Whiskey Web and Whatnot

A whiskey fueled fireside chat with your favorite web developers.


127: Monthly Malarkey: JavaScript Modules, HTML, and Ryan Reynolds

Show Notes

In this episode of Whiskey Web and Whatnot, hosts RobbieTheWagner and Charles William Carpenter III dive into their experiences with the Astro framework and discuss the challenges with JavaScript module types. They also share insights on managing work life around their families and house pets.

The casual conversation continues with a discussion on TV series like 'The Last of Us', 'The Changeling', 'Wednesday', and 'Black Bird', as well as an interesting back and forth about international and domestic flight experiences. They sign off with some conjecture about the potential for AI, promising a more detailed conversation about this in the next episode.

Key Takeaways

  • [01:11] - Discussing Podcast Popularity and Listener Appreciation
  • [01:39] - Exploring the Challenges of Explaining Podcasts to Older Generations
  • [02:25] - Whiskey Tasting Session: Never Sink Spirits Bourbon Whiskey
  • [11:27] - Diving into the Complexities of JavaScript Modules
  • [14:44] - Exploring the Potential of Astro for Web Development
  • [25:58] - The Power of Tailwind in Web Development
  • [26:24] - Offering Web Development Help to Local Fire Department
  • [28:44] - Discussing the Importance of SEO for Podcast Visibility
  • [30:23] - The Economics of Database Usage
  • [31:24] - The Business Model of Vercel
  • [32:40] - The Art of Infiltration and Persuasion
  • [34:20] - The Challenges of Switching to Vercel
  • [35:24] - The Entertainment Roundup
  • [35:46] - The Dark Side of the American Healthcare System
  • [47:29] - The Joys and Challenges of Hosting Christmas
  • [54:14] - The Pros and Cons of Moving to Italy
  • [01:00:34] - The Injustice of Airline Bailouts

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[00:00:05] Robbie: Yo, yo, yo, welcome to the Whiskey While Loop with your hosts Steve Ballmer and Brendan Eich. Just kidding!

[00:00:14] Chuck: We, we wilin out.

[00:00:16] Robbie: This is Whiskey, Web, and Whatnot with Robbie the Wagner and Charles William Carpenter the Third.

[00:00:23] Chuck: That's right. Still the third and I haven't been demoted to fourth quite yet, but it could happen. It could happen.

[00:00:31] Robbie: So you, moving up in numbers is a higher rank.

[00:00:34] Chuck: Is it? I don't know. It's hard to say. I feel like if you're like the first, you know, if you're not first, you're last.

[00:00:41] Robbie: That's what I hear.

[00:00:42] Chuck: Yeah, and

[00:00:46] Robbie: monthly malarkey. We might still talk a little tech, just because there's some things I want to mention. But, it's going to be mostly random stuff. We haven't released the other one yet, because I'm bad at descript and can't figure out how to make everything work yet.

[00:01:00] Yeah, so I'm, like, I want to try to drop it right before this month ends, and then we'll drop this one sometime next month. But

[00:01:05] Chuck: Hmm, everything we talk about will be like way past due.

[00:01:11] Robbie: We had Spotify wraps today and for 83 people where their number one podcast.

[00:01:17] Chuck: That's pretty nice.

[00:01:18] Robbie: maybe they listened to no other podcasts is maybe why, but either way, appreciate the listeners.

[00:01:24] Chuck: One of them is you. You listen to every episode, so one

of them

[00:01:27] Robbie: is

true. One of them is me.

[00:01:29] Chuck: Another is your mother, possibly.

[00:01:31] Robbie: I don't think my parents listened to it. I don't know that

[00:01:33] Chuck: They're like, is this in the newspaper? How do I get that?

[00:01:39] Robbie: I, I spent like an hour explaining what a podcast was to my mom's sisters who are older than she is and they still didn't seem to get it. They're like, is it like the radio? I'm like, yeah, it's kind of like the radio, but they're like, well, how does it make money? Or like, what do you do? Like, I'm like, well, you can do ads.

It's, you know, just like the radio. And they're like. I don't [00:02:00] know. They just didn't click with them.


[00:02:01] Chuck: do I

get it in my

[00:02:02] Robbie: in at a certain time? And I'm like, no, no, you can listen to them all online, like, you know, whatever. I don't think they understood.

[00:02:09] Chuck: So clearly they don't know what streaming or even what a DVR is probably, so. Let's,

[00:02:14] Robbie: I think they know what DVRs are just because cable companies have been good at upcharging unsuspecting people. Yeah.

[00:02:20] Chuck: I can record. I don't know what happened. Okay. Well, f Yeah, let's get to that. So, speaking of the whiskey, today's whiskey is by Never Sink Spirits. That sounds disgusting. Bourbon whiskey. It says it is made in New York. This one is 86 proof finished in apple brandy casks. Mine in particular says it's been aged for a minimum of 61 months, I believe it says, which is like a very specific and somewhat arbitrary number.

But couldn't Ooh, I have batch eight. What do you have on the, on the side? It'll tell you batch eight.

[00:02:57] Robbie: I have batch eight as well, but mine says [00:03:00] 43, I think.

[00:03:01] Chuck: Maybe you're blind or maybe I'm extra blind to anybody who sees the video. Let's see if that can happen.

[00:03:06] Robbie: How do we get it to focus?

[00:03:07] Chuck: like that. And

[00:03:09] Robbie: All right. Can you see that 43 online?

[00:03:13] Chuck: yeah, that looks like 43. So I don't, I don't, that doesn't make any sense. And I will send you a picture or post a picture of mine and see if that

is reasonable.

[00:03:23] Robbie: Why is it fill in a bowl? Like you're just going to make it up when you decide to take it out, I guess.

[00:03:29] Chuck: Maybe they took the same whiskey and they pulled certain bottles at different intervals to like, taste it at different finishes, I


[00:03:37] Robbie: wouldn't it be a different batch or they're saying it was the same batch, I guess, like of made product, but then they took it out at different times, I

[00:03:45] Chuck: I think, I think we're getting caught up in information we're not able to

confirm unless we

[00:03:49] Robbie: apple brandy cast sounds good.

[00:03:51] Chuck: Yep, it's weeded, so, I don't have the mash bill, but it is corn, wheat, and barley, so it's gonna have some sweetness there, and then finished in apple brandy, that sounds like something different to me too.[00:04:00]

[00:04:00] Robbie: It honestly smells just like apple brandy. Like, like ciders recently and putting apple brandy in them. And this smells exactly like that. Like it's,

[00:04:11] Chuck: You, right, yeah, no, it definitely has a, apple cider kind of, I smell a little nutmeg though, maybe.

[00:04:22] Robbie: Oh yeah.

[00:04:23] Chuck: Yeah, I'm

[00:04:23] Robbie: Maybe some apricot? Dried. Not that wet

[00:04:29] Chuck: difference. Yeah, no. Who even eats apricots, like, straight off a tree or wherever they

[00:04:35] Robbie: don't even know where you get them from not dried. That's an exotic thing.

[00:04:38] Chuck: Yeah, they're like tiny peaches in a way, right? If I recall

[00:04:42] Robbie: I've never seen a fresh one, I don't know.

[00:04:44] Chuck: Okay. They grow in Virginia. Well.

[00:04:54] Robbie: Hmm, that's smokier than I thought it would be.

[00:04:56] Chuck: Yeah, that's what I was going to say, like, I'm just chewing [00:05:00] it first, but it definitely is giving me notes I was not expecting. I definitely get like a mulled cider, but definitely with like a smokier finish. Hmm,

[00:05:13] Robbie: smokers where you, like, light shit on fire and, like, put more smoke in it, not just the smoke from the barrel. It, like, feels extra smoky. Or maybe, like, liquid fake smoke or something.

[00:05:25] Chuck: You know, yeah, I wonder, I mean, I guess it doesn't tell us anything or whatever else, but like, maybe they, like, charred the barrel before they put the whiskey in. It would be interesting to learn a little more

[00:05:35] Robbie: If they did not, then they've added something smoky. Because it's very smoky.

[00:05:45] Chuck: I don't think I'm getting, like, liquid smoke punch in the face, but I'm definitely getting it in the finish quite a bit. Yeah, but it very much feels like a strong mulled cider with that kind of campfire finish. I'm getting it, like, a campfire kind

[00:05:59] Robbie: [00:06:00] Yeah, it's like apple brandy mixed with the campfire yness of a scotch and like the whiskey notes of a like very corn forward like normal bourbon or something. So it's kind of a good mix of those three things. I'm not sure that it's super pleasing of a mix. I haven't decided yet, but it is definitely interesting.

[00:06:24] Chuck: Well, I mean, there we go. That's it. I guess we can just kind of talk our way through it a little bit. Yeah. I'm not sure if I like it or not. I know it's different. It is definitely interesting. I probably it's got a decent for a low proof. It actually has a decent amount of burn to it too, which is very interesting.

So it feels kind of like. High alcohol in a way. Has a nice, like, sweet apple pie smell to me. But then,

[00:06:52] Robbie: I


[00:06:53] Chuck: somebody


[00:06:54] Robbie: initial taste is very good, like, I really enjoy it, but then by the [00:07:00] time I swallow it, like, there's something really bitter or something that just like, smacks me in the back of my tongue, and I don't love it.

[00:07:07] Chuck: It softens up the more you have, actually. I feel like as you, sort of, salivatory glands open up. It's still got some burn on the way down, but it definitely softens up some. But it, then it starts to get a juice like quality to it. In the middle. I'm


[00:07:24] Robbie: I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say for the sophisticated whiskey drinker who likes a good scotch, this is gonna be Like a seven or maybe an eight, but I just don't love that flavor. And I think it's overpowering the flavors I do like. So for me, I think it's probably more like a five or six. We'll say six.

We'll round it up

[00:07:47] Chuck: That's still pretty generous for somebody who just said, I don't like that flavor.

[00:07:51] Robbie: but I'm giving it props on like the interestingness and the, like, if you liked really smoky stuff that this would be for [00:08:00] you. It's not really for me,

[00:08:02] Chuck: Hmm.

[00:08:04] Robbie: I don't

[00:08:04] Chuck: it's taken a real swing at being unique, but for a whiskey. I kind of think of it more of so there's the Campfire whiskey By a quick blank. It's that Utah distillery where they mix all kinds of stuff and it's they've got like a Boo rye, which is like bourbon rye blend. They've got a campfire whiskey What is that called?

They have mid

[00:08:29] Robbie: we had it?

[00:08:30] Chuck: night's dram if we well, there we go. We need to go down that catalog because there's some good and interesting things there Coming soon to a theater near you I'm gonna say, yeah, like, as a, like, kitschy holiday whiskey, this is interesting. I don't know that I would go back to it very often outside of that.

Could probably make, like, some fun little holiday cocktails with it, too. We got three 7 5s, and I think theirs are, like, 55 bucks a pop, so for, like, a half bottle, I think [00:09:00] that's a little pricier also, though, for something interesting, so,

[00:09:04] Robbie: yeah, yeah

[00:09:09] Chuck: are, that, That have executed well and interesting for interesting sake isn't quite enough for me.

I'll that said I'll probably Finish this and have another one as we talk but outside of that. I don't know where I'm going with it I'm giving it a four dear listener or 83 listeners, I guess now i'm going for if you have a chance to try it in the holidays Sure, not sure. I would like rush out to buy a bottle I wouldn't be surprised if you get a good deal total wine next month on this one

[00:09:39] Robbie: Yeah, I think I think you make a good point that like if you put this in a really sweet cocktail, like even just a cider with tons of mauling spices in it, I think that smokiness would get balanced out and it would be better. So I may do that later.

[00:09:54] Chuck: But I think a scotch drinker that likes smoke is gonna feel like this is too sweet for them. [00:10:00] And so, you know, if they're seeking just like a sipping whiskey, they're gonna get disappointed here too. But,

[00:10:07] Robbie: tried to be too interesting.

[00:10:08] Chuck: yeah, I think they were definitely trying to do their own thing. And I looked on their website to try to get some information, and the most recent version of this is actually in a it's in, It's aged in barrels that had this aperitif that has like apple brandy and something else together.

So I think they've evolved it beyond this. They're like, we're on to something, but it's not quite hitting what else? Yeah, because I do like apple brandy, and I think the brandies can be pretty interesting and nice. So to try to bring like a weeded whiskey to it. I mean kudos to you for trying. Just you know, this one doesn't kill it for me.

[00:10:48] Robbie: I think they'll get there. I like their branding. I like their commitment to being unique. We'll definitely try more of what they put out later.

[00:10:54] Chuck: Yeah, well they a bunch of city slickers though. You know, this is made in New York, so [00:11:00] I don't know. The misnomer is that


[00:11:02] Robbie: New York, New York city, or

[00:11:04] Chuck: Yeah, New


[00:11:05] Robbie: why it's so small and expensive.

[00:11:08] Chuck: Yeah. Right, exactly. Like the Hudson River ones. Small and expensive and weird. Like, this is better than that weird maple syrup pancake whiskey.

I would definitely have this over that any day.

[00:11:22] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:11:23] Chuck: So what kind of malarkey you trying to talk about today?

[00:11:27] Robbie: Well, I'm a little bit confused about why JavaScript has so many fucking module types. So I did want to talk about that for a minute.

[00:11:36] Chuck: Okay. Um, well, because evolving is hard and agreeing upon standards are hard and nobody ever actually just gets there. Although

[00:11:46] Robbie: about it because like, I've been trying for the past two days. We have this really old thing at work. I'm not going to talk too much about it because people could probably find the product in the wild and like. Talk shit about it, [00:12:00] but it's got like broccoli 0. 0. 16, which is pretty old.

So I was like, let me update this. And so I did, and then I updated like the cascade of build things like Babel Uglify, you know, whatever. And I started getting those dreaded errors you get where it's like, define is not defined or whatever. And it's like, well, fuck, I know that's a module problem.

So I was like, well, let me make it not AMD. And then it was like, exports is not defined. So I'm like, okay, well, no matter what I do, the modules won't work. So I narrowed it down to like, it was actually BroccoliConcat that is doing it somehow. So something about like, just, concatenating the files together breaks it.

So I'll have to debug that more later. But it's frustrating that this is a problem. Like, I guess bun is solving this kind of, but

[00:12:53] Chuck: Yeah, Baban is only solving it for like the two primary winners in that, right? CommonJS and then going [00:13:00] into the ES modules or whatever, right? Like, MJS files, basically.

[00:13:05] Robbie: is not a modern and winner status

[00:13:09] Chuck: I don't think it's a winner. I don't have any particular beef against it, but I remember, gosh, 10 plus years ago, having to utilize when releasing things and you would, they have this thing that was a workaround for a while, like the UMD pattern, the universal module declaration pattern. That was your entry to figure out how you couldn't unfuck everything else.

So like, you know, I, I guess it's maybe better than that. I don't know.

[00:13:37] Robbie: Well, we're, we're doing weird stuff where we wrap it in that still, where it's like a function with require, export, like all the different possible things. And it checks if they exist and then like, Oh God.

[00:13:51] Chuck: Yeah, And,

[00:13:51] Robbie: but we're forcing that in instead of like transforming it to that, like you're supposed to, we're like wrapping it in a manual, like string of [00:14:00] JavaScript.

That's a function that has all that stuff. And I'm like, I don't get it. I don't understand.

[00:14:03] Chuck: Why do a bunch of idiots work at Amazon?

[00:14:06] Robbie: Well, to be fair, this was written like. Eight or nine years ago and has not been touched since. So a lot of weird things happened back then.

[00:14:16] Chuck: Yeah, totally, and it probably was, like, the best solution for the tools and, and the predictability that you had at that time. And then, you know, Node was at a certain version and whatever, you know, whatever you

[00:14:28] Robbie: dot 10 or

[00:14:28] Chuck: Right, exactly. And you're like, I don't know, figure this out.

[00:14:32] Robbie: Yeah. But yeah, I just wanted to vent about that and now we can not talk anything tech if you want to skip other stuff, but

[00:14:39] Chuck: You don't want to talk about Astro at all? Like, I've been playing

[00:14:41] Robbie: we could mention it.

[00:14:44] Chuck: But I have, yeah. A couple of different things, yeah. Well, I have, so I've been maintaining an archive of my wedding website, and it's like a plain HTML playground for me. So, like, it's in Astro now, and I go and play around with things on that.

And, [00:15:00] like, it's like a really easy, basic site to, like, Oh, I want to look at You know, this thing and how do you set it up when it's not a JS framework? You know, I just try to like default the things that aren't completely framework based to like test on first and then, you know, go from there. So yeah, you know, and just be like, how cool are just straight up normal web view transitions when it's just HTML page to HTML page with no CSS was there before, like, you know.

[00:15:31] Robbie: They're pretty dope.

[00:15:33] Chuck: They're pretty dope. They make, like, basic things look real slick. And I like that. You know, you can add a lot of, like, I don't know, nuance to, like, very basic designs and stuff. So that's pretty cool. Nice.

[00:15:48] Robbie: I don't know how recently it was because it just came on after I listened to the last episode of our podcast in the car. And, but it was about web apps versus websites and like how you decide, you know, [00:16:00] what are your steps to build it? How do you design it?

How do you decide what tools to use? Whatever. And a big point they had was like, you know, it's not in favor these days. But you can FTP, HTML and CSS up and it will run like you don't, they're like, you know, Oh, well, when I start, I think about, do I want react? And do I want a meta framework and like, whatever.

And like, you don't have to think about all that. If you just want to build a website. Just start in HTML and CSS. Like, I think the only thing, like only big, big reason I would want some kind of build tool is so that I can do two things. One, have Tailwind and like have that build and TreeShake and do all that stuff.

And then two be able to loop through stuff. So I can write like a block that's like, show an image and then show like ten images with that same snippet.

[00:16:49] Chuck: Yeah. That's basically why I like Astro. I use Astro on this site. There's, like, you know, it was all. manual listing of like an image [00:17:00] gallery and then a bunch of janky JS. Cause it was like a Squarespace site that I scraped and then pulled over. And like, over time I've just been simplifying and throwing GitHub pages.

And it's, like I said, it's more of an archive and I play around to like, how can I do this in the basic way? And Astro just gives me kind of like a, a build chain and lets me do some, you know, basic functional things like that, that, that aren't crazy. So. Yeah, I mean, the reality is, is all those old, this is what I've said.

This has been kind of a recurring theme for me as everything old is kind of new again, because it was never that bad to begin with. Right. Like, and I find it very interesting. It doesn't necessarily mean that I'm advocating for like dropping everything and going to those tools, but like, you know, you can build a.

A web application and a company on rails today. You can build a web application and a company on Django still today if you want

[00:17:55] Robbie: Mm hmm.

[00:17:56] Chuck: and you can, you don't need Kubernetes. You don't, [00:18:00] you know, like a lot of these things are solving problems that don't exist for a lot of people. And as Dax would say, you don't even have any users.

So who gives a shit anyway,

[00:18:11] Robbie: Heh heh heh heh. Yeah.

[00:18:12] Chuck: So, yeah. I mean, I personally, I never want to like, be in a company situation where I'm FTPing up and so did Joe and now they conflicted or he made changes and didn't pull down what I did before or something like that. Like, you know, that's not fun. Or, I pushed something up as a mistake and I fucked up and I lost it forever.

Like, all of those things, I've done those things and I don't like it.

[00:18:39] Robbie: Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah, before I knew what Git was I would just push stuff up. And yeah, if someone had messed with it when I hadn't, or before, like, I pushed mine or whatever, yeah, it would be like All the stuff's gone and you're like, oh no.

[00:18:55] Chuck: no,

[00:18:55] Robbie: And then you're just like, hey, I quit my job.

I'll see you later.

[00:18:58] Chuck: Yeah, you're like,


[00:18:59] Robbie: just [00:19:00] hate fixing like that or like get big get conflicts. I'm just like, I'd rather just not.

[00:19:05] Chuck: Yeah, I my first thing I, I used Subversion for a little while. And also I was in a company that used like, real Visual Studio. And so you had to check out, yeah, things using Visual Studio. Yeah,

[00:19:20] Robbie: Doing like. net and shit.

[00:19:21] Chuck: Yeah, yeah, but I was mostly just doing front end stuff within dot net templates and all of that.

So, you know, but still it was like, this is fun, but at least that was like nice because you knew like, Oh, this code right now is currently being worked on by this user. And she'd be like, Oh, cool. I need to look at that too. What, you know, you can, you can sneaker net at all around and that, that was better.

That was okay.

[00:19:48] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah. I have a hot take on that. I think. net Is, has the best DX of any back end [00:20:00] language

[00:20:00] Chuck: That

is a

[00:20:01] Robbie: framework or whatever you want to call it.

[00:20:03] Chuck: Yeah, because there's a couple of, like, actual web application frameworks, like, around NET, like, I know

[00:20:10] Robbie: Well, I haven't used things on top of NET, but like having used Java and C based languages before I used NET. NET was like very JavaScript y and like just refreshingly. Like easy to read and work with, and maybe that's because visual studio is so helpful too,

[00:20:32] Chuck: Yeah, yeah. I mean, their whole DX early days, you gotta admit, like, it was very thoughtful. See, I was working at it during the webforms days. And I know, I've heard lots of like, once they switched to MVC and stuff, it got way better in that sense. But yeah, I mean, if you think about it, like, they were way ahead of the curve in terms of tooling and stuff. So that is nice. So you heard it here, folks. Sponsored by Angular. Because Robby's [00:21:00] an Angular shill now. That's what I heard.

[00:21:03] Robbie: Yeah. I love angular.

[00:21:05] Chuck: The new stuff is good. Sarah did not send us any t shirts.

[00:21:10] Robbie: Ooh, that is true. I would rock an angular t shirt. I got my century t shirt. So

[00:21:17] Chuck: my Sentry, or Syntax, sorry. Not my Sentry, but I do have my Syntax Yeti cup, and I love it. It's pretty awesome.

[00:21:27] Robbie: yeah, I should

[00:21:28] Chuck: keeping me hydrated. Yeah, it's keeping me hydrated. It's really nice. It's, like And they priced it like, they're definitely taking a loss.

[00:21:38] Robbie: Oh, yeah, I think that's I think they're taking a loss on everything on purpose to like just to hype it up And I think like David was saying on Twitter like he wants to hire someone to like do logistics for everything like worldwide So they can get, like, better printers who are cheaper and, like, better shipping costs and, like, all the things.[00:22:00]

Like, thinking of the merch business as a real part of the business. Which, I guess it can be.

[00:22:05] Chuck: I mean, it doesn't have to be incredibly profitable, but it doesn't have to be a loss leader either, right? So, yeah. But there was like a podcast producer and some other podcast related things. Were you tempted?

[00:22:19] Robbie: I was I looked at the salaries and thought it was gonna be too much work for not being my only job. So,

[00:22:28] Chuck: You were like, can I do

this inside a house? Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[00:22:33] Robbie: but I need a little more money to pay for my house, unfortunately, if interest rates go down, I might be tempted to like, I would love to be part of their team because I think, like, they have amazing ideas.

And they could give me the ideas because I'm lacking the ideas, but I think I can execute things. Like we got all the gear, I can figure out how to like, you know, screen record or whatever. I haven't you. dipped into that yet of doing the like [00:23:00] twitch thing and all that just because like what the fuck do you say i guess you just have to not care about what you're saying and just spout off whatever is in your

[00:23:07] Chuck: Yeah, I think you just have to be talking a lot. Like, yeah, which I think I can handle. I just am not, like, someone who can multitask. Like, I can't talk and type and all that kind of stuff. Like, Prime is able to just, like, ba la la la la la la. Like, I cannot do that. I'm a terrible multitasker. So if I'm, like, oh, I'm focused on doing the thing.

Oh, look, let's walk through where we, oh, let's read some docs. Now we spun up a project, na na na na. Like, no, I'm going to be doing Most of that in my head, and it's gonna be silent and boring. So Yeah.

[00:23:40] Robbie: like have you seen his like peloton posts he'll be like new personal record and he'll show a picture of the The Peloton screen and it's like, your account has been cancelled like, you know, sign up here or whatever, but I guess if you don't have a subscription, you can still bike and it will tell you, like, your output,[00:24:00]

[00:24:00] Chuck: Yeah

[00:24:00] Robbie: output, but it has, like, nothing on cadence and, like, whatever,

[00:24:05] Chuck: Yeah, that's why I don't like their hardware. Because you're locked in, right? You're like, software locked into a subscription forever. Which I know is the point, but like Uh, we have Peloton Well, we have the Peloton, because we like My wife got the bike, and I can use it. And I just watch rowing workouts and then use my own rower, you know, and then it's got all kinds of other metrics.

I'm just like, I don't care. I'm not buying 2, 000 rower. I have a nice rower. It was 800 bucks and it'll probably last me the next like 20 years, so

[00:24:41] Robbie: yeah, that's fair, but yeah, he he'll do that and then, like, show a picture of himself and he'll be in, like, a long sleeved shirt and jeans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:49] Chuck: yeah,

[00:24:50] Robbie: why? Like, is, and does he actually do that or does he change into jeans real quick to like flex and have a silly photo? You know, I don't [00:25:00] know.

We'll ask him next time he's on. Yeah.

[00:25:05] Chuck: like, strength photos and be like, Afterwards, I did 400 burpees or something in 15 minutes, blah blah blah. And I'm like, oh, good for you, but did you do it in jeans? And like,

[00:25:15] Robbie: Yeah. I wonder if it's like a thing about doing everything in like the gear he would be wearing to like work his land or something. So it's like a farmer workout or I don't know.

[00:25:26] Chuck: I don't know, until I see, yeah, until I see overalls, that's all bullshit. Like, you know, that's for farm, right?

[00:25:33] Robbie: That is for farm.

[00:25:34] Chuck: Yep.

[00:25:36] Robbie: Yeah, so we didn't actually say anything about Astro other than you've been playing with it and whatever. Do we want to like, talk about it at all,

[00:25:44] Chuck: Well, I mentioned the view transitions and I just like it for a very, like, basic build pipeline for normal, even HTML sites. So it's just you know, a couple of those things have been fun to add to that particular site. But I was just, and then I was saying, like, [00:26:00] additionally, like, even if I was going to just build a plain HTML site, I would probably start with Astro, even if I didn't intend to have dynamic content or anything of that nature, because there's just some, like There's some sugar there that's easy and fun, yeah.

[00:26:15] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:26:15] Chuck: Tailwind. Yeah, and Tailwind's probably a big part of it because if I can drop and go and not think about half that stuff, super duper.

[00:26:23] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah, speaking of Tailwind, I have a new aspiration that anytime, like, I went to find our local fire department to, like, see if they were doing any, like, Christmas fundraisers or whatever, like, selling Christmas trees or doing a Santa thing or any of that.

And they didn't seem to have anything on their website, but also their website Was solid black with bright green text and like not mobile friendly.

And so I reached out to them I was like, hey do you want me to make this not bad? Because like I think like I'm gonna start doing more of that I'm not gonna put a lot of [00:27:00] work into it, but I'm gonna be like, you know I'll use a tailwind UI template and like hook it up to contentful or Prismic? Prisma?

I always get them confused. Which one is the CMS? Some kind of

[00:27:12] Chuck: Uh, Prisma is the ORM, the dbORM.

[00:27:14] Robbie: so Prismic, I guess, is

[00:27:16] Chuck: Yeah, that's one. There's, yeah, there's a few of them, but

[00:27:19] Robbie: Yeah, so like, you know, hook it up to something where they can edit it and just like, hands off. Like, it can't be worse than what you have now. So, you

[00:27:26] Chuck: Right. I mean, if they have WordPress, you can convert that to headless.

[00:27:33] Robbie: Yeah, but I

[00:27:35] Chuck: No, yeah,

[00:27:36] Robbie: It doesn't seem like something that they're actually able to update to me. It looks like it's static and they have a webmaster that occasionally. Changes something, if, if that,

[00:27:47] Chuck: If I was gonna say, well I guess you'll find out. I mean the plus side is that you can donate your time. And that is a tax deduction. So. Heh heh

[00:27:57] Robbie: million dollars per hour.

[00:27:59] Chuck: [00:28:00] heh. Turns out the government owes you a whole bunch for them firefighters.

[00:28:04] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:28:05] Chuck: Yeah, you better make them a tuna casserole too.

They'll be like, yep, Robbie's the best. We love him. Everybody you talk to has a rural accent, in my

[00:28:18] Robbie: up here, I don't, I don't think so

not, not so much.

[00:28:21] Chuck: I don't think so either, but still a little bit fun. I'm gonna do, I'm gonna actually start a second podcast where I just, I talk like this even though I'm a bit of a Yankee.

[00:28:31] Robbie: We could do the accents podcast

[00:28:33] Chuck: The Accents

[00:28:34] Robbie: pick a different accent each episode

[00:28:36] Chuck: 42 people will choose that as their number one podcast. In 2024. We'll see.

[00:28:44] Robbie: definitely, part of the problem is with getting listeners is the SEO game. Cause if you go into Spotify and search JavaScript. We're not like you got to scroll a while before you find one of our episodes Because we need to use the word javascript in the [00:29:00] titles more like We don't put enough SEO stuff in the titles.

We're like, we talked web development and career growth with whoever. And it's like, that's no one searching for that.

[00:29:10] Chuck: Eh, that's fair. Every, every other episode is Fuck God, JavaScript. I mean, JavaScript's cool. I mean, JavaScript's for losers.

[00:29:20] Robbie: The way that I know is because most like, aside from our like heavy hitter guests who had a lot of like listens the ones that have the most listens have Next. js in the title. people have searched for Next. js and been fooled into listening to this non Next. js

[00:29:38] Chuck: Right, exactly. Well listen, Triangle Company is trying to take over the world.

[00:29:43] Robbie: I

[00:29:43] Chuck: And it's, and it's interesting because, again, at the end of the day They're repurposing another product. I always feel like that's a risky move, but obviously they've been able to expand their product to do a lot of really cool [00:30:00] things.

No shade on that. Like the product is good. It works good. It it does have like some weird trap doors around the way they get some businesses Basically needing them and then the cliff for billing is like, Oh, it was a hundred bucks a month. Holy shit. Now you owe us 50 grand. Like,

[00:30:20] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:30:21] Chuck: heard stories around that.

[00:30:23] Robbie: their low tier is very generous though. So like, theoretically, I forget the exact numbers, but if you're exceeding like, the million database writes per month, then like, If you're not a profitable business, you're doing something wrong. Like, if you have that much activity, even if you just threw an ad on the page, like, you would have money.


[00:30:48] Chuck: you, yeah, I mean, that's true. I mean, that's true. Or you're just doing something very wrong. Like you said, like you are, you're persisting data for 10 users too, [00:31:00] too much, perhaps you're capturing too much, you're doing a bunch of events and you're not charging enough for it. I don't know. Yeah, I, I, I suppose that's fair, but then conversely, like what is the margin on that?

Like literally like, what is Amazon paying, like charging you for that same compute or operation. And then they put a nice UI on top and, and, you know,

[00:31:24] Robbie: Well, I do wonder if Vercel operates everything except for enterprise at a loss.

And they want you to hit that cliff and pay them a lot of money. So they want to make it very like low barrier to entry and just kind of offset costs a little with those monthly charges. And then if you actually become enterprise, then you get where they make the

[00:31:48] Chuck: Oh, for sure. I would, I would imagine like 20 percent of their customers are like 80 percent of their revenue or something crazy like that. Right?

[00:31:56] Robbie: It's probably even lower than that. Like 5 percent of their customers is like,[00:32:00]

[00:32:00] Chuck: Yeah, it could be.

[00:32:00] Robbie: yeah.

[00:32:02] Chuck: I mean, we're not smart enough to wear all black and Have our own conference and all of those things. So I'm sure there's a whole lot of nuance in between what we're saying and the reality and everything else. Like,

[00:32:15] Robbie: Well, would love to talk to Guillermo about it.

[00:32:19] Chuck: Do you think he still has that whiskey?

I don't. I drank it. But didn't we do it on an episode? A malarkey episode or something of that

[00:32:26] Robbie: We did it on one with just us. Yeah. I think, I think either he still has it or it's like at the office or like somebody has it and hopefully someone will drink it because otherwise it's an extra big waste of money but

[00:32:40] Chuck: So Okay, do you think we could send Jay on a reconnaissance mission next time he's at Mission Control and like,

[00:32:50] Robbie: we should start infiltrating a bunch of people that work there just get them to like us and just get them to casually mention like hey how come you haven't been on there like that's a cool podcast

[00:32:59] Chuck: [00:33:00] Yeah,

[00:33:01] Robbie: turns

[00:33:01] Chuck: I'm really busy.

[00:33:03] Robbie: yeah

[00:33:04] Chuck: they suck.

[00:33:06] Robbie: Yeah, it

[00:33:06] Chuck: should talk to me and I know

[00:33:08] Robbie: yeah, I don't know if it's like as simple as he didn't want to be associated with drinking in public or like

You know, it could be any like something totally like benign, but it could also be like He heard us shit on react sometime and like, you know, I don't know it

[00:33:27] Chuck: I mean, it could be. I feel like the simplest explanation is that, you know, he agreed and, and we caught on early and then his, his calendar exploded probably at some point because at this point you'd be like, yeah, I could get him on or dig up Steve Jobs, maybe like similar, similar complexity. Yeah. So, or, you know, not, yeah.

I don't know, I don't know exactly whom I would compare it to, but I mean, the company's grown a lot. There's a lot of busyness [00:34:00] there, so. And probably like, fun, silly podcasts are just less important than other media things. And that's the truth, but it is fun to like, dunk on, cause it's just, you know, whatever.

What do we spend a hundred bucks and give a shit talking to every once in a while? That's fine. We still use your service, so who really gives a shit?

[00:34:19] Robbie: Yeah. In fact, we're going to switch most of our stuff to Vercel because it's easy.

[00:34:24] Chuck: Yeah, as soon as you figure out forms.

[00:34:27] Robbie: Well, we don't really need them. And like,

[00:34:31] Chuck: That's true too though.

[00:34:32] Robbie: I think you can post directly to like a web hook for slack or something. Like

[00:34:38] Chuck: That's true. Yeah, you know.

[00:34:41] Robbie: You would maybe lose some. Like Spam like Netlify has a their built in form thing has some kind of like bot control a little bit where it like Tries to be smart about you're definitely a bot.

I won't send this through Even though it does a bad job at that and still send stuff through but like yeah I [00:35:00] we could post right to a webhook and then if it gets insane just turn it off

[00:35:03] Chuck: Yep. That's fair. So. Yeah, because the, our podcast site is already there. And so. We just need a few other things bounced over.

[00:35:16] Robbie: Yep,

[00:35:17] Chuck: Bounce. That's a bot joke. Anyway. What else you got for me?

[00:35:24] Robbie: Yeah, so I don't know if we want to talk about shows we've been watching or skip that and Talk about some of these other things at the bottom Dealers choice. What do you what do you feel like from this list here

[00:35:36] Chuck: Yeah, I could talk a couple, a little bit about shows or a little bit about entertainment as a whole. A couple of things you have here I've

[00:35:44] Robbie: what have you been getting into?

[00:35:45] Chuck: heard of. Well we finished up a documentary last night that was a little, like, concerning about the American healthcare system and parents being accused of abuse by bringing their children with, [00:36:00] like, strange, not easily diagnosable Issues.

And in Florida in particular, it was like a big thing. Because this one lady would just be like, Oh, some bruises and complaints of pain and we can't find anything offhand. Seems phantom and the parents are to blame and you all, you both go to prison. And then, a bunch of great It's called Take Care of Maya, I believe it was.

And that was like, disturbing. On a lighter note, let's see, I watched the new Mike Birbiglia Netflix special, which is like the old man in the pool. If you like Mike Birbiglia. It's funny. It does feel a little bit like he's a parody of himself in some ways. Like it's like Jim Gaffigan where he's got to kind of talk about hot pockets or something like this, you know, for big, Leah has his own, own version of that, but his storytelling is great.

And, you know, there's like some sentimental aspects there. So there was that, and I feel like there was a show. Recently, but as most of our listeners [00:37:00] know, I killed my brain cells, so. Oh, I'm going to see the 20th anniversary re release of Elf in theaters in a couple of weeks. So that'll be kind of fun.

It's like five bucks at a Regal Cinemas and And we're like, oh, we've watched it with the kids before, it'll be fun on the big screen.

[00:37:17] Robbie: Nice. Yeah, I remember reading, I forget the number. I want to say it was like some insane amount of money, like 10 million or something that they offered Will Ferrell to do Elf 2 and he said no. Like, okay.

[00:37:32] Chuck: It turned out, it turns out he's, he's probably doing fine on money, it would seem, overall, you


[00:37:39] Robbie: he probably has more than a couple dollars, yeah.

[00:37:42] Chuck: Yeah, although I mean like Anchorman 2 was a little, he said yes to that, so maybe it was like in or around that and he was like, ooh, I've been down this road, and it doesn't always work out well. Yeah.

[00:37:55] Robbie: of his newer stuff has not been the best. With the [00:38:00] exception of I liked is it called Spirited that has Ryan Reynolds in him in it? I know you didn't like it.

[00:38:06] Chuck: We didn't like it. We didn't love it,

[00:38:07] Robbie: but it has Ryan Reynolds and

[00:38:09] Chuck: and you do love yourself or Ryan Reynolds,

[00:38:11] Robbie: I do. I

[00:38:12] Chuck: Yeah, you would.

[00:38:14] Robbie: I'm excited that Deadpool 3 is coming out

[00:38:17] Chuck: for sure. And there's gonna be a Marvel Universe actual crossover with it, right? Like there's,

[00:38:23] Robbie: Oh, they like, actually got accepted into like, being real now.

[00:38:27] Chuck: I think so. I feel like there is, I mean, I know the Hugh Jackman's in it and he's, he's

on the Sony side. Sony side, but that's okay.

[00:38:35] Robbie: Yeah, I forgot about that where like, that little trailer where he's like, talking to him on the phone or something and he's like, Fine, I'll be in Deadpool 3 or

[00:38:45] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:46] Robbie: Like, yeah.

[00:38:47] Chuck: Yeah, they're really great and funny about that. And I find, I follow Rob McElhaney too. They always do really funny stuff to each other on their birthdays. Oh man, it's great.

[00:38:59] Robbie: Yeah, I'm just going to [00:39:00] keep mentioning Ryan Reynolds. We need to get our Ryan Reynolds count above our Tailwind count. Get that SEO game going. Get Ryan to come on. You know, he's not busy at all. He doesn't own like every company that exists, or every football team, or like, anything that takes any amount of time.

[00:39:17] Chuck: So you've watched the new season of Welcome to Wrexham? I

[00:39:20] Robbie: I haven't watched any of them because I've been working my way through Every show on Apple TV plus

[00:39:27] Chuck: Hmm.

[00:39:28] Robbie: absurd But they're all pretty good. And that's what my list here. I don't know which ones you haven't heard of I think let me see. No, all of these weren't apple tv

[00:39:36] Chuck: No, The Last of Us is definitely

not Apple TV. That was, that's on Macs now, by the way. Well, don't confuse it, it's now Macs. So you have to update your app every three months, and re sign in, and do

[00:39:47] Robbie: Yeah, that was the dumbest move. HBO, it's like the same thing as renaming Twitter to X. Like, you have this brand loyalty, and then you're just like, You know what? I'm gonna make it this thing that's really hard to Google that's [00:40:00] just a word or a letter.

[00:40:01] Chuck: Let's choose the inferior product, right? Because I, I feel like that's a it has something to do with Cinemax, which I don't think that's anymore a thing, but like, that was always the cable channel that like people would make jokes about like, Oh, after 10 o'clock it's Skinamax because they would do like soft core porn, right?

So they choose max, max, what max boners? Like, what do you get? I don't know. So,

[00:40:26] Robbie: Max Entertainment of all kinds.

[00:40:28] Chuck: Yeah, Maximum. I, I know it's easy to Google. Max. Max


[00:40:34] Robbie: other results for Max

[00:40:35] Chuck: Yeah, it's all stupid. People making these decisions haven't, have no knowledge of the internets.

Which is gonna

[00:40:42] Robbie: any of these shows on

[00:40:44] Chuck: I've watched The Last of Us. I know what Silo is. I can't recall the three others that you mentioned.

[00:40:51] Robbie: Yeah, so Silo was really good. Probably one of the best shows I've watched in a long time. Would recommend for sure. [00:41:00] Excited for the next couple seasons. I think they've already renewed it for two more seasons. I think there was I think there were like three or four books or something. So I think they're going to make each book into a season.

Yeah, super interesting show. The whole premise is like, they're just in this like silo thing and they don't know why.

[00:41:16] Chuck: Yeah,

[00:41:16] Robbie: like, why can't we go outside? It's like, I don't know, like the people that came before us knew, but like all of our history was destroyed or whatever. And so we just don't know like why we can't go outside.

So, you know, lots of drama around that and like. One of the rules they have, this, I don't, this isn't really a spoiler cause they don't tell you why, but like one of the rules they have is they can't install elevators. So they have to, it's like this really tall silo and they have to walk the whole thing every time.

And it's like, why is that? Or I don't know why that's a rule, but yeah, it's, it's a really cool show would recommend the changeling is really fucking weird. It's like. You think it's gonna be like, about like this baby dying and stuff, [00:42:00] and like, I know that you're out for that, but like,

[00:42:02] Chuck: I feel like that's what I saw. Is it the Shalomon one or something? Or,

[00:42:07] Robbie: no, that one, I, I watched that one too. That was a servant. that one was really good. Yeah. But this one is like, um. Less, less fucked up than you would think if you give it a chance, like,

[00:42:23] Chuck: And, and I,

[00:42:24] Robbie: faith in the first couple episodes.

[00:42:25] Chuck: and I will admit the further I get away from infants, you know, and my fears around that, like, it probably gets more tolerable for me. I mean, you know, nobody's jazzed about, like, kids getting hurt, but I mean, like, it was just a years long scar of nothing even happened. Nothing even happened, but just having infants and having this

[00:42:49] Robbie: yeah, just worrying about SIDS for like, years. It's

[00:42:52] Chuck: For basically, yeah. A solid year and a half, easily. And then, it was like, okay, but it's still too fresh. I just can't watch [00:43:00] that.

[00:43:00] Robbie: Yeah, I get it. But yeah, the Changeling is like, it's very fairytale based and it's like, Like, there's no rules. Like, anything can happen. Totally ridiculous. Would, would recommend if you like, like stuff with lots of twists and, it's, it's a little dark still. And nothing was explained at all. They said they're gonna explain things next season.

But, we'll see if they actually do. Yeah. Last of Us, obviously, was good. We watched that. Wednesday was surprisingly good. I didn't really expect much out of that.

[00:43:32] Chuck: Yes, I did actually watch a few episodes of this like last winter up in, we were in Flagstaff for some like Christmas thing and we did like a long weekend with another family to do it and somehow or another like kids started it on Netflix when it first came out and watched a couple. I wouldn't say it's like appropriate for small kids, but like it was

interesting. I forgot about that. I would actually come back to that because I thought, Oh, this is interesting. And Christina [00:44:00] Ricci is in it. Not as Wednesday. Thought that was cool.

[00:44:04] Robbie: Yeah, it's I think you're right, it's like, it's kind of a adolescent show. Like, it's a little bit edgy, it's like,

[00:44:12] Chuck: Young teens kind of thing.

[00:44:14] Robbie: polished enough to be like, a super, like, And I'm saying this, but they probably won a bunch of awards anyway. But I'm saying it's not like a Grammy, or or Grammy's the wrong word.

What the fu what the fuck does a Netflix show

[00:44:26] Chuck: Em

uh, no. Emmys. Emmys. Oscars are movies. Emmys are TV shows, I believe,

[00:44:31] Robbie: Okay. Alright, so Emmys. So it's not like I wouldn't say it's at that level, but I think they probably won a bunch of them. Like, I think it's a little unpolished and cringey and like More towards adolescent style of like you wouldn't notice that if you were like a teenager But I noticed that it's like not the best

[00:44:49] Chuck: It's almost like Harry Potter like, but a TV show instead.

[00:44:52] Robbie: yeah Yeah, I think a little more cringy than Harry Potter,

but I'm still very entertaining really enjoyed it [00:45:00] would recommend I just started Blackbird last one and then we'll go to some other topic here. It's about have you seen anything about it?

[00:45:09] Chuck: I mean, not offhand, obviously the Beatles song is top of mind, or, you know,

[00:45:14] Robbie: It's about this guy that he like gets arrested and goes to jail and to get out early they have him go like try to find locations of bodies from this like serial killer guy, like befriend him and like get him to let his guard down and like give them that info. I'm only a couple episodes in but it's like, it's just about him like trying to do that and it's, it's very interesting cause it's like.

You know, him surviving life in this like, cause he was in like a cushy, like, easy prison where you can like, you know, just ride your time out and now he's in like super, like, criminally insane, like, scared for his life everyday, people are dying all over the place like, kind of prison so, it's gotten pretty intense but I don't know if it's gonna [00:46:00] have a good ending or not.

We'll see.

[00:46:03] Chuck: Well, there you go. They've got you hooked, at least for now. I wanna know, my real question is, if you don't know what they are, how are you ever gonna get your EGOT?

[00:46:15] Robbie: Well, I'm never, I'm definitely never gonna get any of that. If anything, I could potentially, like, if I stopped caring about money and put a ton of time into music, I could make some music that would, like, potentially be award worthy. But then, no way can I, like, I can't do acting, like, maybe with tons of training, like, but I would never do, like, plays.

That sounds like too much work, having to go every day and, like, cater to an audience and no.

[00:46:44] Chuck: the misnomer is that you have to be a star, but you gotta bear in mind for things like, even just the Oscars, right? You're familiar with that. And there's like, costume design, and sound design, and

[00:46:53] Robbie: well, true,

[00:46:54] Chuck: there's a whole bunch of ways where you could thread that

[00:46:58] Robbie: just like,

[00:46:58] Chuck: The Webbys.

[00:46:59] Robbie: of their [00:47:00] name right now. The, the rap group that, that won an Oscar for like their soundtrack or whatever, and they always start their songs with like Academy Award winner. You know what I'm talking about? I don't.

[00:47:10] Chuck: have no idea.

[00:47:12] Robbie: I don't know, it doesn't matter.

People are gonna be like, you should know that, but who cares? The 83 of you that listen to this can can educate me.

[00:47:19] Chuck: Yeah, on Twitter. I mean, X.

[00:47:25] Robbie: Anyway What are you doing for Christmas?

[00:47:29] Chuck: Great question. Let's see here. Hosting Christmas as usual. So, you know, preparing for that. Have folks at our place, where for, no I guess it won't be. My mother will be moving back to Kentucky, so it will be her last Arizona Christmas. That'll be interesting. Yeah. Otherwise, business as usual. Hmm.

[00:47:57] Robbie: and we'll be hosting for Christmas as [00:48:00] well. Gonna be Finn's first, like, big, exciting, knows what's happening Christmas, so. Definitely wanted to make sure we were home for that and could do everything right.

[00:48:10] Chuck: For sure.

[00:48:11] Robbie: yeah. So it's going to be interesting though, cause like, we have several people that will be visiting that potentially Odie doesn't like.

So like, I don't know how that's going to work. We'll give him lots of meds. We'll like, I ordered some hands free leashes. So I can like strap him to my body and he can never get further than a leash away from me.

[00:48:29] Chuck: Right, yes, yes, those, those seem kind of fun. I mean, those are usually like people are running, and then they have the leash around their waist, like that kind of stuff.

[00:48:38] Robbie: Yeah, well I'll still be running in the other direction just to keep him going that way.

[00:48:42] Chuck: Hmm. I mean Yeah, how old's that dog?

[00:48:47] Robbie: He turned seven a couple days ago, so

[00:48:50] Chuck: got some, he's got some years left.

[00:48:52] Robbie: Yeah, so he's either got, you know, three or four years left, or if we're unlucky, you know, twenty. [00:49:00] Like

[00:49:02] Chuck: he hates you.

[00:49:03] Robbie: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, we were talking about earlier. I was they went to the vet and he did okay.

So he's okay if we're not around. So I can give him to, like, the vet. What do you call the, like, nurse at a vet? I don't know. We'll say nurse.

[00:49:19] Chuck: Vet practitioner.

[00:49:21] Robbie: yeah. Gave him to her and he, he was like, Not wanting to walk in with her and so I walked a little bit with him and he was walking and then he just like Puts the brakes on she's like, I'm just gonna pick you up and I was like, oh my god My life is flashing before my eyes.

You're gonna try to pick him up like and She picked him up and it was fine. And like I thought for sure she would have no arm after that. But Yeah, so that was that was interesting but yeah, he's he's good if we're not there so it's it's really frustrating Because like if we did Christmas like not at home And we weren't there, which would defeat the purpose if we weren't there.

He would be fine. If it's not his house, and we're [00:50:00] not there, he doesn't defend it. And

[00:50:01] Chuck: Let's pro, let me propose something. How about a Christmas where he's not there?

[00:50:07] Robbie: Well, so we're doing some of that where my parents have a Christmas party every year, and Caitlin's parents are gonna come down and stay with the dogs, and we're gonna go to that Christmas party for the weekend. And like, not have to worry about him.

[00:50:19] Chuck: It's a strange thing where it's harder to deal with your dogs than it is your people.

[00:50:27] Robbie: Yeah. It's a, I feel like it's a Like, it's a thing that very few people have a problem with, but like, you'd be surprised how many people probably have the same problem, and you just don't know, because like, no one talks about like, hey, I can't do anything because my dog will kill you, like,

[00:50:47] Chuck: Is this have we done wrong by dogs by over I don't know, personifying them or something? I don't know. I

[00:50:55] Robbie: them seem too safe.

[00:50:57] Chuck: Too safe, too happy, too easy, [00:51:00] too people like, personifying them in some ways, you know, like people, some people like treat their dog, and I'm not saying, I'm not casting that you're doing this, maybe you are, maybe you didn't, I don't know, but like, It used to be like, oh, we have a dog, here's his dog house outside, we, you know, go hang out and play with him, we give them food, you know, I don't know what changed.

[00:51:25] Robbie: Yeah, I think the problem that we ran into. Is, so Odie was our first dog, and we read all the stuff about how to do it right. It's like, you know, put him in the cage, he will not like it, which is fine, but then like, after a couple hours, he'll, he'll stop. Like, they'll, they eventually, like, chill. And, so I tried twice, and both times He barked for like four hours straight, like way more than all the guidelines online said.

So I was like, fuck it, you can just come out and like, like, he is too [00:52:00] stubborn to be trainable. So it's like, we then did everything wrong, which made him think, oh, I need to be with you all the time, which then at some point turned into while I'm with you, I'm defending you, which I don't know why he doesn't think we can defend ourselves.

Like, I tell him all the time, but he doesn't understand English. So,

[00:52:18] Chuck: out he's a dog. So what it sounds like is that a bear should have eaten this dog. Right? In an evolutionary sense. Without you, bear food.

[00:52:28] Robbie: Well, all French Bulldogs would not exist without humans. Because they can't be born naturally. They're all C sections. So,

[00:52:36] Chuck: Wow.

[00:52:37] Robbie: Yeah, their heads are too big to come out.

[00:52:40] Chuck: That is interesting. Huh.

[00:52:42] Robbie: So, that's why they're so expensive. They're like the number one dog in America right now. I'm sure there's a lot of people that have the same problem we have because they have tiny heads, fucked up like, you know, interbred shit from keeping them tiny.

Like, yeah. [00:53:00] So we're definitely never getting a Frenchie again. But we're gonna ride it out and hopefully not have to put him down or anything

[00:53:08] Chuck: Yeah, meet your responsibilities, like, I respect that for sure. Yeah, I think I saw that, we watched the Thanksgiving Day Parade. So we did like a turkey trot Thanksgiving Day Parade, like watched it on TV, and then the Westminster is after.

[00:53:24] Robbie: Yeah. I love the

[00:53:25] Chuck: that. Yeah.

the dog show's just fun. I mean, I like dogs, I just want to have, I

want to

[00:53:30] Robbie: want to breathe

[00:53:32] Chuck: I want to breathe. I have that problem, the allergy issue and everything else. And I want to be free, but like, I really like Big Dog. Yeah, and all that kind of stuff. And move to Italy, which is still, this is a big plan of ours that is like, probably about a year and a half away, but is taking its next steps, so.

Um, I think it's, I think it's gonna happen. I mean, we're pushing for it to happen. There's kind of no reason why it won't happen. [00:54:00] So I'll say it's happening

[00:54:01] Robbie: are cheap.

[00:54:03] Chuck: houses are much cheaper. Living is relatively like a real estate is way more affordable. There's a bivy of options and all of that. So there's that infrastructure has gotten better.

We have friends there. So language barriers are not inexistent, but minimized

[00:54:20] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin and I were talking about like, I don't know if you know the specifics or like how hard you've been looking at real estate, but like. I feel like, you know, we're, say, 15 minutes from Reston, and I feel like if you were, like, 15 minutes from Florence, or like, I don't know, a city in Italy, I feel like it would be exponentially less expensive than it would be here, which doesn't really make any sense, like, I guess there's, like, maybe, I don't know, more, like, Stuff in the way that there's like fast food and shit here, like things that will deliver to you, like amenities, whatever, then like In [00:55:00] Florence there's a lot of like cultural stuff, and like stuff that's not as like, hands on, give me, give me right now, but like Still, I feel like being 15 minutes from Florence would be fucking amazing, be like out in the countryside growing Grapes and wine,

[00:55:14] Chuck: Olives or anything, you know, whatever.

[00:55:16] Robbie: yeah.

Yeah, like, I don't know. I, I really love the appeal of that. I just like, the only reason we can never go is because all of our family is like right here. So, yeah, we're, we're hoping like, one day, if we have another kid and they both don't live in the same place to where we don't, aren't tied to one place, we'll be like, well, we're gonna move to Italy and you can visit us

[00:55:38] Chuck: Yeah,

[00:55:38] Robbie: You know.

[00:55:39] Chuck: Well, you can always come visit and see what the trade offs are. I mean, yes, we made our initial move for family purposes, and then we found that, like,

[00:55:50] Robbie: Wasn't worth it.

[00:55:51] Chuck: It's just not all the same that we expected it to be. And every family situation I'm sure is different. So I don't want to be prescriptive in that way.

But we just found like, [00:56:00] okay, we and I take a lot of responsibility for that. I think that like, there were some expectations that just didn't go the way that I thought they would because I just thought like this is obvious. You don't have to have that conversation. You have to have that conversation. And and that's okay.

And like people have to live their lives for themselves. And so ultimately we're like, well, great. We have some dreams that we would like to meet what's stopping us. And, you know, the cons are just very minimal.

[00:56:34] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think until kids are like, I don't know, older middle school,

[00:56:41] Chuck: Middle school, I think is where it starts to get harder. That's where we're trying to beat is like, let's get ahead of


[00:56:47] Robbie: Everything like, before you're, you know, basically a man from puberty is like, easily you can bounce around and make friends and whatever, but then you kind of get set with like your crew and it's like, it's hard to [00:57:00] move then.

[00:57:00] Chuck: You're devastated. Yeah.

[00:57:04] Robbie: years when I was a kid, and then like, I think it was like fourth or fifth grade, like, not even quite middle school yet, but I was like, I was this size then, like I was an adult. So I was like, hey, I'm not not gonna move if you guys move again in like two years like you've been doing and So like my dad had an offer and he went no I can't I can't do it cuz like I can't move but then he did Like take an offer later and he just moved on his own.

We just visited him.

[00:57:34] Chuck: Right. Right. I mean, there you go. There's a lot of different like shapes to that model. Yeah. I mean, moving overseas, obviously like, you

[00:57:44] Robbie: Yeah, the flights are long which okay. I don't know if we talked about this Or if I've just bitched to everyone else about this, but like I wanted to upgrade to first class flying to California because I usually do

[00:57:57] Chuck: Mm hmm.

[00:57:58] Robbie: and it was [00:58:00] 2, 500 per way To upgrade so like an extra five grand we booked our italy flights which are non stop from dullest to italy to rome.

And it's three grand round trip per person for that What the fuck like and their lay down seats like

[00:58:21] Chuck: Oh, yeah, international flights better. I would say domestic flights are a grift or I don't know or there's something we don't know, but you can often choose to go cross country or even like, you know, two three hour flight and find that to be five six hundred dollar flight and then also Find a flight to Milan or Paris or London or whatever for a similar price like just in general like not even talking about first Class or whatever else if you up your class I mean first class domestic versus first like business class international.

It's night and day It's not

[00:58:59] Robbie: [00:59:00] Yeah. Oh, yeah

[00:59:01] Chuck: full lay down you get pajamas you get like a little pod to yourself It's incredible


[00:59:08] Robbie: and I don't even need that necessarily like I did it because we wanted to do it because it sounded fun, but like The what I guess like premium economy in like international is still, it's basically first class of like

[00:59:23] Chuck: Yeah, Yeah, domestic first class is premium economy, I would say. It's like, wider seats and still some pretty nice stuff. Yeah.

[00:59:31] Robbie: food, all the, yeah. Everything.

[00:59:34] Chuck: I mean, I think that they make a good chunk of their money on On domestic, like in general, because prices have gone up across the board and, you know, a one hour flight and a three hour flight, like, doesn't matter.

It's kind of like similar price point. Yeah. And then like what were thought to be like low cost airlines back in the day, like Southwest. Or not anymore. It's not uncommon for me to see [01:00:00] 300 per way in Southwest, where I don't even know where I'm fucking sitting. And I don't care what jokes you make on the, you know, when takeoff and landing, it's like, it's crazy.

[01:00:11] Robbie: It has gotten out of hand. One of my coworkers was talking about like. It's so expensive to fly his family of four to like, even like Myrtle Beach. So he's like, well, I'm just going to fly to Spain and spend the bulk of my money on the flight, but then have a fucking baller time on a real beach

[01:00:28] Chuck: Mhmm.

[01:00:28] Robbie: like Myrtle

[01:00:29] Chuck: Instead of fucking Florida.

[01:00:31] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

[01:00:33] Chuck: Yeah. It's, it's pretty crazy, so, and bear in mind, we bailed out Yeah. a good chunk of these airlines. We didn't bail out

[01:00:42] Robbie: And then they gave all the money to the executives.

[01:00:44] Chuck: Yeah, where they did buybacks and everything else because they have fiduciary responsibility that this whole like fallback to fiduciary responsibility is horseshit.

[01:00:56] Robbie: Yeah. I just want to be rich enough. [01:01:00] To be able to do that. Be like, oh no, I lost my billion dollars. Now you have to give me another billion dollars and I'll take half of it and then we'll put the other half in the business.

[01:01:09] Chuck: Because we're an infrastructure for the nation. And you're like, well, yeah, you are, but then you become, you know, owned by the nation, I guess. Well, no,

[01:01:17] Robbie: should be out of business and American Airlines takes on a new meaning. Like, yeah.

[01:01:24] Chuck: or we believe in capitalism and you ran your business poorly and so you go away and someone fills the void. Like, I don't understand what the problem is.

[01:01:33] Robbie: no one saves small businesses.

[01:01:35] Chuck: Yeah, why do we need a General Motors or an American Airlines or like, you know, if they don't know how to run their business without getting fuel, oh, yeah, because they get to pay off politicians to get that, that's why.

[01:01:49] Robbie: That's

[01:01:49] Chuck: nothing, none of it is for the

[01:01:51] Robbie: with enough money. You can do whatever you want.

[01:01:53] Chuck: Yeah, yeah. Ha ha

[01:01:56] Robbie: Okay, well that's a good note to

[01:01:57] Chuck: ha.[01:02:00]

[01:02:00] Robbie: thanks.

[01:02:01] Chuck: matter, AI is gonna kill us in a couple of months or so, I'm

[01:02:04] Robbie: That is true, we can dive into that on the next Monthly Malarkey, which will be in January. Well I guess we'll do a, we'll do more of just us too, cause we're trying to Oh, alright, Uber Eats is calling me, hold on, I gotta go. Thanks for listening, thanks subscribe, blah blah blah, see you later bye.