01:02:15] Chuck: you can't do better than that though. I'm pretty sure you can't, but.

[01:02:18] Robbie: yeah, all right, well, thanks everyone for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe, leave us some ratings and reviews. We appreciate it. And we will catch you next time.