RobbieTheWagner 
Charles William Carpenter III 
Dan Blumberg [00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week’s JS Party. Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. With your hosts, Robbie the Wagner, and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That’s right Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development.
[00:00:27] Intro: I mean, it’s all in the name. It’s not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set.
[00:00:36] Robbie Wagner: What’s up everybody. This is a whiskey web and whatnot. we are your hosts. This is Robbie, the Wagner and Charles William Carpenter, the third.
[00:00:45] Chuck Carpenter: Tis I, not the other, not the other much older gentleman that maybe you saw last week. I’ve got improved lighting. I was complaining about the bags under my eyes before, so if you joined the stream before, yes, I have creams and, [00:01:00] uh, if you moisturize, it goes really far.
[00:01:03] Robbie Wagner: nice. All right. We have a special guest with us, Dan Blumberg. What’s going on, Dan?
[00:01:09] Dan Blumberg: How are you?
[00:01:10] Robbie Wagner: Good. Good. How are
[00:01:11] Robbie Wagner: you?
[00:01:11] Dan Blumberg: I’m good. I’m good. This is, this is something different for me. This will be fun.
[00:01:16] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Hopefully.
[00:01:18] Robbie Wagner: would you like to give a few sentences about who you are and what you
[00:01:21] Robbie Wagner: do? Yeah, sure. I’m Dan Blumberg. I am a, a radio person who got into product and now I host a podcast about the radio. Product and building great products. I host a podcast called crafted. Long before that I was a radio producer and host at WNYC and then I kind of caught the startup bug and Became a product person at the new york times and linkedin and more recently i’ve consulted to different startups and banks and etc and Kind of, sort of by luck and happenstance, I launched a podcast called Crafted about two years ago.
[00:01:51] Dan Blumberg: And now that’s most of what I do is host that show and interview lots of founders and people who make great software.
[00:01:57] Chuck Carpenter: Excellent. Uh, you forgot to [00:02:00] mention your kayaking, your kayak
[00:02:02] Dan Blumberg: This, this is true. I do. I also moonlight as a kayak guide on the weekends. I live about 50 miles north of New York City, right on the Hudson River and I guide kayak trips on the weekend. So if you, if you’re in the area, maybe not now, cause it’s November, although it was 70 degrees earlier this week.
[00:02:17] Dan Blumberg: So maybe, yeah, come out in the dry suit with me. We’ll, we’ll go paddle this, this winter. If not, hit me up in May and I’ll, I’ll take you on the water. Okay.
[00:02:26] Chuck Carpenter: Good to know.
[00:02:27] Robbie Wagner: something you can
[00:02:28] Robbie Wagner: bring with you to help in the outdoors is whiskey. We’ve got a super blurry picture here. Hold on. There we go. Do you want to tell us about the whiskey, Chuck?
[00:02:39] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Wrote a song about it. Here it goes. , this is the Woodinville Straight Bourbon Whiskey. It’s finished in port barrels. , it’s aged five years and then finished in those port barrels for an additional six months. This one here looks to be 90 proof. Good to know. And has a mash bill of 72 percent corn, 22 percent rye, [00:03:00] and 6 percent barley.
[00:03:02] Chuck Carpenter: So, not bad.
[00:03:03] Robbie Wagner: All right.
[00:03:04] Chuck Carpenter: Very high corn might be a little sweet with the port, who knows.
[00:03:08] Chuck Carpenter: Alright, so you gotta fill the glass, Dan. That’s how it works. And, uh
[00:03:13] Dan Blumberg: I got a big
[00:03:13] Robbie Wagner: Or drink straight from the bottle.
[00:03:15] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, yeah, just chug it right
[00:03:17] Dan Blumberg: I love, I love, by the way, that you found a way to, uh, make whiskey an expensible item. That’s, that’s well, well
[00:03:22] Robbie Wagner: you got that.
[00:03:23] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Yeah, as I say, you’re on to us. It took three years and somebody finally caught on.
[00:03:28] Dan Blumberg: splurge on the good stuff.
[00:03:32] Chuck Carpenter: that’s right. Well, hopefully. I haven’t tried this one yet. Don’t get ahead of yourself
[00:03:37] Dan Blumberg: Yeah.
[00:03:37] Chuck Carpenter: Definitely has a very sweet, like, Hmm, okay. Hmm, I’m not getting
[00:03:46] Robbie Wagner: Just me?
[00:03:47] Chuck Carpenter: Thanks. Yeah, I think just you. It’s kind
[00:03:50] Robbie Wagner: it was the bushel of pears that I just ate. No, I’m just
[00:03:53] Chuck Carpenter: I get a little, like, grape Kool Aid on the nose. So,
[00:03:58] Robbie Wagner: Hmm.
[00:03:58] Chuck Carpenter: don’t know. I’m gonna get in there, prime it [00:04:00] up.
[00:04:00] Chuck Carpenter: Definitely doesn’t have that flavor.
[00:04:03] Robbie Wagner: No.
[00:04:04] Chuck Carpenter: me. No. I’m not sure I’m picking up any pears either. Are there any particular kinds of pears? We like to get real nuanced with this, Dan.
[00:04:11] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know that I’ve had enough different kinds of pears to be that specific, but It’s got some harshness to it.
[00:04:19] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, the finish is a little, a little prickly, I would say. There’s definitely some burn, some spice there. It starts out very sweet and has like a light kind of cola like flavor for me, a little bit. And then gets kind of fruity and then boom, knocks me with some of that spice. It kind of threw me off for a second.
[00:04:38] Chuck Carpenter: It’s interesting. I don’t know. We’ve had a few of these that have been, , aged and Like port barrels. I don’t know if this one, yeah, I guess it is port casks. For some reason I was thinking that they used staves and put those in, so yeah, they just get used port barrels and then they’ll do a finishing process.
[00:04:55] Chuck Carpenter: So that’s that last six months.
[00:04:58] Dan Blumberg: I didn’t know there was whiskey coming out of [00:05:00] Washington State, but, uh, here we are.
[00:05:02] Chuck Carpenter: And then alas, here we are. It, yeah, that’s a great point out. It says, uh, distilled, bottled and aged, Washington state. So. Interesting one.
[00:05:13] Chuck Carpenter: Alright, so, we have a highly technical and advanced rating system. So I’ll do my best to explain it to you. It is from 0 to 8 tentacles. 0 being terrible, , never want to have this again.
[00:05:26] Chuck Carpenter: Probably would have spit it out if you were there, though. , 4 is kind of like, eh, it’s fine, middle of the road. 8 is, this is amazing, clear the shelves, I will drink nothing else. Robbie and I often like, separate, , whiskey, , styles just because we’ve had so many. But feel free to do whatever works for you, be it all whiskeys together, alcohol, whatever else in that vein.
[00:05:49] Chuck Carpenter: And Robbie will show you how it’s done. So he’ll go first.
[00:05:53] Robbie Wagner: All right. , yeah, for being finished in port barrels and being not super young, I guess five years [00:06:00] isn’t that old, but I don’t know, it feels very harsh to me. I was expecting it to be sweeter and more mellow and it’s not, not necessarily in a bad way, but there is some like weird thing that’s punching me in the mouth that I don’t love.
[00:06:13] Robbie Wagner: So in terms of like other bourbons, I would give this I think a four it’s kind of middle of the road for me
[00:06:19] Chuck Carpenter: Hmm. Do you feel up to it, Dan?
[00:06:22] Dan Blumberg: Am I up? Alright. as far as whiskeys go that I’ve had live on a podcast, this is definitely an eight. but if you want me to be a little less specific, I’m not typically a bourbon guy, so I’m, I do a little more Scottish stuff typically, so I don’t, I don’t have a great, Comparison set here, but I’d say it’s it’s you know, it’s it’s somewhere in the middle. I’ll give it a five I’ll go I’ll go I’ll go I’ll go one over Robby because I don’t have the palate yet on
[00:06:49] Chuck Carpenter: You’re right. I had nothing wrong with that. That’s funny. It was this close to sending you Japanese whiskey. , I just couldn’t
[00:06:56] Chuck Carpenter: find the particular
[00:06:57] Robbie Wagner: choice
[00:06:58] Chuck Carpenter: Well, you know, [00:07:00] now, in retrospect, , well, you know, that’s okay. We’re expanding your palette. So, that would have just been down that line again. But, you win some, you lose some.
[00:07:09] Chuck Carpenter: , for me, this is actually starting to settle a little bit on my tongue a bit better. You win , it starts to get a little syrupy, , but like, less of that, you know, a cola almost has like a weird, very light, like nutmeg y kind of something to it, and then this is actually getting more like a maple syrup, or a honey, for me, in the beginning.
[00:07:30] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. So I am warming up to it, to a degree. , it’s not like blowing me out of the water though. Still is very sweet, very high corn. And then you’ve got that port to add, to it as well. Which gives it like a more fruity flavor to it. , so for me, I don’t know. I’m like with you Dan, I think it’s like, maybe better than four, but not like blowing me away.
[00:07:50] Chuck Carpenter: So I’ll just split the difference and go four and a half on this one. alright, we gotta work on finishing this bottle though. Can’t, we can’t take it home. That’s the, I know you’ve [00:08:00] listened to a lot of episodes, and we just crush it in this hour. And, uh, when you get to the end, uh, this buzz vahl, is kinda like that.
[00:08:09] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, so. Mhm,
[00:08:10] Robbie Wagner: Chuck is of course kidding, but we you can have as much or as little as you want
[00:08:15] Robbie Wagner: Let’s go into a couple our hot takes are a little different this time, but uh, let’s Yeah,
[00:08:23] Robbie Wagner: , so we’re, we’re leaning into podcasting kind of as a theme here. So, Apple Podcasts or Spotify?
[00:08:30] Dan Blumberg: I’m using Spotify more these days, and actually they made a big, they made a whole bunch of podcast announcements today on the day that we’re recording this, but largely about video stuff. speaking of kayaking, I actually drowned a phone like two summers ago. And I was using pocket casts.
[00:08:46] Dan Blumberg: I’ve been using pocket casts forever until I accidentally drowned this phone. And when I had to reinstall everything, I just kind of fell into Spotify because it’s just kind of convenient and to have every, all the audio things in one place. And [00:09:00] also. It just connects a little bit better to like smart speakers and stuff like that.
[00:09:04] Dan Blumberg: That was like the one thing that PocketCast kind of let me down on. But it kind of bums me out that I’m kind of abandoning, a podcast specific app. Kind of by laziness and sort of by default. And I think that, and Spotify is like totally ascendant right now. And I don’t think it’s partly, mostly because of that.
[00:09:20] Dan Blumberg: Most people have never heard of PocketCast. But, but Spotify is like really, , hoovering up all the, all the podcast,
[00:09:26] Robbie Wagner: Oh, yeah.
[00:09:28] Dan Blumberg: listeners.
[00:09:28] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, they’re killing it on all fronts. Like, they’re also, they have audiobooks now, and like, they do video podcasts. They do, they’re kind of saying, like, we’re the only ones that are important. Like, they pulled out of IAB, Recently,
[00:09:42] Chuck Carpenter: Oh, is like the Yeah, the advertising I do because I was a member of IAB when I worked for National Geographic and was in charge of, uh, advertising technology. So that’s a funny thing. I haven’t Yeah, so basically they want to be able to say [00:10:00] Listens can be whatever we say. We’re not going to actually check if you downloaded it or whatever It’s like if you streamed it for a couple seconds or whatever They count it totally differently so you can’t really trust Their stats, but I think they’re going to win that game You And like, get everyone else to do what they think.
[00:10:17] Robbie Wagner: Cause they have such a like, mass of people listening that I think,
[00:10:20] Dan Blumberg: Spotify is really pushing video, like literally minutes before I joined this recording, they made a whole bunch of announcements today, largely about like encouraging podcasters to do more with video. They’re paying a bunch of podcasters, I think to just start putting videos on the platform.
[00:10:32] Dan Blumberg: But one of the things that comes with. I believe that comes with putting video on podcast. It’s a podcaster is it, it kind of breaks RSS in a way. I don’t know if you guys know about this. Like there there’s kind of a, this goes back to sort of my like lament about not using pocket casts. Like podcasting has been this like open platform because it relies on RSS and it’s totally open, but with Apple YouTube, [00:11:00] which is really who Spotify sees as their big competition is YouTube, it’s not Apple.
[00:11:03] Dan Blumberg: They are, I forget the exact details, but basically, it’s, it’s becoming more of a closed system like podcasting in general is being more of a closed system. And if you like, look at your analytics of the show. It’s good for a podcaster. You get much more specific data from a Spotify or Apple or YouTube because users are logged into those platforms.
[00:11:22] Dan Blumberg: You can see like consumption time and, things like that, that if you listen on, if you just download a file, like a downloads, like kind of a stupid metric, like, okay, a file went to a device, but did anyone actually listen? so Spotify and Apple and YouTube are better for that, but. In order to be better for that, it breaks this like open system that I think has actually made podcasting kind of special in the first place in that the analytics were always kind of shitty.
[00:11:47] Dan Blumberg: And so you’re just like, well, I don’t know, I guess I should just make a good show. Cause I can’t, I can’t optimize it. , so let’s just make it add whiskey and it’ll be better.
[00:11:56] Chuck Carpenter: Exactly. That’s it. It’s like, me talking, [00:12:00] boring. Me talking, post whiskey, much
[00:12:02] Chuck Carpenter: better. yeah,
[00:12:02] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Like, to me, I tend to agree, like, I don’t know that I love the way things are going and I don’t think video is useful, personally, , I mean, I guess the kids these days want the video or whatever, but like, to me, a podcast is a thing you put on when you’re doing something else. Like, I’m gonna mow the grass, I need something to listen to, I’m gonna listen to a podcast.
[00:12:24] Robbie Wagner: I don’t. Wanna have to watch it, but I guess you don’t have to watch every minute Maybe you like check in on the video every once in a while or whatever But it just seems weird to me like that. We’re gonna basically make it YouTube Yeah,
[00:12:39] Dan Blumberg: advantage of YouTube, you guys probably know is that the search engine, it’s Google, but the search is so good and it’s so hard to find podcasts. That’s the problem for a lot of people that YouTube solves. I’m, I’m, I mean, I’m of the, I’m the same thing, like, I don’t, I don’t have a need for video either.
[00:12:53] Dan Blumberg: I do, I am looking at you now through, like, a better camera, better lights that I’ve gotten all in the past, like, six months because I’m leveling up [00:13:00] that game.
[00:13:00] Dan Blumberg: But it’s, it makes it more expensive, it makes it harder to edit, it’s a pain in the ass. but also, like, you know, I’m embracing it and, like, you know, trying to be more capital C creator about the whole thing, which is, like, a little, also a little, like, painful to say.
[00:13:15] Chuck Carpenter: If that’s where the growth is, or that’s where the audiences are, and that, that’s making a difference, I guess. Like, you, you do what you gotta do. I mean, we very much embrace that, obviously. At this point, much to, I mean, would I rather, like, Not have good lighting and not do all of the things, you know, like you said, the expense to include all of that is crazy.
[00:13:39] Chuck Carpenter: And I do my podcast like at a coworking space podcast room. So I have to set up and break down
[00:13:46] Dan Blumberg: Yeah. I also have to set up and break down because I’m, I don’t have a dedicated room in my house. And so I don’t just leave the lights and everything up. it also hit me when I started, like, Really caring about video. I was like, oh shit, did I shave today? Stuff like [00:14:00] that. Or have I gotten a haircut in the last couple weeks?
[00:14:03] Dan Blumberg: Stuff like that that just kind of sneaks up on you is like, annoying.
[00:14:06] Dan Blumberg: anyway, I can keep complaining about as an old school radio person for
[00:14:11] Dan Blumberg: as long as
[00:14:11] Chuck Carpenter: but, so it’s a Spotify for you, and yeah, they really are kind of owning the space more and more.
[00:14:18] Dan Blumberg: Yeah, I’m also, by the way, on, on Android. So, so app podcast doesn’t really make sense for me. Sure.
[00:14:24] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. So I guess while we’re on the topic, since you’ve mentioned getting a better camera and different equipment and stuff, we’re going to jump around a bit here and not do all hot takes at once. One of the things Chuck did want to bring up was, , like equipment in general. You know, if you’re looking to start a podcast, like what is kind of the, bare minimum you need.
[00:14:42] Robbie Wagner: And then also like, you know, what specifically are you using now? , if you want to like, Level up your stuff, you know, just advice in terms of gear, I guess
[00:14:50] Dan Blumberg: I mean, I, I can get into that, but I would say really what you need to get started is like a good concept of like, what you want your show to be. And I think people spend too [00:15:00] much time thinking about what microphone should I have. Um, you know, it’s just trite, but like, it’s really, really easy to start a podcast.
[00:15:06] Dan Blumberg: It’s very hard to continue with a podcast. and I view this stat as like, actually a depressing stat, even though it sounds like I’m bragging or whatever, but like, Crafted is like a top 2.5 podcast, according to some, like, you know, podcast metrics and things. you know, and the show has like, you know, a nice audience, but not an enormous audience by any stretch and I’m like, Oh, that’s really sad for the like, long tail, of folks that, you know, it’s so, because if you publish like five episodes, I think you’re already like a top 50 podcast or something like that. so just consistency, like pick a topic that. Like is interesting to you have some unique angle on it. All that stuff comes way, way, way, way, way before like what equipment should I have that said, this is a Shure SM7B microphone. This is sort of the like among microphones, probably the most famous one.
[00:15:54] Dan Blumberg: it’s probably not the one that I would recommend to most podcasters because in order for this [00:16:00] microphone to work with a computer, you need to plug it into like, if I trace from the microphone down, like physically down, like there’s called a cloud lifter that’s on the floor next to me, which is like a preamp basically.
[00:16:12] Dan Blumberg: And then it goes into, I have a focus, right. , mixer, which is, Taking the, this XLR cable right here and converting it into USB. And then that goes into my, my Mac. So I don’t think that’s necessary for most people. That sure. Also has a mic called, I think it’s the MV seven is basically the USB version of this mic.
[00:16:31] Dan Blumberg: And I would probably recommend that to most people because you don’t need half of the equipment I just mentioned. It’s goes, it’s just USB, it goes straight into your machine. So if you can splurge. 250, 300. I think that’s a really, really solid microphone. and then, as far as like cameras and lights, I’m not really the best person to ask for that, but I can tell you what I’m using.
[00:16:52] Dan Blumberg: , which is, I’m looking at you right now through a teleprompter. Actually, this is a recent addition to my computer. Setup is a [00:17:00] teleprompter so I can look at you and look at the camera at the same time Whereas previously I was sort of always looking up or you never quite know where to look and so the teleprompter and the camera that I Recently purchased are both from Elgato Elgato then I have a couple lights I have a key light here a key light there a key light there and my my setup is like it’s it’s okay It’s good.
[00:17:20] Dan Blumberg: it’s a huge step up from where I was like six months ago, but it’s, it’s, this is not like TV grade.
[00:17:26] Chuck Carpenter: Baby steps, right? Everything’s baby steps.
[00:17:30] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, i’m gonna have to look into the teleprompter. I’ve been wanting to do that like have my camera straight on So it’s like i’m talking to you specifically like
[00:17:38] Dan Blumberg: Yeah.
[00:17:38] Robbie Wagner: So i’ll have to look look into that Yeah
[00:17:45] Chuck Carpenter: know. But yeah, it’s kind of the same deal where like I don’t want to look into like a laptop screen, which is often what I’m doing now.
[00:17:53] Dan Blumberg: Yeah, so like literally the camera is in, is like behind a mirror,
[00:17:56] Dan Blumberg: you know, that’s, that’s, so I’m looking at you through a mirror. The monitor is actually right [00:18:00] there and it bounces off a mirror into my
[00:18:01] Chuck Carpenter: Well, yeah, not bad. Okay, well you might have sold us on something else new. We’re always
[00:18:07] Dan Blumberg: All right. I got it. I got to set up an affiliate link.
[00:18:09] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, exactly. Here you go. This is about the craft of crafted. Okay. And we’re working up there. So I think the hot take around that for me was yes, like, I do want to talk about like the craft of podcasts and different things along the way.
[00:18:24] Chuck Carpenter: But also like, what about for your guests? Do you have kind of some asks or requirements for that? Or they can show? Yeah, or they can show up with air
[00:18:35] Dan Blumberg: No, no, I, that’s actually one of the few things that I do have a, I’ve done one or two episodes where things like we’re breaking and we’re like, all right, let’s just the deal. What we got. I ask all guests to have proper microphone, uh, like a USB, at least a USB connected microphone, like not AirPods.
[00:18:50] Dan Blumberg: There is a huge difference. , and I have listened to so many podcasts. Where, like, I’ll listen to, like, the intro of the show, like, if I see something on LinkedIn or something, I’ll [00:19:00] click on it, I’ll listen to the intro, I’ll listen to the ads, and then they finally get to the guest, and the guest is, like, it sounds like, you know, they’re, like, through a phone line or whatever, or AirPods, and I can’t, I’m not going to listen to this.
[00:19:10] Chuck Carpenter: And uh, there’s a lot of zing of how short all of my analog. Kind of like that.
[00:19:15] Dan Blumberg: was just tinny and very high pitched. , so there are really cheap, but really good USB powered mics. Like the one I just mentioned, the MV7 from Shure is far more expensive than I would ask a guest to get. But I have had, many guests that I previously, I actually would just purchase it for them if they needed it.
[00:19:32] Dan Blumberg: There’s a, Audio Technica, like 50 microphone you got on Amazon.
[00:19:37] Dan Blumberg: And these days I’ll usually. Ask the guests if they have a good microphone, and if they don’t, I’ll say, I’ll give them a link to it and say, like, you know, if you give me your address, I’ll like, I’ll send it to you and they always, I’m like, and it’s 40, I’ll put in the price in the email, it’s 49 bucks and they’re like, all right, I’ll get it.
[00:19:51] Dan Blumberg: cause it’ll be useful for something else in it, but it’s a little tabletop mic, and it makes just, it makes a huge difference. So that’s the one thing, and they have to wear headphones because even as, [00:20:00] as good as, noise cancellation like AI technology is it’s not as good as just wearing a pair of headphones.
[00:20:04] Dan Blumberg: You don’t have to cancel out the sound of the person asking you the questions. , so those are the two things video I’m much less precious about. Like it’s, you know, do the best you can. If there’s, if you’re backlit, I’ll ask you to close the blinds or something like that. But I don’t spend a lot of time helping guests with their, with their video.
[00:20:21] Dan Blumberg: But we do before every interview that I do spend a couple minutes, you know, just configuring a mic and. one fun fact, I don’t know, like I used to produce Morning Edition at WNYC for many years and the canonical question, you guys may know this, to ask someone when they’re like, Setting up their mic and getting it in the right place is, would you have a breakfast today?
[00:20:40] Dan Blumberg: So I used to know what like everybody in New York, you know, from the mayor on down, like had for breakfast because I would ask them that like, and you’d learn the funniest things of like, Oh, I just had a cigarette or like, Oh, I had nothing because I do intermittent fasting or like, you know, whatever yogurt, granola, like is the most banal, but also revealing question.
[00:20:58] Chuck Carpenter: [00:21:00] Yeah.
[00:21:00] Dan Blumberg: I still ask it because it’s sort of a nice, like,
[00:21:03] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.
[00:21:03] Dan Blumberg: in some ways. That’d be, that’d be good. I would enjoy that.
[00:21:08] Chuck Carpenter: right?
[00:21:09] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, that, that’s just what Chuck had for breakfast. Not
[00:21:11] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, this is breakfast currently for me on the west coast.
[00:21:15] Chuck Carpenter: think I heard you in one of your episodes, , talk about, or you mentioned that you have like a pre interview also before having the guest on and
[00:21:24] Dan Blumberg: Yeah. Almost exclusive, unless I’ve, unless I’ve seen the guests speak at a conference or something, or there’s tons of video of them out there. Even then I still want to have just a 30 minute call with them where we just go over. Like, I want them to know, I want to get to know them just a little bit.
[00:21:39] Dan Blumberg: Explain who the target audience for the show is in my case, you know, it’s people who make software and then sort of and then I just I want to ask a couple questions that might not be obvious from whatever articles or videos or, you know, linkedin pages are out there find that the pre interview though.
[00:21:54] Dan Blumberg: It can slow things down in terms of like first meeting the guest actually recording I find it makes a really big difference. [00:22:00] And so and most people most people are game. It may take a little extra time But I don’t think i’ve had anyone say, you know, I don’t think of anyone declined because of that So yeah, so I guess the two things are sort of the pre interview unless i’ve met them in person and don’t don’t need that prep and a decent microphone
[00:22:16] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I think that’s reasonable. We have not super enforced that sometimes and, uh, it’s gone poorly a few
[00:22:24] Dan Blumberg: Yeah, you just find yourself fishing
[00:22:26] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, yeah, it can be hit or miss and then like some sometimes what your expectations even if you find some sort of content online and then in this format it just kind of doesn’t translate well or maybe they feel like they’re on another zoom meeting or I don’t know, , whiskey doesn’t have the same effect on them that you were hoping for.
[00:22:45] Chuck Carpenter: It doesn’t introduce that sort of release and casualness, you know, like sometimes you’re just not a winner.
[00:22:51] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. The microphone thing though, is, is weird to me that people don’t care about it as a guest. Like, if you were like, Hey, come on my podcast. I guess maybe [00:23:00] because I’m a podcaster, I’m like, Well, I definitely won’t do it unless I have my microphone ready. I want to put my best foot forward. But everyone else is like, Oh yeah, wherever I am at the time I’m traveling abroad.
[00:23:09] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I’ll just call in from my phone. Like, like, uh, no.
[00:23:13] Dan Blumberg: it used to be like way back when I was producing at WNYC and also Chicago Public Radio before then, we would just insist that people who were going to call in, call us on a landline. Like, you know, that was before Zoom and Riverside and stuff like that, but it’s like, you can’t call on a cell phone.
[00:23:27] Dan Blumberg: That’s like the one thing,
[00:23:29] Dan Blumberg: unless it’s like breaking news and it’s the only thing possible, but like, and that was back when people still had landlines, , largely. cause even that’s a huge audio difference, landline versus a cell phone.
[00:23:39] Chuck Carpenter: That’s true. Yeah, even today. I remember they used to have those funny, like, where you could plug in to the mic port, and then it looked like, you know, it had the mic here, and you could talk into it, and it was like, here you go.
[00:23:51] Dan Blumberg: yeah. when I was at Chicago public radio. This is 2002. I covered like on election night. I’d be out at like a victory where hopefully [00:24:00] the candidate hopefully be a victory party never knew. But we would literally install landlines like like all the radio stations would install landlines at the wherever the victory or parties would be,
[00:24:10] Dan Blumberg: because we wanted the, you know, reporters people to call in and have some, you know, quasi decent sound quality.
[00:24:16] Dan Blumberg: This is obviously very different today. Today you would, I don’t know, you’d use some encoded
[00:24:20] Chuck Carpenter: You just record a TikTok and send that in right? I think today it would just be like dancing. It’s good here Yeah, I don’t know. That’s what the kids do. I think I’m not sure. I don’t have a TikTok I don’t watch that so I can’t be sure.
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[00:25:06] Robbie Wagner: yeah, I don’t understand tick tock like I don’t know I’m just too old for it I just can’t I can’t do it I’ve tried posting a few things on there And unless it’s like super compelling or like very like even on YouTube. I feel like these days The content is very I’m gonna take this soap and carve it Or I’m gonna you know do a thing that’s satisfying to watch that has no like Value at all.
[00:25:31] Robbie Wagner: It’s just cool to watch and that’s the only stuff that tends to do well I guess tiktok does have some funny things occasionally I don’t really watch stuff on there but like my wife will curate some for me and like show me the good ones and like oh, these are kind of fun, but
[00:25:46] Dan Blumberg: you were not
[00:25:47] Dan Blumberg: dancing. No
[00:25:49] Chuck Carpenter: No dancing, I think the only things I’ve seen from there like get cross posted so there’s that chef reactions guy Who, he watches, like, YouTube, [00:26:00] like, terrible YouTube cooking videos, and then, like, gives it a rating, and then says, you know, whether you try it or not, and some of them are, like, really great, some are okay, and then some are just weird, absolute garbage, and then he’ll be like, , one out of ten, still would try one bite, you know, stuff like that, it’s really funny, I guess if you guys haven’t seen that one, cooking things do kind of capture my attention, and I guess short form ones are pretty interesting.
[00:26:25] Chuck Carpenter: I don’t even watch our clips, to be honest.
[00:26:27] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, I don’t know what they are, they go up there. Yeah, I know, you make
[00:26:30] Robbie Wagner: I’ll just start posting all ones of you that are really terrible takes and that’s all we’ll
[00:26:35] Robbie Wagner: do.
[00:26:36] Chuck Carpenter: perfect.
[00:26:37] Chuck Carpenter: So, still on the similar thread, although I know we have some other, like, slightly technology related ones. Do you have any advice? Again, kind of staying on the thread around like podcasting and, and just content creation, just because a lot of people in the web and tech and whatever else are doing more and more of that.
[00:26:54] Chuck Carpenter: So there’s a lot of interest there. Growing your audience. Do you think that there are any like, I [00:27:00] don’t know, top three table stakes if you’re looking to like, have a good show. Let’s make that assumption that that’s already a good thing. I’ve got a good show and I’m trying to grow my audience.
[00:27:09] Chuck Carpenter: What do you think are the top three things you should do?
[00:27:12] Dan Blumberg: To grow. I mean, I’m, I’m going through this now. Like podcast growth is slow, even, for most people, even in the best of circumstances. , and so one of the things that I’m actually looking at right now is like, for me is like, The promise of the show so right now I promise the show is a show about great products and the people who make them I think that’s a little too vague.
[00:27:30] Dan Blumberg: I think I actually need to tighten that up a little bit on my show , I sometimes go on and i’ll say like, you know, it’s for founders makers and innovators Help you make great products. I think I actually need to tighten that up I like so so what i’m getting at is like I think you need to make a promise To the listener to the viewer and like keep that promise and make it really obvious for them that like everything from the show title to the cover art.
[00:27:56] Dan Blumberg: To the first, couple minutes of the episode, like that’s, [00:28:00] actually truly critical is like, but you have to get people to listen in the first place. So, you know, starting from where people first become aware of the show or of the episode, , to help them click through, like, like make, make a promise that they can follow through.
[00:28:11] Dan Blumberg: , and then something that’s really, really critical. Like I, you know, whether it’s podcasts or any other product that I’ve built, like retention is just so important and something I’m trying to Improve right now with crafted and this gets back to the analytics thing of like what you can learn in Spotify and Apple and YouTube, but you can’t learn if someone just downloads a file and listens on whatever other like RSS powered podcast app.
[00:28:32] Dan Blumberg: But in those three apps, you can. See like minute by minute. Okay, at second zero I had a hundred listeners and then it’s already dropped to like 90 by 30 seconds in and then you know by 60 seconds in i’m down to like 70 like oh shit. Well, probably need to work on the intro to that episode and so I think that’s that’s really important is you you got to hook people, you know and that that applies to like social media that applies to podcasting it’s like people have short attention spans, you need to very quickly hook [00:29:00] them.
[00:29:00] Dan Blumberg: and so I think about retention a lot, like, you need to keep people, from that first minute. I don’t know if you guys saw the, um, the Mr. Beast leaked memo, did you guys read through that? Did you see that? You know what I’m talking about?
[00:29:11] Chuck Carpenter: I, I saw the announcement
[00:29:13] Chuck Carpenter: about Like, um, like a month or two ago, Mr.
[00:29:16] Dan Blumberg: Beast, a memo that he had written for new employees of Mr. Beast Productions leaked. and I’m not, you know, my kids watch Mr. Beast, so I’m very aware of him. but Effectively, it got into, like, it’s really, it’s very, very, back to, like, the questions about, like, what do you have to do to, like, succeed on YouTube?
[00:29:33] Dan Blumberg: I think it’s actually, like, required reading for anyone that wants to succeed on YouTube, just to, just to know how he does it, not that you should do it that way, but it’s, it’s very, very, very, focused on the thumbnail, like, the, like, the static image, like, that, it’s, like, if, if I remember right, the gist of it is, like, if I can’t imagine ep, the title of the episode And what the thumbnail will look like, then we’re not even going to go forward.
[00:29:56] Dan Blumberg: Like that, that comes before anything. Uh, it’s actually a totally [00:30:00] interesting read. , all about how for employees of Mr. Beast Productions, like, to know, like, which part of the episode they’re working on, if you’re, and if you’re working on, he effectively says, the reason I thought of is, like, he effectively says, if you’re, you’re sort of working in the middle of the episode, not that any part of the episode should suck, but if you’re working in the middle of the episode, that’s, you know, that’s, like, the one part where you’re, like, alright, it doesn’t have to be, like, as, it’s not as important as the first part.
[00:30:23] Dan Blumberg: 20 seconds, 30 seconds, you know, a minute or two, and so if there’s, if it’s going to drag at any point and he doesn’t like anything to drag, but if it’s gonna drag anyways, it should drag somewhere in the middle because you want, you just need to get people through that first minute or two.
[00:30:35] Dan Blumberg: And this is very similar to like stuff that, you know, if you work on. Any new, you know, product or application, especially mobile apps, like getting somebody to open a mobile app once is really hard. Getting them to open a mobile app twice is like almost impossible. And so if you look at like, you know, they’re called survival charts, you know, in, in medicine or like in retention charts, like day one, a hundred users day two.
[00:30:57] Dan Blumberg: 65 users. You’re like, oh man. And then, and then it [00:31:00] plateaus like there’s like a steep drop and then it kind of plateaus. So if you can arrest that plateau, I get that plateau to be higher. that’s where the first minute or the first, like first time user experience of an app is so important.
[00:31:10] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I like how uh some shows do like the most important snippets in the beginning
[00:31:17] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know that i’m ever gonna do it, but I like I respect that people do it because sometimes you know, there are so many podcasts that I follow i’ll start it for a second And if I don’t understand what I might hear in the next hour, then i’m probably just gonna be like Well, I don’t know what this one’s about.
[00:31:33] Robbie Wagner: I’m going to skip to the next thing. Like People don’t have much attention span these days. So it is very important to do something to draw them in within the first
[00:31:40] Dan Blumberg: Yep. Yeah. And that’s where you’ll see people will use like cliffhangers and stuff like that. So just to tell you just enough.
[00:31:46] Chuck Carpenter: Hmm. That’s fair. That seems like pretty strong advice there. I think we could learn from that ourselves, for sure.
[00:31:53] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, it is fun to watch the graphs because like anytime we do an ad read or something in the beginning you see It’s [00:32:00] like people are here and then nobody and then
[00:32:02] Robbie Wagner: they Oh, yeah. Well, at least they’re fast
[00:32:03] Dan Blumberg: forwarding. There’s there’s at
[00:32:05] Dan Blumberg: least if you see them come back, that is the one thing is that’s the weird thing with with those retention charts is you will see that like dip and come back if that’s if they’re fast forwarding. Or you might see people like listen to a section twice, I guess they could rewind and listen twice, but
[00:32:18] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Speaking of ads and like monetization in general, like what are strategies around, you know, attracting brands to want to do ads or like, just how do you make money as a podcaster?
[00:32:32] Dan Blumberg: Yeah, I mean, to be honest, like to hear your take on this. , I just came off a several month partnership with Docker, , which was lovely kind of coincidence. So the history of crafted is the reason I said at the very outset that I sort of launched it by accident. I launched crafted when I was with the software consultancy two years ago.
[00:32:50] Dan Blumberg: , it’s not where they hired me. They hired me to be a product, , an engagement leader to work and, you know, help clients build better software and they just kind of happened to mention my first week. They’re like, we’re thinking of [00:33:00] maybe launching a podcast and I kind of raised my hand like, hi, I worked in radio for 10 years.
[00:33:04] Dan Blumberg: Are we, are we serious about this? And so that’s how I like kind of rediscovered my love for, uh, stories and, you know, and being on mic and all, all the rest of it. , and I love podcasting because you get to just have people on and you can kind of, once the microphone’s involved somehow, you can ask them questions you can’t otherwise, when I left Artium, I was able to take the podcast ownership with me. So I got the IP and I met Docker who were looking to launch a brand new show. they’d reached out to an old radio friend of mine who produces podcasts. And he was like, they kind of want the show that you just got.
[00:33:38] Dan Blumberg: Actually, I didn’t even have it yet. I was still negotiating ownership of the show. that’s the one big, , monetization that I’ve had so far for Crafted. Because it was, it previously was, the monetization was, you know, Helping build the brand of Artie and the consultancy that was with, , and that’s where a lot of podcasts actually do monetize really well.
[00:33:55] Dan Blumberg: So like, we’ve talked about, podcasts gaining a really large [00:34:00] audience and, you know, that’s, that’s one way that that’s a very, very, very rare case. a lot of podcasts do very well. Because you’re just looking for a certain type of listener and you don’t need a lot of them, , or the podcast monetizes in other ways, , in terms of it just builds your brand or your credibility or something like that.
[00:34:18] Dan Blumberg: And so it’s a rare podcast that needs hundreds of thousands of downloads per episode. , many B2B podcasts are doing well because, if you have an offering that costs a million dollars, like a contract with a software consultancy might, then you only need to like influence maybe even half a sale a year and the podcast is more than paid for.
[00:34:42] Dan Blumberg: and so, so for, for, for consultants, they make a ton of sense. So anyway, that that’s that’s like one way to monetize it. It’s just like it monetizes outside the podcast. It’s building your brand and it’s helping you sell a very, very, very high ticket item. as far as like ad sponsors, I’m looking for new ad sponsors right now for crafted.
[00:34:59] Dan Blumberg: , I’ve died [00:35:00] did 20 episodes with Docker and we’re going to move on. , so I’m figuring that out actively right now, , but I think having a, like, to get out of the trap of having to have a huge audience, it’s being able to tell a story about, I have really influential people that listen to this podcast.
[00:35:16] Dan Blumberg: Like, everyone that listens to this show is a CTO, and they control the budget of their organization, and like, frequently buy lots of B2B SaaS software. Like, okay, you don’t need a ton of those people, like, if you have like, you know, again, like, if you have a couple of those, then, then that makes it easier, so, that’s, that’s, um, somewhat of the world that I’m looking at right now, is like, and it’s hard for me, honestly, because I have very, wide interests and I like to talk about lots of things and I need to for monetization reasons probably need to be really focused on like a certain type of listener and what they’re looking to get out of the show and and that sometimes like there’s a tension there for me of like going narrow versus going broad.
[00:35:58] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, you [00:36:00] want to be able to, like, have that scoped demographic when you speak to potential partners and advertisers, but conversely You might want to expand that circle to have this deep discussion and something else you find really interesting. Isn’t that always kind of the thing? It’s like, sort of, sometimes it’s the work you want to do and the work that pays you, right?
[00:36:19] Chuck Carpenter: And you have to, like, I don’t know, in the movie business they say, like, one for them, one for me, kind of thing.
[00:36:25] Dan Blumberg: yeah, yeah. yeah. I’ve heard
[00:36:26] Dan Blumberg: of that. Yeah.
[00:36:27] Chuck Carpenter: it’s almost like that.
[00:36:28] Dan Blumberg: Yeah.
[00:36:28] Robbie Wagner: I think related like we’ve talked about this a little before is like some people say be your authentic self Like if you’re trying to do anything, that’s not you don’t enjoy then it’s like not going to come across. Well, you’re not gonna You know get listeners whatever But if you have a very specific, you know listener persona, you’re trying to hit And it’s not really what you want to talk to but you know, it will
[00:36:51] Robbie Wagner: monetize like I don’t know.
[00:36:53] Robbie Wagner: How do you how do you straddle that line? I
[00:36:55] Robbie Wagner: guess
[00:36:55] Dan Blumberg: I’ve more read about this, but I, I think, you know, you don’t want to, you don’t want to get [00:37:00] really good at a job that you don’t enjoy. And so I think, I think that’s the trap that like, and I, and I know that actually, from reading a lot, , a lot of this comes from this guy, , Jay Klaus, who, who runs a company called creator science and he’s become pretty well known in the space.
[00:37:13] Dan Blumberg: And I’ve listened to a lot of his stuff and, he’s talked about and others have talked about YouTube can be somewhat perilous because if your, content spikes, like it hits the algorithm, the algorithm loves it. It like, you know, it’s like feast or famine with YouTube. Like most, most of your videos are going to get like, I don’t know, you know, whatever it is, dozens or hundreds of views.
[00:37:33] Dan Blumberg: And then every now and then you might get like half a million and you’re going to get a whole bunch of new followers who liked whatever it was about that video. They really liked. And that video might’ve actually been an outlier for you. It might not have been the one that like you normally produce it, but there’s, but there’s some reason.
[00:37:47] Dan Blumberg: And so like, you actually end up getting a whole bunch of followers that, and this hasn’t happened to me yet, but like, I’ve, I’ve read about, and listen, like they get a whole bunch of followers and they’re not actually the target [00:38:00] audience. And so now it’s like, do I make more content for them? Because worked, they loved it, but they’re actually not the people who are going to buy my whatever product I’m ultimately selling or, you know, , or it’s not who I want to be. And, but you can end up in a trap. And actually, I think with YouTube, like. In some ways like that one viral hit can actually work against you in a way because one you have to ask these questions but two Once you have people who follow you and then they don’t like your content and that dings you on the algorithm later and so these are like these are kind of champagne problems that I don’t have right now, but that is that is a problem of like staying focused on who is your who is your real audience?
[00:38:36] Dan Blumberg: What’s really the story that you want to tell? , and how do you not get distracted by? You know kind of one offs
[00:38:42] Robbie Wagner: yeah, and I think you know, having a big enough audience to just like turn on monetization on YouTube and make that your career is like, you don’t understand how high that is. Maybe if you’re trying to do that as like your only thing, I think you’re right about like, you know, [00:39:00] pick a niche that you really can focus on and be like, Well, I don’t have the biggest audience, but I have like this audience, they control these decisions.
[00:39:09] Robbie Wagner: You know, these specific advertisers will give you more than just a general, Oh, YouTube is going to throw a, you know, some random ad on there. , that’s never going to pay you much unless you have like consistently hundreds of millions of views on everything you put
[00:39:23] Dan Blumberg: Yeah. Yeah. The same thing applies to podcast ads, like typical podcast ads are sold on a CPM, you know, cost per thousand listener, excuse me, thousand download, which is a big difference. Cost per thousand download metric, that’s the standard ad metric in podcasting.
[00:39:41] Dan Blumberg: I hope to not play that game because again, unless you, unless you become like a top 0. 1 percent or maybe top 1 percent podcast, like the thousands of listeners don’t really add up to enough. The typical ad rates are like 25 to 30 CPM. But if you have like a, you know, [00:40:00] highly select audience, maybe it’s more like.
[00:40:02] Dan Blumberg: A hundred or more. that’s one thing. And then also being creative with the actual advertising content that you create, I think is another way to separate yourself so you can do more than just, you know, playing a 32nd ad. You can do hostries, you can have, , you know, this is something that I did recently, like you can have the, you know, like the CTO or someone from the company that you’re.
[00:40:24] Dan Blumberg: that’s sponsoring you and, and have them tell a story that, that integrates well, that feels natural, you know, to the show. It’s still, it’s still clearly marked, like, this is sort of my journalistic training, like, it’s still clearly marked as an ad, but it feels natural to the show, and I think that’s another way that you can, you know, charge higher than standard rates, as if it doesn’t exist.
[00:40:42] Dan Blumberg: feel as much like an ad and, you know, and, and it, it, it benefits the company. And there, and then there are other things you can, you know, you can add it, newsletters and, you know, social media plugs and there’s
[00:40:53] Chuck Carpenter: That’s true. Yeah, like your scope is greater in that sense. You’re integrating it more so you don’t have that whole [00:41:00] dip and come back. Because, oh, they heard it. They did a 30 second skip. Which, by the way, this episode is brought to you by No, I’m just kidding. There isn’t one of those. Yeah, those are all good points though.
[00:41:11] Robbie Wagner: yeah, so we did talk, you mentioned a little bit about RSS, like video breaking RSS. What’s missing from RSS now that we need to add to like, um, You know, get us all on the best footing across all platforms for podcasting. Okay.
[00:41:29] Robbie Wagner: to mind for me is they don’t, I think there are some people have added support for like a transcript in there. But like not every platform will do it yet So I would love to see that be a thing across Everything because right now we just like upload our transcripts to our website they’re there but you can’t see them if you’re like, uh, I guess Spotify does their own
[00:41:51] Dan Blumberg: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I have definitely seen, it’s, it’s becoming more widespread, but yes, there is. It’s not, it’s not at all consistent,
[00:41:58] Dan Blumberg: uh, and and [00:42:00] even like basic stuff actually, in terms of like which podcast apps support inline links or bullet points or even stuff like that is really, it’s surprisingly.
[00:42:09] Dan Blumberg: inconsistent.
[00:42:11] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.
[00:42:11] Robbie Wagner: think Apple is like I might be getting this wrong But I think it’s like if you’re logged in you can like the stuff is clickable You And if you’re not, it’s not, or vice versa. I went to look at it. I was like, none of our stuff, our links aren’t clickable. And then it was like, somebody explained it to me.
[00:42:26] Robbie Wagner: I was like, Oh, okay. So you’re right. They are. But yeah, it’s, I don’t understand it. It seems like such a basic technology that we should just kind of all do the same things, but we just don’t, for whatever reason,
[00:42:38] Chuck Carpenter: womp. I have a non podcast question, or, there’s a few things we actually like to ask our guests, and I think we should take some time for that. If you weren’t in tech, What career would you choose? It doesn’t have to be something you already have a skill at, just maybe something you’ve had interest or desire in.
[00:42:57] Dan Blumberg: probably, it’s, I mean, I’ve talked about how my career is sort of [00:43:00] straddled media and tech, so to the extent that media or storytelling is not tech, it’s probably that. Or, you know, or it’s just like be a ski bum or a kayak guide or, you know,
[00:43:10] Chuck Carpenter: Right, right. You get one of those vans that you live out on, but it’s like, you live in, but it’s all tricked out, and like, it has a pull out kitchen and whatever, you know, those like, van life, transporter vans. It always sounds good in theory. I’ve yeah, pull it wouldn’t work. Yeah, it does. You just like slide this whole thing out, and you’re like out in Utah, and you’re cooking outside, and there’s a beautiful backdrop.
[00:43:34] Dan Blumberg: Yeah. I mean, something outdoors. I think I had a brief, very brief flirtation with like some, some version of farming. And then I was like, man, they work hard. I don’t know.
[00:43:44] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,
[00:43:45] Dan Blumberg: I don’t know. I don’t know. that for me. yeah, I kill half my garden, so, and I don’t want to starve. Yeah.
[00:43:53] Robbie Wagner: Everybody that’s in tech will be like, oh, yeah I i’m just gonna go farm now or whatever and it’s like have you looked at how much [00:44:00] work that is because it is a lot of work, especially if you’re like, you don’t have the equipment to start and like You know, you need a ton of land a ton of equipment a ton of workers I guess if it’s just for fun if you’ve made your fortune already You Then fine you can farm, you know recreationally but as a business it’s pretty hard to compete
[00:44:21] Chuck Carpenter: We’ve just lost all our farmer audience now. They like recreation. I’m out of here.
[00:44:29] Dan Blumberg: Yeah. That’s what they sound like. I don’t know.
[00:44:31] Robbie Wagner: Well during this super dark period of it being dark at 5 p. m they have a lot more time for recreation right now. You can’t farm right now
[00:44:40] Chuck Carpenter: That’s fair. So are there , any other projects or podcasts that you’re really into right now? what other podcasts do you listen to?
[00:44:48] Dan Blumberg: I’ve been listening to a lot of tech podcasts. I’m actually, there’s a podcast curation app called Hark, it helps you like, find new podcasts and sort of helps you like, Hear the [00:45:00] best snippets of different episodes from different podcasts.
[00:45:02] Dan Blumberg: people there is someone I used to work with at the New York Times. And so I’ve, because I’m helping them Prototype like a tech curation thing , I am listening to a lot of tech podcasts right now Because I’m actively pulling clips
[00:45:15] Chuck Carpenter: Like what, like syntax or like a different tech? Tech business, tech, tech like the craft
[00:45:21] Dan Blumberg: It’s, it’s like, I’m, I mean, the things I’m listening for, it’s not for a tech audience per se. It’s folks interested in tech. So it’s, so it’s actually, to be honest, it’s actually podcast. I wasn’t really listening to too much myself, but, but I enjoy, Big Technology with Alex Kantrowicz.
[00:45:38] Dan Blumberg: , he’s a good independent journalist right now. I like Hard Fork. , also from Casey Newton and Kevin Roos. , one independent, one New York Times journalist. Those are both good for tech news. I like Decoder with Neelay Patel.
[00:45:49] Dan Blumberg: I like how I built this. I crept this actually sort of was one of the inspirations for my shows, how I built this, but for people who make software.
[00:45:57] Dan Blumberg: So at a level, a level deeper, how I built this, I find is very, [00:46:00] it’s more of the emotional journey of an entrepreneur than anything else. Um, but I, I love the, I love the production value of that show. , acquired has become a total sensation. It’s not, I don’t know if you guys know the show, like it’s not, not really for me, like it’s.
[00:46:14] Dan Blumberg: it’s one episode a month, and it’s a deep dive on some company that you’ve definitely heard of, like Microsoft or, of that, that level, and it’s like four hours per
[00:46:26] Dan Blumberg: episode, uh, deeply researched, and it’s by these two guys, David and Ben, who, , started the show, I think the show’s like eight or nine years old, and they started the show because they were doing this research anyway as sort of mid level associates at VC firms.
[00:46:42] Dan Blumberg: And they’re like, well, we’re researching Company X anyway, and let’s just talk about it. And the two of them started talking about it, and it turned out they were like sort of natural podcasters, but it’s just the two of them, like, sharing research for like several, several hours. The show has just grown year over year over year and was featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal this summer and became like [00:47:00] a number one podcast.
[00:47:01] Dan Blumberg: , it was already kind of, maybe not on the way to number one, but like on the way they’ve, anyway, they’ve had a huge moment. They had a big event, like a huge live event with Mark Zuckerberg on stage in San Francisco like a month or two ago. So I listened to that show, just sort of to be aware of it and what, what they’re sharing and sort of, sort of to be, To learn from their success.
[00:47:18] Dan Blumberg: , cause they’re sort of an overnight success, eight years in the making,
[00:47:21] Dan Blumberg: which I think is, you know, if you’re going to, if you’re going to, if you’re going to really make it in podcasting, that’s probably actually how it happens is, you
[00:47:26] Dan Blumberg: know, toil and toil and toil. And then, you know, like, hopefully like it really, really pops.
[00:47:31] Dan Blumberg: , so I like that show.
[00:47:32] Chuck Carpenter: Any non business related things, like something, like I listen to SmartList.
[00:47:38] Dan Blumberg: I do listen to smart lists. Yeah.
[00:47:40] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:47:40] Robbie Wagner: listen to that anymore. It’s not
[00:47:42] Robbie Wagner: a Wondry Podcast anymore. Yeah,
[00:47:47] Dan Blumberg: this week with Sasha Baron Cohen and enjoying that and Tim Burton. Actually, the Tim Burton episode was,
[00:47:52] Dan Blumberg: I just, I love him. I love Beetlejuice. So that was great. , so that’s one for sure, but that’s not really a deep cut. I’m
[00:47:57] Dan Blumberg: kind
[00:47:57] Chuck Carpenter: Darknet Diaries. You like to tell [00:48:00] stories. That’s text stories. Darknet Diaries? Have you heard that
[00:48:02] Chuck Carpenter: one?
[00:48:03] Dan Blumberg: I, I’m aware of the show. I’ve listened to it a little bit. , I love the production value. I haven’t, I haven’t really gotten into the show though.
[00:48:09] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Fair enough.
[00:48:11] Robbie Wagner: it’s pretty good.
[00:48:12] Robbie Wagner: Alright, well, I do have a hard stop for dinner, so before then, what things do you want to plug before we end here?
[00:48:19] Dan Blumberg: I’d love for folks to check out crafted, crafted. fm is where you can find the podcast. You can search for it in the podcast apps. There are sadly more podcasts called crafted that you will find, , than there were when I first launched the show two years ago. That’s kind of annoying.
[00:48:35] Dan Blumberg: So look for my face, which is on the cover art right now. Dan Blumberg is my name. but the show is about great products and the people who make them. And I’ve interviewed lots of founders and makers and we get into the weeds of what it takes to build great software. So, uh, that’d be the one thing that I would plug.
[00:48:51] Dan Blumberg: yeah. And I thank you guys so much for, for having me. I really enjoyed this.
[00:48:55] Chuck Carpenter: sure. Thanks. Thanks for coming on.
[00:48:57] Chuck Carpenter: Long time in the making.
[00:48:58] Dan Blumberg: Yeah.
[00:48:59] Robbie Wagner: [00:49:00] Yeah. Scheduling is hard, but all right. Thanks everyone for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe and we will catch you next time.
[00:49:06] Chuck Carpenter: Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop,
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