Whiskey Web and Whatnot

A whiskey fueled fireside chat with your favorite web developers.


135: From React Miami to Fly Fishing: Diving Deep with ThePrimeagen and Friends

Show Notes

This episode uniquely blends a variety of discussions, ranging from Prime Barrel whiskey tastings with RobbieTheWagner, Charles "the Plumber" Carpenter, and ThePrimeagen, to in-depth explorations of tech, fitness, and lifestyle optimization.

The hosts share personal anecdotes, humor, and insights across topics like the appeal of living in Bozeman, Montana, web development complexities, and the importance of simplicity in daily routines. Highlights include a special whiskey tasting session, examining brands like Angel's Envy and New England Barrel Company, and engaging thoughts on the health aspects of nicotine, exercise-induced cortisol production, and the impact of digital interactions on social well-being.

The dialogue encapsulates a spirited debate on achieving a productive work-life balance, the influence of tech and social media, alongside a passion for whiskey appreciation.

Key Takeaways

  • [00:47] - Diving into ThePrimeagen's Whiskey Selection
  • [01:20] - First Taste: Angel's Envy Bourbon Review
  • [11:24] - Exploring the Nashville Rye: Smashville
  • [26:19] - Wilderness Trail Tasting: Memories and Pencils
  • [30:49] - Tech Talk: The Simplicity of Django and Go
  • [39:07] - New England Whiskey: A Go Team's Happiness
  • [40:40] - Exploring New England Barrel Company's Bourbon
  • [40:56] - The Intricacies of Blood Orange in Whiskey
  • [42:50] - Travel Tales and Montana Adventures
  • [44:15] - The Art of Fly Fishing and Secret Spots
  • [48:22] - Whiskey Tasting Notes and Preferences
  • [50:07] - React and Tech Twitter: A Candid Discussion
  • [56:01] - The Whiskey Selection Process: Final Thoughts
  • [01:07:37] - Lifestyle Choices: Workout Clothes and Minimalism
  • [01:12:40] - Unveiling the Best Barrel Picks
  • [01:13:17] - Pre-React Miami Party Plans and Travel Woes
  • [01:14:35] - The Evolution of Tech Influence and Twitter Culture
  • [01:16:32] - Reflecting on the Future of Tech Twitter and Content Creation
  • [01:30:50] - The Prime Barrel Whiskey Tasting: A Deep Dive
  • [01:45:57] - A Unique House Purchase Story
  • [01:49:56] - Wrapping Up with Primeagen's Recommendations


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React Miami

We'll be at React Miami hitting the streets and getting answers from the people on hard hitting questions like "is Tailwind cool?". Will we see you there? If you haven't gotten tickets yet, you can go to https://www.reactmiami.com/ and use code WhiskeyWebMiami for $50 off your ticket.

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[00:00:05] Robbie: what's going on everybody? Welcome to Whiskey Web and Whatnot with your hosts RobbieTheWagner and Charles "the Plumber" Carpenter.

[00:00:14] ThePrimeagen: Great nicknames.

[00:00:17] Chuck: I, know, am I, I'm one of the Mario brothers actually. I'm Charles Mario.

[00:00:23] Robbie: Well,

you, uh, you said you do all the plumbing in our last episode because it was like, it's your favorite podcast about plumbing and you're like, or no about carpentry because you're carpenter and you're like, Oh, I do all the plumbing or I don't know, fuck it

[00:00:34] Chuck: How did you fuck up your own joke in the first 30 seconds? anyway.

here we go.

[00:00:40] ThePrimeagen: even explaining to himself why it's funny at this point. Like, well, actually, if you really think about it,

[00:00:44] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:00:45] Chuck: No, you get it. Why? No, I didn't.

[00:00:47] Robbie: Yeah, what is important is we have the Primeagen here and we are doing a special prime barrel Primeagen Whiskey web and whatnot barrel pick today. So we have five whiskeys [00:01:00] and we're gonna drink all of those and See

[00:01:04] Chuck: pick one that we would like to endorse and say, this is the one we like. That's, that's it. We're taking three different palettes. And five different whiskeys, thanks to the Prime barrel, and we'll see what we like. Or don't. Maybe they all suck. I don't know, we'll find out. On That note we will start with the first one, let's see here.

Okay, we're gonna go with the Angel's Envy bourbon. It's the Devil's

[00:01:29] Robbie: on the list

[00:01:30] Chuck: It's not, it's not first on the list but it's the lowest proof.

[00:01:34] Robbie: You made the list out of order? Come on. Okay.

[00:01:38] Chuck: Prime doesn't even see the list.

[00:01:41] Robbie: No, I know. Alright, I got Angel's Envy. Let's do it.

[00:01:43] Chuck: Angel's I'm over here. Radix sorting these

[00:01:45] ThePrimeagen: things now. Now look at this. I'm completely out of. Sorry. This. is finished in port wine barrels and is a 108 proof expression. In a little plastic bottle.

How much am I required to [00:02:00] drink?

[00:02:00] Chuck: As little or as much as you want. You know, it doesn't take a ton


[00:02:03] ThePrimeagen: Cause I would like to also be able to be a father tonight.

[00:02:08] Chuck: You might make another one, you keep,

[00:02:10] Robbie: Yeah,

I'm Don't, undersell the power of whiskey.

[00:02:17] ThePrimeagen: I, by the way, I didn't have any whiskey glasses for this many. That could fit my hand in one carry. So I grabbed a bunch of what appears to be little chepenya glasses.

[00:02:25] Chuck: like it. Go with that. I just brought some water to, like, rinse him out, kind of, on the


[00:02:29] Robbie: not See, I didn't know if that was like kosher or not. So that's why I brought five. Of these, that could just all fit, like, one for every finger, rare.

[00:02:37] Chuck: it. I love it. I love also that you are under the, the guise of false expertise happening on this. Just because we drink a lot doesn't mean we know a lot.

[00:02:47] Robbie: Smells like blueberries. Hmm.

[00:02:52] Chuck: smell to it. I don't, I didn't narrow it down to blueberries, but I can tell this is going to be, this is going to be [00:03:00] this is going to be a burner. a little


[00:03:02] ThePrimeagen: I, I didn't get any burn, well I mean I did put some ice cubes in mine, but I didn't get any burn.

It was extremely enjoyable, I, I could, I could actually, I could sip on this one for sure. I'm not like a big whiskey guy, so for when I say I could sip on it, that's like giving it a, I mean I'm like nine out of nine legs on an octopus.

[00:03:18] Chuck: Which is possible in


[00:03:21] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, I regenerate more. Yes! Nice!

[00:03:24] Chuck: There you

[00:03:24] ThePrimeagen: That's a callback, Oh Yeah. Don't call it a callback. That's a nerd joke

[00:03:30] Robbie: Yeah. This kind of tastes like toffee to me.

[00:03:34] Chuck: yes! There you go! I was like, something almost like, like um, creme brulee caramelized sugar kind of thing, but no, toffee. Toffee sounds about right.

With a little bit of like nutmeg in the finish and then a little bit of like maybe nuttiness even like a light nutty Not even quite woody, but like nutty in the finish. I feel like this is a fairly standard expression for Angels Envy They just did a [00:04:00] single barrel pick. So prime Yeah. I don't know.


like a

[00:04:03] Robbie: a little bit better. Yeah,

[00:04:06] Chuck: but this is better.

[00:04:08] Robbie: Yeah. I think it's a little better than. Well, we did we've done a barrel pick of it before and then also The normal one and I think this is the best one of the three so far in my opinion Yeah,

[00:04:22] Chuck: this Yeah, you want to you want to rate it?

Should we rate it? Should we? Yeah, Well, we hadn't quite, determined the format here, but I'm gonna,

[00:04:30] Robbie: Yeah, or do we want to drink them all and then pick a Just pick a favorite


[00:04:37] ThePrimeagen: Okay well my only, my only problem is I just have to remember why I like this one. Can we, can we have a moment, like

just, let the mouth kind of clear out. Is there like a preferred in between drink betwixt your whisky?

[00:04:51] Chuck: I like to do like a

light effervescence. So loquat, like in a lime or a lemon, works for me. Yeah, exactly. I

[00:04:59] Robbie: we have three [00:05:00] different brands of bubbly water

[00:05:01] Chuck: a lot of people will do things like crackers, like a water

cracker, or like even a saltine, a little salt can like, or pretzels, That can kind of That does sound really nice. That does sound really nice. I should have done that. I didn't, I didn't do

I didn't even do that either. I just kind of, yeah, I went winging it. Snacks. I don't keep a lot of snacks in my shed. I don't know, from the last time that we talked, if you're aware of my working situation. It has drastically improved the visuals over the last couple of months. But like, Did you, did you take my approach of, of going, going away from the main house and being able to be like, just,

Yes, so my kids have a playhouse, or had, because I stole it, I kicked them out, and then I put some rugs in here, and, you know, did some lighting stuff, and then after a little bit of time, starting to get a lot of noise, So I got some of those like noise cancelling blankets, and like a little divider behind me.

I have some foam. yeah, I mixed it up, I have some foam, and some [00:06:00] blankets, but the blankets are really mobile, I'm not, I don't know how long I'm going to be in here, oh yeah, for sure. But I don't,

[00:06:05] ThePrimeagen: lot of

foam. love that.

foamed out all the way on that side, that side, all the way over

[00:06:12] Chuck: Oh Yeah, that's, that's like the dream. I'm Yeah, I even have it on the ceiling above me, so I, you know, it just helps not.

I am, I don't know how long I'm going to be here. Like, we are going to sell our house, and then go to a rental situation for a year, and then go to Europe. Yeah, yeah. So, I can't

[00:06:33] ThePrimeagen: Okay, can I ask you this? Okay, so so I'm not a financial plan or anything, but I'm, I'm decent at real estate. Are you sure you want to make some of those decisions? You know, I'm just throwing it out there that by the time there's there's only two outcomes in the next, I'd say six

years coming back to America, is that real estate is going to be effectively unobtainium that avatars will guard, or it's going to be the whole thing is crashed and everything's free [00:07:00] real estate.

And so my let, my bet is that it's going to be, it's, if it does crash, it will crash momentarily in places like Black Rock, Open Door, all these places are going to pick them up like massively right now, because right now they control like one to 2 percent of all home sales right

now. So they can, they actually already have a large, yeah, they, especially in Phoenix, Phoenix, it's like 10%.

They have like a really large influence on the actual local market. And I specifically Phoenix and Scottsdale's Gilbert area, I do not foresee changes in their, their sales. In that one easily because you've already hit like a pretty big downturn to begin with and so now you've hit like unless if there's a massive increase in, in, in interest, like your values been going up, it's just remained down and it's managed to just hold its place, which means the moment interest goes up, it's, you know, I always worry about giving up real estate.

So I, I have a couple of houses and I just do not give them up because I know that I think, I think we'll be a rent only country within the next like 20

[00:07:55] Chuck: I don't know, that's totally possible. I will say, and I'm happy to get into details with you, like [00:08:00] Offline in particular, but but basically, we will still hold property, selling


one, and we will hold it debt free and there's a


of, fantastic. Yeah.

[00:08:12] ThePrimeagen: Awesome. so those

[00:08:13] Chuck: things,

[00:08:13] ThePrimeagen: Hold something because you know, like for me, it's just like, I, I will do the best I can not to give up yeah. housing for now.

Right. I mean, there are always a situation where I don't foresee coming and I have to sell things and you know, that's the life everybody has to live and you know, sickness, whatever.

[00:08:29] Chuck: yeah, yeah, life can surprise you for sure, and for this, So for the same reasons, life can surprise you, and this is just like something we've wanted to do for a long time, like live abroad, especially with the kids are a particular age, it's just like, it just makes sense for a lot of reasons, like opportunity allows it now, so like, jump through that. window, and when we come back, who knows where, kind of thing.

We may not come back here too, so That's the other side of things.

[00:08:55] ThePrimeagen: Yeah.

[00:08:56] Robbie: Yeah, you can live in my basement if you need to chuck

[00:08:58] Chuck: Mm hmm.

This [00:09:00] is true, Wagners have a compound, so I've kind of like, eh, I can crash with someone else who like, I, I know Primes have a compound too,

so you

[00:09:11] ThePrimeagen: Yeah. you wouldn't even see me.

a little bit of space.

[00:09:15] Chuck: So anyway gosh, I digress, I

completely, else has a lot of space?

[00:09:22] Robbie: You want to tell

us? thought Nashville is kind of,

[00:09:27] ThePrimeagen: Is being really taken over right now. Like, last time I checked, like, four years ago, the median house price was like three something and now it's four something. I was keeping my eye on the market because I was actually thinking about buying some long term rental.

property there because I was like, this is going to be a place that's going to explode over the next 10 years. And if you can hold anything for any amount of time, you're going to make a lot of money.

[00:09:44] Robbie: Yeah,

I think it already exploded. It's

like, it's

hard to

[00:09:47] ThePrimeagen: I wouldn't buy now,

but I would have bought that.

You probably still good idea to buy now, but I mean, I can't like I'm priced out of that market.


[00:09:55] Chuck: Yeah, well, it happens to the best of us. All right, should we move on to the next?

[00:09:59] ThePrimeagen: [00:10:00] sorry. I'm really into,

[00:10:01] Chuck: No, and I'm happy to

continue this, this, this conversation. I


[00:10:05] ThePrimeagen: non coding side of prime, which is like real estate is super

cool. It's just stuff. It's such a super cool thing. I'll tell you some fun stories here in a

[00:10:12] Chuck: Yeah, that's funny because, like, on my list of things to potentially talk about, and of course, you know, this goes wherever it goes, that's the other side of it, is, like, interests outside of This tech world and that kind of stuff too.

[00:10:24] ThePrimeagen: I'm largely just a tech geek.

[00:10:26] Chuck: You're not

that big.

[00:10:28] ThePrimeagen: I

[00:10:28] Chuck: don't care how many bench presses you can do, you're not that big.

[00:10:31] ThePrimeagen: Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I suffer under the weight of my desire to just type on a computer. Alright, what's the next one? You guys are both pouring something in which I don't even know the

[00:10:40] Chuck: That's okay,

I'll tell you. Barrel Company, right? Or is

[00:10:43] Robbie: it not? Damn it. That's why I

[00:10:46] Chuck: up?

[00:10:47] Robbie: Well, I poured the Nashville

[00:10:48] Chuck: Well then we'll just go to Nashville.

it Let's do Nashville. I forgot

get you there. You jumped to 115. That's why I put them in order in front of me, you know? Or

[00:10:59] Robbie: but

why [00:11:00] wouldn't you

put the

notes in order, I have to

[00:11:02] Chuck: Yeah, I will tell you it's not a secret.

So, but yeah, it would have been Wilderness, then New England, then Nashville,

[00:11:09] Robbie: All right, hold on, let me do the rest of them. Wilderness, New England, Starlight.

Okay. we can make this work.

All right. So now I got the other ones in order. Sorry.

[00:11:19] Chuck: See what I have to work with here, you know? Okay, so this is a Nashville rye. It's called Smashville. Cause sometimes their barrel picks, they like to name them. It's a single barrel, straight rye whiskey. Six years old, 115. 88 proof. So it's gonna be a hot one.

[00:11:40] Robbie: Smells like a cinnamon broom.

[00:11:42] Chuck: Like uh, what was that cinnamon gum? Kinda smells like that


gum. Big Red, yes!

Kiss a little longer, last a little longer. I don't know why that's a thing. You remember that commercial? I

[00:11:57] ThePrimeagen: like, I can almost hear it

[00:11:58] Chuck: Longer with big [00:12:00] red that big red freshness last right through it

[00:12:04] ThePrimeagen: Oh, I remember this! Yeah!

[00:12:05] Chuck: Okay, so there you go. This is my superpower

[00:12:08] ThePrimeagen: goodness, this

[00:12:09] Chuck: Pop culture things from like the 80s and 90s in particular like yes latchkey kid this is

what happened.

[00:12:18] ThePrimeagen: I think I was a latchkey kid too, during that time. A lot of, a lot of beastie boys,

[00:12:23] Chuck: yeah yes for sure

[00:12:26] ThePrimeagen: oh man,

[00:12:27] Chuck: videos all the time.


[00:12:29] ThePrimeagen: against the machine. I live, I mean, I grew up raging against the machine. I think that's why I want to constantly go against the grain, is that. But then, I think it stopped going against the grain and realizing that I was just, I'm just simply right.

That's it. And now I'm no longer thinking I'm going against the grain. I now think I'm just actually right. And web dev is fundamentally wrong. I know this is, we're like hot taking really

[00:12:54] Chuck: Well that's okay though, because I think that like, I mean, is WebDev fundamentally wrong? Or just the loudest [00:13:00] voices are fundamentally wrong? Because I,

think that like, the culture within Tech Twitter versus like, what is happening in the world 80 percent of other places where people are just doing their job and like things are working fine In those scenarios are like is also just fine too, right?

Like they're not wrong They're just like maybe it's not sexy or interesting.

[00:13:21] Robbie: Yeah. I would

say, That's a fair take.

I would say everyone that I've ever worked with has never consumed tech Twitter or like most of them haven't done open source work. Like they haven't done anything and they just, they do their work and they're like blissfully unaware of like, arguments that happen on the internet.


[00:13:39] Chuck: this has a musty flavor to it almost

like okay a little Yeah, a little like, orangey, no, like, okay, you know, lemon pledge, like, when you spray that and you clean wood, you're not supposed to use it anymore, I don't think, but and then, like, that smell, that's what

[00:13:56] Robbie: It does kind of taste like that

[00:13:58] Chuck: kind of tastes like that.

[00:13:59] Robbie: and not in a [00:14:00] good way

[00:14:00] ThePrimeagen: that.

[00:14:00] Chuck: Yeah, I don't Yeah if I like it.

[00:14:03] Robbie: Yeah, sorry nashville

[00:14:05] Chuck: This


[00:14:07] ThePrimeagen: Alright, hold on. Back to my hot take. I'm gonna,

let me finish it out. Okay, this is what I'm gonna finish out. Is that, I've been doing a lot of soul searching. And so like for a long time, I I like to call it type masturbation, where I really like to really be very expressive with my types, right? So in TypeScript, to try to be as expressive

as possible to solve every possible situation.

There's a great post, Jamin does, if you're familiar with React Native Dev, Jamin. Anyways, great guy. He does this thing where he's like, how do I, how do I say I only accept numbers between zero and 100 and, you know, I don't want to have to literally be like zero or one or two or three or four or five, you know, he's like, how do I do this?

And there's a bunch of different solutions and you can get pretty tricky with a TypeScript and it, it like totally, it totally does work and you can do that. But my, my general problem with all this, and it's kind of like what I was realizing is that everything, it [00:15:00] only, it takes the greatest engineers to engineer a mess.

And I feel like so much of web dev can kind of be categorized like that, where everything is so engineered, you get the world's greatest auto complete, but at like the cost of so much and so I see creeping in a lot of projects and all that. And what I realized is that I've now kind of swung full circle from rust and all these things to just use go.

It's not sexy. It's not great. It's fast. It's way faster than JavaScript and it's fractionally slower than Rust. Whatever. Type system, super boring, but you can like do anything in a few lines of code. Errors as values. You know where everything breaks. You don't get surprised. Hey, you're at only 99 percent uptime because you forgot about this one edge case.

Right? Like it just, it, you, you have to handle things. And then lastly. HTMX, right? Just try to drive most of your logic to the server, keep things simple. And when you need to actually write some real interactivity, use the library or read it yourself and just make it go. [00:16:00] You can even use react if you really, really want to, but I just realized like how much simpler life is just not doing as much as I used to.

Cause I mean, like 2016, I was react fan boy, top down rendering, do one way data flow, all this kind of stuff. Redux, get it all done. And then like, I've completely for like the last effectively eight years have just kept getting further. and further from that. And now I feel like I've hit like the full grug, where it's just like, give me it as simple as possible.

Because I'm going to write the whole thing. Transcripts real

[00:16:29] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:16:30] ThePrimeagen: gonna be real easy to


[00:16:32] Robbie: Yeah, yeah, I think going

back to


is like is is really like chuck and I were talking about this for like a minute before we started here about like you know, learning HTML and leveraging like everything that's built into it instead of reaching for like JavaScript for everything. And like, you know, knowing all the fundamentals using tools that have like been battle tested and like, you know, they don't have to be the sexiest newest thing, just like build stuff.

[00:17:00] Like,

you know, everybody fights over what's the sexiest newest thing. And like, how do I use it? And like optimize to get like one millisecond faster on this. Like that probably doesn't matter. Like You want it to be fast, obviously, but like you don't need to spend a year rewriting it to get like 20 milliseconds better speed

[00:17:16] Chuck: Yeah.

And I, I kind of wonder conversely to a, to a degree is like creating complex, okay. So like, I remember early 2000s we were fighting for a separation of concerns and like semantic web and things like that. And you know, so much business logic was server rendered and, there was kind of like a In a way, kind of like a snubbing of the nose from folks working on APIs or working in, you know, real languages like python or whatever else of like, Oh, you're just doing like pretty interfaces up there.

And I think that that in some ways probably got. To the right [00:18:00] super smart people where they were like hold my Funyuns and they fucking just showed it They were like I know just as much as you in fact I'm gonna like really and they probably were solving some problems right like compute was more expensive You were like server farms and like offloading some of that to the client, which is like not my computer I get to use your processing power.

Maybe there were some reasons there definitely were some things that were solved there to a degree But, that's not really where we are now. And, and then my second point around that was like, people showing how smart they were, but they were also accelerating their career paths in some ways, of saying like, look at everything I'm making as a front end engineer.

I, I should be making the same money as the backend engineer. I'm going to fight and say I'm doing very serious important things in our interfaces. I want to be a senior engineer in five years or less. Like, all of those things are realities that [00:19:00] started to happen in the marketplace for jobs. And I wonder, like, the intersect of those two things.

The increased complexity and management of things being more challenging. And. Like demand and career acceleration. I don't know it's all like hypothetical, but maybe

[00:19:19] ThePrimeagen: I don't think you're far off. I think there's a lot of things to that. That's probably true. I do think that that weird disdain of back end versus front end has always been silly, because at the end of the day, we're all just solving problems. And back end problems are just simply more apparent. As in, like, it's not hard to go, oh, you have to run that you have to run a database on five computers.

That's hard. I have no idea how that works. Where it's like, oh, you have to you have to like render stuff nicely and do all these things, you know, how hard is it to move a box across the screen? And I know those are both like very trivial examples. But there's a lot of I mean, then obviously, the problem comes down to that you start having these people that are extremely talented.

that can obviously solve anything. And they're solving it in ways in which if we had more communication [00:20:00] may have saved a lot of just time and effort, because I don't see how replicating the entire server state was ever a good idea on the client. And I don't see how not having any state is also not a good idea.

I'm sure there's there's some level somewhere that makes perfect sense. And we've just like, it's like the cultural pendulum swings. You know, you have like extreme conservatism, extreme liberalism, all just going back and forth. We just have extreme back end and extreme front end going back and forth. And I'm sure we're kind of, we're in the process of a swing from extreme front end to something.

And it's gonna be interesting where it swings to, because maybe it'll be dampened by this, you know, React server components. People realizing, okay, this is a nice place to have kind of a client and server intermix. Like, let's try to figure out how to Take like take advantage of that and so I I I'm hoping you know that it ends well But I think that at the end of the day what mostly happens is that most companies hold on to the bag of the [00:21:00] last 10 years of conference driven technology

[00:21:03] Chuck: conference

[00:21:04] ThePrimeagen: people wanting to get, yeah, people wanting to get promotions.

And so they have company like right now, Netflix, there's, there's class components, still there's class components with the legacy version, class components with the new version. There's functional components. There's higher order components. We have, we have higher order components for days, right? Like there's like, there's everything that you can imagine.

And so it's like, this exists fundamentally. People wanted to push that this was the greatest way to manage state and people believed in this, you know, this thing. And so now we've been slaying dragons. And what happens when you slay dragons for 10 years, you have an entire backlog of dead dragons that are now your application, right?

Like, that's just like what happened, unfortunately.

And so we have,

[00:21:45] Robbie: one in there,

[00:21:46] ThePrimeagen: yeah, we still use Falcor. I quit deving on Falcor almost eight years ago, seven years ago, we still use Falcor to some level.

[00:21:53] Chuck: Right. So.

[00:21:55] ThePrimeagen: Like, think about that, like that's crazy, right? Like, that's crazy that that can exist. But it does, [00:22:00] of course it does.

And so every one of these decisions, all these sexy decisions result in somebody's full time job or a group of people's Mm hmm. maintaining that legacy idea.

[00:22:09] Chuck: because it's funny because the, like, purveyors of said idea that sold a bunch of people, like, it's very attached to individuals, and then they move on. And then what happens, right? Next group of people come in, and they either have to deal with said legacy decision, legacy being probably within just a few years, or they have their own agenda, Yeah, they always rewrite it. There's never someone that comes in and is like, you know, what

Yeah, this works.

[00:22:35] Robbie: that legacy shit Let's keep doing that

[00:22:38] Chuck: See, this is, this is what I like about legacy web frameworks. Because like, you come in and you're like, Oh, you guys are on Django? I love Django. I know how that works. And then, you just follow the path. The


[00:22:52] ThePrimeagen: Django's been Django ing since before I, before React. Like, it's been around for a long, long time. I was using Django [00:23:00] previous job, you know, like 11 years Yeah. Yep, Django at Nat Geo when I came on board and our API was Django and we were doing what were they like, Jinja templates

[00:23:12] Chuck: with

[00:23:12] ThePrimeagen: Oh yeah,

[00:23:13] Robbie: hmm.

[00:23:13] Chuck: jQuery in them



we kind of Jinja 2, just just Jinja and you know, that was like a happy path and So it is interesting to say because like yeah, you could spin up. I mean Django and it's interesting because they pick and choose, too.

So Django, when you set up a local instance, starts with MySQLite, too. So you, yes! Squealite. Squirrellite. Yes! So, you get a nice, like, happy, like developer experience to start. They have a ton of articles. They've been on the Alpine HTMX train for a while.

So they have

plenty, Pype, Django's like all about it and they have a really great setup for it. And honestly, there's so many people coming out talking [00:24:00] about how they're, they're just slashing like tens of thousands of lines of code. Just doing that. And they're just like, we don't have to think about it anymore.

[00:24:08] ThePrimeagen: It's super duper simple. And the stuff that we want to repeat, we just do this. Like these little knit, these ginger components. I don't know how they work, but they're web components that are all packaged nicely together. And you just say, here's my JavaScript. Here's my this and this, and it just makes a nice little thing for you.

And it just works. I'm like shocked at how cool it looks. I want, it almost makes me want to write Python.

[00:24:27] Chuck: Almost.

It gets you almost



it's not Go, but, you know. I do think that's a nice, happy world to be in. If you're not, like, title chasing or whatever else is going on, you can make a lot of great stuff with that, right? It's got a nice ORM. It's got Auth. I mean, what's the

[00:24:46] Robbie: Yeah. I


jobs are always the problem. Like you gotta do whatever you gotta do to get a job. So if people are hiring for that, then cool. But if not got to do whatever they, what the, whatever tech stack they're doing.

[00:24:59] ThePrimeagen: [00:25:00] It's kind of interesting that you say that I'm going to throw something out that that's kind of interesting here. We'll, we'll, we'll move on to the next one. I'll let you say your thing. And I got, I got, I, I

[00:25:06] Chuck: We have to one.

[00:25:07] ThePrimeagen: of the most scorching philosophical talk of all time

coming up next.

[00:25:11] Chuck: Uh, why are we rating? I thought we were rating at the end. You

we started rating the

first No, we did not rate the first

[00:25:17] ThePrimeagen: by saying nine,

[00:25:18] Chuck: no? Okay.

[00:25:19] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, we're

[00:25:20] Robbie: weren't going to rate any of


[00:25:21] ThePrimeagen: Until the


[00:25:22] Robbie: end.

[00:25:23] Chuck: Okay. We can't agree on anything.

[00:25:25] ThePrimeagen: Robbie and I have been on the same page.

[00:25:28] Chuck: I took him a little micro sleep and

uh, all of them in, in the correct order now and I am ready to

[00:25:33] Robbie: go. going to wilderness.

[00:25:35] Chuck: Okay.

[00:25:35] ThePrimeagen: can totally tell that that Wagner over here is off. Oh, not Wagner, sorry. Oh my goodness, I got the wrong one. You, you can totally tell Charles, you're, you're definitely

using Redux right now because like your state throw up

[00:25:50] Chuck: Yeah. No. the a little bit. No.

Don't talk about Rita. You know, at least it's not a saga or a thunk. Yeah. But it could be worse.


[00:25:59] ThePrimeagen: Hey, [00:26:00] what you don't like global buses?

Actually, I actually do love global I'm like a huge proponent of global buses, but it's funny because everyone's like global is the worst. Here's RADOX It's just like damn man. You just made a global bus.

[00:26:13] Robbie: Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:15] Chuck: Yeah, a bunch of people that don't know what they're talking about. Okay wilderness. Wilderness

trail. smells like an old trunk of clothes that have been eaten by moths.

Right, else getting that? Ha ha ha mothball y.

[00:26:30] ThePrimeagen: this time This is the first time you've described something that I've actually been able to like follow you on


rest, I'm like, you guys are like talking about like, like, dude, just strands of specific beef Hmm. Yeah. what they're talking about.

[00:26:42] Chuck: It's actually Biltong. Dax put

me on the path. a little bit like the ocean as well.

Okay so this one is the Wilderness Trail, where the high rye ed things are. So, they Like to come up with clever stickers and names for the cast strength. Single barrel. It is a bourbon. It is [00:27:00] 110. 86 proof. It's a high rye mash bill. I don't have the specifics, but it's a 64 24 12.

So I gotta say that it's probably 64 corn, 24 rye. If it's a bourbon, it has to be at least 51%. Glug, glug, glug. Scotchy, scotch, scotch.

[00:27:18] Robbie: So I have a very weird Like, it doesn't really taste like this, but it evokes a memory of, what are they called? Pogs? The like, circle things you would like,

flick and,

[00:27:30] ThePrimeagen: pogs, you ignorant slut? Of course they

[00:27:32] Robbie: yeah,

[00:27:32] ThePrimeagen: and slammers.

[00:27:33] Robbie: yeah, they, they smell like, like going to a store that sold those, and like, I don't know, the bin of new Pogs, like, it smells

like, or

tastes like that, yeah. for him to get those or something, but like yeah.

I don't know why it just my brain like regressed all the way back to whatever year that was

[00:27:54] Chuck: yeah, that's what, that's what tastes taste are associated with memory and the memory sometimes [00:28:00] is like a flavor note, but sometimes it's something else, right?

[00:28:05] Robbie: Yeah, this one is certainly better than the pledge one i'll give it that

[00:28:11] Chuck: It's pretty mild though. I don't know if that's because I'm coming off a one 15 proof, but it has a light Cola flavor for me and a

[00:28:20] Robbie: know This one's enjoyable. It's not as enjoyable as still Angels. That'd be. Whatever. The first one was angels envy


[00:28:29] ThePrimeagen: So

I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you a weird one that I taste.

[00:28:31] Chuck: Please.

[00:28:32] ThePrimeagen: Has anyone ever chewed on a number two pencil?

[00:28:35] Chuck: Yes. Oh,


Yes! slight

I actually,

[00:28:41] Robbie: Yeah the pencil

[00:28:42] ThePrimeagen: when I do it. I get this memory of that. and I think what you say is more accurate actually.

[00:28:47] Chuck: That's

funny. like, there's something shockingly nostalgic about drinking this

[00:28:51] ThePrimeagen: one. Wilderness Trail. It's Wow.

[00:28:55] Robbie: You're just a kid at school with your pencils and your pogs and like everything about [00:29:00] that memory.

[00:29:00] Chuck: Pencil Case.


[00:29:02] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:29:03] Chuck: or Trapper Keeper. Did you get

[00:29:06] Robbie: Hmm.

[00:29:07] Chuck: annual

Trapper Keeper? Kelly Vaughn's trapper keeper thing that she posted?

mm mm.

[00:29:14] Robbie: She went to some bar that was like nineties themed and they gave you like a trapper keeper. I don't know if it was like the menu or what, but That's, I live here now.

[00:29:22] Chuck: that's a strong move. I'll have to look that up. I did not see that. I think there's probably other arguments I saw, you know, how the Twitter algorithm kind of like, you know, it just kind of in waves depending on what you look at. And, you know, I obviously

also use it. like someone, you can say, I want to see all their posts. So I guess you don't really like Kelly.

I don't really like anyone including myself, so it's a lot of self hatred. No, but I I, I'm, I'm in a mode of seeing a lot of soccer stuff right now, because it's been a tumultuous couple of weeks for Manchester United. So there is that.

[00:29:57] ThePrimeagen: I got two things for you. Can I, can I just, can I just back to back [00:30:00] hot takes really quickly?

[00:30:01] Chuck: You may, whatever. This is, we're


rolling through.

[00:30:03] ThePrimeagen: one, I think if you follow zero people on Twitter, you're a doofus. Number two,

[00:30:07] Chuck: follow people.

[00:30:09] ThePrimeagen: I know, I'm just saying there's people that have tech accounts that follow nobody.

[00:30:13] Chuck: Mm

[00:30:13] ThePrimeagen: And I feel like it's a try hard because you're interacting with people.

I see you tweeting. I see you responding.

I think you're being a try hard. I think you're just being a try hard and I don't like it. Right? Because who cares? Who cares if you're following people, right? It doesn't really matter about that. Anyways, number two, back to the Django thing. Remember, I told you to scorch earth take, you know, it's funny, when you go and ask people what they work on, you will often hear Python Django, right?

Like this is a pretty common thing. Yet, I don't see like a ton of job openings. Which makes me think of something. And when you said, this is kind of sparked a thing in my head. What if the reason why you don't see a lot of job openings and yet somehow you always run into people writing Python and Django is that it fundamentally takes significantly less [00:31:00] engineers to make the same site because it is truly, drastically simpler.

[00:31:04] Robbie: Oh, I think that's correct.

[00:31:07] ThePrimeagen: It's just, it's, onto something.

[00:31:09] Chuck: I think

[00:31:09] ThePrimeagen: I'm just saying that for whatever reason, every time I run into someone, they're always making cool stuff and they're always iterating on features and actually going like decently fast.

Yet they don't seem to be bogged down with, you know, cause typically if you've ever worked on any large scale software I'm talking a million plus lines of code You'll find that features kind of grow like time it takes is like two to the N Like within a couple years you are kind of forced to rewrite because you just can no longer keep on going at least that's been My experience in every JavaScript application I've ever worked on has been a rewrite within like eight years of it existing I've just never been able to go And I'm being generous here, I'm saying 8 years is the longest one I've ever seen, and that's the current TVUI one, which I'm very impressed by.

But I also heard a phrase today, someone said they had no idea how something was happening. And so like, that's, you know, like, and they were core developing the feature and they [00:32:00] didn't know how it exactly worked. And so like, that's, you know, like, that's real, like, that, that happens at some point within applications.

But I,

But Python and this Django and maybe HTMX, maybe, you know, maybe you can make me into a Python boy after all. I just, I just love this idea that it is actually so simple.

[00:32:17] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:32:17] ThePrimeagen: That it

[00:32:18] Robbie: Well,

[00:32:19] Chuck: You can have your preference,

[00:32:20] Robbie: yeah.

[00:32:20] Chuck: can have what works, right? And I think there's something with that. Like,

[00:32:24] Robbie: you should always learn both, like knowing

[00:32:27] ThePrimeagen: That's a fair point. and some of the thing that always works is good for you. Yeah.

I do have this really strong thing where I say, You should always be learning things. And there's always gonna be the advantage of knowing your tool versus the right tool for the job. It's why I hate that phrase, the right tool for the job. No one picks the right tool for the job. They pick the job, they pick the tool in which gives them the best efficiency, which is always the tool they just have been using.

And so there's like this, this momentum that kind of keeps people stuck in a rut, where whatever they started getting [00:33:00] good with, they, they refuse to jump out of. And then they kind of get into this like weird, like, well, it's the right tool for the job because I can really build it. And you're like, but is it the

[00:33:08] Robbie: Yeah, is

[00:33:09] Chuck: But,

[00:33:09] ThePrimeagen: that it's right for

[00:33:10] Chuck: there's.

[00:33:10] Robbie: you? Yeah.

[00:33:11] Chuck: There is decision fatigue to a degree. I can actually speak personally to exactly what you're saying, because I'm working on a thing, and based on like open source stuff Robby and I had worked on for a long time, and I found myself in that exact place. It was like, I went down a, path on some like new hotness that I'd come across, and it was like really kind of fun to work with, but then I just kept running into like, well it's news, and then you have this, you have this, you have this.

I just kept running into a couple of problems there. So I was like, you know, fuck all this. I want, I want a one and done kind of thing and started playing with Redwood JS and Django. And like Django was like, I spent a weekend kind of playing with both of those things and Django was like, I remember how fun this was and maybe I kind of want to do this again But then there Was like the learning curve on top of that made me [00:34:00] doubt myself a little bit So I went with redwood because it's like stuff i'd been using over the last five plus years It's not the sexiest stuff, but it's not the worst stuff And it's kind of battle tested and it comes with a lot out of the box in the same way The django does so I was like fuck it.

Let's go this path and I you know had like Some, some folks around me were saying like, listen, you know, just let's, let's get something going and worst case scenario, if you want to trash that and go the other direction later. Great. We'll do that. So I was like, cool, I'm going to do that. So I, I think I fell into that exactly is have been writing like tons of, you know, node and TypeScript and all of that and GraphQL and whatever else GraphQL is not cool anymore because you know, it's a, it's pigeonholed and don't think that's necessarily wrong, Was it ever cool?

[00:34:45] ThePrimeagen: it was

cool. As one who wrote Falcor, I remember being in their office before they even released GraphQL talking about some of their fetching patterns. They did a lot of super, super

[00:34:54] Chuck: And it was great for their use case. Right. So, you know, whatever, it's not a panacea to everything, but [00:35:00] again, it was just like, well, here's what's familiar and here's how I can go. And so I fell into that same exact thing is that, you know, recency syndrome in that, and then somebody said, there's no right tool for the job.

Let's just go do a job

[00:35:13] ThePrimeagen: Most, most jobs, there's no right tool. Like when you're serving like a static site of some sort or a lightly interactive site, they're just, reality check, there is no right tool. There really isn't because you're not doing anything fantastic. If you're building like a pretty complex app, like there does come a point where certain languages and certain things just make things easier.

Like if I'm writing a game, like at some point it's like, if I'm writing a triple a game and let's say I'm trying for whatever reason, I want to have like the top line graphics possible and all that, you know, you probably should just use unreal engine, right? Like if I want the greatest and the greatest, like I could shaders really quickly, but you know, like at some point there's just a better tool.

Just use the tool. That's like better. You, you know, Godot is great and fight the man, but you know, like maybe if you're trying to get the world's most cutting edge, you know, services, [00:36:00] maybe it's just a little bit easier to use

[00:36:01] Chuck: Yeah,

yeah, and and that's a reality and I

think it's a reality for a lot of us where we're fighting to be like the smartest and the right and whatever else and a lot of us aren't and you know, maybe you are I I have I think I'm just a lot of reality into like my abilities and my experience and I'll leverage that I'm gonna leverage that experience to kind of do better along the way.

I won't reinvent the wheel, but I'll definitely make something

[00:36:29] Robbie: Yeah.

I mean, using things Tom Preston Werner makes is probably not bad because he has more money than any of us. So

[00:36:37] Chuck: I didn't,

I didn't copy any of his HR policies. It's totally fine.

[00:36:41] Robbie: Yeah.

uh, and

[00:36:44] Chuck: GitHub.

[00:36:45] ThePrimeagen: of

GIMP. no

[00:36:47] Robbie: GitHub.

[00:36:48] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably

smart guy.

[00:36:50] Robbie: He Does,

Redwood on that

[00:36:52] ThePrimeagen: one, it's okay.

[00:36:53] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:36:54] ThePrimeagen: I've never tried, I've honestly never even heard of or tried Redwood. I feel like in the, in like the faint recesses of my [00:37:00] mind I've heard the term Redwood JS.

I just can't say I've ever tried it

[00:37:03] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:37:04] Robbie: It's like,

Ember for react. Like you switch out your rendering layer with react, but then it has like a lot of conventions that like rails would have, like,

[00:37:12] Chuck: And it's full stack. with generators and like, it's just very, like, if

[00:37:16] Robbie: you want to move from

project to project and be, yeah, like you can go to any Redwood JS project and be productive day one

versus like react projects.

You're going to learn for like months before you like.


[00:37:29] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, because each team has a way of doing like, it's actually a really great argument for why simple languages are better than complex ones. JavaScript, I'd argue is a complex language goes a simple language rust is a complex one, is that when you go like if you were to take any problem you want, it doesn't matter what the problem is and say, Hey, five experts in this language, go solve this problem.

None of them would return with a solution that looks similar. They'd all be so different. And you'd realize like to understand and fix a code base in these languages [00:38:00] require you to also adopt the writer's mentality. It could, it could actually be pretty difficult, whereas like when you use these simpler languages, Lua slash Go, you're gonna, it's, it's pretty much one way to do things.

Like there's not, there's, there's not like a lot of wiggle room. And so you go, oh, I can like fix anything because I, I generally know what they're gonna be

doing. And I'm not saying it's all great, I'm not saying it's all great. Go, there's plenty of sh, shitty, shitty Go. Right, like, I, I, I, I'm not stupid out there.

But it's also, it's like, There's also, I can mostly just swing it, despite having very little experience in it, and go and join in on any project and be relatively

useful. go.

You can go, yeah. Sorry, I've been, I've been on this, I've been on this train a little bit lately, and I've just been really enjoying it.

I'm, I'm, I'm calling it like my late, my later years, my golf years, There you to enjoy developing for the sake of building. Yeah. not for the sake of artisanally dunking with the latest

tech. yeah,

[00:38:54] Chuck: right, like, artisanal dunking. That's very interesting. Yeah

I managed, [00:39:00] a Go team for a bit when I was at Acquia. Yep, there we go. Okay, we'll go again. Yeah, New England.

[00:39:08] ThePrimeagen: want to hear this

[00:39:09] Chuck: yeah, yeah.

[00:39:10] ThePrimeagen: about what your experience was because how long ago was it because go in the last year has gotten actually really good. All the things I've hated about Yeah, is now going


[00:39:19] Chuck: I mean, so, this was like six years ago? Like, it would have been like



years ago? part of Go was there.

Oh, interesting. Well, everyone on that team was very happy. And I dabbled just enough, like, to, for fun, but as a manager I didn't really have to do anything. And yeah, everybody was so happy in that team.

Anyone who was on the team, anybody who came in the team. It was like one of the, like, easiest teams I've ever yeah, I feel like anytime there's a go team like there's never someone that's like I really hate go Like people that give it a try. I think they might not love it as much as some of the people that advocate for [00:40:00] it But no one hates it. Yeah

[00:40:02] ThePrimeagen: I rarely hear people express their undying love for Go. Almost everybody that I know is just like, Yeah, it's pretty good mid language. It's mid. You know, like, that's what makes it so good. It's like, yeah, you know, it's like blue jeans and a sports coat. You Yeah. up, but you're not dressed down.

You Yeah. I think not pissing anyone off is a pretty good place to be,

[00:40:20] Chuck: in life. Like, at this point. Yeah. I think, So here I am cleaning my glass out as a aficionado.

[00:40:28] ThePrimeagen: Well, some of us just brought different Yeah,

[00:40:31] Chuck: know.

Yeah. a really

[00:40:33] ThePrimeagen: aficionado do have a

[00:40:34] Chuck: dishwasher

but Jesus. Yeah, exactly. He's gonna make the final decision. Alright, so this is the New England Barrel Company. Cheers! With an exclamation point. Bourbon Whiskey. It is six years aged and 112. 4 proof

or degrees, depending. blood orange and sage

I'm not getting [00:41:00] the orange, but let me see here. Let me get it in the

glass. Like, how did you get blood orange versus orange? Can you, can you just like lay me in on the secrets to that?

[00:41:07] Robbie: know. It That's true. Well, Blood Orange, to me,

[00:41:10] Chuck: does have a stronger flavor. There, I, I lived in a place many years ago that had a Blood Orange tree in, like, the courtyard.

[00:41:17] ThePrimeagen: Yeah.

[00:41:18] Chuck: And they're just, like, so much more, like, concentrated with a slight bitter tinge. I don't know,


[00:41:23] Robbie: yeah I think they're great. I mean, Oh yeah. in Yeah them and they're fantastic.

[00:41:28] Chuck: We

made fresh blood orange margaritas by the

way Yeah

Yeah, there's a bunch here like citrus and phoenix huge thing. It's like florida to the west. Okay. Yeah I don't know. I like that. I don't know how you're picking blood orange out of that But

[00:41:46] Robbie: on see?

the taste is I don't know

[00:41:50] Chuck: almost like a little simple syrup kind of thing too like a light like straight sugar flavor like sugar cane actually, have you ever like seen like how

to [00:42:00] sugar cane break it off and no, but

[00:42:01] Robbie: Yeah, cane. That was good

[00:42:03] ThePrimeagen: times. see, maybe I, when I was in Hawaii, like I smelled fresh sugarcane.

[00:42:10] Robbie: there's not a lot of sugarcane in rural virginia for

[00:42:12] Chuck: Yeah. Which, yeah, you don't get out of Virginia.


You know a trip abroad for Robbie is Pennsylvania

[00:42:22] ThePrimeagen: Nebraska

[00:42:23] Robbie: Hey, I only go to Italy 'cause

that's the

[00:42:25] ThePrimeagen: Hey,

[00:42:26] Robbie: worth going, Yes. hey to be completely fair most people in California trip abroad would be South Dakota or really anything between Texas, California, Oregon New York right like that would be like, you know, they'd be like, oh I'm roughing it this week. We're going to Nevada

[00:42:44] Chuck: man. That's funny. So I


fam. City, Nevada.

family in mining. We've talked about this before I love Montana. Yeah, I Have you, have you, have you done some fly fishing?

[00:42:56] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, I used to live a half mile from a river runs [00:43:00] through it. River, the

[00:43:00] Chuck: I've been there. Yes. Okay. We should meet in Montana at some point. We can invite Carson

because he's there anyway. Is he in,

[00:43:10] ThePrimeagen: not only can we invite Carson, but we can also get the Sushi Dragon to come along with us.

[00:43:14] Chuck: Okay. I don't know who


[00:43:15] ThePrimeagen: You don't know who the sushi dragon is? He's like a super amazing live editor He does he has like a backpack that has like many hours now footage And he can just like AI out your face and all the stuff very very cool guy

[00:43:26] Robbie: Mm

[00:43:26] ThePrimeagen: But yeah, he's also in Boston, Montana my stomping grounds my alma mater.

[00:43:30] Chuck: Yeah. Okay. I was just say, yeah, my wife's family, they a lot of Bozeman going on. So yeah, that would So good yeah. Love it there.

[00:43:40] ThePrimeagen: Fly fished in 10 years. So like, I think I can still tie a doctor's not, but I'm maybe not, but I can still tie a fly to a string, but everything else, I'm not sure if I could like tie two strings together when you,

[00:43:50] Chuck: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[00:43:51] ThePrimeagen: like, I'm not sure if I remember the exact not anymore.

I know it's called the doctor's not, but I don't

[00:43:56] Chuck: it

is. I actually have a little

plastic thing that tells [00:44:00] you like all the Knots and stuff. Fun

[00:44:02] ThePrimeagen: how about this

one? was taught a doctor's not by a doctor. How about a former surgeon, so,

I'm going to give you an offer and this will be a very secret and best offer and no one else gets to know because only you will know when we do it.

[00:44:14] Chuck: Mm-Hmm?

[00:44:15] ThePrimeagen: If you meet me in Montana and we do this, and we go to Bozeman, Montana, I will

[00:44:21] Chuck: Mm-Hmm.

[00:44:21] ThePrimeagen: the best fishing spot. And when I say best fishing spot, you put a specific type of lure on

[00:44:27] Chuck: Mm-Hmm.

[00:44:29] ThePrimeagen: and you will catch maybe one out of three casts, minimum 15 inches, almost over and over and over again.

I promise. If there's been a fundamental ecological change. This is a secret spot that one of my friends who grew up there, been there for like 30 years before me, showed me, and it's just like, and I even tried his thing. I stood 15 feet away from it on the other side. Caught nothing for like an hour walked over to this thing every third cast just graylings and cutthroats And it's just it's incredible due to how the water [00:45:00] the lake and the river runs It creates this like small little pocket where you just have to throw anything in there and you'll catch it every single time interesting. it is incredible, gonna, one specific spot.

You cannot go anywhere

else. do it. We're, we're gonna, your friend didn't have a last name Rugheimer, right?

No. No, it's earnest His dad plays with John Mayer and other famous blues

people really really awesome. So like during like the Pine Ridge Uh Uh, Pine Ridge Fire, he would like the, you know, they had like the concert, he was involved with the concert, and then last minute some things fell through and he didn't go to it, but like, a lot of like, a lot of that, like when John Mayer first did his very first singing again, it was in Bozeman, Montana, right?

Super super cool stuff.

[00:45:39] Chuck: That is cool stuff. I love that sound. It's very cool. I love Bozeman. place to be.

[00:45:44] ThePrimeagen: It unfortunately, so I bought my first house, I think I said this last time I was on this podcast, 205 on a handshake, in Bozeman, Montana, that same house is worth a million

dollars right now. I don't own it because I sold it because, you know, back then I didn't see the value of real estate nearly as much as I do

[00:45:58] Chuck: Right.

[00:45:59] ThePrimeagen: would have held on [00:46:00] to that. Hands down, I would have held

[00:46:01] Robbie: mm

[00:46:01] ThePrimeagen: and I would have been loving life right now.

[00:46:03] Robbie: Yeah. I have free places to stay there, I

sold we meet, I have free places to stay there, so we're Alright,

[00:46:10] ThePrimeagen: Alright, we should. We absolutely should. Like, I'm actually already gonna go there this Alright. I have to meet up with THE Sushi Dragon.

[00:46:17] Chuck: Nice. Yeah.

I can't go this summer because we're going to Italy for a month, but that's a whole other side story But I we will go we're gonna go in the next year. I'm gonna say it right here. Cheers

[00:46:29] Robbie: Yeah. it seems like you. think the Cheers. a month long.


[00:46:34] ThePrimeagen: know, that's

[00:46:34] Chuck: I guess that's fair. I guess that's fair. That's not impossible to say

[00:46:38] Robbie: You could go,


[00:46:39] Chuck: my

[00:46:39] Robbie: summer. just don't even exist Yeah.

[00:46:42] Chuck: I'm I'm out all of

July a hundred percent depending on weather.

Yeah, well, I have children and they have school and things like that. So I have to consider all those things Yeah, we're going


[00:46:52] ThePrimeagen: the way, do you go by Chuck or Charles? I see you alternate between depending He's, I know

[00:46:58] Robbie: he's Chuck. He, he Yeah, [00:47:00] Charles for the, for the lols

[00:47:01] Chuck: for the internet. So I am Charles William Carpenter the third.

exactly. I have seen I've thing. friends, I'm Chuck.

[00:47:10] ThePrimeagen: okay.

[00:47:11] Chuck: You may, you may call me Chuck.

[00:47:13] ThePrimeagen: Okay. Okay. I was just wondering because I have noticed that it's I've seen like think I have four different points of contact with you and I think two and two

[00:47:21] Chuck: Yeah, that's


[00:47:22] ThePrimeagen: like, okay,

wait a second. this? Yeah. and I mean, I know your name, but I think most of the internet doesn't know your name.

Yeah. I'm fine with that. I mean, it's not hard to figure out It's on my my wiki fan

page all that but I'm not, I'm not trying to dox you here or

[00:47:38] Robbie: Yeah. I think the, the last podcast, we put it in the notes and somebody was like, His name's michael like what I don't know people didn't know


anyway Yeah me like I thought we just agreed together That's okay. It's honestly, okay


[00:47:58] ThePrimeagen: I'm only following four people on [00:48:00] Instagram and one of them's a girl and I always talk about my beautiful wife like it's not that Hard to figure out,

[00:48:05] Chuck: That's

funny. know, it's okay out some parts of my life,

[00:48:08] ThePrimeagen: you not even on Instagram. My wife would run ours until like our entire production process got blown up. So, you

[00:48:15] Chuck: know, as it does

bleep, bleep,

bleep. of blowing up. Let's

man. You're already jumping ahead. What did you guys think about a, I liked the new England barrel.

[00:48:26] Robbie: though remember Okay Hmm

[00:48:29] Chuck: We can, I do want to say one thing about it. Yeah, I do. I think I have one thing to say about it. Now, typically I don't talk a lot about this. You've noticed I've been quiet the entire time. I will say that one thing that happened during the New England that was unique was that when I took a drink, it got really hot.

[00:48:43] ThePrimeagen: And then afterwards, it like, had a second run.

[00:48:45] Chuck: Hmm.

[00:48:46] ThePrimeagen: was kind of more interesting tasting on the second run. I was like, oh, this is a, this is a little bit more nuanced of a, of a drink than the other ones.

[00:48:53] Chuck: Yeah,

Yeah. Sometimes. later on with that one.

Yeah, good call. I mean, Robbie's [00:49:00] really killing It in the notes for me today. Cause I feel like I'm like getting some things and then he'll Yeah. and then just totally hits it

right there. got some that I definitely wouldn't drink again, but I got some that are good so far. We'll see how this last one is.

I, I have two strong,

[00:49:17] Robbie: Yeah. contenders, personally. Alright, what is this? This is

Well, I shouldn't say. You'll say. But it's from Starlight.

[00:49:26] Chuck: Yeah, I know. We have our roles. You intro us and I talk about the whiskeys.

[00:49:30] Robbie: Yeah.

And when I've had five whiskeys, I start to do whatever I want.

[00:49:34] Chuck: Yeah, well, here's the problem. I'm looking for a new co host, I don't know

[00:49:40] ThePrimeagen: Okay.

[00:49:40] Robbie: Hmm.

[00:49:41] Chuck: Yeah. I know a guy. drinker, so I don't know where It's Yeah. but,

[00:49:46] ThePrimeagen: It's gonna be tough.

But I will, I

[00:49:48] Robbie: we can do code


cigars instead. I'll drink a big amount of whiskey at React Miami.

[00:49:56] Chuck: We should yeah. We'll have to do something

[00:49:58] Robbie: special there. Yeah. [00:50:00] you're gonna be there. a lot of people talk about that,

[00:50:04] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, I'm sure that's gonna cause some, some sort of controversy. Cause people think I make fun of React. I only make fun of it so that people take a second and like, slow down. On tech Twitter and like not, I'm sorry if this is too inappropriate, but stop having boners for a react, like slow down a moment and like, just like

[00:50:21] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:50:22] ThePrimeagen: like, what are the trade offs you're actually making?

Like, do you want to make these trade offs? There's some things that I think react does amazing. Like, I really, really like it. I'd say that it's thinking about certain apps, even really just thinking about apps in general tend to be the easiest in react. I think it's really it's really easy. Like I can kind of envision how I would build it and react almost immediately.

No effort. But I've just found that after that point, I struggle more with maintenance and expansion

[00:50:50] Chuck: yeah,

[00:50:51] ThePrimeagen: with like alternatives. And I'm not talking like solid js alternatives or svelte alternatives. I'm talking like, Very, very alternate, like the

HTMX [00:51:00] alternative. I find it's easier, the long tail on HTMX, easier on the short tail with React.

And so I, I say these things not as like, trying to be, I intentionally try to be bombastic, so people just take one second and go, okay, let's, think about it for a second. Maybe, maybe there is some, maybe there's a there there, and maybe there's not.

[00:51:18] Robbie: Yeah, I do think regardless of whether people actually use and like htmx. I think making that like argument that should you be shipping html instead of json is like you should at least think about that because I

do think being able to use it directly is compelling versus having to be like all right well I've got this json let me convert it into the html I want it's already what you want you just use it

so like

[00:51:45] Chuck: I mean the argument is based around, like I remember making, back in the day when I was working with folks in NET and HTML was being shipped and HTML that [00:52:00] wasn't considerate was my argument. I haven't even got there,

[00:52:04] Robbie: Smells like snickerdoodles.

[00:52:05] Chuck: Ooh,

I like that. I don't


[00:52:08] ThePrimeagen: had it. I already had the ice cubes and everything, so I had like a time limit, so I


[00:52:12] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah, you gotta get in there and it.

gets too watered down. No, I totally understand. This one's filled to the brim, by the way. Thanks Michael

[00:52:20] ThePrimeagen: this,

[00:52:20] Chuck: Prime Barrel for really loading this,

one up.

[00:52:23] Robbie: Yeah. Theprimebarrel. com.

[00:52:25] ThePrimeagen: So I, I've enjoyed all of these flavors except for this one. This is actually the one that I'm, I'm, I'm actively against and,

[00:52:31] Robbie: Oh, really?

[00:52:32] ThePrimeagen: not trying to be mean about it, but you know, that spray that you spray in the back of your throat for coughs.

It's not Robitussin or whatever it is.

Chloroceptics. Yes. I'm

having heavy chloro. tasting that.

[00:52:44] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:52:45] Chuck: Mm. It's like a heavy chloroceptics feel to it. Maybe it's licorice. That's like the Ooh, yeah. here. But they're like, it's hard for me to break

[00:52:53] ThePrimeagen: that. getting better at this. You're getting better at this. You don't even know it. Because, first of all, there's no wrong answer. The second of all

[00:52:58] Chuck: is,


the context is your [00:53:00] own. answers. If I say there's oranges and you're like, yo, dog, there's

There's no one

just yeah, but that's it's subjective. So while

we while no, it's subjective in a way And then we have a dialogue and we're trying to like come together on a similar vernacular and that Essentially is like whiskey tasting. All right So this is the starlight bourbon whiskey the cigar batch the joy of starlight Episode 7. finished in Brazilian Amberana That just means they've done six other barrel picks.

[00:53:33] ThePrimeagen: I love, I love their naming though. I think they have,

[00:53:36] Chuck: Yeah. Whiskey culture gets very clever in some of these like naming and a lot of them will do stickers that are hilarious. So, you know, whatever. So this is finished in Brazilian ana rum barrels. It's aged four and a half years. I, know. I remember it was also like finished in these rum barrels for an additional six months and it is 117 proof.

So It is.

a hot [00:54:00] one too.

[00:54:01] Robbie: It is. Yeah.

[00:54:02] ThePrimeagen: I don't actually, I really don't get much of a hot one out of it.

[00:54:06] Chuck: that's good. Mm. a lot

[00:54:08] ThePrimeagen: feel like

it's pretty easy to drink, but it's just that chloroseptics really, it just really gets me. And I can't, I can't



[00:54:13] Chuck: have a

cigar leaf kind of smell to mentioned it, but Yeah I'm getting it a lot

[00:54:18] Robbie: Now

Yeah. know. Did I, did I just anchor bias you Mm. bad, my

[00:54:22] Chuck: Yeah. It happens. So, it being named Cigar Batch, it very much has like a cigar leaf

smell to me. Which is like, I'm okay in certain occasions doing a cigar. I, don't really care like in general, but like, I will

[00:54:39] ThePrimeagen: I, I like a cigar about once every four months.

[00:54:41] Chuck: Oh, four months. Mm. Yeah. We'll get some in Miami.

and then

[00:54:46] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, I, I, if I can fly, I'll find out if I can fly with some, I have a very special brand. I'll tell you about offline. Effectively, effectively impossible to get. Yeah. Very, very difficult. First batch was the largest [00:55:00] cigar drop ever.

Um, they've never been able to, like, no one has replicated this. It's very, very awesome.


[00:55:08] Chuck: I may imp

[00:55:09] ThePrimeagen: I got intrigued.

I got like, I got, I got, I got a few cigars I'll bring down if I can. I don't know if I can. That's like the thing is, I Yeah. across state lines with tobacco. I'm not like, sure the rules on these

kind of things. Because I know like, alcohol is a little tricky


[00:55:23] Robbie: is harder, I think.

[00:55:24] Chuck: checking your bags and carry on too, so

like, if


checking bags, stupid. It's like every law that's ever written where yeah. Oh, but if you take that avocado and smash it, you got yourself a food item. Yeah. Oh, okay.

No, no. It's a nut. No. I

[00:55:39] Robbie: Yeah. Every time I travel with like a stack of business cards, too, they're like, gotta be drugs or something. I'm like,


business cards. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:57] Chuck: you're stopping me. Never mind. The business cards really

[00:56:00] matter. All right. Well, we've had all of the whiskeys now. Mm hmm. are we feeling like what are the top two or three everyone's thinking?

Pull mine forward.

[00:56:12] Robbie: I've I really liked the Angel Zanbi.

[00:56:16] Chuck: hmm.

[00:56:17] ThePrimeagen: I was a little bit surprised because I've had it before and I didn't, I don't remember it being like, likeable. I wouldn't, I wouldn't put it on like my list where I remember, maybe rememberable might be a little bit better. I, I've had it a few times now and I was like, Oh, that's, that's nice.

But like, I wouldn't think about it that much. This time I really enjoyed it. Within the confines of this batch, I found it very nice. Maybe it's because it's the first one, and the first one's always

[00:56:39] Chuck: We can go back to it. We can go back to it. Do you have


[00:56:41] ThePrimeagen: I am, I'm planning on it a little bit. I've got, I've gotten a little bit, I've gotten a little bit of whiskey in me at this point, boys.

Dude, I accidentally poured way too much of this one. Look at this one. I accidentally got way too

heavy on

[00:56:53] Robbie: Yeah, curve is

[00:56:54] Chuck: there. That's that with like every one of them so i'm

[00:56:57] Robbie: i


not driving after this starlight,

[00:56:59] Chuck: by [00:57:00] the

way. hammered.

Yeah. See, I've only eaten once today, so

[00:57:04] Robbie: yeah, Chuck

and I have a an alcohol problem, so we're okay

[00:57:08] Chuck: It's only Okay. if your kids are in the car. Oh my gosh.

[00:57:16] Robbie: No, okay, let's cancel



[00:57:18] ThePrimeagen: and a miss. Yeah, we're gonna cancel Chuck now everybody. Can

we please, Twitter? so is the new co host I'm Gen X, and I'm gonna get cancelled.

[00:57:27] Chuck: doubt. know, I think Gen X does suffer from the most cancellable takes because you grew up like with the, you grew up in your more formative years than I did. With the internet in some sense, because you grew up in like the, cause I'd say that most people act more like they did from when they were 18 to 24 than when they did from when they're like nine through 18.

[00:57:47] ThePrimeagen: So like, I, I mean, the words that I use to describe people on the internet are largely cancelable from the ages of, you know, nine to 25, Uh, but now, you know, like, you know, you shift that back a few [00:58:00] years or forward a few years also. And you can have like, you're much more like adult

[00:58:04] Robbie: Yeah, how Oh, absolutely. kazaa came out chuck Yeah,

[00:58:13] Chuck: and winning, or What was it? I don't know. Anyway, another one where we stole music. I


LimeWire, definitely. No, no no,

[00:58:23] Robbie: but

[00:58:23] Chuck: there was

[00:58:24] Robbie: limewire I feel like

[00:58:26] Chuck: our,

[00:58:27] ThePrimeagen: the dark ages.

[00:58:28] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:58:29] Chuck: was on all of those sites just testing music before I went to buy it, of course.

Um, a record of the ones you were going to buy and own legally after the

mm, exactly. Kazaa would have been out, so I'm thinking like, in 2000, I moved to Arizona, the first time, and I had roommates, and we bought a, we built, bought and built, components for like, communal [00:59:00] computer. We didn't even have our own computers I did have some computers

prior to that, but 90s. That was a Oh yeah, the house

[00:59:06] Robbie: computer.

Yeah. family.

[00:59:08] Chuck: Oh, yeah, yeah. When I started college, I had to get, like I'm trying to think. We had a My brother had a computer before I actually might have owned one. And I remember, like, when I started college, I was forced to get a computer because I was starting, like, architecture at Cincinnati University of

Cincinnati. architecture. What a horrible choice. Oh,

to make art that would last.

[00:59:33] ThePrimeagen: I like

that answer, though. it sounds very fun. I don't know that I would want to do all the work

[00:59:38] Robbie: involved I washed out of it is because it sounded like I love art. I still love architecture I

[00:59:44] Chuck: read

things but of the hardest degrees to Yeah, like you are in it

when you do get it like the being anybody in it is very difficult, right? Like so not everybody gets to be Frank Lloyd Wright or whatever

Frank Gehry or whatever Yeah, like it's [01:00:00] really tough like most the time you're in an agency like a lawyer And you're just running through.

Yeah, so, all of that reality kind of washed on me. Plus, I started college at 17, so I just was like, I think this is what I want to do, but I don't know what I want to do. And yeah, that's my whole weird backstory. But,

[01:00:21] ThePrimeagen: Can I take a quick break? I need to use the bathroom and

[01:00:23] Robbie: Sure. Yeah, that's fine

[01:00:25] Chuck: here.

[01:00:26] ThePrimeagen: So I got Yeah

[01:00:28] Chuck: Don't pee your pants! They're dark. It's fine. Can't you just pee them? I didn't

know if he had, like, rem yeah.

[01:00:39] Robbie: Oh, man. I've had some whiskey.

[01:00:43] Chuck: Yeah. Which is funny, because it's like, varying levels per whiskey. I do

[01:00:51] Robbie: I've got two clear not winners

[01:00:54] Chuck: oh yeah, I have three clear not winners.

[01:00:57] Robbie: the two two for sure for [01:01:00] sure are Nashville and wilderness that are not winners Do you have those and you're not winners?

[01:01:05] Chuck: yes, and the Okay. starlight, that we just had was not good.

[01:01:09] Robbie: Well, so I'm, I'm on the fence and we can talk about this more when Prime comes back, but like, I still think it has some

[01:01:18] Chuck: okay.

[01:01:19] Robbie: snickerdoodle like qualities that are tasty. It does. Once you've mentioned chloroseptic, you can't like untaste

it. But like, I think with that in mind, it's, it's still my number three. And then I have the, the other two. So, yeah, I don't know. I think it's definitely going to be Angels Envy or New England for the one we pick. I think. I think we're all on the same page with that.

[01:01:50] Chuck: okay,

[01:01:52] Robbie: Unless you had a separate number two. But, no, we just said that, yeah. Yeah, so we're still on the same page there, [01:02:00] yeah.

[01:02:00] Chuck: We are aligned. And now he is back. You know,

those are dark pants, you could have just peed them.

[01:02:12] Robbie: Yeah, just, or yeah, just get



[01:02:14] ThePrimeagen: have committed I could have committed

but I didn't

[01:02:16] Chuck: is on like on stream. Have you ever just yourself if we could cut this Okay, well,

[01:02:24] ThePrimeagen: Great question, but no I haven't so, okay, long piddled a little bit like i've had that

[01:02:29] Robbie: so I want to, I want to ask this question. I don't know if any of you have experience with this because like people that play hockey and you're like on the rink for like two hours or whatever.

Say Great question. I love this themselves when they're on the, on the rink because you're not going to stop like

any, millions

[01:02:48] Chuck: of true?

[01:02:49] Robbie: Any


[01:02:50] ThePrimeagen: I, so I actually doubt the fundamental premise, meaning that whenever I've played, and even pick up basketball. I will accidentally play for like, two hours [01:03:00] straight, and you won't realize that you've been playing that long. And, cause your body goes into fight or flight mode, which, which halts your, your processes.

Right, so you're, you're like, you're really trying. So I, I think that they, I, I would assume that anyone that's done that, it's like something's gone odd. And they're just like, oh shit. Somehow I gotta pee and I'm on the ice. I'm gonna let this, I'm gonna let this fly, you know, I got you, maybe, maybe, but have you ever peed, like, have you as an adult peed your pants?

Like, No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

some time.

[01:03:33] Chuck: How is it that like as you get older you just have more and more pee like it feels like it's

[01:03:39] Robbie: And more and more frequent. Yeah.

[01:03:42] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, it's called getting old, actually. That's what


like, that's the


[01:03:45] Robbie: Yeah.

[01:03:45] Chuck: expert in that.

[01:03:46] ThePrimeagen: I don't know if it's a prostate problem as much as it is like we drink too much bubble water. I think actually one of my big problems is I drink too much bubble water and coffee. And so I've actually, I backed away, I went back to tea.

So like this last week I did a bunch of coffee again and my urgency to pee [01:04:00] and on things like that, my frequency went way up again and I've Oh yeah. and went back to tea and things are kind of back on the down, the down Also, back

down. I've just noticed that like coffee makes

my body upset, you know? Way more

[01:04:12] Robbie: diuretic. Yeah. caffeine. So is it, you know, versus tea? So is it like higher?

[01:04:18] ThePrimeagen: I think it's, it's not only that, but when you drink coffee, you end thirsty. Whereas when you drink tea, you don't like I'm not like thirsty like I can drink four glasses of tea and I think it also like counts also as water.

[01:04:30] Robbie: Yeah. like, when you It doesn't negate at all. Yeah.


Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:42] Chuck: it

[01:04:43] ThePrimeagen: yeah.

[01:04:43] Chuck: definitely so you're flushing

[01:04:45] Robbie: Coffee is like, it's more of just like a ritual thing for me. It's like, you gotta have coffee because it's like, feels right. But it's like, it is not right for your body for sure.

[01:04:56] Chuck: Yeah, it I've changed a lot. I [01:05:00] actually did 20 some days off of all caffeine just, just recently. Early, late January to early February or throughout that whole period. And then it was really, really good. And so now I've just been on the tea train, largely, and it's

[01:05:13] Robbie: Yeah.

[01:05:13] ThePrimeagen: it's been more enjoyable. I'd say that I have more normal energy and more normal everything in


[01:05:20] Robbie: Yeah. to set up The UK office,

[01:05:23] Chuck: of the Primeagen? Trademark

[01:05:26] ThePrimeagen: UK office, I do

drink Earl Grey. I

do like a

[01:05:30] Robbie: cause T. Okay. I see.

[01:05:31] ThePrimeagen: But I largely drink a Pu erh, which is not a it's not a

[01:05:34] Chuck: Oh, yeah. I know. Yeah, I know that one though

[01:05:37] ThePrimeagen: Pu erh is like a medicinal herbal

tea, but

it's also has caffeine on it.

[01:05:40] Robbie: are good. Yeah.

[01:05:41] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, so it's like you get all the good stuff you actually it actually

has some fermented or

[01:05:46] Chuck: something

[01:05:47] ThePrimeagen: has like some known health benefits I forget the studies, but there's like some basic like it could be good for you, and it all says caffeine So it's like it's really the best of both worlds Okay, I got I heard of I heard a hot take

today, which is [01:06:00] I forgot who was saying it But they are saying within the next 20 years They will come out that cat or that nicotine is actually a health item

if the ways you ingest nicotine are the negative

[01:06:10] Chuck: Oh, so into your

[01:06:12] Robbie: Well, I

do like the the thing where people were saying like, I run a marathon and like slap a nicotine patch on, like that sounds like a body hack. Like

definitely do that. Yeah. like



[01:06:27] ThePrimeagen: Because nicotine is also an

[01:06:28] Robbie: into

[01:06:29] ThePrimeagen: right? It's like,

[01:06:30] Robbie: if you can trick your body into being addicted to running that is probably a health benefit for sure so like

[01:06:37] ThePrimeagen: interesting. Depends if you're a woman or a man. I don't know if you know that, but you'll produce significantly more cortisol if you're a lady than a

man running long, like long distances. Yeah. Your body goes into more of a fight or flight like situation. There's like a whole bunch of breakdowns that I was reading and my wife was totally into this because she was trying to figure out some problems with her back.

So she was like, all right, how do I do all this? And she like realized there's like certain techniques, certain times of the day that are more beneficial for [01:07:00] her than for me. So like for me, it's way better to re to work out at like four to five o'clock in the afternoon. And for her, it's early in the morning.

And like generally women will have a better. Biological response than a man

or physiological response. I think would be the

proper answer and so running can be very cortisol inducing

[01:07:18] Chuck: that kind of makes sense. And I think


[01:07:20] ThePrimeagen: Which is like the stress hormone. It's like when you get under stress you kind of get


[01:07:23] Robbie: yeah, that makes

sense That's


[01:07:25] ThePrimeagen: not everybody but it's like the general curve, right?

If you fall if you fall within the standard deviation, which most of us do then that's what you're gonna experience full ass

[01:07:33] Robbie: so while we're on the subject of Physical activity. I do want to bring up I've been very curious workout clothes The only reason why I wear lululemon like what's up with working out in like khakis or jeans or like Full on pants like you don't you don't have any workout shorts or anything Yeah

[01:07:57] ThePrimeagen: [01:08:00] Oh, hey, see ya. See ya, Chuck. The only reason

why I wear

Lululemon every once in a while

Yeah, I understand. Lumex has a really nice camera. That's the one I use. It works very well. Anyways so I wear clothes that I can double as workouts. I wear a Cuts t shirt underneath. You can sweat in these things, it wicks it away.

It's like that stretchy That stretchy

material all that good stuff. Yeah, cuz they're very very nice. And I also wear largely workout pants that look like regular pants and The reason why is that if I'm going like this is gonna be such a ridiculous thing if I'm going to live the life of Waking up at 5 30 in the morning trying to get ready as quickly as I can streaming for hours So I'm going to be able to be active with my wife and be able to engage her in a real way for at least an hour a day.

The only way I'm going to do that is by cutting out all waste of time. And one of the biggest waste of time is working out. And so therefore I'm [01:09:00] going to figure out a way to work out without having to deal with all the working out.

[01:09:03] Robbie: Hmm Yeah, that's a fair point, like, I often will skip that and like, just wear pajama pants. But like, if you could just change into like, comfy, stretchy pants that are like, also look like presentable pants,

[01:09:20] ThePrimeagen: They're very wickable and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, exactly.

[01:09:23] Robbie: yeah, like a, like Viori or like any, like they make

the like, Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. kind of pants, like, kind of same thing, yeah.



[01:09:30] ThePrimeagen: a bunch, there's a bunch of brands now that do that. And so that, that's like literally the idea behind it, is that I wear pants that double as workout pants. And if I don't, even if I am in jeans, I'm so used to wearing pants and things like that, that I can kind of just like, ah, whatever, like, I'm not gonna squat that day.

I'll do something else, but like, if you bench press, it's not like your pants play a large role Hmm. than you're hot.

[01:09:51] Robbie: Well, it depends on your pa So, have you do you have any Ministry of Supply stuff?

Have you heard


them? I don't know, my wife [01:10:00] buys all my

[01:10:00] ThePrimeagen: clothes.

[01:10:00] Robbie: Ministry of Supply is like,

[01:10:02] ThePrimeagen: anything other than Cuts, cause I just saw that.

[01:10:05] Robbie: They have like, like performance, like, suits. Right? So

they're like, stretchy, and so I can like, squat in a suit. Like,


it's, it's like, Yeah. Yeah. So check out ministry of supply.

Like I,

I brought them to my trip to last time I went to Italy and, and like I did some squats in a suit and it was like, amazing. I

just got the pictures like for the lulls of like, I did this, but yeah. Okay. So it's, so it's less about like my, my, my initial, my initial thought was like, you're saying like, this is the pants I'm going to wear to like work my land.

And I want to like work out in that environment or something.


[01:10:45] ThePrimeagen: No.

[01:10:45] Robbie: just about like less decisions and like,

all right.

[01:10:49] ThePrimeagen: Yep. I, I, I, have five or six shirts that I wear every single day. I wear black hoodies, same shirt, same pants pretty much every single day. I have one drawer. That's it. I don't have like, [01:11:00] I don't have some extensive closet. My wife has a closet. I have a drawer and a dresser and that is it. Like your standard size drawer.

We're not even talking about like one of those wide mouth drawers. We're talking about like a drawer. It has like five shirts, two pants, three pants in it, and that's it. And then I buy all the same socks and every two years I throw away all my socks and get a new set of socks. Never fold,

never wear anything.

I don't know, my wife buys the

socks. Yeah, same thing.

[01:11:29] Chuck: Okay, fair enough.

[01:11:30] ThePrimeagen: It's just like at this point in my life with all the things going on. I have to make the most optimal decisions of life, which is to just make no decision. Just walk

in, grab off the top. That's my life, right? Open up my drawer. Everything's unfolded.

I just put my hands in there and grab two things out and I'm like socks, underwear, pants, shirt, clothes, walk away. So my life literally exists in three drawers. Underwear drawer, which is like a, we have like a tiny one, like this big of a drawer. So that's like underwear drawer, socks drawer, [01:12:00] drawer.

It would be two if I, you know, didn't have that.

[01:12:02] Robbie: Yeah.

[01:12:03] Chuck: That's

[01:12:04] ThePrimeagen: There you go. I know that's a

[01:12:05] Robbie: Yeah. Okay. Well, that answers my question. So. We do need to pick a whiskey before we end here. I

think Chuck and I were talking a little bit while you were gone for a second. think our top two, and you correct me if I'm wrong Prime, are Angel's Envy and the New England Barrel Company.

Those are your top

[01:12:24] ThePrimeagen: did kind of like the wild but I think that, I think the New England is

pretty. go back and do another taste of

[01:12:30] Chuck: the wild. should

[01:12:31] Robbie: we taste a little bit of these


[01:12:34] ThePrimeagen: I also thought Oh. Oh. Ha ha ha


[01:12:39] Chuck: the



[01:12:43] Robbie: Well, that one, blows

[01:12:44] ThePrimeagen: proof.

[01:12:44] Robbie: away.

[01:12:45] Chuck: Yeah, by the way, that's the best one. It goes pretty far. I have three left, by the way. I only have three left.

[01:12:53] ThePrimeagen: Really? Yeah, I've kept on to mine, and I, and I

[01:12:56] Robbie: I have a lot left. Yeah, [01:13:00] I'll

[01:13:01] ThePrimeagen: I assume you guys aren't just giving away free barrel ones all the

time, so it's like, this is a

[01:13:05] Robbie: No, possession.

Yeah, I will bring a

[01:13:09] Chuck: me.

[01:13:09] Robbie: them to Miami and we will give them to Dax probably doesn't have one yet, so we'll give him one. And then, I don't know, we'll pick who gets them.

[01:13:17] Chuck: Wait, I think we're doing a day before React Miami

[01:13:20] ThePrimeagen: party. I was going to say, let's get awkward and see. Was Robby invited?

[01:13:24] Robbie: Well, it doesn't matter a ton because I'm going to

be at WebDevCon like that day and have to fly from Seattle to Miami, which is going

to blow. Yeah.


[01:13:37] ThePrimeagen: an awful flight.

[01:13:38] Robbie: Yeah. So I don't know what time I'll be there, but

whenever If you, if the day before, if you arrived the day

[01:13:44] ThePrimeagen: before, which is the ideal time to arrive, arrive as early as possible.

[01:13:49] Robbie: the plane and I will show up wherever you are.

[01:13:51] Chuck: Okay.

[01:13:52] ThePrimeagen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Reach out on discord. You're not friends on discord with me. Just reach out on discord and I'll make sure you, you come, you come out to all the

fun stuff because [01:14:00] I mean, to have an exclusivity thing over Robby and you are ruining this.

[01:14:07] Chuck: Okay.

[01:14:07] ThePrimeagen: I like technically right now I've only invited Robbie, Okay. inverse right now. It's like uno reversing you right That's true, technically been invited yet.

[01:14:17] Chuck: but only

directly by text.

[01:14:19] Robbie: you though, right?

[01:14:20] Chuck: Yeah, he did.

[01:14:21] Robbie: Yeah.

[01:14:22] Chuck: But I like

[01:14:23] ThePrimeagen: you, then you're good to go.

[01:14:24] Chuck: message with him sometimes, so. And I would have brought you anyway, so it doesn't matter. But I'm doing a a red eye in, so that I can show up for that party.

[01:14:35] ThePrimeagen: So hey, I got I got a question for you guys. How do you guys feel about like the new wave of of tech and influence and Twitter and all that because I kind of feel like you know, some sense, I'm largely responsible for what has happened,

[01:14:50] Chuck: yeah.

[01:14:51] ThePrimeagen: but now it's out of my, it's out of control. Now it's like its own thing.

And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just sitting back in the shadows and watching the whole thing happen.

[01:14:57] Chuck: Yeah. How do you guys feel about like [01:15:00] the new tech Twitter and everything? Like the fact that we're even talking about a party that's going to take place in Yeah. Like that's like it just feels weird because that's like that's not normal

[01:15:10] ThePrimeagen: tech not. It is very kind of exclusive, so it is kind of funny that it is a created culture. Yeah I agree, I think you're very much in, to

[01:15:24] Chuck: be Yeah, yeah, yeah, you didn't, yeah, yeah,

[01:15:27] ThePrimeagen: Turns out I turned on all the 4chan users and furries just loved what I was saying and they all joined me on listen, I, I don't know, I think that, I think it's interesting discourse, and I think that, you know, it, it can be fleeting or as interesting as you make it. Just don't take it that seriously. I mean, just post about CoffeeScript and let people come complain about it for multiple

[01:15:51] Chuck: days, which is exactly what I did.


just tested that. I was like, what was wrong with this? This is a version of TypeScript that added sugar on top [01:16:00] of JavaScript that we loved at the time. By the way, I loved it because I was also working in Python and it felt like less context change. That's what I liked about it.

[01:16:09] ThePrimeagen: Okay

[01:16:10] Chuck: Yeah. It was a little like,

you know, Hmm. backendy like. Whatever you were working in like it didn't feel like it fit your javascript front end and that's why I didn't like it seemed like it went too far the other way

Yeah, and I liked it because of where I was, you know, it was just like this made sense to me. I can go back and forth and do some of the same stuff. Awesome.

[01:16:32] ThePrimeagen: Uh, alright, so then follow up, follow up, do you worry about the future of all the fun we've created? Because obviously there's like, my big worry with a lot of this is that we have the mentality of it doesn't necessarily matter. Like I go on Twitter to just have fun, like I don't go on there for serious discourse.

Like I'm smarter than that, you have 280 characters, you can't possibly you can't possibly make an [01:17:00] articulate anything like that. It's, it's entirely too, you know, it's, it's entirely too one dimensional to do anything. So it's, it's much better to say, Hey, here's something super cool. Here's something I really hate.

Here's something I'm thinking about. Right? Like, that's it. That's all you can do. You can't do anything in depth. And my big worry is that due to inflated amount of people kind of all falling into this and like our niche of a niche becoming just a niche itself, it's actually becoming pretty large that people can gain.

This idea that there's like importance to it and we will lose kind of this, I don't know how to call like an indie style niche where it's just like fun. I do think there's a future where it's unfun and we're back to where it was eight years ago and tech Twitter because I at one point eight years ago, tech Twitter was like,

[01:17:43] Chuck: yeah,

[01:17:43] ThePrimeagen: part of the academia react crowd, you're like, you're kind of an asshole.

And you, you know, you get relegated to your little tiny

[01:17:51] Chuck: I don't know, because I think the Yeah askew more towards TMZ than they do towards [01:18:00] like peer reviewed kind of publication. Yeah I think I think like the the whole react thing has You know, it's react is still popular, of course, and it will be probably for decades but like It's we we've started to realize like You It's not the silver bullet that everyone said it was so it's like You know, I I think people are starting to think for themselves a little bit again, and I think like we're staying within that realm and it's all like It's all fun now.

[01:18:31] Robbie: Everyone has opinions and and some of them are right and you know, like there's not like It's not as polarizing. There's a bunch of alternatives that are like valid at this point Yeah,

[01:18:46] ThePrimeagen: fighting like we actually get into like gaming, you know, like if you go into gaming, there's a lot of people that like fight. And then I kind of view like there's like this outside group, like I put Dr. Disrespect at the outside group, like they're they just create and that is it [01:19:00] right like they don't really kind of engage in a lot of these more petty type of drama type things.

And I worry that even in our world, we're going to fall down into this drama hole, which is kind of like the inevitable end of any content creation is drama. And like, I don't want, I don't want to go there.

[01:19:15] Chuck: Yeah, I think, I think that if you are approaching it from a subject matter expertise, that like, okay, this is the right answer, rather than this is just how I feel. That might be a differentiator there, at least from like a creator's perspective, it's sort of like, don't put it out there of like, this is the happy path for all of your life, instead of like, this is, and I per, I perceive your content in this way, of like, Hey, this is what's worked for me.

This is what I like. Here's why this is what the outcomes It's given me take it or leave it kind of thing You know, like you learn something [01:20:00] whether whatever you do with that is for you. I don't think there's harm in that But there's definitely plenty of people plenty of people in our space who are going the inverse and they're gonna like try and nab Attention, I think that's inevitable.

I don't know that that will harm it From a creator's perspective. Like, if you're someone who's in it, time, and you maintain that perspective, then, you know, that's just, I, I, I think that can go in perpetuity.


don't know.

[01:20:37] ThePrimeagen: I mean, just don't worry. I've been having this thought for like the last few weeks of, you know, like I have a unique chance Yeah. speak into this problem and I, I'm not like the sole voice, so I don't get, I'm not the dictator, so I can't choose which direction we take, but I do see at least for the last two years beforehand, it was The old Twitter tech [01:21:00] crowd saying, you know, clickbait, scambait, all these people and just kind of largely talking down on like the next gen, right?

And then it was us just like, Oh my goodness, look at how stupid we are. And then like that, that like, that was it. But now I'm starting to feel like this, like, I feel more and more fighting and people not fighting for like, dumb reasons, but like actually fighting for It feels almost like for like, cloud fighting.

I'm not exactly sure how to, how to, how to say it. And so my worry is that I just don't want, I want it to remain a place where people feel like they can just join in and say stupid things. And maybe you'll get dunked on a little bit, but it's like not dunking for the sake of trying to harm. It's dunking for the sake of like, that's like the fun, right?

That's the Yeah, it's all lighthearted. Yeah.

I don't say nice things to my friends because that's not what friends are for. You say, You say funny things to your friends, and that's, you know, like, that's what it's for.

[01:21:49] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a tough thing, because you don't control the platform, so that's part of it. Like, Twitch, for example, You control the platform a bit more because it is [01:22:00] live and like you can meld that in the moment.

Like Twitter is just gonna like go on and it goes in weird places, which I do think like a good thing is basically the discourse is maybe like 30 minutes, a couple of hours and that's kind of it.

And then it just sort of goes on, but there's, there's just people like tagging onto that. So like kind of who cares? And most people don't see it. So there's that aspect of it. And Yeah, I don't know, it's a little bit wild, of the Wild West, it almost makes me think about what you said earlier, which around like real estate, where it's sort of like, it can really strongly go in one or other direction.

And I think like the fish, like the stronger, I don't know, for lack of a better term, the stronger voices can help like direct it in those directions. They can't control it completely, but definitely can like. Just encourage it in one direction or the other and it could be just it [01:23:00] could end up being bots and bullshit and like terrible and whatever else and it gets abandoned.

There's that direction or it continues to be like this. I don't, I feel like right now it's a very creative space in a lot of ways because like you can have your comment on that, your comments on there and like posts and like driving people into some content that you're doing, but then like conversely, we can like start a very interesting discourse about, you know, 10 year old tech or, I don't know.

It goes in like very interesting directions. And if we like all. Sort of encouraging, encourage those like more creative directions, then it can be fine for a while So, I don't know. I think we are at a, at a like, we're not plateaued by any means But we will look at it at a certain point and then it can either be like a garbage space or a good space

[01:23:56] ThePrimeagen: Because ultimately, at the end of [01:24:00] the day, it's like, if you have a voice in this area and you want it to be good, like, you have to kind of fight for that, and it's hard to fight for that and make it good. Right? Because once you fight for something, by a necessity, you also make something good. Well, you're fighting for something.

So there's like tension involved. And so how do you like, try to bring people about how do you, so like something I've been trying for about the last year and a half is I try to tweet things that are like in the exceptional either about something I'm doing or something that I really like. And I just try to keep it in these two camps because or else it's like, it just, it just degenerates into just like not good stuff.

I don't know. Just something I've been thinking about. I know this is a weird tangent. It's just, you know, you get a little bit of whiskey in me. And then I, you know, like my, my black pill nature that that lurks in there kind of comes out a little bit. Like I always worry about any, any good community because every community I've ever been a part of up until now has ultimately disbanded right like every [01:25:00] everything you've ever like I've been a part of World of Warcraft guilds I've been a part of bunch of online guilds and all that kind of stuff all all those different clans and every one of them no longer exists because eventually like that day that age that it moves on and so that's kind of like my thought process like how do you create something that's like a little bit longer lasting

[01:25:21] Robbie: Yeah, it's a

[01:25:22] Chuck: I think you give it care. I think that the thoughtfulness that you're putting into it is one part of that, right? And that if you have collusion into that thoughtfulness, is that that can encourage some of that. Yeah, because it takes more than one kind of thing, whatever. So, yeah, I mean, the fact that you care and that are crafting that, I think, contributes to it.

I mean, never say never, it can go either direction, but if, you know, enough people care, get, and get together as we are at React Miami.

[01:25:57] ThePrimeagen: Oh, by the way, [01:26:00] Michelle, I do want to shout out. I don't know if this

will come up before beforehand. Michelle is an extremely talented conference hoster. Like I, I mean, I'm shocked about like all the details you have to do to host a conference. Like as someone who's hosted a couple online conferences, it's even as little as I've done.

It's an extreme amount of work. Yeah. so like the, the sheer complexity that's involved and the ability for her to do that. I'm, I'm extremely impressed. And so I think anybody would be, just fortunate as it gets to have Michelle on their team.

[01:26:31] Chuck: Yeah, for sure. completely.

[01:26:34] Robbie: if this does come out before react miami, you can use the code whiskey web miami to get a discount

[01:26:41] Chuck: Oh yeah,

she just sent that. Whiskey web Miami. We're doing the best

[01:26:47] Robbie: don't know.

[01:26:47] ThePrimeagen: on your guys behalf because it's like, this is kind of like a moment here, you know, we're having about,

[01:26:53] Robbie: come out earlier because we do it all ourselves.

[01:26:55] Chuck: can. We're doing Prime barrel picks right here with [01:27:00] Prime. I mean,

[01:27:01] Robbie: Which,

[01:27:02] ThePrimeagen: you guys always have sent me so much whiskey. You've probably sent me a couple hundred dollars worth of whiskey at this point. Thank you. Very much

[01:27:07] Robbie: yeah.

[01:27:07] Chuck: so what you're saying is you're cheap.

I can buy you very cheaply. is this

Wait, I want to say one more thing about

Miami. I want to say, and I've been doing that, I want to say one more thing about Miami. And what I like best about it is

that we're gonna be there. And that we have kind of an open format there, so we're gonna do a

[01:27:30] ThePrimeagen: I hear you're gonna be walking around.

[01:27:32] Robbie: Yes. We'll

[01:27:33] Chuck: kind of stuff.

And it's the

[01:27:35] Robbie: flasks and stuff.

[01:27:37] Chuck: I'm gonna force Theo to be on this podcast. I'm gonna force him.

[01:27:42] ThePrimeagen: Interesting. Okay, so hey, the good news is, is that Theo and I will be live reacting to

some of the

conference talks. And So I'll also

[01:27:48] Robbie: be

handing you whiskey

[01:27:49] ThePrimeagen: a streaming.

[01:27:50] Chuck: yeah,

you'll help foster that relationship in a way.

[01:27:55] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, I like it. I like it. Yeah, because I want things to grow together, not apart. So you [01:28:00] know that I'm always going to fight for the good things, The together things.

[01:28:04] Chuck: And us, you know. good

things. also the reasonable

But also us, I guess,

you know, at

[01:28:10] Robbie: somewhere on that, list.

[01:28:12] Chuck: end there

is us.

[01:28:13] ThePrimeagen: barrel. One would say not a prime barrel, but one would say a barrel nonetheless.


[01:28:18] Chuck: I love it. All right. Yes. Let's circle back and say, so I think we all

agreed that we,

[01:28:24] Robbie: both of these two on the, on the scale? Take a little sip of each again

and then do the tentacles. yeah, I'm willing, I'm willing to take a sip. and the new England barrel

[01:28:35] ThePrimeagen: and whatnot.

Whiskey that I'm trying to finish over here. know. Listen, that's going to influence your palate, but

[01:28:41] Robbie: Yeah, that one's better than any of these

[01:28:43] Chuck: It is now they all seem amazing.

[01:28:47] ThePrimeagen: Well, now I'm just muting these other ones, so, you know.

[01:28:50] Chuck: Okay. So new England barrel.

[01:28:53] Robbie: Are we starting with new england

[01:28:56] Chuck: No, I would start with angels.

[01:28:58] Robbie: All right. So [01:29:00] start with angels

[01:29:01] Chuck: I'm going to

do it. I'm going to do it like a Kentucky boy right out of the, right out of the bottle.

[01:29:06] Robbie: Hmm ken wheeler style

[01:29:08] ThePrimeagen: Yeah, I

don't think that's called Kentucky.

Boy. I think that's called the new Joy Z

[01:29:11] Robbie: Yeah Joisey boy. Yeah. He per he, he prefers it out of these little plastic

[01:29:17] Chuck: bottles.

[01:29:17] ThePrimeagen: the way, I am a huge fan of, of Ken Wheeler. So, you know, I'm going to throw that out there. I just absolutely

love hanging out with that.

[01:29:24] Robbie: yeah.

[01:29:25] Chuck: I mean, super

[01:29:26] Robbie: see him in

[01:29:27] ThePrimeagen: I, dude, we got Madison. We got Madison there. We got Ken Wheeler there. We got Theo there. And I'm hoping we get Soykotic there. There's a maybe on Soykotic, but if

[01:29:37] Chuck: real? Is she a real person?

[01:29:39] Robbie: Yeah, she's AI, right? Yeah.

[01:29:46] ThePrimeagen: people. I'll be the quiet one, just like voyeurism. Just like, oh my.

[01:29:51] Chuck: live? commenting

[01:29:54] ThePrimeagen: no, I don't think she's gonna be, I don't think she's gonna be around She's not like, jumping on anything that I know of. But, if [01:30:00] work

and things align, because She has like a pre planned, some sort of, something, something.

Something, something, something can't make it due to other events, or circumstances, or whatever. But if things do change, and she has the availability, she will make it down. And if that's the case, she I personally am the most excited probably because you know, I've been, I've been following SoyCotic since like she had like 400 followers Yeah, I don't know. just interacting with her.

Did her takes or just have been the funniest So And so I've just so excited about, I'm so excited for the chance to like meet her in real life. All right. So did you do the Angels Envy or New England First?

[01:30:34] Chuck: angels. I do the angels first.

[01:30:36] Robbie: Yeah. shake it a little bit? Distribute the goods evenly.

All right, You on.

[01:30:46] ThePrimeagen: I gotta let

[01:30:46] Chuck: Okay. Uh, it.

okay. So, the angels envy, in terms of finished bourbons, to me, I mean, it is tasty. [01:31:00] It's pretty good. It is better than other angels envies. Finished bourbons. We've had a few barrels that are pretty decent too. I'm going to put it at a solid six, six for me.

[01:31:11] Robbie: Okay.

[01:31:12] Chuck: I've got, I've got my,

I've I would go, yeah. Or nine or whatever. Yeah.

Whatever You

[01:31:19] ThePrimeagen: it's zero through eight. meaning that There's nine. slots

[01:31:22] Robbie: right.

[01:31:22] ThePrimeagen: a seven out of nine if you're on a one scale. If you're programming Lua.

[01:31:26] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah. So for me. I, I kind of agree, but I would go a little higher and I, you know, I don't know if we want to do half ratings or how we want to be, but I don't think it's quite a seven and I don't think it's as low as a six. So I'm going to

say like six and a half.

[01:31:44] ThePrimeagen: So I guess I have a fundamentally different thing. So I kind of rate them by due to the rookiness of myself. like to rate these whiskeys by how like, I guess they just, they feel my, my kind of moment or my [01:32:00] moment

right now. And when I drink the, the, the whiskey, the angel envy, what I've noticed is that it has like a hard front

[01:32:07] Chuck: hmm.

[01:32:07] ThePrimeagen: and an oddly hard back,


Like it has, both sides are kind of like

intense, where

[01:32:12] Chuck: is just like

[01:32:13] ThePrimeagen: ramp up a high period and a low kind of ramp off. Whereas this one kind of feels like you got both sides. It's like a step function. It's

[01:32:20] Robbie: Hmm.

[01:32:20] ThePrimeagen: one, right? Zero,

[01:32:23] Robbie: Hmm.

[01:32:24] Chuck: yeah,

[01:32:24] Robbie: tailwind of whiskey, you would say. Ha ha ha


[01:32:28] ThePrimeagen: say that because that makes no sense. Okay. Okay. it really doesn't. make any sense here. Okay.

[01:32:33] Robbie: Yeah. I have to say tailwind as many times as I

[01:32:35] Chuck: He has a deal with Adam on the back end. It's, I



[01:32:39] ThePrimeagen: Adam is a great guy by the Yeah, yeah. out of, out of all open source creators, I've had a lot of fun with Adam and I think he's just a Just a swell fella.

You know what I mean? Just a swell fella.

[01:32:49] Chuck: there are a nice, good amount of nice, fun people in our industry. So I will say that.

[01:32:55] ThePrimeagen: So there's kind of two flavors that I get out of the Angel's Envy. There's [01:33:00] the non iced version, which is like right off the, you know, you pour it in, you put a little ice in, you take it, and it's like really intense. And the second one's more of like a a Gaussian distribution. You kind of get like, you almost kind of lose a lot of it what it is.

pretty quickly in ice. And so I'm not sure if that's like an intended purpose, whereas I feel like some hold their ability in ice longer. And so I would, I would actually give this like more of a five out of eight, Ooh. that it falls apart quicker Yeah, yeah. Okay. intended or not,

but. want to try that.

[01:33:31] Robbie: So we'll average that at a

[01:33:33] ThePrimeagen: It has a much different flavor kind of a ramp up and fall down when when you put a little ice in it

[01:33:38] Robbie: So let's try

the new England then and See how we feel.

[01:33:41] Chuck: Yeah.

[01:33:43] ThePrimeagen: I'm not there yet. I'm still consuming.

I've drank in way too much for this this fine evening

[01:33:51] Chuck: be a dad

today? Okay. Yeah. I'm, I am going to not be a father after this. So. I did we did we did

coder after this for sure. I'm 100 [01:34:00] percent done coding


[01:34:01] Robbie: Shepherd there's I'm actually gonna go back to coding I'm gonna do a neovim plug in right after this but The nice part is, is that we hired this, this kid named Xander, by the way. So, so interesting story about South Dakota. You may like this or not. South Dakota contains a school called the School of Mines.

[01:34:17] ThePrimeagen: A lot of schools, school mines kind of in this, this area. This whole side of the country. I don't know what it is about the school of minds, but like right down the middle America's line, there's a lot of these schools, right? Denver has one and they all tend to be really excellent schools. They tend to be like, if there was like a Ivy league of the Midwest, they tend to fall into it, all these school of minds and something that's very unique about rapid city, rapid city contains 50, 000 people, not a big, not a big city, there's been like 20.

ACM programming competitions for the global awards ever. And one of them has been held here on ironically six in a [01:35:00] row. They have gone to the globals for programming competitions, like the smartest kids you'll ever meet. Come out of Rapid City. It's, it's shocking how good the school actually is. It's so good that I'm actually willing.

I'm going to be, I'm going to be, I'm going to get in talks with them again this summer about actually doing a data structures course for them and actually live streaming it and trying to like build something up. Cause it's like the teacher there is awesome. Amazing, right? Like if you're going to go and you're going to do computer science, you should honestly do it here in Rapid City.

And I wouldn't, you would have never got that out of me. I would have thought, there's no way that South Dakota has anything, but I mean, there's only been 20 locations and a quarter of them has been, been in Russia, right? Like it usually, whenever you're doing some sort of data structure analysis, anything thing, it's always not here in middle America, but this one specific region just produces the greatest students ever.

And so it's like shocking because it's a very small

[01:35:55] Robbie: Hmm.

[01:35:56] ThePrimeagen: And so I just absolutely love by I [01:36:00] just I think it's just the greatest. And

[01:36:01] Robbie: Hmm.

[01:36:02] ThePrimeagen: want to kind of prop them up. And so if you didn't know that about Rapid City

lights out by accident,

[01:36:08] Chuck: feels

[01:36:08] Robbie: they

have the

[01:36:09] Chuck: overlap, right?

[01:36:10] ThePrimeagen: the the which which overlap,

[01:36:13] Chuck: climate overlap.

Cause you


[01:36:16] ThePrimeagen: I don't know what that means. Because we

[01:36:18] Chuck: Russia, very

[01:36:19] ThePrimeagen: that's that's coping system D. And sometimes like late stage C,

we're kind of more of an early stage C, like a C, a

[01:36:30] Robbie: all of the kids, when they're born, they give them the combinatorics for babies out there. And that's why they're, they're so good.

[01:36:35] ThePrimeagen: You think that's it?

All I know is I like I, I'm not I'm not kidding you. So I have I have gotten first place in regionals when it comes to the ACM program and competition. I never once qualified for globals. I got the highest rank that I know of at Montana State University for for programming competitions.

And that was super hard. So like, I mean, these kids

[01:36:57] Chuck: I'm just crushing it.

[01:36:59] Robbie: Yeah. [01:37:00] they're smart, right? They, they put me genuinely to shame and I studied hard for these programming competitions. Like, I was in there solving dynamic programming problems. I could do the coin change problem like that. Like, not even a pro like, it's just wild how

[01:37:12] ThePrimeagen: smart these

kids are. solved the traveling salesman problem,

[01:37:15] Robbie: hands down. are literally walking traveling salesmen.

All right, so let's let's try some New England here.

[01:37:23] ThePrimeagen: All right. Sorry, I'm a, I'm a talker more than


[01:37:29] Robbie: No, it's fine. I just want to make sure we pick

[01:37:31] ThePrimeagen: about

[01:37:32] Chuck: is, this is,

[01:37:33] ThePrimeagen: this is like, I'm so excited about that.

[01:37:35] Chuck: you know, isn't it interesting as we like talked about like react as a whole and sort of react Miami is like, we're brought together by this similar, I don't know, like correlation, it's so much more than that really it is. It's Yeah, it's but it

[01:37:54] Robbie: like web development Miami.

Yeah. like a cultural event.

[01:37:59] ThePrimeagen: [01:38:00] My, my assumption is by next year or two years from now, Michelle will rename this from React Miami to something more general because she brings in a lot of people that are, that are like way more like than just React Miami. They'll do like react from OCaml or even more. So just nothing to do with react, but like, like foundational material, like how the web works, it's like, it's, it's actually a really great conference and it's, it's, it's 100%.

The reason why I'm buying in is that she offers. Way more to the average person attending than you're going to get at most conferences. Because when you go to a conference, you get like a very one dimensional slice into a technology. Yeah Whereas it's, it feels more, it's almost like a horse, like it's a vertical slice into computer science.

And so I just absolutely love the whole experience. So very excited about it.

[01:38:49] Robbie: Yeah, yeah, like the syntax guys don't use react as a general rule. And they're like,

a big deal there.

[01:38:58] Chuck: session. yeah, [01:39:00]

[01:39:00] Robbie: so like, it's really about like, you know, all of us can do React, and we have opinions on it, but like, also, we all do web development, and let's just talk about that.

[01:39:09] ThePrimeagen: I think the thing is, is that react kind of spawned modern web development.

For better or for worse, like it spawned it spawned it. And it's like, because before that, we were all cowboys swinging our six shooters doing jQuery. And however, we felt something should be done. And they're the first people to put it on rails, right?

So it's like, well, here's web development on rails. And like, that's an extremely impressive feat, considering the state of web development. I'm not saying I'm happy where tools went. I'm not saying I'm happy that TypeScript exists. I'm not happy at all these kind of things. And I'm not even knocking against types.

You know, I love typed languages. Transcribed What I'm saying is that they actually were able to convince everybody who did something different to do something at least somewhat less different. Like that's, that's genuinely


[01:39:51] Chuck: get some conventions. I mean,

[01:39:54] Robbie: Yeah.

[01:39:54] Chuck: that at

[01:39:55] ThePrimeagen: over configuration is what they

say. And there's part of me that likes that. [01:40:00] Hashtag AmberJS, that's right. That's, dude, that is such an

So the 2011, shout out! Dude, like a lot of people don't know about that. But that's like such To this team, or to this day, like people don't realize Sorry, team, something popped up saying basketball notification.

So I

said team. But like to this day, people don't realize like a lot of these concepts that you're discovering today, like Like convention over configuration that calls back to like 15 years


[01:40:26] Robbie: It

[01:40:27] Chuck: Hundred percent.

[01:40:27] Robbie: and then ember and yeah,

all of those things, but okay, so I've, I've tried this new England one again.

[01:40:35] Chuck: Mm hmm.

[01:40:36] Robbie: I think this one is more like a seven for me.

[01:40:41] Chuck: Yeah, I'm in I'm in the Seven

Camp. than the, than the angels envy, which is a twist because I thought the angels envy was the best.

Mm hmm.

[01:40:50] Robbie: But I think, I think this is better for me.


[01:40:52] Chuck: I think this is

just, I think the Angel's Envy has a lot more sweetness to it, and it's easy, it's very approachable. I would, like, [01:41:00] recommend it for those reasons, but I think as far as interest and, like, robustness, and it just has, like, more to it. And it's, like, like Prime said, it sort of, like, starts and ends similarly.

Like New England for me.

[01:41:15] Robbie: Yeah, this is more robust. Yeah. Yes. Yep.

[01:41:19] Chuck: It's not just sweet.

[01:41:20] ThePrimeagen: So I had a little bit more of a unique experience. Maybe I had kind of like a sine wave maybe is the best way to put it is that it started off on like this and kind of intense, I wouldn't put a bitter, but like squeezy kind of experience to begin with. And then it went down and almost like disappeared.

I thought I was done with it. And then it came back and on the outsides of my tongue, it really lighted back up. Right.

And. Typically, when I have this kind of experience, I find myself more thirsty. And so I find that if I were to enjoy this New England drink, I would have to also enjoy it with a water of some sort.

And so I could not, I could not drink this without a backup. Whereas [01:42:00] the nice, nice job, everybody drinking, but like,

[01:42:03] Robbie: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[01:42:04] ThePrimeagen: sip on that by itself

[01:42:06] Robbie: Okay.

[01:42:07] ThePrimeagen: enjoy myself. Whereas with this New England, I feel like I, I, I need a co pilot, right?

[01:42:11] Robbie: Okay.

[01:42:12] ThePrimeagen: else there kind of with me or else I'm not going to be able to enjoy it nearly as


[01:42:16] Chuck: I

[01:42:17] Robbie: That's fair.

[01:42:18] Chuck: but I asked I I don't feel like that's a negative I

[01:42:22] Robbie: Yeah.

[01:42:22] Chuck: getting enough flavor

[01:42:23] Robbie: Like, unless you're on


[01:42:26] ThePrimeagen: I don't think it's a negative either.

[01:42:28] Robbie: no access to other drinks, like,

I think it, it's a negligible fact. Yeah,

[01:42:34] ThePrimeagen: But, but when I say, typically when I say negative, it's like, you know, it's something bad, right? But this is not a negative. It's more of a how you track the path, right? Some paths are more rough than others. And so this one's just like, if you don't come with an assistant. I think you won't enjoy yourself as much.

And so this, I think is maybe a longer sipper versus Angel Envy, maybe as a shorter sipper. Like I could just have that. And I wouldn't be able [01:43:00] to enjoy it as long, but I have to come like more with

[01:43:04] Chuck: Yeah,

[01:43:05] ThePrimeagen: This is the same. It's the same thing with cigars, some cigars, you'd be able to smoke just like the cigar itself.

And some, you have to have like a drink with it or else it's not as good, you know, like a, there's like, there's experiences that you kind of need.

[01:43:17] Robbie: Sure. So do you have a clear winner?

[01:43:22] ThePrimeagen: I'm going to go with new England

[01:43:26] Robbie: All


[01:43:27] ThePrimeagen: only because there's more to it. Even after the ice cubes,

[01:43:31] Chuck: yeah,

[01:43:32] Robbie: All right. Yeah, I think Chuck and I would agree. So,

[01:43:35] Chuck: yeah, know nothing it this New England is, but, do you have info on what it's called, Chuck, or how people can find it?

I will I put it in the show notes. You don't have it right now? cheers an exclamation point and

[01:43:54] Robbie: Single barrel straight. All right. So go to theprimebarrel. com and we will, by the time you're [01:44:00] there, we will have labeled it with The Primeagen and whiskey web and whatnot so you can find it. That is our pick and you can buy some and check it out

[01:44:10] Chuck: Yeah, sounds like fun

[01:44:11] ThePrimeagen: it. It was a

[01:44:13] Chuck: Yeah, I'll put a link

somewhere or something. so much more whiskey than usual this is Yeah. that I would want to do this every time

No, I only

[01:44:22] ThePrimeagen: a lot of whiskey, but you know, I was, I was in it. I was Yeah, yeah.

[01:44:27] Chuck: It's a lot of whiskey, it's whatever. But we, we got somewhere on a lot of

[01:44:33] Robbie: We did We did

[01:44:34] Chuck: Twitter, and this culture that we want to embrace, and, you know, foster forward in a good way. We're gonna fly fish.

And gonna hang

out in Miami. we're gonna have cigars in miami

Yep. Booyah.

[01:44:52] Robbie: And hang out with dax

[01:44:53] Chuck: Yeah.

[01:44:55] ThePrimeagen: Dax

is such a good guy. So Dax and I have [01:45:00] a and a few other people, TJ and you know, so it's, so it's not just me, Dax, Adam. If you don't know Adam Elmore and TJ and I will have a big announcement

during this time. I know, so I don't even know if this is coming out in time, so people may not even know that

[01:45:17] Chuck: Who knows?

Well, well, well my

[01:45:19] Robbie: stamina for

editing. Yeah.


Adam Elmore, yeah.

[01:45:24] Chuck: Yeah,

[01:45:25] ThePrimeagen: the, the, the ripped vegan jiu jitsu guy. Right?

I mean, if, imagine if he was cold plunge and stuff.

I cold plunge. I have a First off, I have a

cold plunge. Uh, I'm though. He put it online is like fancy,

Yeah, mine's like, gorillish. So, so, I live in a fancy ass house. But it's like also the opposite of fancy. So the person who built my house was a, can I curse on

this? He's a fucking nut bag, right? Like, so, so when I got in there, I, so here's the story I got, I got to tell the story.

So I walk into my house and, or at this [01:46:00] point it wasn't my house. I walk in and my wife's like, you're going to love this place. So I walk in, it's like cold. I remember how low the AC was. I just remember that day it felt cold and nipped at my skin. And I walked through and I remember looking at everything and like, okay, It's pretty nice.

Like a lot of good, good angles. I like everything about this. I'm walking through and I go into the master bedroom and I look like, so for those that don't know, we've done this on your podcast. I'm very anti porn, right? I mean, like

[01:46:27] Chuck: Yeah.

[01:46:27] ThePrimeagen: we've, we've covered that whole thing and I look over and boom, just teats and a motorcycle.

And I'm like, whoa,

I look over teats and A

motorcycle. I'm like, whoa, like vagine and a motorcycle. So I'm like, whoa, this is like so much,

very intense artwork in this. And so then I go into the bathroom, the bathroom above the shower says money shot and like graffiti. And he has I kid you not, I would do I will send you a picture so you can put this on the video podcast if you want to.

It is a it is a [01:47:00] penny chair, a chair where the outside is made of nothing but pennies. And on the top of it is a dollar sign made out of Nick our dimes And so it's just like, this is, this guy is obviously different.

And I walk out, and I'm just like, obviously, at this point I'm just like, what have I got myself into? This is a little weird. And I walk up and I see the guy, and the realtor is like, oh, here's the owner, so I go up to shake his hand. Because, you know, I'm kind of like a, you know, I'm a country boy at heart. I can't help it. And we start chatting. We have actually a pretty good time. Like, I genuinely like the guy.

I think he's a, he's an easy guy. I could get a beer with the guy, like I wouldn't go into business with the guy, but I could get, I could get a beer with the guy. And honestly, he does a great job as at business. I think we just approach it differently. But as far as like getting a beer with the guy, I actually think he's pretty nice to be around.

He, he knows how to, he knows how to talk and. He gets up there. He's like, ah, Hey, how's it going? I'm like, ah, Hey, how's it going? Howie. And he's like, shake hands. And then he's like, oh yeah. You [01:48:00] don't like, you know, the realtor, you know, he kept telling me to take down the pictures of my wife. I hope that didn't bother you when you went into my room and like, and I realized at that moment that I saw his wife naked before I met the man, which is a very unique experience to have.

Like most people don't meet somebody like in that kind of context. And then right afterwards, he's. He's just like, Oh yeah, by the way, my wife couldn't be here. She is rounding up some, she's, she, she's doing some FBI tasks right now. She's, she's a nice agent. So I'm like, okay.

[01:48:31] Chuck: Okay.

[01:48:32] ThePrimeagen: had like the most amount of information dump I've ever had in one moment of my lifetime.

I have an ICE agent who's naked on the wall with it with, with motorcycles and money shot above the shower. And this guy told me that the realtor didn't want it down. And I'm shaking hands and having a Bud Light with the guy. Like I'm, I'm super, like, I'm just like, this is the most confusing moment of my lifetime.

Like, who am I? What's happening? And so of course I had to buy the house at that point. Like, I [01:49:00] just knew it. I could feel it. You know, it, it was

right. were like, this

[01:49:03] Chuck: is

[01:49:03] Robbie: So you still got all the the penny chair and the money



you're, got, I still got the putty the, the penning chair, but I do not have the money shot. We oh, okay. over that. That was actually one of the requirements in the purchase is that the money shot must be painted over disrespectful. As my wife said, with her.

[01:49:20] Chuck: But still, you were like agree, but also,

[01:49:24] Robbie: that that was built into the contract.


[01:49:26] ThePrimeagen: It was built into the actual Yeah. Yeah. go

down. like, it's getting painted over, he can pay for it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Either way, it was going to get painted over. We already knew that was going to happen.

[01:49:40] Chuck: Yeah, that's fair.

[01:49:42] Robbie: Yeah. All right. Well, that was an interesting last point there. We are way over time. So I do want to give you a chance. Is there anything you want to plug before we end here?

[01:49:55] ThePrimeagen: Now,

I'm just happy to be here.

[01:49:58] Robbie: Yeah. the Prime [01:50:00] Barrel whiskey membership?

[01:50:02] ThePrimeagen: If there was something I were to plug, you know, Primeagen, Primeagen who streams on Twitch, commonly referred to as Amazon Prime, I would, I would personally plug the Prime Barrel

[01:50:16] Chuck: Mm hmm. at ThePrimeBarrel. com slash WhiskeyWeb and whatnot.

Sure, let's do that.

[01:50:22] Robbie: Well, I don't know what

the link is


[01:50:23] ThePrimeagen: about, how about, how about,

how about this

[01:50:25] Robbie: com.

[01:50:26] ThePrimeagen: How about ThePrimeBarrel.

com slash, by the way, BTW.

[01:50:32] Chuck: I like it. I think we can

[01:50:33] ThePrimeagen: That's a good one.

[01:50:34] Robbie: can, you can say whatever you want it to be and then we'll force them to make it be true. Yeah.

[01:50:40] ThePrimeagen: it's really

because by the way is the

[01:50:42] Robbie: Yeah.

[01:50:45] Chuck: Yeah.

[01:50:46] ThePrimeagen: I use

[01:50:48] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:50:49] ThePrimeagen: makes perfect sense. So there we go. Let's

let's do that Go to the one of those links one of those The the prime barrel dot com slash BTW

[01:50:58] Chuck: Yep,

[01:50:58] Robbie: It'll be there. [01:51:00] Hopefully by the time

this comes

out, yeah. Use

[01:51:05] Chuck: Miami.

[01:51:06] Robbie: Cause it already works as of today. So if this came out right this second, you could use it. So.

[01:51:11] ThePrimeagen: perfect you should make this come out early.

[01:51:13] Robbie: Yeah, I, I, I,

will. telling you what to how to live your life But you should

[01:51:18] Chuck: Yeah, you're right. not busy. I'll edit it. I'll get it. I'll get it out.


I get to it tonight. Thanks.

[01:51:23] Robbie: Yeah,

[01:51:24] Chuck: Thanks. Bye

[01:51:25] Robbie: Alright. Alright, thanks everyone for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe, leave some ratings, reviews, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Alright, we're done.

[01:51:31] ThePrimeagen: do it