Whiskey Web and Whatnot

A whiskey fueled fireside chat with your favorite web developers.


138: From Data Lakehouses to Penis Botox: An Unfiltered Journey through Tech and Life w/ Mal

Show Notes

In this episode of 'Whiskey Web and Whatnot', hosts RobbieTheWagner and Charles William Carpenter III (Chuck) kick things off by playfully anticipating Chuck's landscaper interruptions due to his Phoenix area recording location. They introduce their special guest, Mal (short for Malissa) from Canada, who shares about her career as an analytics engineer and her ventures into content creation.

The episode takes a fun turn into reviewing Rabbit Hole Cave Hill Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, discussing its unique mash bill, and sharing tasting notes despite Mal's limited whiskey experience. The conversation then transitions into various topics including the technicality of job titles in tech, hot takes on developer tools and practices, amusing personal anecdotes, and discussions on data, cooking, and their personal preferences in pets, tech tools, and lifestyle choices.

The episode is filled with light-hearted banter, insightful discussions on technology, personal stories, and a deep dive into the nuances of whiskey tasting.

Key Takeaways

  • [00:40] - Special Guest Introduction: Mal
  • [01:44] - Diving into Rabbit Hole Cave Hill Bourbon
  • [02:59] - Mal's Drink Preferences and Sugar Revelations
  • [07:04] - The Art of Tasting Whiskey
  • [09:05] - Shipping Alcohol Challenges and Canadian Living
  • [13:30] - Tech Talk: Hot Takes on Development Tools
  • [25:15] - Data Talk: Analytics Engineer Insights
  • [33:48] - Decoding Data Lakes vs. Data Warehouses
  • [34:37] - Celebrity Neighbors and Lakeside Living
  • [35:59] - Exploring Voice Flow and AI Automation
  • [36:24] - The Journey of Finding Passion Projects
  • [38:42] - AI Misconceptions and Realities
  • [46:37] - Navigating Remote Work and Team Dynamics
  • [46:49] - The Quest for the Perfect Home Office Setup
  • [54:48] - Culinary Adventures and the Costco Hotdog Dilemma
  • [01:01:06] - Reflections on Personal Branding and Online Presence


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[00:00:05] Robbie: What's going on everybody. Welcome to Whiskey Web and whatnot with your hosts, Robbie the Wagner and Charles William Carpenter the third. Today. We're going to see if we can hear Chuck's landscapers or not.

Our, our game.

[00:00:18] Chuck: that's a big game lately. Yeah based on my current recording location, I am closer in proximity to landscapers in, throughout all of the Phoenix area, apparently. They just do a little drive by whenever I'm recording, and you get a wooooooom. So we'll see. Maybe if you're lucky or not this time.

[00:00:38] Robbie: Yeah. We have a special guest today. Mal, what's going on?

[00:00:43] Mal: Hello, I am excited to be here.

[00:00:47] Robbie: Yeah. We're excited to have you. Can you give the folks at home a few sentences about who you are and what you do?

[00:00:53] Mal: Yeah, so my name is Mal, short for Melissa. I'm from Canada. I'm an analytics [00:01:00] engineer, just a developer, and I guess I'm exploring content creation as well. I don't know, even what I do.

[00:01:07] Chuck: Nice. That's like a thing in Canada, right? You can't be called an engineer anymore unless you have like an engineering specific degree. And so you have to be developer. They've really like zoned in on that. Yeah.

[00:01:19] Mal: Like they have that rule and I think you have to have a license or something like that They don't actually come after you. I think like my company has called us engineers, but I would just say developer online Now

[00:01:42] Robbie: Chuck, you want to tell us about it?

[00:01:43] Chuck: Fair enough. Okay, today we're having the Rabbit Hole Cave Hill Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. 95 proof, so a little higher, but not crazy. Aged over three years and has a mash bill of 70 percent corn, 10 percent malted [00:02:00] wheat, 10 percent malted barley,

[00:02:03] Robbie: Malted wheat.

[00:02:04] Chuck: Yeah, so what is that? And 10 percent honey malted barley.

So they have a real mix of things in the way that they're trying to enhance the flavors of the grains.

[00:02:14] Robbie: I wish they had malted it more.

[00:02:16] Chuck: yeah, like, oh, could we get more malt in this? So yeah, bottled by the Rabbit Hole Distillery in Louisville, Kentucky. I don't know if it's made there or not, but, anyway. You know they sponsor Gin Whiskey Ginger.

They're like the main sponsor. Which is another podcast with a

[00:02:35] Robbie: Yeah. Which I'm sure mal listens to all the time being not a drinker.

[00:02:39] Mal: this is the only whiskey podcast I listen to

[00:02:43] Chuck: Okay, that's right. You get your whiskey knowledge direct from the

[00:02:46] Mal: Yes. It does smell good though.

[00:02:52] Chuck: Nice waft about it. Let's see here. We've [00:03:00] had a couple of theirs before, and that's why I picked it as as I think something for someone who doesn't drink, Whiskey very often, if at all. You said like not much in spirits, but what would you have normally? Like a tequila or something?

[00:03:16] Mal: yeah, I think if I am drinking, I like gin the best or

tequila. Yeah.

[00:03:21] Chuck: yeah. I like gin. And I need something very different from whiskey if I'm gonna, like, stray away.

[00:03:30] Mal: What would be very different from whiskey?

[00:03:34] Chuck: Gin. Gin is a good start. I think it's very different from whiskey with that whole, like, floral herbaceousness to it. Sometimes a little citrus. My go to drink is a Negroni. Which is like, yeah, a mix between that floral, a little sweet, a little bitter. It's also very strong, so I wouldn't have more than two of those.

But yeah. That's my jam. Right.

[00:03:58] Mal: but I had no idea for like [00:04:00] a year I was drinking so many of them. I didn't know that tonic had so much sugar just like any other soda. I thought it was like soda water and I stopped drinking them.

[00:04:09] Chuck: Yeah, that's fair. They make diet ones that are okay. What is that nice brand? There's like a really nice brand and they make a diet one. And I will try to get that sometimes. Yes.

Boom. Their stuff is good and they make a diet. So, I don't know. Not that you're old like me and need that probably, but I have to consider that.

I have a very slow metabolism, so. All right, so about this whiskey. I do smell a lot of sweetness. I'm trying to like narrow it in

[00:04:41] Robbie: I did eat a bag of gummy bears before this, so I'm unsure if I'm getting that or . It smells a little bit candy like to me.

[00:04:49] Chuck: If you can't tell Robbie doesn't give a shit about sugar he will have it all he'll eat a

[00:04:55] Robbie: Yeah, listen, you could die tomorrow, right? Like,

[00:04:57] Chuck: yeah

[00:04:58] Robbie: out today though.

[00:04:59] Chuck: [00:05:00] What'd you do?

[00:05:01] Robbie: What did I do to work out? I did squats and bench and barbell row.

[00:05:07] Chuck: Sweet, bro

[00:05:08] Mal: Nice.

[00:05:09] Robbie: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:05:19] Chuck: it's all made up anyway. So you sort of like, you smell, you know, people do it with wine, another thing, coffee is actually even two, and you'll just kind of, you know, see what, what connects in your brain.

And that's the right answer. My answer is different from yours, it's different from Robbie's, and it all kind of, until we like, influence you by saying things, so.

[00:05:38] Mal: Mm hmm. Oh, I've actually been to a wine tasting where someone there was saying that he got hints of whatever in the What is it? Somalia? He was like, no, there's none of that in there and just like shut him down. I was like, oh god

[00:05:54] Chuck: Elitist pricks.

[00:05:57] Robbie: I think it's a little bit subjective, [00:06:00] so,

[00:06:00] Chuck: Yeah. Well, I think folks educated in like a sommelier or educated in, in whiskey and like, you know, it's part of their job or whatever else, I think they start to agree on a common vernacular. And then that's sort of their right answer. But in general, you're just coming up with other sensory words that make sense to you.

And I'm not like on the end with that inside vernacular. So what I say is like, Oh, that smells like honeysuckle is probably lavender to. You know, to, to experts or whatever, connoisseurs, I know what I like and I can just derive based on previous experience, but it doesn't mean I really know shit for anyone else. Yeah, this one's really mild to me actually. I get a little bit of like, almost like flat orange crush with like a slight cinnamon. Yeah, you know

[00:06:56] Robbie: Yeah, once you said that, I can taste that, yeah.

[00:06:59] Chuck: [00:07:00] Yeah.

[00:07:00] Mal: Is there a method to tasting whiskey

[00:07:04] Chuck: Mm hmm.

[00:07:06] Mal: perhaps.

[00:07:07] Chuck: There is, and it's not that dissimilar. So we, like, have these glasses. It's like a Glencarne shape, and it's supposed to, like, help the alcohols not,

not, you know, go straight to your nose. Yeah, like,

[00:07:19] Mal: Oh, so

[00:07:20] Chuck: Slightly.

[00:07:21] Mal: this, this cup was not recommended.

[00:07:23] Chuck: No, that cup's fine. No, that's fine. That's

actually better.

[00:07:27] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:07:30] Chuck: you need that for?

[00:07:31] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:07:34] Chuck: those from Jay? I mean, all bears are Jay as far as I'm The Jay, like the J H E Y guy who does like amazing CSS stuff on Twitter.

[00:07:43] Mal: I'm not sure I know who that is actually.

[00:07:46] Chuck: Mmm. If you're interested in like crazy CSS tricks.

[00:07:50] Robbie: he

Animation and

[00:07:51] Chuck: cool animations.

[00:07:53] Mal: Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, I do follow a couple people. I don't use it at all myself, but I do find it fun to look at.

[00:07:59] Chuck: yeah, [00:08:00] kinda same. So there's that, and then you put your nose This is also very much like a wine thing where you like put your nose and Breathe through your mouth, so you don't take in so much.

[00:08:12] Mal: do enjoy the smell of it though.

[00:08:14] Chuck: Yeah, yeah, it has a nice smell. It's like kind of sweet and pleasant there. And then you're supposed to sort of like prime your taste buds. Is it chewing your whiskey? So the first drink, you take some and you kind of swish it around to activate your salivatory glands because it's getting this like strong alcohol.

So that will coat that a little bit, get them activated. And then your next taste, then you'll be able to pick up more

[00:08:41] Mal: Ooh.

[00:08:42] Chuck: Cause it, yeah, that's fair. We, we've we've sent out higher proofs, so I was, I was mindful of, like, you know, what, what I thought would be a more, like, neutral palette and, you know, not super weak, [00:09:00] but not crazy. Yeah.

[00:09:03] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:09:05] Chuck: it in Canada, that was also, like, a third requirement, is

[00:09:08] Mal: hmm.

[00:09:09] Robbie: man.

[00:09:09] Chuck: get that. I

[00:09:10] Robbie: Turns out it's hard to ship alcohol to other countries.

[00:09:13] Chuck: yeah. Yeah. It's actually really easy to do it in the UK because I found a company that will take Freedom Dollars and then let me send, but in it's really hard.

[00:09:26] Mal: I don't

[00:09:28] Chuck: A

[00:09:32] Robbie: Yeah, I don't

[00:09:33] Chuck: lot of it has to do with like the regulation countrywide and like this, you know, the government sponsored stores and I don't know.

weird. But

[00:09:47] Mal: it's just different from the rest of Canada. Annoying. Mm hmm. I love it here, but it was, it's hard.

[00:09:54] Chuck: Yeah. So you like cold weather?

[00:09:57] Mal: I hate cold weather. [00:10:00] So I was, I know, I was in Vancouver. Quite expensive, but I love the city. I liked, I wanted the European, like, inspiration of Quebec though. And I actually, I like how they live here. I like the French, how they live life. It's a lot of fun. It's less about work. I think like that stereotype is pretty true.

If I could have the people of Montreal, but the city of Vancouver, that would be the

[00:10:25] Chuck: Oh, that's

[00:10:25] Mal: it's not really pretty here.

[00:10:28] Chuck: Oh, also, wait, I think I saw this. Como te apetece?

[00:10:35] Mal: I know like nothing.

[00:10:37] Chuck: Oh, okay. I know, I know from like, middle school and high school kind of stuff, so,

and I'll rem

[00:10:45] Mal: to learn it.

[00:10:46] Chuck: Mm. Well, Vancouver, right? You wouldn't

[00:10:49] Mal: Well, I grew up in Edmonton. So I'm used to the cold, cause it's quite cold there. And then I got away from it, and then I came back. I was not excited about [00:11:00] winter.

[00:11:00] Chuck: Hm. That's fair. You know what helps when it's cold?

[00:11:03] Mal: Whiskey.

[00:11:05] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:11:06] Chuck: Whiskey


[00:11:07] Mal: warm already from

[00:11:08] Chuck: Yeah, it's called the hug. It warms you from the inside. That's what I call it. I think I made that up. Yeah, it's trademarked. So Don't go making shirts with

[00:11:18] Mal: Mmm.

[00:11:20] Chuck: Anyway, so we have a highly sophisticated rating system.

It is because we are developers. It is zero to eight tentacles. Zero being horrible. You'd never have this again. Eight being amazing. You'll probably never have any other alcohol or spirit again which is probably like overselling it. I'm not sure that's exactly what it means, but four is


[00:11:45] Robbie: the best


[00:11:46] Chuck: not terrible. So, and I won't make you go first. So you can ponder that scale. I will make Robbie go first, though, I think.

[00:11:57] Robbie: Okay.

[00:11:58] Chuck: Cause he's got his emo, [00:12:00] beanie on.

[00:12:01] Robbie: Listen, I'm just channeling myself from 10 years ago. It's okay.

[00:12:05] Chuck: hmm. Yeah.

[00:12:05] Robbie: Or more years than that. I don't know how fucking old I am now. Anyway, this is pretty good. It's not compared to the other rabbit hole, the Derringer that we liked. I don't think it's as good. But, I wouldn't avoid it. I would give it a solid 5.

7, I think.

[00:12:24] Chuck: Mm. 5. 7. Yeah. Okay. I I, I agree with you. It's, it's actually like, it's strong, but it is overall a bit milder and I was only catching a couple of flavors here. So the other one that we had, I think was the dinger. And it's finished in a wine barrel or like a port

or some Canberra. Yeah, so it's finished in a wine barrel, so it has like some interesting roundness to that.

So probably would prefer that one. I would give this just a flat five. I'd give it a five. It's better than average. It's very drinkable. [00:13:00] Alright.

[00:13:00] Mal: well, in my limited experience, I think because it's actually not that hard to drink, I was going to say like a six or six and a half because, well, I guess I don't even know what other whiskey I would recommend, but I think if I saw it on a menu and someone was debating, I'd be like, oh, that was easy to drink.

I would recommend that. Mm

[00:13:18] Chuck: Yeah. There you go. See? This whole thing is subjective, so I think that's pretty good criteria there. So, I did a good job is what you're saying. You're welcome.

[00:13:27] Mal: you.


[00:13:30] Chuck: should talk a little tech. Right?

[00:13:33] Mal: hmm.

[00:13:34] Chuck: Hot takes, hot takes.

[00:13:36] Mal: Ooh, I love hot takes.

[00:13:37] Chuck: Yeah, well let's see here. Oh my gosh.

[00:13:43] Robbie: Did you just read the list?

[00:13:45] Chuck: I just read the list now. Yeah,

Robbie, so we have show notes and Robbie made some edits. So I'll just start at the top of the list. Maybe you can go further


[00:13:56] Robbie: our way down,


[00:13:58] Chuck: get rebase or [00:14:00] get merge.

[00:14:02] Mal: Which one am I picking? Rebase.

[00:14:08] Chuck: or git merge? Solid. I like how you just leaned into it. Rebase, you're all, mergers are stupid. Yeah.

[00:14:20] Robbie: VS Code or NeoVim?

[00:14:23] Mal: Oh my god, BS Code.

[00:14:26] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:14:29] Mal: Easy one.

[00:14:30] Robbie: Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. I feel like the people that use Vim, like, flex on everybody else, and

[00:14:35] Chuck: Exactly.

[00:14:36] Mal: do!

[00:14:37] Chuck: Yeah, yeah. I'm glad you're good with it. It wouldn't make

[00:14:41] Robbie: yeah,

[00:14:43] Chuck: why I choose a different tool. Sidebar on the or right in VS Code.

[00:14:53] Mal: Oh my god, the left. Do people do

the right?

[00:14:56] Chuck: Yes,

[00:14:57] Robbie: do, yeah.

[00:14:58] Mal: seen this.

[00:14:59] Chuck: it. [00:15:00] Yeah.

[00:15:00] Robbie: Yeah, so I, I got feedback because we talked about this in another one and someone said it's because when they show and hide the sidebar, which I never do, I just keep it open, their code doesn't jump around if it's on the right side, like the code will always be left

[00:15:16] Chuck: What an arbitrary reason. I don't want to

see the transition. Yeah, I do hide that. Sometimes just to get it. I'm very blind. I make my text very big and people make fun of me for it. And that just gives me a little more real estate, especially if I don't have a big screen. If I'm just on the laptop, I want to like plus plus and I would just get that out of the way.

So I do command P to like sort through and like jump to files a lot. Anyway, this isn't about me. Okay.

[00:15:46] Mal: the left. It makes sense. It's like the way you read, the side you drive. Like, I just think it's normal to look on the left.

[00:15:53] Chuck: Yeah.

It's not very European of you though, to not want to drive on the right. I'm just

[00:15:59] Mal: [00:16:00] Well

[00:16:00] Robbie: the UK or is there other places?

[00:16:03] Mal: I don't know.

[00:16:04] Chuck: No, there are other places. Spain, I think. So it's the UK for sure. I think Spain. I know it's not Italy. know, I only rode bikes in Amsterdam, so I don't know. Anyway.

[00:16:18] Mal: I think actually, I don't know how, how I can't remember this, but I think Thailand might. I've been there like countless times, and for some reason I can't remember what side of the road

we drive on. No. No. Hmm. But

[00:16:41] Robbie: of like, actually the left side makes more sense, I think. Because of the reasoning of why they did that, which I don't want to be a complete history nerd and like, go too much into this, but it's because like, you could sword fight when you pass someone

[00:16:57] Chuck: It's like jousting. Yeah. So it's like, [00:17:00] jousting equivalent in a car.

[00:17:02] Robbie: Yeah, so


[00:17:04] Chuck: can't you do that the other way

[00:17:05] Robbie: So why did we switch that I guess people weren't fighting on horses as much don't know

[00:17:11] Chuck: Yeah. Like, because, and you want to use your right hand versus your left hand, cause the inverse, the normal way would force you to use your left hand as your joust hand, which

[00:17:22] Robbie: Right

[00:17:22] Chuck: future leaders of the world are left handed. So it just wouldn't work out.

[00:17:27] Mal: if you're driving on the other side, the right side Then I could use my dominant hand. So it kind of makes sense to actually be on the other side. Ha ha ha

[00:17:38] Robbie: I followed that but yes the your dominant hand Like you want to be able to sword fight with your dominant hand. So it's like It

[00:17:45] Mal: I'm think

[00:17:45] Robbie: or right handed, but yeah

[00:17:46] Mal: Mm hmm. Ha ha ha ha

[00:17:49] Chuck: we go.

TBD on that one, I


[00:17:52] Mal: ha ha.

[00:17:54] Chuck: here's one. What do you think? Oh wait, I think this is Robbie's question.

[00:17:59] Robbie: [00:18:00] Oh, yeah,

i'm gonna skip this one

[00:18:01] Chuck: his hair.

[00:18:02] Robbie: go sequel or no sequel?

[00:18:05] Chuck: Squeal.

[00:18:07] Mal: Ah, sequel. No strong opinions.

[00:18:11] Robbie: Okay, not a very hot take. You should tell

[00:18:15] Chuck: yeah.

[00:18:15] Mal: that's

[00:18:16] Robbie: no suck and

[00:18:18] Mal: Mm


[00:18:20] Chuck: or no squeal? And you

say, Squeal?

[00:18:23] Mal: Not a very hot take.

[00:18:24] Chuck: Yeah. Okay, what's worse? A PM or a magician? What's the

difference? Worst of all?

[00:18:32] Mal: a PM.

[00:18:33] Chuck: Mmm, project manager or a product manager?

[00:18:37] Mal: Project.

[00:18:39] Chuck: Yeah, yeah, project managers are such an archaic you know, ideological artifact of 20 years ago that they keep trying to make happen. Stop, stop trying to make Fetch


[00:18:52] Mal: trying to make PMs happen.

[00:18:54] Chuck: yeah, it's not gonna happen.

[00:18:56] Mal: I feel bad, because I think that [00:19:00] there's something wrong with him. I think it's just because of his role, but if I joined stand up and he's the only one there, I've, like, physically been like, Ugh. Like, I won't say good morning until everyone else is there.

[00:19:12] Chuck: Right, right. Yeah, I was gonna say, does anyone else show up eventually? Cause you gotta figure then, and you know, there's the whole pigs and chicken analogy to Scrum. And he's very much a chicken, so if the pigs aren't there, you


[00:19:26] Mal: I don't know this. I

[00:19:27] Chuck: You don't know

this? Okay, so there's this, maybe it's an old Agile Scrum thing or whatever, but it's like the pigs and chickens analogy because what is it?

To that chickens are involved but pigs are committed because pigs get slaughtered. You know, kind of thing, so you're like, you're So if you are on the team,

[00:19:45] Robbie: too

[00:19:46] Chuck: no, not, not in the breakfast analogy. So, chickens

give you the eggs,

[00:19:52] Mal: eggs.

[00:19:53] Chuck: comes, sorry, yeah, that, that's an important nuance to bear in mind. So for [00:20:00] breakfast, pigs and chickens, so the pigs are


not just,

[00:20:04] Robbie: is delicious.

[00:20:05] Chuck: don't, don't derail, yeah, don't, don't derail me, here, I'm on a, I'm on a roll. Yeah, the whole ideology in a scrum is that chickens, anyone can come to a stand up, but the pigs are the ones who, you know, talk about what they did. They get their value and they get out. It's a short thing. If anybody tries to be like, Oh, well, I'm a PM and I want to know about blah, blah, blah. Okay. Well you, you, you sidebar that because you're not the important person in this particular meeting

anyway. Yeah, pigs and chickens. Look it up. There are, there's a whole thing about this. You can find comics, you can find, yeah, whatever. I'm glad Robbie gets to say this next one though. You

[00:20:52] Mal: Oh no.

[00:20:53] Robbie: I did.

[00:20:54] Chuck: you.

[00:20:54] Robbie: Yeah. was penis Botox a mistake?

[00:20:59] Mal: [00:21:00] It was not. The one centimeter was worth it.

[00:21:03] Robbie: Okay.

[00:21:04] Chuck: Okay. Yeah, yeah, so


[00:21:10] Mal: Oh my god,

[00:21:11] Chuck: Johnson. Yeah, I mean he's insane in general and I mean there was a whole other post where he was like talking about how his, Sleep time boner boners have gone up like the frequency of them.

And there's a measurement of that.

All I want to know is how do you, yeah.

How do you measure that though? Like what's the device or job who just comes with a, you know, Oh, yep. Looks like there's one there now. Still there. Yeah. Good to go. Yeah. Like what are the penis boner monitor? Like where's that's a startup. Maybe that's a startup. I don't know.

[00:21:50] Robbie: Boner monitor AI. Let's let's

[00:21:52] Mal: my god. I don't even remember why he got it. I just remember the one centimeter and him being like post [00:22:00] injection massage. I'm like kind of weird you told everyone you got jerked off.

[00:22:03] Chuck: You're right, yeah, and like eight weeks of this too, by the way, you know, you're like, but I

Yeah, it was like a whole thing. So it took, that was the other thing. It's like, you're gonna go and get needles there and just do a whole bunch of things that does, that doesn't sound great to me. But okay, you opt in and then it was like eight weeks and then the centimeter increase and I'm, I'm thinking, I don't think that's changing anyone's life. You know, you're not getting on video for that, you know? So yeah, it was just such a weird thing.

[00:22:38] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:22:39] Chuck: Oh, the next one is me. Dogs or cats?

[00:22:42] Mal: Oh, dogs. Very

[00:22:45] Robbie: that's the correct answer.

[00:22:47] Mal: You guys both have dogs then?

[00:22:49] Robbie: I do. Chuck, well, yeah, Chuck had, I'll tell Chuck's story. Chuck had cats and was super allergic to them and had to get rid of them.

[00:22:58] Chuck: [00:23:00] TLDR

[00:23:00] Robbie: my dogs, but I don't get rid of them.

[00:23:02] Chuck: I'm allergic to everything but this grew over time And I lived with cats for 8 years I did my time And I had this like crazy surgery and all this stuff And tests done and they were like Yeah, you really, unless you want to do this again You're, you really shouldn't live with pets And I'm like, just like any pets I'm not, you know, hypoallergenic I like animals But It just

[00:23:25] Robbie: like you

[00:23:26] Chuck: yeah, and they were like, no, zero.

I mean, if you want to have a zero chance of this surgery again, you just, zero.

So, yeah. Again,

[00:23:37] Mal: all. Oh

[00:23:43] Chuck: Arizona, where, like, you can adopt desert tortoises, which, they live like a hundred years, and, like, it would be really cool when we have some friends that

have them, just. Yeah, they definitely outlive you and then let the next owner figure it out their problem, but we have some friends that have a couple and yeah, they're really [00:24:00] cool and chill and giant. They're like dinosaurs, but we are nomadic people, the carpenters, and I want to GTFO and pets make that harder.

It's, you know, they let, they let kids in and out of countries a lot easier than they do pets. So, you know, it's kind of like no brainer.

[00:24:21] Robbie: big turtle.

[00:24:23] Chuck: Yeah, exactly. Well, I thought about getting them anyway and giving them to my father in law. Just because, like, that's just fun. But

[00:24:30] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:24:31] Chuck: that's tangential. So, I like


[00:24:34] Mal: to your most least favorite person.

[00:24:37] Chuck: Yeah. That's so many people these days, though. So, it's just, you know. I don't know how many turtles am I gonna get, you know? It'll be a big surprise one day when a turtle shows up to Robbie's house and he's like, I thought we were close, bro. I don't know.

[00:24:54] Robbie: used to have a turtle. And

gave that

[00:24:57] Chuck: wasn't like,

[00:24:58] Robbie: it was a little [00:25:00] bigger. But yeah, it wasn't as big as what you're

describing. But Well, yeah, it was about about a centimeter bigger than what you're talking about. Yeah,

[00:25:11] Chuck: anyway, so here's what I want to know. What exactly does an analytics engineer do? And analytics developer too,

[00:25:21] Mal: oh, that's the thing. It's actually a side note. I feel like analytics engineer sounds. Analytics developer just doesn't roll off the tongue. But

[00:25:30] Robbie: Oh,

[00:25:36] Mal: like ELT pipeline. I feel like we don't do actually much of setting up the extraction, like getting the data into our warehouse.

We have like a platform team for that. Although, some people on the team like dabble in that. I don't really want to deal with AWS, so I don't do that. So we mostly do like the T, like transformation. So we like [00:26:00] clean stuff up, make new models, basically do things that we might not trust an analyst with to make the best, like data, data decisions.

I think they kind of stick to making analyses on top of other dashboards. So we're like kind of in between, yeah, I would say a cross between data engineer and data analyst.

[00:26:24] Chuck: Yeah, that kind of makes sense. In my mind, it seemed kind of like a business operations kind of thing. Give or take. Sort of like, create tools to give them more options in terms of like, data and analysis. Right?

[00:26:40] Mal: Yeah, I think if I had to put it like in the most simple terms is people will ask us questions and we will answer it by building new assets. So, you know, like combining information from different tables and giving them a new product that answers their question directly. So I basically just do SQL like 90 percent of my job is [00:27:00] SQL.

The rest is maybe a bit of Python, maybe a bit of like supporting in like the dashboard or the pipeline stuff, but just kind of coding SQL all day long.

[00:27:11] Chuck: Hmm. So you also hate semicolons.

[00:27:16] Mal: Oh my god.

[00:27:17] Chuck: No semicolons, no brackets. It really is.

[00:27:25] Robbie: I love punctuation. Give us more punctuation.

[00:27:29] Chuck: Yeah, it's the number one reason why Robbie would never touch Python. Never look at a Django project. Anything else. He's just like Which,

I, I like Python. Python is like, speaking a little bit. Yeah, it's like, it's closer to

language. Tabs

[00:27:47] Robbie: Well,

[00:27:52] Chuck: How

[00:27:52] Mal: your tabs.

[00:27:53] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:27:55] Robbie: that too, but I see, I don't space anything, like I just [00:28:00] write it as a big gross line and then auto format it

[00:28:02] Mal: hmm.

[00:28:05] Chuck: and Prettier saves

[00:28:06] Robbie: yeah, oh yeah, prettier is the best.

[00:28:09] Chuck: Anyway.

[00:28:12] Robbie: Yeah. So follow up question, what's the difference between a data warehouse and a data lake? Okay.

[00:28:22] Mal: my god,

[00:28:23] Chuck: Marketing.

[00:28:25] Robbie: answer, so you can say whatever you want.

[00:28:28] Chuck: Wrong.

[00:28:29] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:28:30] Mal: Honestly, I don't have to deal with this like at all. have no idea

[00:28:35] Robbie: okay. I don't either. I just, there was a big meeting that I didn't pay attention to where we were discussing this at one point and we ultimately settled on a data lake house, which is apparently a thing and sounds really cool. And it's a mix of data warehouse and data lake is a data lake.

[00:28:50] Mal: I've never heard of lake house. I love it

Though. I think my problem is that Being a self taught developer [00:29:00] is that there are so many things that I haven't learned because like, you know, I didn't take a course, like it's just all through work. So there are a lot of terms that we don't use at work or are like company specific.

So I've actually, I've been in an interview where they will ask me something like that, that I should know, but because it's just never come up at work, it's kind of like, Hey, we have a data warehouse. I'm like, okay. And no one has ever said like the words data, like to me. And when someone asked me that question, I'm like, No idea because we don't talk about it at work.

And so one of my issues, yeah, when I was even just trying to transition from an analyst to a developer is kind of like the lingo felt like they were gatekeeping

[00:29:40] Chuck: Mm


[00:29:42] Mal: people would ask me questions using like data terms, but I just didn't know them as that. And I could be doing something for like the past year, but I don't know what it's called.

And when you asked me in an interview, I'll be like, I don't know what you mean, but it could be something that I'm still very good at.

[00:29:57] Chuck: Yeah, yeah.

[00:29:58] Robbie: I think that's a big [00:30:00] problem of like Uh, you don't know what you don't know. So like, how would you know to even look up what is this thing called? Because it's like, you don't know that it has a term like there, I don't know how you get around that other than just like people telling you, like, you know, I don't know, pairing with other people and like watching what they do and being like, what do you call that?

Or whatever. But like, I feel like that's a big problem for people learning is like, you know, they can probably do most of the work, but yeah, they can't, Use the same vernacular as like what someone else might or

[00:30:33] Chuck: Yeah, and I'd almost say that, like, even a formal education in that path may not fill those voids, because oftentimes, you know, universities, colleges, or whatever, are behind what is happening currently, like Lakehouse. Do you think any, any college course is covering Lakehouse? I would be really surprised.

And so then it's more of a like an experience and tenure kind of thing [00:31:00] and just being in the industry in general, like going to conferences and learning about new products and like, you know, applying the, because I'm sure that's just another tool. That you can apply the skills you already have on. So, you know, it's just a matter of just getting exposure So that's almost like just time and tenure to a degree

[00:31:22] Mal: Yeah, I agree. I used to keep, like, a running, like, notepad of words that I would hear in, in, like, a meeting or something and go look them up after.

[00:31:31] Chuck: Yeah

[00:31:32] Mal: So that's kind of how I learned, like, new, maybe data specific terms. But besides that, like, if I don't have to use it at work and no one's ever said it, I don't really feel a need to go look up I don't even know how I would look these things up, you know, like a data glossary, like, I don't know.

So there's so many things that I don't know. And I think it has made my imposter syndrome a lot worse than if I had like gotten a degree or something. So that's definitely something I would say is a con to being self taught, [00:32:00] but. I just try not to let it get to me. Like I can do my job perfectly fine.

[00:32:04] Chuck: Yeah, for sure. I'm self taught and I think that Yeah, I mean I can understand some of that obviously I wasn't I'm not in the same position doing the same things as you you know by all means but You I just think that, you can get the tools to get the job done, and you have passion and aptitude. I respect that a lot.

And I think that goes a long way, and the blanks will just get filled in, really.

[00:32:34] Mal: Yeah. Like it's been, it's been three years and I, I've done my job. I've been promoted and I can't tell you the difference between a lake and a warehouse.


[00:32:44] Chuck: You know what? Neither can I.

[00:32:46] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:32:47] Chuck: you know, so,

[00:32:48] Robbie: I bet most people can't I want to I want to try this so we post questions on spotify when we publish these I'm going to ask what's the difference? And I want someone to tell me [00:33:00] without looking it up. If you don't already know, don't look it up. So I want to see how many people actually know or have a guess.

Feel free to guess. Yeah.

[00:33:10] Chuck: that term, it was actually through the product Snowflake. And that was an engineering manager for like a big marketing, like, analytics product. And a data lake was just where we dumped a bunch of stuff. So we would like, take all the data from other places and throw it there.

And this snowflake thing would do some magic for us to let us like run some additional analysis on it. But I, I never even like thought the question. I was like, okay, big lake to me is just a larger footprint. So it looks like we're just going to put everything there and it can handle it. And it could probably handle these queries a little faster or something of that nature.

a total guess. I never thought to look it up at the


[00:33:56] Robbie: guess is it's less structured. Like a warehouse sounds like [00:34:00] you can go to a row and a column and like

[00:34:02] Chuck: Right, right, and the



[00:34:03] Robbie: is like, ah, data,

like yeah,

[00:34:06] Chuck: elastic graphs tossed together? I don't know.

[00:34:09] Robbie: I don't know. It

[00:34:10] Mal: I was going to guess and I was going to say, I don't know, maybe the data lake is just us storing like random crap in like S3, but we're not. pulling it into our warehouse where we like, yeah, like you said, kind of it's structured. It's like all the stuff we're doing our analytics on. A lake is just kind of a resource stuff and we might bring it in as a structured table or something or not.

[00:34:31] Chuck: Yeah,

[00:34:32] Mal: could be way off.

[00:34:34] Robbie: sounds reasonable.

[00:34:35] Chuck: of us could be way off. Who knows, you know? It's so a lake is a place that is a smaller body

of water that people get boats

[00:34:43] Robbie: wakeboard? Yeah.

[00:34:46] Chuck: I think it's weird I don't know. It's very Sure, yeah, that thing. A lake, another thing about a lake, George Clooney lives on a lake.

I want to move to that town. That's [00:35:00] another thing about


[00:35:01] Robbie: next door to him?

[00:35:02] Chuck: Probably not his

[00:35:04] Robbie: door is probably pretty cheap.

[00:35:06] Chuck: yeah. He's on a part that doesn't have a lot of houses next to it. So that's just, I think that's, you know, I have been, so there's like a little villa or whatever. So you like can go past George's house. And then there's a little villa there with like a strip of like, you know, a butcher and a couple little marketplaces and then small houses, probably generational houses.

But for the most part, you're not getting near George. I'll go. I have a better chance go seeing his dad. Yeah. In Augusta, Kentucky, by the way. So we're from the same area. Not me and Robbie, but George and I. You could probably tell, you know, it's like George

[00:35:45] Robbie: No, I was gonna say, you really

can, like, Like, you guys both don't age.

I don't get, like, I feel like I feel older than you most of the time.

[00:35:55] Chuck: just looks just looks. Okay, so I do. [00:36:00] So technology things. So you have some tutorials around voice flow, actually, when I first came across your program. I was, I was like, Oh, she works at voice flow, but you don't work at voice flow. You, you just like to like build some things there and then you're helping others build things there by creating tutorials.

So can you tell us a little about that?

[00:36:23] Mal: Yeah. So I actually don't do that much anymore. I think I was looking for like a passion project or something I could do outside of work because I don't really find. Like the typical SQL projects for your portfolio, like exciting. It's like download a data set and try to clean it. I'm like, this isn't much different from what I do at work.

Not very exciting. Whereas I feel like web developers or app developers, it can be drastically different and much more fun. So I was randomly looking for something to do as a passion project. And I stumbled upon like the idea of AI automation. [00:37:00] And then that's how I found voice flow. And I started learning it myself and.

I ended up making a tutorial only because something that I was trying to do, there was no tutorial available for it. And since I had this idea that I might want to start doing content, I'm like, why don't I make a tutorial? Because what if someone else wants to do this exact thing? And, you know, it got a lot of views.

It became popular because again, no one was doing it that specific way. And so I kind of like leaned into that because I thought, This might be the thing I want to do outside of work. And I became an affiliate and I still think it's an amazing tool. I don't like, I genuinely don't like any of the competitors.

But I, I think that AI is very cool, but it's really, really hard to keep up with outside of work. And I just don't have enough time and I'm not passionate enough about it to keep up with it. So I think I've just kind of fallen behind and it's not [00:38:00] really what I want to do. And I am trying to figure out then.

I want to make tutorials or content about because I do like making tutorials. I'm a mentor at work and I find mentorship very important. And I like teaching, especially at the beginner level. I think I like introducing people to technical concepts from like a explain like I'm five point of view.

[00:38:23] Chuck: right.

[00:38:24] Mal: So that's how I got started with voice flow, but I don't, yeah, like I said, really do it anymore because I'm not going into it seriously, and I think if you're not giving it 100%, you can't compete with people who are, so I might as well just find something else that I'm actually passionate about.

[00:38:39] Chuck: Yeah, I think that's fair.

[00:38:41] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:38:42] Chuck: I wasn't familiar with that tool. So you introduced me to that. Although, yeah, AI is, is kind of a wide net, too.

[00:38:52] Mal: Mm hmm.

[00:38:53] Chuck: so many different things with it.

[00:38:55] Mal: There are a lot of things. I'm sorry.

[00:38:58] Chuck: Oh, no, go ahead.

[00:38:59] Mal: There [00:39:00] are a lot of things people are building that, you know, look like it's AI and it's really not. So a lot of people are, you can build actually something on voice flow without using any of the AI components. So even if I did build something, it doesn't necessarily like have to be AI or as heavily reliant upon AI as you might think other ones are.

So yeah, I do feel like, you know, I, I think there's a meme about this. It's like the Scooby Doo, like uncovering the bad guy. And it's like, AI is really just a bunch of if then statements.

[00:39:35] Chuck: Which is possible, too.

[00:39:37] Robbie: I don't know that it's not, I haven't seen the source code.

[00:39:40] Chuck: Hmm. I mean, if chat GPT is that, it's gonna be really weird.

[00:39:45] Robbie: I mean, it's, if it is, they are really bad conditions. Cause I'm like, make me a picture of a guy without a beard. And it's like, here's, here's one. And it's like huge beard. And I'm

[00:39:56] Chuck: Hmm.

[00:39:57] Robbie: beard. And it's like, all right, here's the one with the beard removed, [00:40:00] bigger beard. And I'm like, you kidding?

Like, can you just do it? Yeah.


[00:40:10] Chuck: for this episode.

[00:40:12] Mal: Oh, no.

[00:40:13] Robbie: Yeah, I do that for every episode. And you get what you get. I can only

[00:40:17] Chuck: Yeah, we spend a little time, and by a little time, it's like 30 minutes max, or like capped. Keep going through some iterations. I think they've worked out pretty decently.


[00:40:27] Robbie: of them have been really good.

With the big smoke

[00:40:32] Chuck: that one

[00:40:33] Robbie: and the, Versace

[00:40:38] Chuck: like

[00:40:39] Mal: Oh, my God, his robe. I actually don't, I don't know the photo, but I know the I guess the episode. I skimmed through it and once I, I didn't notice the Versace on the black part, but then I noticed once he picked up his glass, the cuff, and I actually messaged him. I was like, did you wear a Versace robe on that episode?

[00:40:58] Chuck: Did you text him?

[00:40:59] Mal: [00:41:00] Yeah.

[00:41:00] Chuck: You did, yeah, because

[00:41:02] Robbie: From his phone number that he

just put on the episode

[00:41:05] Chuck: on the internet and it works.

[00:41:07] Mal: Oh, I didn't know he was on the episode. So I, I just kind of skimmed through it. I didn't watch the whole thing. But I, I did have his number from before. And so I messaged him because Since I was going on and I was like, did you wear your robe

[00:41:19] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:41:19] Mal: because that's baller. I

[00:41:20] Chuck: Yeah, he he gives no shits. Yeah.

[00:41:24] Robbie: We were like that

[00:41:25] Mal: Oh My god,

[00:41:27] Chuck: I forget who it was. Somebody was like, Oh, I texted blah, blah, blah. You know,

[00:41:32] Robbie: Yeah

[00:41:37] Chuck: the episode. I'm like, Oh shit, that was. I didn't even pay attention.

Yeah, Ken's the worst. He gets me to buy crap that I don't need.

[00:41:47] Mal: He is hilarious

[00:41:49] Chuck: Yeah. Are you going to Miami?

[00:41:52] Mal: No, I don't I don't really I have not been to my have not been to Miami But I just I [00:42:00] don't think I like the vibe here

[00:42:01] Chuck: Oh, yeah?

[00:42:02] Mal: I just think there's so many other places I want to go first,

[00:42:05] Chuck: Mm hmm.

[00:42:06] Mal: spending money on Miami anytime soon.

[00:42:08] Chuck: That's fair. Yeah, I have not been to Miami either, but I've been to a lot of places. I've been to plenty of Florida that makes me be like, Mmm, I don't know about Florida, but some folks I'm

[00:42:19] Robbie: It's a little different than most of florida

[00:42:21] Chuck: Yeah, I'm hoping.

[00:42:23] Robbie: yeah Yeah, I went once for a work trip and it was, I didn't do anything fun while I was there, but it was just like lots of water. Like it's kind of weird that there's like a skyscraper with like water and like, it's just like, I don't know. It's weird. feels like that would be structurally not good, but

[00:42:42] Chuck: I don't know. It's a vibe. My, my wife used to do a, put on a conference. She used to be an event coordinator for a tech company and would put on a conference there like every other year. So she went a bunch and then I was always like, eh, I'm okay, but this time

I'm going.

[00:42:58] Mal: in [00:43:00] European ones. Of


[00:43:01] Chuck: for, for sure. Yes. Where's your ideal European destination?

You're a

[00:43:07] Mal: I think it depends what I'm doing. I think if


[00:43:11] Chuck: It depends.

[00:43:13] Mal: I think if I'm looking more to, like, party, I would go to Amsterdam. More to like relax, I'd probably go to like Italy. I don't even know if there's conferences in Italy, but

[00:43:26] Chuck: There are. There's some in Rome and, and Milan that I've seen a couple of times. So

I haven't gone to any, I've been to Italy a bunch just cause we have friends there and whatever. And we're trying to move there.

[00:43:38] Mal: Ooh, exciting!

[00:43:40] Chuck: yeah, that's the whole George Clooney. He lives in Como. So

it's like,

[00:43:44] Mal: okay.

[00:43:45] Chuck: yeah. Yeah. Party in Amsterdam.

That's true. I don't know. I've only, I've been to Amsterdam, but I'm also like, you know, you can go on this street or you can go on this street. So I just kind of go over here, but

[00:43:58] Mal: Mm hmm.

[00:43:59] Chuck: People [00:44:00] like it.

[00:44:00] Mal: Yes, I'm gonna go this summer. So I've only actually ever been to Paris. So this summer, I'm gonna have a European trip and I don't have it fully planned out yet, but obviously Italy, Spain, I mean The Netherlands and Germany are definitely on the list.

[00:44:16] Chuck: Interesting. I can give you feedback and or nothing at all, if you don't care.

[00:44:23] Mal: Ah, I would love it all.

[00:44:25] Chuck: But yeah, I've been to all of those places a number of times. I lived in Europe for like seven months.

[00:44:32] Mal: Ooh, okay. Yeah, I

would love to

[00:44:35] Robbie: though, right?

[00:44:36] Chuck: What's


[00:44:37] Robbie: somewhere else? Just in Italy though, right? Or did

[00:44:39] Chuck: No, no. I was in England, Ireland, Scotland, Spain, that time Italy. And I think it was it. It's like five countries. Yeah.

[00:44:49] Robbie: Hmm,

[00:44:50] Mal: So this is a serious nomad life, when you said

[00:44:54] Chuck: Yeah, so I turned 31 and sold all my stuff and signed up for a [00:45:00] bunch of volunteer things and took off. So that was a

[00:45:02] Mal: Ah, I would love to do that. I have my dog though, and I looked up taking him to Europe and I just have to get him like microchipped, and it didn't seem like that difficult, but The part that bothered me the most is, you know, they were, I read a blog about taking your dog and they're talking about, you know, if you take him out during the day but then you want to randomly stop into a restaurant to eat or something, like it would limit you, or

[00:45:25] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:45:26] Mal: if I wanted to go out without him, like, do I feel bad leaving him, like, at the Airbnb, like, somewhere he's never been before, and so I just decided that since this trip is I'm going to be moving around a lot, I'm not going to take him.

But I think if I did go to purposely live somewhere for like a month or two, then I would. Right.

[00:45:45] Chuck: Yeah. And they have the nomad visas and all that kind of stuff too. So

I don't

[00:45:50] Mal: Don't you

[00:45:51] Chuck: correlates.

[00:45:51] Mal: 30 for those or something?

[00:45:54] Chuck: No, I don't think there's an age restriction. I think

there's just an income restriction.

Oh, [00:46:00] wait,

[00:46:00] Mal: uh, work, working. No, I am 30. I'm turning 31 this year. Yeah.

[00:46:07] Chuck: There we go. We learned something.

[00:46:08] Robbie: this year.

[00:46:10] Chuck: Maybe.

[00:46:12] Robbie: He looks great for his age though.

[00:46:14] Mal: You do look great.

[00:46:15] Chuck: I am older than 31 for sure. Robbie, aren't you like 32?

[00:46:21] Robbie: 33, will be 34 this year. Yeah,

[00:46:27] Chuck: Everybody gets older, and so

do I.

[00:46:29] Robbie: that's, how it works usually.

[00:46:31] Mal: Doesn't feel good.

[00:46:34] Chuck: Hmm.

[00:46:37] Robbie: So I do want to, yeah, ask about some non tech things that we were obviously just talking non tech already, but you mentioned looking for a standing desk and treadmill. Did you pull the trigger on any of that?

[00:46:50] Mal: No, I, I actually, I feel like the bad reviews of it really stuck with me because it was like, Oh, it's loud. It's annoying to move, you know? [00:47:00] And I think the cost of a standing desk and the treadmill is just not worth it. Like, I'll just go to the gym. All of these things combined, like, like it being annoying and the cost and like, I love the desk I have now.

It's like an L shape. So like on one side, I have my monitors and then on the other side I have like my calendar and my notebook and everything. So it's more like admin stuff. I just think, well, I haven't seen the standing L shaped desk. There could be one, but I just think,

[00:47:30] Robbie: There are.

[00:47:31] Mal: and the cons, I don't really want to do it.

[00:47:34] Robbie: So, yeah, the, the moving, if you mean moving the treadmill, so I am sitting on a treadmill right now. So, like, I just put my chair on the treadmill, which is fine,


[00:47:46] Chuck: it?

[00:47:46] Robbie: because it, okay, they make ones that are easier to move, but I have a really beefy treadmill,

[00:47:52] Chuck: Hmm, I see.

[00:47:54] Robbie: on top of it, and like, it's fine, it doesn't,

[00:47:57] Chuck: Yeah, I have one that like, folds. [00:48:00] I have a treadmill that folds, and so you can like put it under when you want to use it. Now that said, I don't I don't even have it in this space anymore, so I just have that, like, in a home gym kind of thing. And I have a standing desk that I think, like, the better my desk got, the less I ever put it in standing position.

And again, it could be like, yeah, you know when I put it in a standing position? When I need to mess with the cords.

[00:48:30] Robbie: yeah, I liked West boss's take on that. Yeah,

[00:48:33] Chuck: It's like lifting the car to work on it. I definitely do that. But

otherwise, not that

[00:48:38] Robbie: we should shout out Bflow desks. Go buy a desk from go Bflow. com. That's the website, right?

[00:48:44] Chuck: yeah.

Is. And they are


[00:48:47] Robbie: and we will give it to people, but I don't have it.

[00:48:50] Chuck: We had a code. I don't even know. Those desks are cool. They do a whole bunch of things for cable management, but [00:49:00] and then I did that really well Yeah, it's got like a slot there. And so you throw a bunch of cables and When I first set it up, I definitely did a good job of that and then I added a couple of things and now it's a mess

[00:49:13] Robbie: Yeah, as soon as you need to add a chord after you've done it all you're

[00:49:16] Chuck: Yeah, no, I'm out Yeah, like how do I get around this?

[00:49:21] Mal: My cable management is awful. I mean,

[00:49:26] Chuck: How are you going to be famous on Twitter?

[00:49:29] Mal: the top, it's

the bottom side.

[00:49:34] Chuck: You got the T-shirt game going on. But what about cable management? Because I think,

[00:49:42] Mal: And so, it's kind of like, do you guys have a junk drawer that you, like, everything in your house is organized, but you have one drawer you just throw everything into? That's kind of how I feel about the bottom of my desk. It's like, just don't look there. Don't, you don't have, if you don't look at it, it's fine.

From [00:50:00] the top, it's beautiful.

[00:50:01] Robbie: Yeah, I mean that's reasonable I have like a big pile of chords on the ground because I have the like power cord for the desk and like a power strip and like the treadmill power cord and like

[00:50:14] Chuck: the


[00:50:15] Robbie: stuff because that stuff

[00:50:16] Mal: hmm.

[00:50:19] Robbie: So like

[00:50:20] Chuck: right?

[00:50:20] Robbie: but so good

[00:50:21] Chuck: I want an image of you on the treadmill working. With the desk down

in the layer.

[00:50:30] Robbie: You mean actually standing on the treadmill

[00:50:33] Chuck: Yeah, yeah,


[00:50:34] Robbie: the okay.

[00:50:35] Chuck: Maybe both, but

Okay. Both. Only during meetings? I think during meetings is a good time, because you could just be like this, and then you're like, I'm not listening. But I wasn't going to anyway.

[00:50:47] Mal: You're just like, panting into the mic.

[00:50:50] Robbie: Yeah, I

don't I don't do it for

[00:50:52] Chuck: mic


[00:50:53] Robbie: coding time Yeah

[00:50:54] Chuck: a real flex, by the way. If you break out this stuff, which I have done a couple of times in meetings,

[00:50:59] Robbie: [00:51:00] Oh, I do it all the time.


[00:51:01] Chuck: Yeah, I

I take the

[00:51:03] Robbie: I'm at home and someone makes me go to a meeting, I'm like, Look at my shit.

[00:51:07] Chuck: Hey,

[00:51:07] Mal: Oh, I'm camera off. Camera off all the time.

[00:51:10] Chuck: Camera off.


[00:51:13] Robbie: be, but like, I feel like it's better to be seen now. Like, remember you were there, and like, I don't know, it's good for like, future

[00:51:22] Chuck: What do you want to do? Are you trying to get

promoted? Are you trying to just be like, I'm just trying to get this?

[00:51:27] Mal: Oh, that's, actually that is the thing. I have a new manager and I'm actually a bit worried that if we don't have a good relationship that it could be a negative for my, like, performance reviews. And so now I'm thinking, I got too comfortable with my camera off, not really saying that much in meetings, and, you know, other people who enjoy being a leader, like, take, letting them take lead, because I don't mind sending back what, it doesn't matter to me.

But now,

[00:51:55] Chuck: Right.

[00:51:56] Mal: I'm like, if this is the only thing she knows, like, [00:52:00] do I really need to step it up before performance reviews?

[00:52:03] Chuck: I mean, possibly so, because what are the metrics for that, right? Like, it might be, there's recency syndrome, so what do I remember about, you know, interactions with you? Otherwise, what are they looking like? Looking in JIRA for like, tasks completed, like, oh well, I don't know, I don't hear a lot from Mal. She says this in her one on ones, looks like in JIRA, she closes a lot of tickets.

I don't know. You know, maybe there's that, but I don't know. Yeah,

[00:52:32] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:52:32] Chuck: perception is reality. I think for sure.

[00:52:35] Mal: Mm hmm.

[00:52:37] Robbie: Yeah, the thing I've been learning more recently, which, it doesn't seem natural, but like, just always post about stuff you're doing. Be like, in Slack or whatever, be like, I did this shit, like, yay! And then


[00:52:51] Chuck: Yay

[00:52:51] Robbie: it's weird because it's like, I don't wanna toot my own horn, it isn't like, it's not natural to do, it feels weird.

But like [00:53:00] people remember the stuff you said you did and they're like, that person does a lot of work. They're always saying they're doing this stuff. Like, you know, it's, so that's, that's my hack to like look like you're doing a lot of work.

[00:53:11] Mal: Just constantly annoy people.

That's the thing though, is people on my team don't seem to actually talk that much in team, in the team channel. And so I don't work on Fridays, I just work four ten hour days instead. And every time on a Monday I go look at what happened on Friday, like, nobody had said anything in the chat.

And I feel like I'm very annoying, because I'll talk all the time, I'll be like, Like, by the way, I'm gonna be out of office at this time. Or, oh my god, I got these errors. Has anyone done it? And like, I talk a lot and I feel very annoying. And I don't know if actually that's gonna be a good thing.

[00:53:50] Chuck: No, I don't I

don't know if any but yeah, Like being perceived as being like just in the background and I don't know what they're doing [00:54:00] or what's going on if you just camera off in the meetings, but You're very vocal other other places, you know one on ones with your manager, right? Like You'd also just say like, Hey, just want to check in on your perception on how I'm doing.

Like, I don't think that's

[00:54:18] Mal: Yeah, true.

[00:54:19] Chuck: you could just keep doing what you're doing.

[00:54:20] Mal: Mm hmm. Honestly, most of the time in meetings, I'm camera off because I just I'm wearing the exact same thing every single day. And like, my dog is on my lap. So

[00:54:32] Chuck: Yeah. Right. Like you're like, this isn't, yeah, no, I get that. And that's kind of a nice thing about remote work. Like, can we enjoy that? Do we have to set up a professional podcast studio? No, I don't think so. So what I'm really wondering, let's see here. So for you, you're a couple hours ahead in Montreal.

Will dinner be Costco hotdog?

[00:54:58] Mal: my god, I [00:55:00] wish, but I don't have a car and Costco's far.

[00:55:04] Chuck: Oh, that's why

it's like this.

[00:55:08] Mal: order.

[00:55:08] Robbie: Can you Uber eats Costco

[00:55:10] Chuck: I don't think you can,

[00:55:11] Mal: would if you could.

[00:55:12] Chuck: you can what

[00:55:15] Robbie: Hahahaha.

[00:55:17] Chuck: thing? Instacart, you can't Instacart Costco, but I don't think they get like hot

[00:55:23] Mal: I do. The thing is, I do. Because there are grocery stores nearby, but Costco is just great because I do like buying in bulk. And they do have things that obviously other stores don't. So I actually do buy from Instacart. I don't do it that often because they actually do mark up the price on the app.

So I am paying more, plus the like delivery fee.

If i'm not paying delivery fee, it's because you're paying the membership fee to get free delivery And then you know you want to tip the guy And there was once even this guy there was a bunch of construction. He had to park like two [00:56:00] blocks away He came to my door. He was sweating. So I tipped him extra because I just felt so bad

[00:56:05] Chuck: Right?

[00:56:06] Mal: like it adds up so I don't order from costco that much but if they delivered hot dogs I would be first in line


[00:56:14] Chuck: the dollar 50 is really negated though.

[00:56:18] Robbie: Yeah,

you would probably have to, it'd be a minimum of like 400 at a time.

[00:56:23] Chuck: yeah,


[00:56:25] Robbie: 400. Hahahaha.

[00:56:27] Mal: like, have you seen those the Korean ones? They're kind of like corn dogs and they have all the crazy things on them. Yes, I'm definitely that person that's like, Oh, I got to order like a minimum to get the free delivery or whatever, and

[00:56:41] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:41] Mal: six, even though I'm only going to eat like two and I'll just eat them throughout the next day is because I'm like, I have to get free delivery.

[00:56:48] Chuck: Yeah. That's funny. Hey, all lunch is covered. That's a win. So this is what you need to figure out is how to replicate the Costco hot dog experience at home. So [00:57:00] you order the Costco buns and the Costco dogs, and then how do you make them to make them the same? Cause they steam them, I think, or something. Oh.

[00:57:11] Mal: cook. I I have a post from a while ago where it and it was supposedly National Boyfriend Day. I was like trying to cook dinner for this person and the buns on the hot dog were burnt completely black, like 100 percent

black. it wasn't just

[00:57:28] Chuck: how it goes, but that's not right. Yeah.

[00:57:31] Mal: I know. And so we didn't eat them, obviously.

I was like, okay, so we have fries and a patty.

We do not have a bun.

[00:57:39] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:57:41] Mal: I'm not a good cook.

[00:57:42] Chuck: Like, let's try paleo style.

[00:57:46] Mal: Yeah. I made a goal. I made a goal of this year to try to become a better cook. And, like, try. Buy nice things from my kitchen because everything is crap. My knife, it, you know when they say like the [00:58:00] test is if you can cut like a tomato nicely? It does not cut a tomato nicely. My cutting board is falling apart because I put it in the dishwasher.

It's wooden and you're not supposed to. All of, all of these things. Yeah, I'm not a good cook. I, I, I want to make more money, mostly, because I want someone to just cook every meal for me.

Cooking is like, one of the worst things. One of the worst activities. If someone was like, let's do a cooking class, I'd be like, this is the worst date you could have came up with.

[00:58:33] Chuck: You could have done that in Thailand and made amazing Thai food, though.

[00:58:39] Mal: Oh, so my mom does. mom loves to cook. And the thing is, my dad, so he's, my dad's Canadian, but he loves, also loves to cook. Neither of them passed that down to me.

[00:58:50] Chuck: Mm. A life skills thing, Lee.

[00:58:54] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:58:55] Chuck: there on that.

[00:58:56] Mal: My brother doesn't have it either.

[00:58:59] Robbie: [00:59:00] I feel like it takes too much time. Like there's stuff I would rather do, so it's never like.

[00:59:04] Mal: I know. Oh

[00:59:11] Chuck: Like, I had this deal for a very long time with my wife and then Things shifted. We had kids and moved and all of that, but it used to be I cook, she cleans. And I was like, this is amazing. I can just come up with creative things and do my thing and whatever else.

And then she figures it out. And now it's kind of the opposite, which there's not that much creativity in cleaning up after dinner. And so I hate that, but

[00:59:36] Robbie: Oh yeah.

[00:59:37] Chuck: yeah, yeah,

[00:59:38] Robbie: I would rather just burn the kitchen down and start over. Yeah.


[00:59:47] Mal: yeah.

[00:59:49] Robbie: All right. We are about at time here. Is there anything you want to plug before we end?

[00:59:54] Mal: Me?

[00:59:56] Robbie: Yeah. Heh

[00:59:57] Mal: have nothing to plug. Maybe [01:00:00] myself. I mean, I don't really have, I don't have like an app in the app

store. I

would love people to download. I mean, I have a merch store, like mostly as a joke. Because,

because it doesn't cost you.

Yes. As co CEO of HTMX, I plug them. I don't use it, but I love them. Mostly, I respect, I respect the marketing.

Like to turn it into a huge like meme and to like have everyone be like CEO. It's like I became CEO without even knowing what they do.

[01:00:33] Chuck: Yeah.

[01:00:34] Mal: a lot of I've read about people talking about what they do and it does seem useful honestly. But I respect the meme because as just a shit poster.

[01:00:43] Chuck: Yeah. I got a pickle shirt too.

[01:00:46] Mal: Oh the same one that I got the platypus pickle.

[01:00:50] Chuck: no, a little bit different.

[01:00:52] Mal: Oh the

CEO pickle.

[01:00:53] Chuck: yes. And I meant to wear it today. I totally forgot until now. Yeah.

[01:00:59] Mal: I totally respect [01:01:00] them. I have nothing to plug. I'm just like a shit poster. I just love I just like making people laugh. Like if someone was like, I think you're really funny, that would be way, way better than someone being like, Oh, I think you're really pretty, or I don't know, something that's just very surface level.

[01:01:17] Chuck: Or asking if you're an AI bot.

[01:01:20] Robbie: heh heh.

[01:01:22] Mal: You know what? That has actually stopped lately. I think

[01:01:25] Chuck: That's good.

[01:01:26] Mal: and content that I do, they're finally like you're a real person.

[01:01:30] Chuck: It's good.

[01:01:31] Mal: have you seen the movie Hot Chick?

[01:01:34] Chuck: I

haven't, no.

[01:01:35] Robbie: so.

[01:01:36] Mal: It's what's his name? Is it Rob something? He has dark curly hair. He's a comedian, or not a comedian, but he does like comedy roles.

[01:01:45] Chuck: Schneider? Rob Schneider?

[01:01:47] Mal: Is it Rob Schneider? Yeah? Does he have curly dark hair?

[01:01:51] Robbie: I think so.

[01:01:52] Mal: It

[01:01:53] Chuck: I feel like he did.

[01:01:54] Mal: him and the, and is it Rachel McAdams who play, who plays the [01:02:00] notebook mean girls, that girl. So they, they,

switch bodies. Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. So I'm a big fan of her and they switch bodies. So he goes into her body, right?

And he like, doesn't really know how to act. I've always kind of felt that way. Not saying that I'm a hot chick, but you know, that people will be like, Oh, you're. You're like a pretty girl in tech, or yeah, you just came out of nowhere online. You must be a bot. And I'm like, listen, I'm very awkward. I do sit at home talking to my friends on Discord.

I don't want to go out to the club. I don't do any of these things that you might think I do. I don't want to go on your like, yacht in Miami. So, sometimes I feel like hot chick. I'm like, I don't know what to do with this. Just let me be like, anonymous online, which is why I didn't join like, the internet publicly until August last year.

[01:02:54] Chuck: Yeah. So what you'd like to plug is Hot Chick starting [01:03:00] starring Rob Schneider and Rachel McAdams. She's from Toronto, by the way. She used to be in my top five list a long time ago, but that's a whole other story.

[01:03:08] Mal: Not anymore? Why?

[01:03:11] Chuck: Well, probably still, but I just, you know, I don't know. I haven't I haven't, well, it was laminated list and so I haven't changed it or whatever else.

But I, I had this funny thing with my wife before she was the, my wife beforehand. So I would pick people on my top five list that I had like six degrees of separation from. So it was like, oh yeah, I know someone who grew up in the same neighborhood as Rachel McAdams. Boom. Done. Could happen. Who knows?

[01:03:38] Mal: Oh my gosh, that's so funny because I actually think of people in the same way. I saw that someone followed me and commented on one of my tweets who is the sibling of a person who knows the Kardashians. I texted, like, five people being like, I am two degrees away from the Kardashians. Ha ha ha

ha [01:04:00] ha. Oh


[01:04:00] Robbie: trying to get Ryan Reynolds on here, so if you, if you know anyone for that

[01:04:05] Chuck: also Canadian. So,

[01:04:07] Robbie: Yeah,

[01:04:07] Chuck: You guys know

[01:04:08] Mal: Ah, he is great. He is hilarious. That's the, so he's kind of the vibe that I like, you know. Obviously he's attractive and he's successful, but he's just, he's hilarious. Him and Blake, they're hilarious. And that's what I much rather have someone say about me. Be like, ooh, follow Mal. Like, she's so funny. I love her stuff.

That is way better than being like, Ooh, there's this hot chicken tech. I hate that

[01:04:31] Robbie: yeah,

[01:04:31] Chuck: path. I think, I think you're on the path.

[01:04:34] Mal: Thank you.

[01:04:35] Robbie: yeah. So where can people follow you?

[01:04:38] Mal: I think all of my socials now are malware, yml.


[01:04:45] Chuck: You love YAML. Got it. Yeah.

[01:04:50] Mal: didn't know how else to be like in tech and I, I, yeah, I had no idea what else to put, but I, I use AML files at work all the time and. Your [01:05:00] profiles are kind of your configuration. If you want to understand me, you just read all of my stuff.

[01:05:05] Robbie: Wow, that's deeper than I thought it would be.

[01:05:08] Mal: I know, right?

[01:05:10] Robbie: Yeah, yeah. And Chuck's camera is broken. So we're at time here anyway. So thanks everyone for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe, leave us some ratings and reviews. We appreciate it. And we will catch you next time.