Whiskey Web and Whatnot

A whiskey fueled fireside chat with your favorite web developers.


134: Empowering Black Women in Tech: Shaundai's Insightful Discussion on Self-Promotion and Career Growth

Show Notes

The Whiskey Web and Whatnot podcast welcomes Shaundai Person, a senior software engineer at Netflix, to discuss her impressive career transition from sales to software engineering.

Aside from some light-hearted banter about whiskey, pants confusion with her tall six-year-old son, love for rap, and previous experience with older technology, Shaundai shares how she leverages her transferable skillset, specifically soft skills she developed in sales, to excel in the tech industry. Shaundai emphasizes the importance of self-promotion to stand out and offers advice to other people transitioning into tech. She also touches on her upcoming TypeScript course and her strategic collaboration with Egghead.

Key Takeaways

  • [00:37] - Meet the Guest: Shaundai Person
  • [01:24] - Whiskey of the Day: Uncle Nearest 1884
  • [03:00] - Tasting and Discussing the Whiskey
  • [10:04] - Hot Takes on Tech Topics
  • [21:59] - Deep Dive into GraphQL
  • [24:10] - Career Advice and Personal Stories
  • [34:29] - Confidence in Interviews
  • [34:50] - Personal Responsibility and Evangelizing Your Skills
  • [35:42] - Diversity, Representation, and Authenticity
  • [38:45] - Capitalizing on Natural Skills
  • [42:10] - Cultural Appreciation vs Appropriation
  • [45:20] - Hip Hop and Cultural Influence
  • [53:44] - The Journey of Creating a Tech Course
  • [57:45] - Growing Up Fast: A Parent's Perspective
  • [59:28] - Social Media Presence and Personal Branding


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[00:00:00] Robbie: What's going on everybody? Welcome to Whiskey Web and Whatnot, your favorite podcast about French cuisine with your hosts RobbieTheWagner and Charles William Carpenter III.

[00:00:24] Chuck: I've been demoted because of my taste in whiskey. This episode is brought to you by Screwball peanut butter whiskey. Two shots of mixed with nothing.


[00:00:36] Robbie: don't know. Yes. We love it. Yeah. Yes, and our guest today is our favorite person Shaundai

[00:00:41] Shaundai: Yeah,

[00:00:46] Robbie: for those who have maybe not heard of you could you please give a few sentences about who you

[00:00:50] Shaundai: are and what you do Absolutely. My name is Shaundai Person. I am a senior software engineer at Netflix I'm also a conference speaker and had the pleasure of keynoting that conference [00:01:00] yesterday Talking about leveraging transferable skills, and I am a parent.

I'm a mom to a very tall six year old.

[00:01:10] Chuck: Whose pants may or may not be confused

[00:01:12] Shaundai: with your own. Yeah, yeah, there's a whole story.

[00:01:15] Robbie: I was gonna get to that later, but

[00:01:16] Chuck: that's, that's fine. No, I'd just jump ahead and ruin everything. This is

[00:01:19] Robbie: The nature of our relationship. Speaking of ruining everything

[00:01:24] Chuck: You

[00:01:24] Robbie: wanna talk about today's whiskey?

Yeah, yeah, what's the, what's the mash bill of this,

[00:01:28] Shaundai: I don't. I don't. I don't. I'm livid. Yeah.

[00:01:32] Robbie: No, we're, we're just kidding. God.

[00:01:36] Chuck: So, Screwball is amazing. But this is and I have no info on it. Oh, sorry, we do

[00:01:42] Robbie: have info. I didn't want the notes up

[00:01:43] Chuck: for the spoilers. Right. It is the Uncle Nearest 1884 small batch whiskey.

I didn't do any of the things. It's a mash bill of at least 51 percent corn, rye, and malted barley. That's not how that works. Well, 51 percent corn, and then there's some rye and malted [00:02:00] barley. I don't think it's specified. Four years age, 46. 5. percent alcohol times two equals the proof. We don't do math on this show.

[00:02:09] Robbie: 93 percent proof.

[00:02:10] Chuck: Okay. Okay. Just read. Reading is a skill. I didn't read. I googled. Alright so Uncle Nearest is a really cool story just because Nearest, there's a lot of historical documentation that's come out as of recently where Nearest was actually the master distiller for Jack Daniels.

Worked with Jack Daniels in the early days in developing their early whiskey recipes. And obviously, as a black gentleman in Tennessee, wasn't appropriately recognized. And all of that is like, coming to light now, so it's like a great story going through. These releases are the time of the Mashbills, I think, publication or development, something like that.

So the year has to do with that specifically. So yeah, that's, we're trying one of those.

[00:02:54] Robbie: today, which I think, and I didn't get my own rap.

[00:02:57] Chuck: So we're gonna do that right now. It's gonna be hard. [00:03:00] So the pro tip for the for any for our one listener of the podcast. Typically, we do this in advanced. Yeah, they know.

Yeah. Maybe Hold on, I gotta do it like you mean it. You guys feel free to have a peanut butter whiskey while I do this. You know, I'm okay, I think. Yeah, I'm good. You

[00:03:18] Robbie: have to at least try it. These are cool cans, though. Yeah, they are cool cans. Like, the

[00:03:21] Chuck: branding is nice. We could have done worse, is all I'm saying.

It's like, we almost got a whole bottle of that crap.

[00:03:28] Robbie: Well, we were gonna do the joke with the whole bottle, and then we were like, That's not worth doing. Then we got to the checkout and they had these and

[00:03:33] Chuck: we were like, Gotta do it. I'll let you pour it first.

[00:03:36] Shaundai: Okay, thank you. Given what So the joke, we didn't explain the joke.

That's true. The joke is that when I, When we were setting up to, for me to be on the podcast, when you reached out and asked, you asked what type of whiskey I wanted, and I said pretty much anything except for screwball peanut butter whiskey, because in the last time I spoke with you all, I told you what the absolute worst whiskey was that I ever tasted, [00:04:00] and it was screwball peanut butter whiskey.

And so when I first sat down at this table, all there was, was this giant bottle of water, and, This screwball peanut butter whiskey that I am so disappointed in but like you said Robby the branding is it's

[00:04:14] Chuck: beautiful Yes, and it's in a single serving Can it's nice. Maybe we can share it with the audience later on feel

[00:04:22] Robbie: free anyone anyone that likes it All of you out there

[00:04:26] Shaundai: Not

[00:04:35] Chuck: come to play Hold on I'm gonna try and get A little of that.

Poor sounds. I got some notes of juicy fruit in there. Definitely have. Really? Yeah. Yeah, juicy fruit, that gum stuff. Yeah, I get a little of that.

[00:04:52] Robbie: Yeah. Because juicy fruit is not

[00:04:54] Chuck: juicy or fruity. No, it has its own like unique invented flavor. Yeah.

[00:04:59] Shaundai: That's [00:05:00] true. It is this very

[00:05:01] Chuck: specific. A little citrus, a little citrus.

I mean, you don't have to follow our lead, you can just get in there, you know?

[00:05:09] Shaundai: No, I had a

[00:05:10] Chuck: sip, yeah, I'm gonna chew it

[00:05:12] Shaundai: a little bit. I'm palleting it. It's delicious. It's actually really good.

[00:05:17] Chuck: Ooh,

[00:05:18] Shaundai: okay.

[00:05:18] Chuck: This is really good. It's strong, though. Sherbert. A little sherbert. Yeah. In the start. Sherbert could be said to be juicy fruit like, yeah.

Oh, okay. Yeah, and the flavor. I have some of that, initially. Actually, like a dreamsicle. Like some vanilla. Ooh, yeah, some cream in there, too. Creamsicle, Creamsicle, what do you call that? Not just cash rules everything

[00:05:36] Shaundai: around me, but like, real cream. I like your descriptions today. These are very specific.


[00:05:44] Chuck: you do this for a couple years straight, you start to, like, invent words. I hear it. You used to just say apricot. I know, dried apricot. Which does have a

[00:05:53] Shaundai: place, but I like that it's very strong, but it's not [00:06:00] Super overbearing. So, I could drink this neat and sip it really slowly with a big giant ice cube in it.

Oh yes. Yeah, and I could probably get drunk really quick

[00:06:13] Chuck: after this. 93 Proof is bringing some heat, so.

[00:06:16] Shaundai: Oh, it is, yeah. It's not like, yeah. Yeah, this is, I can feel it going all the way down. A little burn,

[00:06:20] Chuck: a

[00:06:20] Shaundai: little hug, a little Tennessee

[00:06:22] Chuck: hug on this one. Oh yeah, not Kentucky hug. No, no, it's from Tennessee, I'm just trying to give it up where it goes.

Okay, it's been a little while, so you may or may not recall our very distinctive rating system. From 0 to 8 tentacles, 0 is horrible. Perhaps this is, you know, is right there. Yeah, that's your baseline for a zero. Four is like, not bad, not horrible, but you know, just kind of like, it's alright. Eight, amazing, clear the shelves, this is my brand, I'm just like, yeah.

It's just really good, how about that? Maybe I'm not overdoing it, but, yeah. I don't know, did you want to go [00:07:00] first, or should I make Robbie? Sure,

[00:07:01] Shaundai: I'm going with an eight, I really like this. This is, yeah, this is my exact type of

[00:07:05] Chuck: whiskey. Alright, okay. I love that.

[00:07:11] Robbie: I'm going to say 6. 142,

[00:07:15] Chuck: I think.

[00:07:18] Robbie: Pretty good.

Like, I don't have any complaints about it, I just feel like there's other things I've liked more, so that's why a little bit less, but still very high,

[00:07:26] Chuck: would recommend. Yeah, I'm trying to feel, so I tend to try to categorize some of these and is this a straight bourbon, or is it just an American whiskey?

I'm gonna assume the latter.

[00:07:38] Robbie: Yeah, because it's Well, it's 51 percent corn, which means it would be bourbon, right?

[00:07:42] Chuck: It's, yeah and the age time matters too, so I don't know. Pretty tasty. I am kind of like between the 6 and 7 range on it. Like, I'm really enjoying that, like, initial kind of creamy, like, orangey flavor with it.

It's got a little bit of burn. It's actually [00:08:00] like yeah, it takes a lot of boxes for me, so I'm like, I don't know, I'll go 6'5 I like it, have it again. I actually think we tried one other of theirs. This one's a hundred proof one. I think this one is much better even. Which one did you try?

[00:08:14] Robbie: I forget what the other year was, but there's another year.

Like 1856

[00:08:17] Chuck: maybe? It has a black label, and it is a hundred proof. So I think it's like bottled in bond. How does this compare to that one? I think this one's better. Nice every day. Yeah. Yeah, I think they have like four or five like they do a barrel proof one out and they have Yeah, a couple of different recipes.

It's hard to find all of them, but yeah Yeah, right total wine. We have total wine has a bunch of them where where I'm at in Phoenix

[00:08:43] Robbie: Wine stores in Virginia

[00:08:44] Chuck: turns up. Oh, right. You drive them, Maryland. Yeah. Well

[00:08:49] Robbie: Yeah, Maryland all alcohol is in the same, like, you can't buy beer at the grocery store or anything.

[00:08:54] Chuck: It's all at the Montgomery County you can, because I was in the [00:09:00] yeah, I used to get in lit, here we go, out myself as an alcoholic. There are whiskey lotteries for allocated bottles, so that's how I would get things like Pappy Van Winkle and Buffalo Trace antique collections and whatever else. So, yeah, it was a weird thing, and there's a Total Wine there that you could go to and get stuff.

Yeah, I don't know,

[00:09:18] Shaundai: I don't know what you have. I found out a lot, we do have a Total Wine in Atlanta I found. This, and a couple of stores, and even just the other package stores that we have. What are they called? Liquor stores out there. But sometimes they're called package stores. But yeah, you can find it.

Our beer and wine is available both in the grocery stores and in

[00:09:37] Chuck: the liquor stores. Yeah, I see. Same in Kentucky, same, yeah, Phoenix, you can get it everywhere. I like when you can get your liquor at CVS. That's the way to go. Yeah, solid. It used to be for medicinal purposes only during Prohibition. That's true.

[00:09:51] Robbie: Churchill had a note when he was in the U. S. that he could drink. It was a medical necessity.

[00:09:57] Chuck: Absolutely.

[00:09:57] Shaundai: Oh, I believe that. I feel like he was [00:10:00] onto something.

[00:10:01] Chuck: Yeah. All right, should we do some lukewarm takes? Yes, you like saying that. I do. Because I hate calling them hot

[00:10:09] Robbie: now, they're not very hot

[00:10:10] Chuck: anymore.

Well, this one is kind of hot.

[00:10:14] Robbie: What do you think about nested

[00:10:16] Shaundai: ternaries? I like nested ternaries. No, I don't like nested ternaries. You can leave now. No, sorry. I, I, I, I didn't hear the nested part. Then I repeated it, and then I heard it. And I was like, ah, no, I don't like that. I don't like nested ternaries.

They don't look as, they're not as readable. For the outside person, it's great when you're just trying to get the logic out, and so, you know, there's that, that I forget what the line is, but you make it, oh, make it work, and then make it pretty. And so, when you're in that make it work phase, it's a great way to just kind of lay out the logic and get things working until you're ready to go back and make it pretty.

But yeah, I'm not a nested Turner

[00:10:54] Chuck: fan. Yeah, that's the correct answer. Cool. Yeah, I glad, I think they

[00:10:57] Robbie: should put a prettier rule in that's just like, [00:11:00] write nested Aries if you want, and we're gonna convert them to either ifs or like a switch statement or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because nobody likes that.

Yeah. People have been talking about it on Twitter, and I'm like, who likes

[00:11:10] Chuck: these? I don't get it. . Yeah. So they put up an example, someone critiqued it enough, and then.

[00:11:16] Shaundai: There you go. Are there people who are in favor of nested

[00:11:20] Chuck: ternaries? I don't

[00:11:20] Robbie: know if they really are or if they're

[00:11:22] Chuck: just trying to get attention, but Might fight another Yeah, there are people that say they are.

[00:11:26] Shaundai: Yeah, that's a thing. Yeah. That's a thing. Like, if you had to If you had to do it, what's Is there, like, a limit? Like, would you do a nested ternary if it's only two cases?

[00:11:39] Chuck: Still

[00:11:40] Robbie: no, because I get confused with, like, all the colons and question

[00:11:44] Chuck: marks of, like, what's where.

[00:11:46] Robbie: Yeah, so no, it's maybe my brain's too small, but I don't I don't

[00:11:52] Chuck: Readability matters it does the other so I think the other well, I guess there's more than one But I'll go with [00:12:00] this is the everyone arguing about react server components or basically This you know blending too much of this server and the front end and browser readability and all of that kind of stuff Basically, it's Next, not React, but it's called React Server Components.

Do you have a question there? Yeah. I know, you

[00:12:21] Shaundai: just said the words.

[00:12:25] Robbie: Like, what is your opinion on that?

[00:12:27] Chuck: Yeah, what's your opinion on, those arguments around React Server Components making React useless?

[00:12:35] Shaundai: Wait, say that one more time.

[00:12:37] Robbie: Is that even an argument? Alright, sorry, I'm derailing you.

[00:12:41] Chuck: People aren't saying it's useless.

No, they're just saying it's bad practice. Yeah, yeah. There's too much blending of the server on the client. And does this look like PHP? What's the whole point of, like, forwarding this particular framework in this

[00:12:53] Shaundai: way? Yeah. So actually, In 2021, I was part of [00:13:00] the React working group where they were working on React 18, the beta version, and they collected a group of, not collected, but I don't know what the word is, they, they put together a group of people for this working group to introduce the features to before they were released.

And React's server components weren't called server components at that time, but, The part that I was the most interested in is the streaming server rendering with suspense. And a talk that I gave at ReactConf that year was streaming server rendering with suspense. So, Say that five times. Yeah,

[00:13:38] Robbie: right?

Yes, yes. Wait, have this first.

[00:13:40] Shaundai: No, thank you. So I know a lot about it because I had to work with the team to build this talk. And I And I said this in the last podcast that I did with you all, I don't, I'm not that opinionated about things, there's pros and cons to actually being opinionated [00:14:00] in the first place, but, I understand that in any, in any situation there's always trade offs to things, when it comes to front end versus back end and how they should, how separate they should be, I'm like, why not?

Like, I'm of the opinion that, like, why not? Maybe not in every single case, right? But especially when you're working on big applications, like I am, like, I can see why there's a different developer who's responsible for managing the front end, but. I don't want, if I'm a manager or if I'm if I'm anybody as part of that team, I don't want everybody just working in silos and only focusing on the front end and never giving any consideration to the back end.

And so merging the two to me is a way of forcing people to consider both sides of things and not to just like, okay, I'm going to make it as easy as possible. I'm just going to put all these nested ternaries in there [00:15:00] because this is the easiest thing to do. Now I'm thinking about. What are the implications from a design perspective and what are the implications from a backend perspective?

So now, like, as a front end engineer, I'm all, I'm forced to consider things from a backend perspective. And, I'm, I'm just of the mindset that, like, thinking of things from other perspectives changes the way that you code, the way that you architect your code, for the better. So, I'm more in favor of the general, like, We need to work as a team aspect of it.

And if that's one way of getting people to do more, like getting front end engineers to do more back end work, or make considerations of the back end more, then that's it. I guess I take it maybe a little bit deeper than it needs to be, but I'm like, this is how we're better engineers. I

[00:15:46] Chuck: think there's actually a couple of different potential aspects of that.

To one degree, it sounds like you kind of advocate for full stack web frameworks, right? Like, you don't need a separation of concerns. We can actually kind of [00:16:00] Have this unified application framework that is getting us there and the code base is shared and even if like, you know, this person is working more on the API side and this person is working more on the UI template side, you're seeing that progress together, right?

And then. The alternative is sort of like contracts. So you talk about, like, if it is a separate backend and a separate frontend, and this is the working overlap, there are contracts there and you can contract test and things of that nature. So there's almost like, regardless, they're never, like, completely abstracted from one another because they're, you know consumers of one another in various ways, so.

Yeah. Well,

[00:16:42] Robbie: I think, like, the thing that's been historically the thing The reason why we want them to be separate is like security or whatever, like you don't want your front end to access the database, which it kind of looks like we're doing now in React, and it's like, you're not really though, like as long as you still have the correct [00:17:00] safeguards in place, it's fine, but I think people get worried seeing that.

And thinking like, but maybe we don't need to care because before everything all these frameworks if you're doing PHP or whatever you were you knew how to do my sequel and all the things and you were just doing it all. It was separate, but you still had all that knowledge. So

[00:17:18] Chuck: maybe it's not that bad. I don't know those frameworks still had ORM.

So right? Like, well, yeah, yeah. So you were never like doing like select all from table drop. Mm-Hmm. . Well, you are sometimes , hopefully.

[00:17:29] Robbie: And, and if you did it wrong, you go, Hey, I'm gonna quit my job real quick and I'll see you later. .

[00:17:34] Chuck: This is my notice. This was production, right? Yeah. So there are reasons for abstractions.

Mm-Hmm. , but yes. Sure. But, being completely unaware or agnostic to what else is happening in delivering things on the web. I, I, I agree with that. I think that like you can be a master of your craft, but you don't necessarily need to be completely unaware of everything else that is happening to deliver this thing on the web.[00:18:00]

It's highly complex. That's part of it, right? So you would say it depends? Mostly, I mean, that's what makes me a senior engineer, is that I just usually respond with it depends on how I drink a whiskey. I like it,

[00:18:12] Robbie: I like it. Yeah, the, the, another hard hitting question is sidebar on the left or

[00:18:18] Chuck: right in VS Code?

Left. The right answer was Vim. Yeah, well. No, I'm just kidding. I don't

[00:18:25] Robbie: do it either. Whenever someone responds to that with, I use NeoVim, it's like, well, okay, that's the wrong answer.

[00:18:30] Chuck: You're just trying to show off. That's what that means, yeah. I'm just trying to write some text files. Like, I don't know.

[00:18:38] Shaundai: VSCode all day. All day, every day. So, little known fact. Not really. Not after today. We're going to hear about it now. That's a largely known fact. So, I was learning to code in 2019 and I didn't know there was nobody to tell me because I was self taught There was nobody to tell me what an [00:19:00] ID like what the ID ease were right?

I just in my head I never asked anybody but I'm like, I'm assuming the ID ease cost money. And so I'm like, all right Well, what's the free thing that I can use to code? I landed on Dreamweaver. So in 2019 I learned to code on Dreamweaver, making like, the worst type of websites, it was just like, HTML, it was just like, all HTML, like, the body, and then, div, div, div, div, div, and like, everything was just like, nested divs, and everything was repeated, I didn't understand any JavaScript, so it was just like, to make a nav bar, I would have a div, and a div, and there was no like, There was no functional aspect of it, it was just, everything was just laid out.

But yeah, it was all in Dreamweaver, my first little website.

[00:19:50] Chuck: Yep. I'm surprised Dreamweaver's free, honestly.

[00:19:54] Shaundai: You know what? I don't think it actually was. I think at the time I had access to somebody's Adobe Suite. [00:20:00] Adobe,

[00:20:00] Chuck: she stole it.

[00:20:01] Shaundai: You know what? I'm sorry. This episode is

[00:20:05] Chuck: sponsored by Adobe Creative Suite.

Here I am,

[00:20:10] Shaundai: like, using people's logins to account. Yeah, now I Hey, we all do it.

[00:20:14] Chuck: It's funny though, early days I worked on Dreamweaver 2 as well, because It was taking photoshop files and slicing them up and turning them into tables. And you had to already

[00:20:27] Robbie: be a professional photographer to afford photoshop, which made no

[00:20:30] Chuck: sense.

You said steal. You said steal wrong. No, no,

[00:20:33] Robbie: that's why you steal it. Because,

[00:20:35] Chuck: unless you're already a professional. It was like 2, 000 for the versions. Yeah, I'm like, I'm not paying that. Anyway, sorry. That's my Windows days.

[00:20:43] Robbie: The dark days. Yeah, the dark

[00:20:45] Chuck: days. Dark days. It was cold.

[00:20:46] Shaundai (1): Dark

[00:20:46] Robbie: day 2002. You had power show?

Yeah. Oh gosh. Oh no. .

[00:20:52] Chuck: Robbie's like, was I born yet? Oh, I used Windows. I had the Power Rangers. I even used Windows three,

[00:20:58] Robbie: some

[00:20:59] Chuck: three, [00:21:00] 3.1, or whatever it was. I didn't know. I don't even know that. Wasn't that a thing? Am I wrong? Yeah, there was a 3.1, but I think your dad used it and you No, no. We and saw the thing we got at

[00:21:09] Robbie: our church.

We got all these computers like donated that were really old. Oh, this makes sense. So I played old. So much

[00:21:15] Chuck: sense. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, no, we had 95 at my house. Yeah, I was gonna say 95 was like the big release and there was one before that, but I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, I was

[00:21:24] Shaundai: using was Vista before that?

My, wait, no, this is

[00:21:27] Chuck: later. This was bef, it was after

[00:21:29] Robbie: 98 was before

[00:21:30] Chuck: xp, right? Yeah. Oh, xp. Yeah. Vista was before xp. I think they like

[00:21:35] Robbie: just got rid of xp. I feel like people were like, oh, I don't need to

[00:21:39] Chuck: upgrade. 96 finally just got eliminated from the whole world.

[00:21:43] Robbie: Oh yeah. You, unless you're certain companies we know

[00:21:45] Chuck: of.

Yeah. . Anyway, you just might as well out people. Anyway. You have, you have topics topical, I don't know what we were talking about

[00:21:53] Robbie: a minute ago. Was GraphQL a mistake? No.

[00:21:59] Shaundai: [00:22:00] No. I love GraphQL. I, yeah, I went on a whole rant. You know how sometimes people will say something, and it just, like, something clicks in your brain, and you just nerd, and you just, like, talk very nerdy, and then you just realize, like, 40 minutes in, you're like, wait a second, I have been talking this entire time.

So I was talking to somebody about, and this was a couple of drinks in already, but like, I was talking to somebody about GraphQL, and they asked me, was like, I hate, or no, they didn't ask me, they just said that they hate GraphQL. You know what, after that conversation, I understand, GraphQL is not appropriate for certain applications.

If you have an application that's like super small, building a GraphQL schema makes no sense. And, in my case, where I'm using GraphQL is at Netflix, where we have. a bunch of different data stores, and then we federate all that data into a single graph. [00:23:00] And, like, I could take the astronomical amount of information at Netflix, right?

User data. There's a lot of info there? Yeah. You know? Yeah. As a REST API. Or, I could just, you know, take it as part of the federated graph and only take the parts that I want. So I love GraphQL. I didn't, so actually, and I gave my talk about transferable skills and I talked about how one of my lessons in my career switch was to shoot your shot.

When I applied for my job at Netflix, it required, this was listed in the job requirements, that I needed React and GraphQL skills. I had never, like, I'd heard of GraphQL, but I had never used GraphQL. I had used REST at my previous job, and I didn't really understand what GraphQL did, and I just looked up enough in my interview that I could say, okay, this is how it compares to, to REST, but all of my practice was with REST.

Now that I'm so practiced with GraphQL, I'm [00:24:00] like, man, this makes my application so lightweight, like I said, with all the abundant amount of data that we have, it's, it's, It's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing to be able to just take what I need just to show what I need just to make the calls and select just the.

Pieces of information that I need from each data store. So, no, it wasn't a mistake. No. Okay.

[00:24:27] Chuck: I wasn't saying it was. I just want to, because I have this at my convenience, I just want to thank Ross as set us up. So, 3. 1 were the versions before 9. 5. I think 3. 11 added networking. Okay. So,

[00:24:43] Robbie: I was not wrong.

Everyone was like, oh, Windows 3. Yes, it

[00:24:47] Chuck: was. It feels like It was all a farce before you should know you were well like using an abacus. So I

graduated first of all exactly I mean that was almost the jump so a night So I had a weird [00:25:00] thing, situation, so Windows 95 was the year that I graduated high school.

My high school had this like crazy federal grant through like Bill Clinton and all this other stuff, so we had Power books and all the teachers had like whatever the Apple stations were and all this stuff. I mean I was barely using a computer and it was the free ones from the government and they were like power books you go Write a thing and so yeah, I wasn't I actually didn't get much Computer literate Intel after high school.

Wow. Interesting. Yeah. Like, I could do things, like I had aunts or uncle or whatever who had like an Apple II and we could make banners and play Oregon Trail, like. Pirate stuff. Yeah, exactly. Download things. Well, no, that came later. High college. We, maybe that was a little later. Yeah, that was later for me.

So, anyway, shout out to Ross. Thank you for that. And I was mostly computer illiterate until around that time. Not like completely, but I definitely [00:26:00] wasn't anywhere on the path right now.

[00:26:03] Shaundai: Yeah, I didn't realize how old you are. I say it all

[00:26:06] Chuck: the time. He has a young face. Yeah, you do. That's my agent. I feel like you should be representing this in some appropriate way,

[00:26:14] Shaundai: so.

You've got like the hip clothing and everything, so it's like, you know. Yeah, that, it throws

[00:26:19] Chuck: you

[00:26:19] Shaundai: off. Yeah, it does, it does. You look like, hello, fellow kids, very much. I don't

[00:26:23] Chuck: even know what

[00:26:24] Robbie: that is. The Paul Rudd, yeah. Oh, that wasn't Paul

[00:26:28] Chuck: Rudd. No, he did that. Steve Buscemi. Paul Rudd Steve Buscemi, it was Steve Buscemi.

Steve Buscemi, see. That meme? But Paul Rudd also did it. Hey, fellow kids. Okay, well the meme that she's referencing. With the skateboard. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. Steve Buscemi. Steve Buscemi. Yeah. Paul Buscemi. Whatever. Whatever. Paul Rudd is ageless, okay, by the way. He did like a

[00:26:46] Robbie: commercial for like Millennials or something.

I forget the details, but he was like, Hello, fellow

[00:26:50] Chuck: Millennials. So it was probably a play on that originally. Hello, fellow kids. He's like,

[00:26:55] Robbie: is someone also born in this time period?

[00:26:57] Chuck: We're all Gen [00:27:00] Xers and we're forgotten. I don't know what to say. Where

[00:27:04] Robbie: were we? I don't know. Did we have any more hot takes?

Pages or AppRouter? I don't really care. I mean, I don't know you.

[00:27:11] Chuck: Which do you like? What was it? Pages or AppRouter. So that's more about the Triangle company

[00:27:17] Shaundai: changes. I don't, I don't actually use Next in my job, so I don't have an opinion on that. Good for you. That's fair. Yeah, I know. It's like, straight up React.

No frameworks.

[00:27:26] Robbie: Yeah, so you did, you touched on your talk a little. Do you want to give a few highlights from your talk?

[00:27:32] Shaundai: Okay. So my talk was on leveraging transferable skills. That's called cold, cold, cold calls to code calls. Cause I went from sales to engineering. Yes. So the first part of my talk is just explaining my big fear when I went through my career transition, which was that I'd be throwing away over a decade.

Experience and all that hard work and all the career capital that I'd built during my time [00:28:00] in sales I had a resume that could get me in the door wherever I wanted to go to and now I'd be like competing with other people for jobs people who had used all that time to get their experience to get their reps in and stuff and So the first part is me facing that fear, but then also there's this realization that I am actually Like, the coding skills, not to minimize it, but like, when you're going for an interview, the coding skills become a commodity.

And, because you can bet that when your resume is against somebody else's, They have that same, they have the React skills and the GraphQL skills the same as you have. But, what can you add to that? And really it comes down to these transferable skills. So I realized that, in, especially in a career previously where my career was based off of soft skills.

In sales, your career is just based off of your ability to connect emotionally with somebody. There were so many lessons that I learned that [00:29:00] made me a great salesperson. But that made me an exceptional engineer. Because I could code, but I could also like, Have these emotional connections, so I'm teaching the lessons that I learned in sales these big lessons to help people to understand that one your previous skills in your previous career, or your parenting or your volunteering or whatever you do outside of work is Or in a previous job, that's not a waste like you take those skills and You're building on them that's one and then also I want you to learn these same lessons that I learned in sales to be able to equip yourself with how to market yourself as what I call a superset of an engineer.

So a superset, I consider it to be an upgrade. So the regular engineer is here. You with your, your skills, your ability to communicate with people, your ability to. Persevere, [00:30:00] your ability to speak multiple languages, your ability to lead. That makes you an upgrade for whatever everybody else is. So that was pretty much my talk.

It was meant to be inspirational, but also to share my story of my career transition

[00:30:15] Chuck: into actually an amazing path, because Having been an engineering manager and helped people on their career paths. And like you said, like they were spending that time working on their technical skills and the acumen in that sense, but oftentimes what would be.

Chick fil A. I'm sorry. Anyway. Often times, what would be I like Chick fil A. It is. We'll try and wrap this up so Rob can get some Chick fil A. Getting hungry over here. Yeah, but what is often times, like the discussion and the inhibitor and like, what are things we need to work on are the soft skills.

You don't know how to embed. Evangelize your wins. If you're trying to move into leadership, you know, didn't [00:31:00] work better with other people. That's a big thing that like you were front loading all of that stuff and you just had to like Flip the script on that and you're like, let me get good enough, you know good at coding And show you I got both already.

Boom. Yeah

[00:31:13] Robbie: That's like one of the big things that people don't do is talk about what they've been doing and being like I did this work. I did it this way. I did a great job. Like i'm the best It sounds like You know, you shouldn't say that because you're like full of yourself or whatever, but you should because Like that's the only way you get noticed people want to give you promotions when you're doing that like if you can't

[00:31:34] Chuck: do that No one's a bigger fan of you than you and you should recognize that.


[00:31:38] Robbie: like we teach modesty, but like No, you don't need to do that.

[00:31:42] Chuck: Modesty is a career of 20 year mediocrity and that's maybe fine for people It is totally fine. I think that, like, if someone is in a lane that they are comfortable with and they're okay with that, I have no problem with that, to be honest.

But if you're asking me how to level up, how to get promoted, [00:32:00] how to get more money, how to get more of whatever, then it takes work. You can't just keep following the same path to get to that. And that's, that's your choice. So, and I think we do need some of both. There's no doubt about that, but,

[00:32:14] Shaundai: yeah. I tweeted.

A couple weeks ago somebody was asking for advice, like career advice for people who are over 30, or from people who are over 30. And I was like, my biggest thing is to get comfortable bragging about yourself. Like, that's the biggest thing. And one thing that I've learned in sales, and people have made comments to me recently, like, you seem so confident.

Is that something that you've always had? No, it's something that I've had to practice. It's something that I had to get my reps in because I've heard no so many times I've been hung up on so many times I've been insulted so many times and me coming in as like a young black woman to any space is just like automatically immediately you're stereotyped as this or that or whatever everybody is stereotyped at some level you know you're expected to [00:33:00] be this and that and my ability to let one like insults weird questions curious you ish comments, roll off of me, that's a whole other skill that I've had to practice, but my ability to relentlessly, relentlessly fight for the value that I see, is, it's such a powerful skill but where it comes into play when it comes to like interviewing, going for promotions is like you have to fight for that value for yourself, you can't.

Like you said, you can't feel humble, like, that is that's the biggest weakness that you can have, like, even if, and this is a big part of my talk, is like, so many times as, as people, we will devalue our skills, we'll discredit ourselves, we'll assume that everybody has the exact same skills that we have, at the same level that we have, and that's [00:34:00] not the case.

Right. Just because it comes easily to you, just because it comes naturally to you, It doesn't mean that everybody, it comes naturally or easily to everybody else. So like take pride in it. And even if it is something that everybody else can do, you, you do it better. Like you have to convince yourself in your head that you have, you have more value to offer.

And you have to be able to articulate that value. So it's like, that's really all sales is, is just like. Feeling confident in whatever thing you're selling. If you're in an interview, you're selling yourself. So just being able to feel confident in that, not even feel confident, act like you feel confident in it and that's it.

That's it.

[00:34:39] Chuck: If you want something, no, I'm joking. No, you go. No, you go. How about you? You guys are so funny. We don't get to be in person that often. So that's just part of it. No, but I think that like you have a lot of you have a response, personal responsibility. If you want something else, it's not up to someone else to [00:35:00] see it in you.

It's up to you to evangelize that. And, if like you said, you're somebody who It just comes natural to me. You don't have to gate keep that because you're gonna keep getting it, you know So like invite people to that and they are gonna support you and they'll do some of that evangelizing for you That's another way to go about it.

Yeah, you can either do it yourself Or you can support others, and they will also evangelize that, and that will get you there, too. If

[00:35:27] Robbie: you know what you're doing, you pair with them, you do things, they will all be like, They're gonna be like, Robby's

[00:35:32] Chuck: And then they'll let you know why I'm doing a good job, because Robby's been helping me.

Right. And then that also does a thing. So you can take a couple, a couple of routes there, I

[00:35:40] Shaundai: think. I love that. I love that. I especially love the, Like, even if it comes naturally to you, it's not a bad thing because so here's a conflict that I have in my head and I'm like kind of bringing up a spicy ish topic But it's not spicy to me.

I don't care so we can just talk as freely as we want to about it. So [00:36:00] I feel like Affirmative action diversity, right? There's an aspect of me speaking at conferences where it's like You know, okay, maybe Okay, so this is in my head. Part of me thinks that, okay, maybe conference organizers are like, who's a black woman who would talk about React?

There's only one. Like, you know, there's like one option, right? There's only one? No, there's more, but there's like a handful. Like, you can probably count on one hand, right? And so part of me is like, well, you know, I guess I was born with this skin and I was born with this gender. So, this is obviously something that has come very naturally to me, my blackness, right?

My, my, my femininity, or my woman ness, right? So, there's part of me that's like, oh, you know, this is something that comes naturally to me, so it makes it easier, in some sense, to get to certain places, because, I'm like, if you only [00:37:00] are here to fill a quota, then I'm a very natural fit, right? And so part of me as just like you know, well, that's not fair.

Like, you know, you, we, we shouldn't think like that is like, oh, well maybe I shouldn't do things I shouldn't do conferences where I feel like I'm just the token, right? Sure. Another part of me is like, I need to capitalize on this uniqueness because this is what's getting me in the door when I, thank you, when I show up.

And I show up. I love Tessa. Shout out to Tessa from Snap. When I show up, Like, when I get there, I'm gonna show up and show out. I'm not just gonna be there as a diversity person. Even if I am, like, hired or, like accepted as a speaker. If you get in the door for that

[00:37:46] Chuck: reason, that's fine. But when

[00:37:48] Shaundai: I get there, I'm gonna show you exactly why other people, you need to be bringing in other people.

This is diversity. Not just race and gender. This is diversity of perspectives. This is the [00:38:00] flavor that you need on your chicken. Like, this is, you know, you have been eating Stop making me hungry. No, I'm telling you, you've been eating the worst type of chicken for so long. Let's come over to Chick fil A and let me show you what we can do.

You know? Like, let me show you what you've been missing out on. And then I feel like I'm opening the door for more people. So, not only am I giving this view to people who haven't ever given a chance to other black women, right? So, other people who haven't been exposed to black women in tech. And showing them what we can do.

I'm also showing other black women that this is what it can look like to be authentically yourself. And to find a career where you can be happy and make money. So I feel like I'm playing to all the different sides. So I choose to lean into that side where it's like, I just block it out of my mind. All that to say, if something comes naturally to you, I feel like a lot of people are like, Oh, you know, I shouldn't, I shouldn't capitalize on it or I shouldn't Taught it because it's so easy like it comes easy for me I've always been a [00:39:00] great speaker or I grew up in a different country.

So I naturally speak multiple languages So that's not something like I shouldn't apply to things that actually leverage those skills They feel guilty and I get it. I get it. Like I understand the guilt behind it But I feel like it's okay I feel like it's okay to capitalize on something that comes naturally to you because it's just kind of like Everything else is set up to be so hard.

So why not take the easy things? Why not lean in

[00:39:28] Chuck: and see what you can do? If

[00:39:29] Robbie: you don't set the rules, like, why would you not take advantage of like Absolutely.

[00:39:33] Chuck: That's, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I have an interesting counter example, but I also, I know you, and I want you to call me on bullshit. I'm very curious I'm eating the popcorn here.

Yes, you are. You should be. Because I've definitely questioned myself a little bit in this. And I think, so, we talked to James Quick before you, and [00:40:00] he brought to light that he has a passion for, doesn't know if he's good at, but whatever else, is like a thing that he likes to do. And that is, rap. Like, write rap music and all that kind of thing, right?

Like, he wants to write rap lyrics, he wants to rap, like, he's done a little bit of it and whatever else. And I made a comment over, like, there is, I think, you know, to some, culturally, there is some homogeny that has happened. And I know, for me, like, I grew up in an urban atmosphere, listening to, like, punk rock and hip hop and, like, the, you know, I do feel very connected to it and I had a lot of that through my life.

But obviously it doesn't come from me. Like, I don't own that, or whatever else. But, would it be suffice to say that it's sort of like, as a society, This is a good way to sort of move forward and say like, oh tech has been very like white dominated and now we're like saying Like no, we want other perspectives because we want to learn how to [00:41:00] Make things for all the users right?

Yeah, just business users not whatever. Mm hmm. I don't know I I'm I don't know 100 percent where I was going with this but it kind of like brought up that example to me of being like it's also kind of like Not super cool, even with folks who have become successful in hip hop. Like, for white folks to be like, I like hip hop, I wanna write some I don't write poetry, I write I write hip I wri I write rhymes.

Right? Like, is that cool too? And

[00:41:30] Shaundai: So, first I'll say, Chuck, you'll never be cool. So

[00:41:36] Chuck: Thank you. I won't be. I know. I keep trying, but I love it.

[00:41:40] Robbie: Truth. That's alright. I can live with that. I can live with

[00:41:44] Shaundai: it. Cheers to this. Hold on. It's good luck. You have to tap it and take a second.

[00:41:50] Chuck: Oh gosh. And that's always why I want to hang out with black ladies.

That's exactly it. Because they will never accept me, but I

[00:41:55] Shaundai: keep wanting it. No, but we elevate you. I know. My wife knows this. I'm happy to [00:42:00] be here.

[00:42:01] Chuck: Anyway.

[00:42:02] Shaundai: Oh gosh. I love it. No, but you bring up a great point. So, there's a couple things I want to say about it. Like, there's I'll call out first the offensive route, right, that we could go.

I'm not saying that you went offensive. I'm saying there's the offensive route that we

[00:42:19] Chuck: I'm trying not to be, but I want to bring this up and there feels like an overlap.

[00:42:22] Shaundai: Yeah, no, no, no. So there's the appropriation route, right, which I'm just calling out. I'm not saying anybody here, right, because it's not the case.

There's the appropriation route where we, not we, black white, white men, right, take parts. That are cool of a culture and then try to say, this is ours. Or like Yeah. You know, you take it and you give it a different name and then you say it's ours. Ah, yeah. Like, oh, hey, you know, this used to be a taco. Now I'm calling it a salad with a case silla or a flat whatever, a piece of bread underneath, you know, [00:43:00] so you're, you're appropriating, right?

Sure. Yeah. That's not what's happening here. Yeah. This is curiosity about a different culture. This is, the admiration of a culture and this is me like trying to be in it. So if you're including the people who have started this culture, the people who are the best at it and making sure that their voices are heard, leveraging your ability to communicate, leveraging your platform, leveraging your podcast to lift up these people and saying, okay, this is a fun thing to do.

James, for example, he's a great example because James, I attribute a lot of, My ability to get out there to me and him were like fast friends It was like immediately he invited me on his podcast when I was like getting my first Starts in tech. I don't even know if I had actually moved into tech But he invited me on his podcast just to like talk about tech stuff We started out just talking and what was like, oh my gosh, we have so much in common and he's so great.[00:44:00]

But I When he, when I, and I know, because I've been saying that we're going to rap battle at some point. I know, like, where he's coming from is a place of admiration and just like, this is my stuff. Like, I love rappers. I, and obviously rap is predominantly, it's all black. So like, I admire rap and I want to, I want to be part of this.

Like, I'm not trying to take it over. I'm not trying to say this is a tech thing or whatever. It's just like. You know, hey, I admire you and I want to lift you up. So he's very much like I see what you're doing I recognize it. I'm gonna leverage what I have built to make sure that you get what you need and It's I just feel like he just continues to give and give and give like nothing that he does is just oh, you know Let me boost James.

Let me do this for me. It's always okay. What can I do for you? What can I do for my guests? and I guess that's the distinction is like [00:45:00] where you're here for the community, you're here to here to build people up. You're here just authentically interested, curious, and Yeah. Excited about, yeah, tensions matter.

That's it. That's it. And it comes across like it's, you can't fake it. You're not, can't fake it. You're

[00:45:13] Chuck: trying to steal it. You are just like, you just love it. I love this. Right. A part of it. This is just a part of who I

[00:45:17] Shaundai: am. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I figured you'd dig it and so this is good. I do dig it.

I do. And I can't wait to battle you. I'm good with, I mean,

[00:45:25] Chuck: are we gonna battle. Probably not. I love rap music. I grew up with it. Like I'm fat boys all the way, you know I

[00:45:33] Robbie: think Ken Wheeler needs to just spin beats

[00:45:35] Chuck: Tell you what if we can get to an event where Ken is spinning and it's just rap battle I'll go fail that I don't give a shit I'm

[00:45:48] Shaundai: not a freestyle rapper.

I'm a spoken word poet, but I come prepared I have all my rhymes written. I mean

[00:45:54] Chuck: rap battles are like their own thing. Like there's plenty of people who never made it in the industry that are [00:46:00] incredible. Really. That takes a lot of thought though. Did you ever watch

[00:46:03] Shaundai: some of those stuff? Oh my gosh. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Back in the day. Yeah. Hot sauce.

[00:46:07] Chuck: The history of hip hop is the most, one of the best docu series I've ever seen. What was it called? History of hip hop. Oh, breaks down, like, you know, the history of it, but also, like, in the different areas and stuff. I, it's so funny. I had to go to Tucson with my wife last weekend.

Mm hmm. And we were, I was talking about it a little bit, about like, oh oh, I told her about how Andre has a flute album now. Okay. And I'm like, that's just his truth. Like, he's probably in his fifties, like, it's not the Dungeon family anymore. Yeah. And she's like, Dungeon, yeah, it's a flute album. He's done.

He's just, that's where he's at. And that's okay. I appreciate that. Like, Dungeon Family was, they were in Atlanta, in a house, down in a basement. It was dirt floor. They drug their equipment down. They just lived there. They just made music, right? And then, [00:47:00] you know Atlians or whatever came out. I think Atlians was the first one.

ATlians. ATlians.

[00:47:05] Shaundai: Okay. I've never heard it pronounced like that.

[00:47:08] Robbie: Chuck pronounces stuff wrong, it's fine.

[00:47:10] Chuck: I do that.

[00:47:12] Robbie: He owns it though, he's like, this is how it's said.

[00:47:14] Shaundai: He was so confident about that. I've

[00:47:17] Robbie: never heard that.

[00:47:18] Chuck: That was great. This is what people do. That's fine, I will own many mistakes. And OutKast in Tempe, Arizona in like 2001 or 2 or something like when they were in a tiny place.


[00:47:33] Shaundai: So I'm from I'm from the Northeast originally. Mm hmm. So Outkast wasn't like I only had heard the hits now that I'm living in Atlanta now. I'm hearing all of the All of the Outkast stuff. Yeah, like all the the goods. Not

[00:47:50] Chuck: just Rosa Parks, but you gotta like,

[00:47:52] Shaundai: right? Yeah, so now I'm like you should get the Dungeon Family

[00:47:55] Chuck: six minutes and it plays off of a Dougie Fresh thing back in the day

[00:47:59] Shaundai: Like six minutes.

[00:48:00] Okay. Yeah, so I grew up on Biggie. I grew up on Yeah. Well, Jay Z, of course. Right. Of course. Yeah. So very much like, yeah, the New York rap was my stuff. Yeah. I, I tend towards East Coast, but. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Take it. Are you a Biggie fan? This is a hot take. Yeah, for sure. Biggie or Tupac? Biggie. Yes. You're not just saying that because I'm here, right?

No, no, no. Yeah. Just I mean,

[00:48:25] Chuck: I like Tupac, but I think Tupac was also like, he was trying to be successful and he was willing to jump around. And I don't mean that in a house of pain kind of way.

[00:48:36] Shaundai: Oh man, same. I was just

[00:48:37] Chuck: like Oh, it was the tip of my tongue. We'll get there. But again, like, I listen to the Fat Boys, Doug E.

Fresh, like Run DMC. Back in the day, like, I listened to a whole bunch of, like, very old school things

[00:48:49] Shaundai: too, so. So would you say your favorite type of music is hip hop, or is that just one of the many genres that you listen to? I mean, I go through moods, but I definitely And do you like new

[00:48:59] Robbie: [00:49:00] stuff?

Cause that's like Older stuff is way different and better in my

[00:49:04] Chuck: opinion. Yeah, some, but it takes digging. Do you like auto tune? I don't like radio stuff, no. Okay. I mean, 808 had some interesting auto tune. And actually, Death of Auto Tune, Jay Z, was like fucking awesome. That was just like, called everyone

[00:49:19] Robbie: out.

Yeah, he was like,

[00:49:20] Chuck: here's how I do it right, and I'm done with you. Yeah.

[00:49:24] Shaundai: That was my stuff. That was my stuff. Oh my god. Now I gotta go back and listen

[00:49:28] Chuck: to Wu Tang though, by the way, was, was probably the right answer for me,

[00:49:31] Shaundai: around that time. So, yeah, I was gonna ask you, who, like, who was your favorite rapper or rap group?

[00:49:38] Chuck: Well, I have a hard time picking favorites, and they change all the time, so Top three. Topical, but I, I was, I'm a big Wu Tang fan. Yeah? For sure, yeah. And the RZA as a producer is incredible. RZA as a rapper, Bobby Digital's stuff was like alright, and the Prince Rakeem stuff, yeah. Yeah, not great for me, but [00:50:00] I mean Method Man is one of the best lyricists ever, he's incredible.

[00:50:05] Shaundai: Incredibly good looking man. Right. Like even to this day, I'm like, my goodness. No, even like, LL Cool J could never, like, I'm

[00:50:15] Chuck: I get that. LL is one of the best lyricists of all time. You think so? Absolutely. I don't agree. I've read a bunch of stories about how, like, he'd do collabs for people, walk in, spend 30 minutes, and just be like, boom, boom, boom.

Crushed it. And just kill it. Interesting.

[00:50:31] Robbie: The lyrics and the rapping are different skills,

[00:50:32] Chuck: though. It's right. That's right. I think his lyrics and his flow is just good. I just think he's good. I think he can kill it.

[00:50:40] Shaundai: So, okay. Let me give you mine. So, I'm thinking Jay Z is definitely in my top, this is not in any particular order, but my top three ish.

Top five,

[00:50:50] Chuck: top five lyricists. Okay.

[00:50:53] Shaundai: Not in any particular order, I'm just going. Jay Z, Kendrick Lamar. Yes, very good. [00:51:00] M. I. P.

Yeah, no. He's

[00:51:04] Chuck: dead. Oh, not Cole. I

[00:51:05] Robbie: was like, did I miss ? No.

[00:51:07] Shaundai: Wait, what are you saying? Detroit

[00:51:09] Chuck: guy? That I confused. Detroit guy. Okay. Yeah.

[00:51:12] Robbie: Thank you

[00:51:12] Shaundai: for being specific. We're narrowing it real down like


[00:51:15] Chuck: I'll get blazed for this one. Thanks. Who?

[00:51:18] Robbie: We'll come back to it. Yeah, we'll come

[00:51:20] Shaundai: back. Are you talking about Jay, but he's from California though.

[00:51:23] Chuck: Yeah, he is from Detroit. And it's Jay, please,

[00:51:27] Robbie: please Google it. Let her finish her list. Google it. Fine. Because now I'm on. Okay. Because I need to know who died.

Alright. Yes,

[00:51:32] Shaundai: you do. Okay. Kendrick Lamar, Jay Z, J. Cole, who else? This is hard, because I need a female. Okay. Not necessarily the best lyricist, but kind of. Megan Thee Stallion, like, I love her. Oh, she's good, actually. I love everything about her. Everything she did in Body Oddy Hotties.

[00:51:54] Chuck: Yes. Yeah. She's definitely the era parent.

[00:51:59] Shaundai: Right? Yeah. Everything [00:52:00] about her is just She's good, and

[00:52:04] Chuck: she was great on Hot Ones too, by the way. I

[00:52:07] Shaundai: didn't know she was on Hot Ones. You gotta watch it, you're gonna love it. Oh my god. It's so good. I gotta quit this conference. After this, I'm gonna quit. Honestly. I'll grab some barbecue, bring it up to my room.

[00:52:18] Chuck: Bring this with you. My family's coming. I think Sarah wants to meet you. I don't know. My wife wants to meet you, so. She does? Yeah, I

[00:52:25] Shaundai: think so. I want to meet

[00:52:25] Chuck: her too. But you told her not to come down here. No, she, I didn't tell her not to. I told her to come at four, and then she said, kids are sleeping. Hmm, I guess Katelyn decided not to come.

[00:52:36] Shaundai: I don't know who to pick for five, because I feel so stressed about picking the fifth and ostracizing the rest of all of the great races. Yeah,

[00:52:41] Robbie: you can come back to it. Say, we'll, we'll let you

[00:52:44] Shaundai: know. Yeah, cuz I'm like, would it be a group? I don't, I am very stressed about this. I don't know what to do.

[00:52:51] Chuck: There's a lot of good options. Yeah, let's just keep thinking about it.

[00:52:53] Robbie: But you got to leave someone

[00:52:54] Chuck: out if you're only picking fives.

[00:52:55] Shaundai: No, you're right, and that just made me way more stressed than I already was. [00:53:00] I can't really think. Who's yours, Robbie?

[00:53:04] Chuck: For like, old school rap?

[00:53:06] Shaundai: Any rap. I

[00:53:07] Chuck: don't know, I really like a tribe called Quest.

Ooh, yes. Wow, that's a good choice. That's a really good choice. Yeah, I love them. Maybe Biggie. But you gotta pick one. Is it q tip? We said top five. You gotta do q tip? Is it groups or individual lyricists? Well, we weren't specific. Okay. Alright, fair enough. Yeah. I'll give you that. Anyway, oh man, I've had a lot of whiskey.

Okay. Tell

[00:53:40] Robbie: us let's circle back to tech just for a minute. Okay. I checked out your course website earlier. It's not fully done yet, right? Or,

[00:53:48] Shaundai: how's that going? I don't know if it's appropriate or allowed to announce it yet, but, the course is going to be [00:54:00] merged with some, one of your favorite. It's not Matt Pocock, but same family, actually.

He's a cousin of Matt. Oh, another Pocock? No.

[00:54:11] Chuck: No.

[00:54:13] Shaundai: No. No.

[00:54:16] Robbie: No. No. This is the good part about, like,

[00:54:19] Chuck: drinking

[00:54:20] Shaundai: more. No, it's all the same family. So, TS4JS was, sponsored by, or hosted, I don't know what the word is. I was working with the Egghead folks. There's Joel Hooks, amazing person, who has also this other business that's related to Egghead, skill recordings, and so, there's a lot of great courses that have come out of skill recordings, so, haven't announced it yet, it'll be announced pretty soon, collaborating on my course with somebody who I respect so much, just as a human being, as a parent, and especially as a course creator, And my [00:55:00] TypeScript course will be part of that, so.

Yeah. Stay tuned. Yeah. Let's do this call. But you heard it here first. This is the first time actually saying this publicly. Now you're stuck. Now I'm stuck. Now I'm accountable to it. I

[00:55:12] Robbie: also did have on here, I wanted to circle back, because you've been talking about your son's pants being the same size as yours.

Oh my gosh. Yes. Like, do you think that's attributed to the bougie

[00:55:20] Chuck: milk? Or?

[00:55:21] Shaundai: You know what? That's, you know what? You're actually. That's a good test point. That's an authentic reaction. Because. I heard that whatever hormones are in milk are making kids grow exponentially. So my son, I'm 5'6 and my son is up to here on me when I'm standing up.

And I've been confusing his pants. He's like 6, right? He just turned 6. Like, he's a freshly couple months old. Wow. 6 years old. Right? And so, I remember on his first birthday, You go for the the checkup and they do the height and weight and everything. He was exactly half my size at one years old. Wow.

And I was like, this is kind of a problem. Yeah, that is cool though. Yeah, but then he's [00:56:00] grown another half, like, or like another quarter or whatever since then. But the whole reason we're talking about this, so I tweeted about how I was confusing my son's pants with my pants. Like when I was taking them out of the laundry.

And then there was one moment where I was like, looking at a pair of pants and my son's like, like, what's going on? Like, he's like, what's wrong? Why are you looking at those pants? Yeah, because I'm like, I'm trying to figure out which load, like, to fold it up into. Does it go on his hangers or my hangers?

So I'm looking at it. He's like, what's going on? And I was like, I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out, are these your pants or my pants? And he's like, This is funny. So he was like, mommy, they're my pants because you always wear broken pants. And I was like, do you mean, because I always wear ripped jeans, which I'm literally wearing right now.

And I was like, do you mean, cause I'm wearing your jeans? He's like, yeah, no. He was like, you just have broken pants. And I was like, somebody commented and they were like, how tall are you? If you're a six year old, you're confusing their pants. I'm like, I'm normal. I'm five, six. Yeah. [00:57:00] You're not short or anything.

He is the abnormal. He's the abnormal like freak of nature. He's a giant But yeah, so I posted a tiktok now i'm on tiktok, by the way So I posted a tiktok where i'm showing his pants. Do you do I don't even do dances, but I was learning from my friend's daughter, so that makes her my niece, so I was learning from my niece about how to grow my TikTok and Instagram at one of the open spaces at that conference a little while ago, so I think I will start doing dances, but it was just a video where I held my son's pants up to my waist and I showed this is exactly why because his pants go from my waist to like this Wow.

Yeah. Yes. And he's six? Yeah. That's crazy. Like, newly minted six year old. How many people

[00:57:46] Chuck: have said, you're gonna get him into basketball? Oh,

[00:57:49] Shaundai: yeah. Right. Cause I can't, he can't be a dental assistant. Assistant. Right? As a giant. Like what do you, what else are you kind? Do we over a lot for that? Yeah. like in your teeth.

Like lemme get it in there.

[00:57:59] Robbie: Well, hopefully it keeps [00:58:00] growing 'cause I grew real fast and was like this height in sixth

[00:58:03] Chuck: grade. Oh. And then

[00:58:04] Shaundai: never went. Okay. And how tall are you? Five 10. Yeah.

[00:58:07] Chuck: So all the doctors

[00:58:07] Robbie: like, you gonna be way over sixth feet. I'm like, oh cool. Nope, nope.

[00:58:11] Shaundai: And that's about the height of his dad.

So I'm like on both sides of his family. My brothers, my dad. Everybody's well over 6 feet. And he and his dad my son's dad and my son's dad's dad are both the shortest in their family. Like 5'10 5'11 ish. And then everybody else is over six feet. So I'm hoping that he's adopted. Maybe he got that part, yeah.

[00:58:33] Chuck: Yeah,

[00:58:34] Shaundai: yeah. I'm the shortest

[00:58:35] Chuck: one. I feel the struggle. Yeah.

[00:58:39] Shaundai: No. Are we going to waste

[00:58:40] Chuck: these? Yeah.

[00:58:42] Robbie: Yeah. I'm, I have no desire to drink

[00:58:43] Chuck: it. Are you going to drink all three? We should, we'll just take them

[00:58:46] Robbie: to the barbecue

[00:58:47] Chuck: and be like, here you go. Alright, we'll see what happens.

[00:58:49] Shaundai: I like it. I respect it. Yeah, cause I'm not drinking it.

Yeah, that's fair.

[00:58:53] Robbie: That's fair. Yeah. Cheers. Yeah, I'm, I'm

[00:58:55] Chuck: empty, but. You don't have to be. Yeah. Well, you're [00:59:00] right, but

[00:59:00] Robbie: it's just now five, bro. Like.

[00:59:03] Chuck: Five o'clock somewhere. I'm, let's go for it. I'm trying to not be. I'll do.

[00:59:08] Shaundai: Unconscious. Wait, can I walk around with this? It doesn't matter. I'm just gonna do a little bit more.


[00:59:12] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:59:13] Robbie: Salute. I mean, Clark will let you, but I don't know if the conference center likes that or not.

[00:59:18] Shaundai: It's fine. I don't do anything except talk. Alright. Use my

[00:59:21] Chuck: voice. Alright, so. Thanks. Well, no, we gotta, we gotta end the, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah

[00:59:26] Robbie: You got anything

[00:59:27] Chuck: you want to plug

[00:59:27] Shaundai: before we end?

Absolutely, so let's plug my Twitter and my new TikTok. So, if you want to follow, oh, and my YouTube. So, I'm a very Google able person, so just look for, I'm the only Shaundai person in the world. S H A U N D A I. I think so, that's true. At Shaundai, everything, except for TikTok. Tick tock because some hater got my handle before I got it.

Yeah, so on tick tock. I'm Shaundai P for person Wow for anything we

[00:59:57] Robbie: should contact them and get that I think do they [01:00:00] post or

[01:00:00] Shaundai: no, it's just a waste of life Like yeah, I think they would

[01:00:04] Chuck: give it to you. Yeah,

[01:00:05] Robbie: you think so? Yeah

[01:00:08] Shaundai: Okay, okay, I'll reach out because they're not they're really not sure

[01:00:12] Robbie: that everywhere then of course it's you

[01:00:14] Chuck: yeah

[01:00:17] Shaundai: Do that.

That's my name, but But yeah, so look for me Twitter YouTube at Shaundai and Tiktok for now ShaundaiP.

[01:00:30] Chuck: All right, cool.

[01:00:32] Robbie: Thanks everyone for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe leave some ratings and reviews We'll catch you next time

[01:00:36] Chuck: If you want to be on contact her. Yeah All right Get this off my

[01:00:44] Shaundai: ears.