Whiskey Web and Whatnot

A whiskey fueled fireside chat with your favorite web developers.


144: AI vs Human: The Future of Job Interviews with Taylor Desseyn

Show Notes

Join hosts RobbieTheWagner and Charles William Carpenter VIII on Whiskey Web and Whatnot as they welcome back Taylor Desseyn for another round of whiskey and engaging conversation.

Dive into discussions on the relevance of AI in hiring, the shift between remote and in-office work, and the changing trends in engineering specializations.

Plus, get to know more about Taylor’s life beyond tech, including his hobbies and family updates, and don't miss their entertaining whiskey tasting session featuring Tennessee blended bourbon Sweetens Cove!

Key Takeaways

  • [00:00] - Welcome to Whiskey Web and Whatnot
  • [01:34] - Introducing Taylor Desseyn
  • [02:38] - Tennessee Whiskey Tasting
  • [12:32] - Discussing Return to Office Policies
  • [29:44] - Exploring Lit and Ember
  • [30:12] - The Platinum Blonde Debate
  • [31:31] - AI in Hiring Processes
  • [32:25] - Humanizing Hiring
  • [35:55] - The Disconnect in Tech Hiring
  • [41:29] - Specialization in Tech
  • [45:02] - The Future of Blue Collar Jobs
  • [50:27] - Balancing Work and Personal Life
  • [55:40] - Preparing for Baby Number Two
  • [58:05] - Podcast and Merch Plug


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[00:00:05] Robbie: What's going on everybody welcome to Whiskey Web and Whatnot with your hosts RobbieTheWagner and Charles William Carpenter the eighth

[00:00:14] Chuck: The eighth. Yes, I am replicating myself. I'm using AI to replicate myself. are you really the

Henry the eighth. I, yeah, my, no, I'm the third which is good also, I think. Yeah. I did not do a fourth. I elected to shut it off. I did name my daughter Charlotte, though, which is an O2 without being quite so direct.

[00:00:40] Taylor: Okay.

[00:00:41] Chuck: Yeah. And she's good most of the time. Too bad that band isn't. Yeah. Good Charlotte, more like Bad Green Day. More like Bad Green shots fired That's right. Saw

[00:00:54] Robbie: them live like a few years ago.

We can get into a few Yeah. You wasted good money [00:01:00] on that. Anyway.


[00:01:03] Chuck: I'm not the only

[00:01:05] Robbie: you want to introduce yourself for anyone who hasn't heard I'm going to try to put myself on mute because it's a, it's a little bit of a craziness at that, the house today. But yeah it's good to have, it's good to I was, I was going to Host mode. It's good to have you boys back on. It's not my podcast. It's your

[00:01:23] Taylor: podcast. We're it's yeah, it's it's it's really good to be back on guys Thank you for inviting me on for round two. The whiskey was so good the first time that you know, I was like, hey Why don't why don't we do this again? So but for those of you who do listen mainly my mother probably and maybe y'all's mothers wives,

[00:01:42] Chuck: my mom does not So, my name is Taylor Desseyn, I'm from Nashville, Tennessee I do not like country music at all but I'm very excited about post Malone's new release with Morgan wall and that's going to be a doozy.

[00:01:55] Taylor: But yeah, I've been a recruiter connector of people now for about 13 years spent 12 [00:02:00] years in traditional staffing agency since moved over to the talent marketplace side, which is in my opinion, kind of recruiting two dot oh with gun. io. I think it's I think it's a really cool product.

What we're building and we really kind of put the power back into the hands of hiring managers and job seekers when it comes to the job search. So very happy with that. I help run all things, content and community at gun. io. So here we are.

[00:02:26] Chuck: Yeah, this episode is brought to you by Gun I O. They just don't know it yet. I'm just gonna by the

[00:02:32] Robbie: time it airs, it will be.

[00:02:33] Taylor: I love it. I love it. Yeah.

[00:02:38] Chuck: Let's, let's talk about whiskey first. You know, that's the,

[00:02:41] Robbie: about that Tennessee whiskey we got there.

[00:02:44] Taylor: So did y'all specifically send me something from Tennessee on purpose? It was that like, okay, that's cool.

[00:02:49] Chuck: that's right, y'all. So today's whiskey is called Sweetin's Cove. This is their 22 Tennessee blended bourbon. I can't, I don't think I can keep that [00:03:00] going the whole time. It's 114 proof. It is a blend of 10, 8, 6, and 5 year bourbons. And then they are finished in a Speeside Scotch cask. So it was an interesting mix there, I would say. You know what I, I've I've already failed

some of my pro tips. we do a little, little

Yeah, test right now.

[00:03:20] Robbie: Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:24] Taylor: If we tried to do this last week, when I had a cold,

it would not

[00:03:29] Chuck: Yeah. Wouldn't have

[00:03:30] Taylor: smell anything.

[00:03:31] Chuck: yeah, you would've been like,

[00:03:32] Taylor: got like it's got a

flavor. Like, like there's got a flavor on the back end that it smells so good. And I'm trying to like pull it from my brain.

[00:03:44] Chuck: I am

[00:03:45] Robbie: To me I'm getting creme brulee and toasted marshmallows.

[00:03:49] Chuck: Oh, shit. Before you talk. Ooh, definitely toasty something

[00:03:55] Taylor: Okay. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. I'm getting burnt honey. Hear me out here. So [00:04:00] basically there is a coffee shop here in Nashville called elegy. They do a burnt honey latte and it is decadent and, and, and that's what, that's what it kind of smells like the burnt honey.

[00:04:12] Chuck: Ooh. Yeah, I can definitely see where like, maybe you'd go down the burnt honey path or creme brulee. Like, a toasty sugar definitely has, yeah, it's got, it's got some packin a punch.


a punch for

ya. on fire a little bit in the back of my Yeah.

[00:04:29] Robbie: Yeah.


[00:04:33] Taylor: No, but I am getting a color tomorrow. So

[00:04:35] Chuck: Oh, okay, yeah. mean, it's good to know your schedule, where you're gonna be. Terrorists. We yeah, so I don't know.

[00:04:44] Taylor: yeah.

[00:04:44] Chuck: We should do that though. Y'all

[00:04:48] Taylor: should live stream live streams where it's at, but that's a whole nother conversation. So

[00:04:51] Chuck: sure, sure. I mean, it could be this conversation. Once we talk about Whiskey Sum.

[00:04:57] Taylor: I like it. It's good. [00:05:00] It's good. I'm going to be honest. The, the stuff you sent me last time was really good. I don't think it beats that. I

think I rated that really high.

[00:05:09] Chuck: No.

[00:05:09] Taylor: look at it. I can't remember what

[00:05:10] Robbie: I forget what the last one was.

[00:05:12] Chuck: It's a

[00:05:13] Robbie: Yeah. This one, compared to the last Sweet'n's Cove we did, which was like my favorite bourbon I've ever had, it Oh, for one is much less good

[00:05:24] Taylor: Much less. Not that.

[00:05:26] Chuck: it yeah, it's real sweet. It's got a lot of sweet. It's got a little bit of, like, mossiness to it. And then it's packing

the heat for me.

[00:05:37] Robbie: Yeah,

[00:05:38] Taylor: It did kind of my mouth.

My mouth tastes like I licked like a riverbed right now.

[00:05:43] Robbie: yeah, do sometimes

[00:05:45] Chuck: when you

[00:05:46] Robbie: thing No.

[00:05:48] Chuck: Don't you do that when you

[00:05:49] Taylor: that riverbed mossy flavor.

[00:05:52] Chuck: Yeah, that's when you go out frog gigging or whatever, Yeah,

[00:05:57] Taylor: which by the way, like you probably do that in Columbia. So I was [00:06:00] telling the boys this. Before we press record so my wife and I were actually looking at buying a farm in columbia So columbia for those of you It is it is about an hour south of nashville So it'd be almost two hours south of us where we're at.

So we're 45 minutes north of nashville and so columbia's beautiful rolling hills very kind of kentucky esque. I guess you could say,

[00:06:24] Chuck: Shut your dirty mouth. Shut your dirty mouth.

[00:06:27] Taylor: Okay.

[00:06:28] Chuck: you dare try and That's where I'm, I was born. Yeah, that's, you know.

[00:06:34] Taylor: in Kentucky. Okay.

[00:06:35] Chuck: I'm, I grew up in Northern Kentucky across from Cincinnati. And I,

[00:06:40] Taylor: I think we had talked about this, right?

[00:06:41] Chuck: We did, we talked about this once. And then, of course, I would go down. Growing up, I had a friend who had a horse farm, and they raised racehorses, and then of course you go down to Lexington or Louisville or whatever.

So, very pretty, very

[00:06:53] Taylor: So Columbia

is beautiful. Columbia is beautiful. That's all I'm saying,

Columbia is beautiful. It's got all the hipsters are moving down there [00:07:00] and they've turned kind of like the AKA elder millennials now, and they've kind of turned the town square.

That was downtown into this like really cool like eclectic Like you kind of get the old town square vibe, but all the stores are like really cool So it's it's a really great vibe if you ever get to nashville and have a car I would recommend spending like a half day in columbia

[00:07:21] Chuck: Okay. Yeah, I've been to Franklin, and then of course Nashville,

[00:07:25] Taylor: franklin's gorgeous, but yeah Yeah. 45 minutes south of frank. I mean columbia's deep south deep

[00:07:30] Chuck: I see. I see. Alright. Well let's, let's, let's put a little bow on this this

whiskey discussion. Good.

[00:07:38] Taylor: Not great Alright, well out of ten the tentacle scale? I mean, okay.

six and a half, six and a

[00:07:45] Chuck: Six is very generous for something good not great, I think. But I mean, in your mind, you, you know, categorize it as you Yeah. good Sir.

[00:07:55] Taylor: in general. It's not bad. It's not bad.

[00:07:58] Chuck: no.


[00:08:00] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:08:01] Taylor: So that's why I said six and a half, six. I'll go six.

[00:08:04] Chuck: Robert.

[00:08:06] Robbie: i'm gonna give it a Actually a four I think because I think it was pretty pricey too and like for it to be not the best for being pretty pricey I'm like, yeah, no screw that so we'll give it a four

[00:08:23] Chuck: that's an excellent point. 'cause I do like to compare, like quality appeal for value kind of thing. I, I, I don't think I was gonna go that low. I think I was, I was gonna kind of say five. I do believe it was like. 150 maybe, give or take, something like

that. It was one of their pricier ones. 150, 200, it was a pricey one.

That's how much we value Taylor. Return guests, you get upgraded each time. You know, ask Ken. Ken got an upgraded one each time you come back. And,

[00:08:55] Taylor: I love it.

[00:08:55] Chuck: you know,

[00:08:56] Robbie: Yeah, until you get

[00:08:57] Chuck: for

us. 283, [00:09:00] 000 one or whatever it was. Yeah,

What we, what we need to do is actually just show up for an episode at Robbie's house where he has, like, the rhetoric collection of like, what

is it, like, 22?

Yeah, the lit up thing behind him that we've been waiting to do in person someday.

And it's like the 22 to the 26 year old or

something. And so we can, we can, we gotta, we gotta invite Wheeler to that. Cause

[00:09:29] Taylor: think, you know what? Listen, I, I will say this. If that ever happens, I will, I will fly in and like, I will make it work. If we could get a bunch of us talking head nerds together

[00:09:42] Chuck: Yes.

[00:09:43] Taylor: get weird, that would make for some epic content. That would

[00:09:46] Chuck: Yeah, I think so too. So yeah, we'll have to put that on the perspective calendar. We've been, yeah, I don't know what, maybe we can pick an episode number or something and do it. That would be great. Anyway [00:10:00] so given those costs and it's It's not terrible, it's not amazing I'm gonna keep sipping on it, maybe add a couple of drops, but I would say that, like, it lacks a range, and it's a strange mix between very sweet to that kind of mossy flavor for me, so I'm, I'm, I'm still gonna land at four and a half.

If it was cheaper, it probably would go up a little bit, like, and interesting, but I would tell people, like Robbie said, if you see a Sweet'n's Cove, actually buy their, their normal expression it's very good. Bye.

[00:10:31] Taylor: There you go. I

love get that, or what? I heard a doorbell.

Oh no. No, we're good. We're good.

[00:10:38] Chuck: Anyway.

[00:10:39] Taylor: You're going to hear like some random noises on this

episode with everything going on in my house. Yeah,

[00:10:44] Chuck: totally. turning back on to the

[00:10:46] Taylor: No, no, no. That's, that's the, that's just my front door sensor and or our downstairs sensor and my father in law is working in that. So it's going to be like in and out all the time.

So I'll,

[00:10:54] Robbie: Gotcha.

[00:10:55] Taylor: mute myself the best I possibly can.

[00:10:56] Robbie: Yeah,

it's alright. we allow for [00:11:00] life.

Yeah, we've had much worse audio things, so not a

problem. hmm. Yeah. If we could just get you in a basement in Finland, then I think it probably would make it better.

No, no, he was on a, on a porch, I think, like a outside, I don't know, it was bad.

[00:11:18] Chuck: Charles, I've told Yeah. bad audio quality. But he was, no, he was in a basement in

Finland at, when it looked like a porch.

Yeah, it was quite dark. Anyway, yeah, it wasn't, wasn't the best setup. Half of it was audio and half of it That's why, like, when Robbie sees, and me too, when I, when I see the AirPods, and I'm like, especially as a mic, totally fine as your headphones, but as a mic, you get, like, a strange echoey setup.

I don't know. I mean, who are we to demand high quality? I have no idea. But, that said, you know, it can be distracting. That's all.

[00:11:54] Robbie: Yeah. Anyway, So [00:12:00] Chuck tried to generate a bunch of hot takes with AI and it's like a wall of text. So instead of that, I wrote a few questions I love

[00:12:08] Chuck: am going to still bring some of them up just because I feel at some point we're going to talk about AI. And so it'll just be a great example of me putting in one simple prompt. Because every product is introducing AI as part of their thing. Yeah, but AI. Yeah, but AI. And most of it is fucking mid. And I think this is probably

[00:12:25] Taylor: Correct.

[00:12:26] Chuck: But sorry, Robbie. Please proceed.

[00:12:28] Robbie: no, that's, I agree. We can get into that probably very shortly. But, I did want to talk about some of the things of the day that continue to be themes like RTO is a big thing still with every company. How much of a mistake was that? Or do you think like. You know, what, what is the right way to do this?

And are they doing it for any sort of right reasons?

[00:12:52] Taylor: I think return to office is definitely a slippery slope, right? I mean, we're, we're, we're in, we're [00:13:00] in a run right now where companies have the leverage again, like, let's just call it what it is. I, you know, companies know that there's a good jazillion job seekers out there, but, That if somebody doesn't want to return to office, they can obviously use that as a way to get that person out.

And obviously they can go find a person who wants to be on site more likely than not. Now, however, my, my concern with that is, is the long term detrimental, kind of, the, I'm trying to come up with words here that the detriment to the culture longterm, right? Because what happens is, is if you want to bring people on site, you're, you're going to jerk people around right now, right?

It was, it was, Hey, we're remote. We're remote. Then all of a sudden it's like, no, you're in office. Like, that's, that's not what I signed up for. That's a complete one 80 and you're already eroding trust. Right? I mean, I, I will give a shout out to my last company. They were a billion dollar company. They were like, Hey.

[00:14:00] We said we're remote and we're going to stay remote and, and you can come into the office if you want. I think that's the way to do it. I think if you're going to do a return to office, I, you got to do it where people aren't sitting on zoom calls next to each other.

[00:14:19] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:14:20] Taylor: Like that's, that's what I have an issue with.

Right. It's like, Hey, we're going to bring people in, but Larry can't be here because he's got a baby coming. And then Susan can't be here because she's sick. And then Tiffany can't be here because yada, yada. And then all of a sudden, we're all on zoom calls. Right. Well. Oh. And any sense.

[00:14:42] Chuck: that's horseshit, because Larry's not even having the baby, so just show up, Larry. Come into the hou you

know, come into the office. it together. Yeah.

[00:14:50] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:14:50] Chuck: so typical Larry to use any life

[00:14:52] Taylor: Yeah. Larry,

just get it together.

[00:14:54] Robbie: on, man.

[00:14:55] Taylor: So

like, yeah.

so for me, it's, it's [00:15:00] one of these things. So yeah, it's, it's challenging. So, so my, my last company I was at, we, they, they pushed a little hard to bring people into the office there at the very end. And, and for us, it's like, well, again, so and so lives in Kentucky on the team.

So are you going to make so and so from Kentucky come down here? And so basically I'm, I, I think I like what gun IO does. Like what, what we're kind of averaging right now is once a quarter, we bring in a team, right? So last quarter was the marketing team. I think the sales team is coming in this quarter.

I think the following month it's going to be the ops team. All right. And then the following month's going to be the engineering team, right? So we have like four or five teams each quarter you bring in a team. I think that's great because it was really nice. Like we were in the office for two or three days with gun.

I was next, you know, kind of working with the marketing team on some, you know, objectives for 2024 if it felt good, you know, dinners and it was just great. Right. But I think to get [00:16:00] people into the office three or four days a week, I think is, I, I, I think unless you start a company now and that's your policy, I, the, I, the toothpaste is out of the tube and I don't know if y'all have tried to put toothpaste back in a tube, but it's next to near impossible.

And so

[00:16:15] Chuck: you should just buy a new tube,

[00:16:16] Taylor: you should just,

my point exactly. And so, and so I, I, I think intentional time on site. Where you carve out three days, two days on site, it's very intentional. And you get 99 percent of people there. I think that's how it's done.

[00:16:33] Robbie: Yeah. I think that's like a very good point that if people aren't there that you work with, it's kind of defeats the purpose. It's like Amazon's

policy is just, yeah. in and it just is a downward spiral.

Yeah. It's just like a blanket, like everyone be in the office three days a week. But then it's like, okay, well, all of my team is on the West coast.

So like, there are a couple other people in my org that are like kind of near me and I kind of talked to them sometimes. So like, [00:17:00] there's that little bit of culture improvement. However. There's because we're forcing everyone to come back to the office There starts to be more and more people on those zoom calls and other shit around that are disrupting me We just have a big open area with everyone talking non stop and I can't focus so i'm just like Well, if you guys are too loud, i'm badged in for the day.

I'm just gonna go home and work like

[00:17:21] Chuck: right. You at least,

[00:17:23] Taylor: yeah. I mean, and again, I mean, that was to another thing, like there at the very end at the last company I was at, like I had more people come to me and say, Taylor, I hate going to the office because I just talk all the time. I don't get any work done.

[00:17:33] Robbie: Yeah

[00:17:34] Taylor: Right. I mean, like, realistically, like I look back and I've told so many people this, I don't know how I got anything done going into the office, the drive alone.

It was, it was an hour in the morning there and potentially an hour and 15 home.

[00:17:50] Chuck: Yeah, blah.

[00:17:51] Taylor: two hours


We, we will, we were required to basically have a lunch every day with the developer. And depending on where it is in the, in the, [00:18:00] in Nashville, you could be 30 minutes there. Then you would have an hour lunch in 30 minutes.

That's two hours. So that's four hours right there between a lunch every day and going home and going to work is four hours of wasted time. Not to.

[00:18:15] Chuck: don't count for on the clock, so now you've got a 10 hour day minimum. Plus, they're like, oh, lunch? Well, maybe we need an extra hour for that. Now you're at an 11 hour day, and you're gonna have,

oh. You don't need physical fitness or joy or anything like that

Yeah, yeah, physical fitness. But also make sure you carve out your own personal time for your own development and growth. Because you can't do that on company time. There's no ROI on that directly. This, this benefits you. You should be doing it, right?

[00:18:45] Taylor: well, and, and that's, and that's where we get into. You know, and that's why I'm really, I'm, I'm glad my CEO at gun really understands like physical fitness and like, and the need for, I mean, he told me, he goes [00:19:00] like, I want you. To be working out during the day for your mental health. And so like that, that was really cool.

And so, and I think that type of stuff goes a really long way for retention, for company morale. And, and it's those types of intangibles. Like if we're talking about like what, how to build a good remote culture, it's that type of stuff, right? It's your CEO saying, Hey, I support you working out during the day, or, you know, you don't have to come into, I mean, we have an office in Nashville.

It's only a 25 minute drive for me. But I, there, there's Why? Yeah,

[00:19:34] Chuck: or, or there's a,

[00:19:35] Taylor: way

more effective at home

[00:19:37] Chuck: Yeah, there's a two minute walk to your office,

[00:19:39] Taylor: and we're adults, right? I guess that's the thing. It's like, it's like you're, you're kind of managing, like we're all in daycare. And I, I think I read an article like early on during COVID about basically like it being like nine to fives in office.

We're like adult daycare, like, are you doing your work? Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing?

[00:19:57] Chuck: Well, yeah, it gives middle [00:20:00] management a purpose, and since I have And I've been middle management a lot in my career, so I can definitely speak to that. The potential imposter syndrome of like, what do I What am I doing if I don't know the status of everything on demand from my boss and feeling like I have to do that, right? That was very short lived in my life. I was either like, okay, I'm either going to operate differently and this is going to work out or I'm just never going to be a manager because that's not the life I want to lead. I do want to regress slightly though, but we've been on quite a few different tangents here in a way.

I want to be a devil's advocate through this, regardless of what my personal opinions are, because Shut

[00:20:44] Robbie: your damn mouth.

[00:20:45] Chuck: Yeah, return to office, I think is potentially a, it depends because it depends on a lot of things like from the company side, what are, you know, what are the incentives for them to do a return to office [00:21:00] versus.

Pursue a remote culture, remote company. I mean, I do believe that anybody that was, like, hired under the guise of you are, you work from home should maintain that regardless. Like, that's the employment contract here. Yeah, of course they're not. But I mean, I'm just saying, like, that's the employment contract.

And if you shift that, then everything is back up for negotiation. In my view, I think. Okay, great. You know, I accepted

[00:21:26] Robbie: Well, it should.

Yeah. change, then my side of the terms is different

[00:21:31] Chuck: to account for.

[00:21:32] Taylor: thought should go up and,

[00:21:34] Chuck: Yeah, time loss and all of that, absolutely. Yeah, because some of those incentives, I mean, Robbie is not shy about this and bringing it up.

And like, in an Amazon sense, it is purely to fill the building that they got tax incentives for. Yeah.

[00:21:51] Taylor: They built

[00:21:51] Chuck: Right. Like, so same thing, right? So that, you know, it's, it's that kind of incentive. It also depends on the kind of organization you have, right? Like if you are [00:22:00] techno a technology company, you probably have like a way of working that's kind of well known.

People with technology are always like very online centric, but maybe o you know, maybe. An e commerce company or like a commerce company, right? Selling retail or something

[00:22:22] Taylor: Sure. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. remotely? I don't think so. I know

No, the one podcast I listened to they are the podcast is called group chat. Three guys are all entrepreneurs, founders. One of them has raised recently a 50 million series B, which is really impressive to get that type of money in today's market.

And he basically, kind of money, but I don't know the company like he, yeah, sorry

basically has built it.

The company is called ghost, which basically the way I understand it, it's

like, drink

No, not the energy drink. They basically host all of the warehousing [00:23:00] for big label brands if their warehouse doesn't have enough space. And so they kind of like are this conglomerate and, and, but they've been talking about the same topic about return to office and working on site.

And most of their folks are in, in LA, like, like their, their headquarters are in LA. What they do is in LA, like, it's not something that you can do remote. You have a warehouse, you gotta be here. So. Yeah. I'm not saying that everybody needs to be remote, but I definitely think if you're a SAS company Yeah, know, you develop a widget, you know, you don't, you don't need folks in

[00:23:36] Chuck: you don't need that and and because there's a good chance as you scale a decent amount of your workforce is offshore nearshore Whatever else like right like what's fair is fair kind of thing Make it, yeah, make it culturally norm, or if you make that promise. I think those are the terms of, and then, you know, whatever you say from today [00:24:00] on, and how you operate your business is fine, because there's an understanding and an agreeance when people come.

I don't know, I'm a, like you said, there are, we're adults, we should be trusted to be responsible and meet the agreements that we make. Okay. And that is bi directional. And if those agreements need to change, then, you know, we, we have a discussion and then we decide what is the way moving forward? Not like, well, we'll fire you in this bad market if you don't do what we say.

Like, Oh, that, that is also very like, you know, to the other side, it's like, Oh, adult daycare, you're treating me like a child, like I can't make my own decisions to meet the responsibilities that we've agreed on. Like, okay, let me get in my car and drive to you.

[00:24:47] Taylor: Exactly.

[00:24:48] Chuck: So you can make Yeah. clickity clackity thingy in front

of you, you even, no one's even watch, like, all the people at Amazon, at least, I don't know about every floor. I know about my floor. Like, there's no one [00:25:00] watching anyone. It's just about badging in, and then you can do whatever you want. I've heard, like, people will run laps around, like, exercise and stuff, like, not do work, because they're just forced to be there.

[00:25:12] Robbie: And, like, I heard another conspiracy theory, which I think is interesting, that, like, a lot of these CEOs of these big companies, Like owned a lot of like investments in corporate real estate So they like all got together and did it they're doing a pump and dump right now of like Everyone back to the office raise my prices sell all my shit and then they're gonna back off of it like afterwards Of course. think is plausible like, you know get their money and then screw over all the downtowns in one fell swoop

[00:25:42] Chuck: Sure. Why would they care otherwise?

[00:25:46] Robbie: Yeah

[00:25:47] Chuck: would you care otherwise, to be honest? Like, are you invested in the downtown Arlington community, or

[00:25:52] Robbie: No, no, I do like, I think it's a big problem that's hard to solve. Like, I guess you could convert it all to residential [00:26:00] space because like, Oh, shoot. Yeah. So they've talked about this on the other podcast. Listen to like, what do you do with those spaces? I know Ken Wheeler had like a thing that went pretty crazy, like turning these like old malls into these like really cool, like 80 vibes, Like

[00:26:13] Taylor: workplaces. I mean, I'm going to be honest with you.

Like there's a mall up here in my area. That's like not really doing anything. Like I think there's so much room to do some cool stuff in these malls and

[00:26:25] Chuck: Well, yeah, because the states are flush with choice. So, yes, they could revamp existing buildings. They could demolish and turn them back into parks or whatever else. But, or they can let them go into ruins and expand somewhere else, which is the cheaper, higher profit option, right? Like, because we have so much space, like, we don't have, like, the more, like, European ideology or like hey, Japan is on an island and is limited So it's up or out or around, you know, like you can't really go so [00:27:00] No one's forced to like Be like have more ingenuity around it.

But yeah, hell yeah, like can you imagine like a malls turned into? You know, what are they Gen Z not Gen Z starter homes. That'd be awesome or

[00:27:15] Robbie: I would live in a mall. That'd be dope.

[00:27:17] Taylor: mean, yeah. I yeah. could do much you can do.

[00:27:20] Robbie: Yeah. Make my house a hot topic. I'll move in. Hmm.

[00:27:29] Chuck: Books. I spent a lot of time in a Walden Books Yeah, Yeah. we're at the mall, I'm gonna get a pretzel with cheese and go into Walden Books.

[00:27:38] Taylor: dude. Aunt auntie Anne's man.

[00:27:41] Chuck: Mmm. The best, didn't, well, you know, I'm very old, so we didn't have Auntie Anne's quite yet. When we got Auntie Anne's, shit was off the chain. But this was just like, regular place that had soft pretzel, nacho cheese like product. And, yeah, I would just tear

that up. a [00:28:00] stadium.

Like that, same thing, yeah. Stadium style. In the Cincinnati area, our bratwurst are white. By the way. wait, Yeah, if you, in the Cincinnati area are the true kind, and they are white.

so they are pork. up questions. Okay, I was gonna say like what are the other ones made of that? They're not white

So, like, everywhere else in the country, it feels like, where I have gone to the store, and just, like, go to a Safeway, or whatever, normal place, and and buy, like, Johnsonville brats, like, they're not. They're mixed, and they come out red. It's wrong. It's wrong. The right ones are white. The real real bratwurst are veal based.

But pork based is like more common. Yeah, white brats.

[00:28:47] Taylor: you go. the title of this episode.

[00:28:50] Chuck: White brats. I feel like if someone looked at the picture of us three, and then it just said white brats,

[00:28:58] Chuck: they would be like, yeah.

[00:29:00] Hold on.

[00:29:00] Taylor: That Yeah


[00:29:01] Chuck: No, no, yeah, that, that. Yeah, hold on here, I'm gonna. Alright, just did a screenshot so I can maybe do it later. I'm not really, I don't really make memes or whatever. I just find them but this might be worth, worth making.

[00:29:16] Robbie: I have a meme I want to make but I've been too lazy You know do you know the book Go Dawg Go?

[00:29:22] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:29:23] Robbie: So it's like one of the the things in there that's like I remember this from being a kid You And like, it's like this lady's like, do you like my hat? And the other dog's like, I do not. And they're like, okay, goodbye.

Goodbye. It's like, I want to do that with like JavaScript frameworks and be like, do you like this framework? I do not. Okay. Goodbye.

[00:29:43] Chuck: Goodbye. Goodbye. You only like lit because it's lit, bro.

[00:29:47] Robbie: I, I am into lit. I haven't actually tried it, but it's, it looks a lot like Ember. So I'm gonna

have to try it. I wish lit had a more lit. Like, that ain't lit. Looks like Microsoft [00:30:00] Docs or something.

I thought it looked more like material design.

[00:30:04] Chuck: Not better, just saying.

Anyway, yeah, yeah. What? Yeah, down a, down a tangent. I mean, so, I don't know why Robbie wrote this, but another, I guess, hot take is like, At what age does it become inappropriate for a grown man to dye his hair platinum blonde?

[00:30:24] Robbie: I did not write

[00:30:26] Taylor: I'd

[00:30:26] Chuck: I don't know why know, I'm 35,

[00:30:29] Taylor: you know, we're probably looking at, we're probably looking at maybe like, you know, 40.

[00:30:33] Chuck: Maybe,

I don't know, old was Eminem when he stopped? Let's look at that.

could, it was probably 40, Yeah, I think, I think probably awkward and stark the other I think the problem

[00:30:44] Taylor: is not the problem. I just get a lot of compliments like from strangers on my, on this hair color. So

[00:30:50] Chuck: I mean

[00:30:51] Taylor: we're going to, we're going to, we're going to keep the train going until

[00:30:54] Chuck: Yeah, are you looking at us for style tips because I've certainly hope

Not Yeah,

I [00:31:00] mean jokes jokes. Would you like jokes?

[00:31:02] Taylor: Maybe,

[00:31:03] Chuck: I'm go down that path. Like this is all I'm here for Should I quit? Maybe you should be the co host. I don't know.

[00:31:08] Taylor: I'm already the co-host of way too many shows. I don't

[00:31:11] Chuck: Yeah, it doesn't even pay well to and everything else sorry. We do have other questions, other things. I am going to

cherry pick them. any of these large text blocks or things about AI Well, well that proves that AI is good or not good. Okay, oh okay. Hot take number two, AI taking over initial screening process. More companies are using AI for initial steps in the hiring process, leading to debates around biases and fairness. Candidates often find themselves interacting with chatbots and algorithms even before speaking to a human interviewer.

Can you speak to this?

[00:31:49] Taylor: Yeah. So, golly, there's so much to unpack here. I, I


I think the,

I think if, yeah.

Yeah, I got that. I got [00:32:00] that. That's a little before my time. You're showing your age there, the little Charles I third. But

[00:32:03] Chuck: Mm

[00:32:04] Taylor: for me, I think if you are. So there's a lot of organizations that do this, and I'm so against it.

If you are an organization and you are sending an eval as your first point of contact, or you are sending an AI chatbot thingy. I don't think we're ever going to replace the human aspect of hiring. I think that's what makes hiring and culture so important is the human aspect. It is interesting. I mean, we're, we're trying to implement AI automation.

Let's just call it as automation in some way, shape or format gun. Because our, our problem at gun is that, you know, we have like 500 people apply to be on our platform a week.

So it's like, how do you, yeah, like, how do you screen all those people adequately get them onto the platform, not have turds on the platform.[00:33:00]

You know what I'm saying? Like, there's just, there's just a lot there. And so. I, I think I'll be curious to kind of see how we're using. I'm not, I'm not sitting as close to product right now as, as I did a few months ago, so I'll be curious to see how we do things, but I think as a whole, I think you got to keep hiring as much human as you feasibly can.

You know that's, that's why. Kelly Vaughn and I's talk is humanizing hiring, right? It's is like, I think the companies who've had the best culture and the best hiring processes keep people at the center of it and they don't go super technical. They, they talk about the person as the individual, they don't grill somebody.

And, and I think that's gonna stay consistent. But again, I, I am curious to see how, like we use automation slash ai. I'm curious on, I think there's a lot of administrative stuff in the staffing world that can be done. Like, for example, one of the coolest things that I use [00:34:00] that's AI is fathom the automated note taker.

So I never had that at Vaco. So if I was talking to you at my last company, I would've to transcribe our conversation, like type it, and of course I'd miss shit now. I could just download this Chrome extension. They don't charge you. And you just, it like record, I don't know how to make money, but it records your calls and it summarizes them for you. So like really, really cool stuff from that perspective. I think, I think if, I think if you can implement more stuff like that, I think that could be cool in the hiring process,

[00:34:34] Chuck: Sure.

[00:34:35] Taylor: just the administrative bullshit, but you can't, you can't take the human out of hiring. Yeah,

[00:34:43] Chuck: There's the efficiency tools that are super useful. We're also very early days too. So to expect like a high quality outcome out of using any AI tool, I mean, Copilot's gotten better, but it's not perfect by any means. And I like how it [00:35:00] saves me a few keystrokes.

don't have to fix as much of its output as I used to, but we're still getting there kind of thing. So that, you know, that's an interesting point. yeah, I, I, I do, even if you have AI intervene, I always feel like this is Inherently one of the issues with the technical aspect of developer interviews, which is it is always subjective to the hiring manager, right?

The hiring manager guides the AI, the hiring manager creates the coding challenge, either in person decides if it's on a whiteboard, decides if you take it home, decides what's an appropriate amount of time for you to spend unpaid to go through it. Like all of those things. the end of the day for me end up being subjective regardless

[00:35:50] Taylor: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a crazy. So one of the things I'm really proud of at gun is that we tech out pretty much [00:36:00] everybody on our platform. We either do it beforehand. There you go. Yeah,

[00:36:03] Chuck: Do you guys do that do you do you bros like do you see each other and you're like

[00:36:07] Taylor: we don't, we don't pew pew Let's We don't double barrel each other when we see each other.

[00:36:11] Chuck: In I just Okay say gun there's


[00:36:15] Taylor: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[00:36:17] Chuck: yeah,

[00:36:17] Taylor: hired

[00:36:18] Chuck: no

[00:36:19] Taylor: gun is where it comes in from so basically,

[00:36:23] Chuck: Helps

[00:36:24] Taylor: Where was I what are we talking about

Chuck you hiring manager, I know and

screening, screening. So one of the, one thing I'm really proud of at gun is we tech out our people, right? We have a former CTO of a publicly traded company on staff.

We have like a former VP of engineering on staff, like really, really technical guys and gals that screen out people before we submit them to your job. The problem is, is that companies don't care. Like it's unbelievable. Like I, when I was in the [00:37:00] staffing world, the, the, the argument with staffing agencies is, oh, they never send us tech, they never send us people that make sense, yada, yada, yada, yada.

And it's like, now we actually have hiring managers, tech people out and companies still don't care. Like literally one company. I'm not going to name names. If that company listens to this, listen, I'm sorry.

You know exactly who you


they were hiring a

ton, a ton of engineers from us.

[00:37:29] Chuck: Yeah,

[00:37:30] Taylor: They consistently rejected our people.

They were like, we don't, what is going on? We thought you guys tech people out and they go, we go, we are, we have our CTO taking people out, but like, for example, one individual, we submit him over, our CTO said, Hey, listen, he's really, really good, but he gets distracted. He, I think he's got, I think there are some, I think there's some, some, some hints of add.

You just got to keep them focused. or whatever Yeah. [00:38:00]

Literally the reviews from the hiring manager from the other side, we're like, this guy's basically an idiot. And it's like, it's like, what? So like, again, I mean, there's such a disconnect, no matter how much, That like, you know, whenever I hear people bitch anymore about staffing agencies about, Oh, they don't send us candidates that are teched out.

It doesn't matter because you're going to take them out. However, you want to take them out. It's we've had this conversation so many times at gun. It's been incredibly frustrating because we're so over it.

[00:38:33] Chuck: you're firing off so many potential t shirts that I am loving I just wanted to say well first of all dear

listener that, it was tears, t shirts.

[00:38:42] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:38:43] Chuck: tech me out. That is a fucking t shirt if I've ever heard of one. Tech me out, tech me out. I want that. So first of all, and I will get to the actual point, but also I just want dear listener to know, Robbie's not a fucking idiot.

He did end up with a job at Amazon and so it all [00:39:00] worked out in the end. Like, I But that's,

[00:39:02] Taylor: Very

[00:39:02] Chuck: with with

[00:39:03] Taylor: very good.

[00:39:04] Robbie: but like the people that don't like, it's all arbitrary, like it's based on the random words I happened to say during that interview. And those words weren't good enough to be the level I was supposed to be. So I got down leveled. So like, you know, but even there's some people that said even worse words and didn't even get an offer.

So it's like, but that doesn't mean that you aren't amazing at what you do. It's just like how the person felt that day, how you connected with them. And like, What you said that made them feel a certain way about your capabilities. And it's such bullshit. Like, I don't know the answer, but there has to be a better way that we can be like, these people are all evaluated on the same scale and like, what'd you say?

[00:39:44] Chuck: unions, unions,

or Good fucking luck, yeah Seriously. it could work, but we could also all be out of jobs.

standardized, standardized certifications, something of that nature.

[00:39:57] Taylor: got to be, I think there's got to be staring [00:40:00] and that's, and so like Lily, what we're talking about is why AI is never going to take over because

[00:40:05] Chuck: Right, because it depends. Because it doesn't know what it depends means, right? And there's no standardization. And you can text someone out and then they go to you know, Walmart. I don't know. I'm just Big company, and then they're going to say, well, we have our standards and they have to pass our standards and their standards might be company wide, might be team wide, might be whatever, because even like multi billion dollar multinational companies, when it comes to hiring and tech, especially when they're not tech first, will Create their own standards within the team too.

So, Oh, you're going to work on the checkout process. Well, in checkout, we expect you to know, blah, blah, blah. Well, cool. I don't know that. I mean, I've worked in e commerce and I was really focused on single sign on, but I guess like a cart process, I could probably figure that out because, you know, [00:41:00] but, and that's one of the downsides I think of this whole like flush in the I mean, I think controversial point is I think that.

It's not all terrible for everyone per se, but I do think that like, it allows companies now to start to really narrow their focus. They're like, we want you to have, so we were. Yeah. with this, this and this in your stack. And if you're missing two of those too bad.

[00:41:29] Taylor: I've had this conversation and I tweeted this the other day is that we went from generalists being hot to now people want specialists.

[00:41:36] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. that's, incredibly important. For like, people want, companies want narrow right now.

And I think from a advice to people in or considering the job market. career growth. I think that's the number one thing you're saying in this episode right now is Find a [00:42:00] lane and become an expert in that

[00:42:02] Taylor: Yes. And don't pick react because

[00:42:05] Robbie: like I've talked about this so many times. Don't learn front end anymore. Back end's hot. Everybody needs back end engineers. Whenever we get a back end engineer, it's like, who, who, who, we got it. If we get a, if you were a React, I'll say this on record. If you're a React developer, JavaScript front end developer and apply to Gunn.

[00:42:22] Taylor: io, you most likely would be rejected.

[00:42:24] Chuck: Yeah, cuz you have a pool of plenty

[00:42:26] Taylor: have


[00:42:28] Chuck: PHP

[00:42:30] Taylor: teched out by us. They've already worked on projects for us. We're good. We don't need any more front end folks. We need backend DevOps cloud. Yeah. PHP is hot, baby. It's back. jQuery PHP. It's

back. I actually think specialization in things like security.

practice at my last company for security.

I didn't really mess with that, but that practice obviously was booming.

[00:42:52] Chuck: Yeah, Yeah. I think

[00:42:54] Robbie: the next thing is you're going to need, because of AI being so pervasive, you're going to need a whole [00:43:00] wing. That's like, how do, how do we like, Well that too, but how do you like prove that a person is a person because we got a deep fake of you and like You know, I think identity verification is going to be a like trillion dollar market and like now basically

[00:43:17] Chuck: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, like doing UIs, like the If you want to be in the UI space, I actually would say you need to focus on specializations that I think are going to matter. Let's see how AI goes with that. But like accessibility has always been like fucked off a bunch all the time and it still matters.

And people are going to sue more and more and more over it over time. Like as everything advances, like the world is on the internet and the world is on a handheld device first, like generations now are born into [00:44:00] having that out of the gate and the tolerance I think is going to go down as they age.

So I think if you really want to be on the UI side, then you need to Oh, fuck. this is a magnet. This is like a coin magnet on the lid.

[00:44:13] Robbie: Wait, what?

[00:44:14] Chuck: Yeah. I was like, this moves. Oh, mine must be broken.

it's a It's a ball marker because it's like a golf course

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I did see that. So the Scotland okay. So the Scotch aging is an ode to golf. Yeah, I actually saw that somewhere or whatever else. So yeah, this is a ball marker. So, you know, kudos to them for marketing and all of that.

[00:44:38] Robbie: Cove is a golf course I think peyton manning is involved somehow

[00:44:42] Taylor: So real quick. I, cause I know I'm going to have to bounce here and I was like 10, 15 minutes. I, I do want to talk. We were going down kind of the direction with engineers also to like, I, I, I just think I've been posting a lot about it lately.

About like. though. Don't go a [00:45:00] full 15. I want five minutes at the Okay. Blue, blue collar jobs. Yeah.

I think, I listen, I think right now in this market, I think it's, it's gotten rid of a lot of imposters and software.

[00:45:13] Robbie: Mm

[00:45:14] Taylor: I think there is.

[00:45:15] Chuck: there you go.

[00:45:16] Taylor: I, I, I, think the last two years you could get into software, get paid six figures and just Google your way to a job

and you can't do that anymore. Yeah, Yeah. And so now I think I, I think it's weeded people out. I mean, I've seen people on Twitter talking about, I'm leaving tech, I'm done. And like that triggers to me, it's like, like I still found a job in four weeks after I got laid off. Like I, there are people who are still finding jobs pretty quickly.

It's not as plenty. You got to work, but I feel like there's a lot of people out there that were just imposters. So, but I do think is a larger conversation that I think you're going to see a boom in trade schools. My wife and I've talked so much about modern day college institutions and all this stuff.


[00:45:59] Chuck: Yeah. [00:46:00] it's gonna be interesting trend over the next few years.

[00:46:02] Robbie: if everyone becomes an electrician, then electricians make less money. And then it becomes less attractive to be an

[00:46:07] Taylor: it, so I posted today and like one guy commented who went to school for electrical engineering. He goes, this happened. He goes, the problem is when I came out of school in oh eight, he goes, there's a ton of electrical engineers.

[00:46:17] Chuck: Mm hmm.

[00:46:18] Taylor: he goes like, you couldn't get a job, but now we're It's just all trends.

[00:46:23] Chuck: Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah. Guidance counselors, guiding. To what they perceive again, it's all subjective to, you know, all of that kind of thing. Yeah, that's a really great point is that there are many other, like, but it's not remote, right? I know for years, I mean, okay. So I worked in on the web for 10 years before I ever got an opportunity to be senior and be partially remote at that point.

And. Right? Like, and then as soon as I got those things, and like, it looked like I made more money, I was a single dude, [00:47:00] so of course, like, whatever, I'll sleep on a futon, and then go have amazing dinners and travel and whatever else. That was my life at that point. And so the perception was like, oh, this job unlocks this for you, like, you don't have to go to an office, and, looks like you have some decent money, but, everybody forgets how much shit, shit.

That I had to eat and go through to get to that point, right? And then, oh yeah, maybe I'm interested in coding. You taught yourself. Yeah, because I also don't have a computer science degree. I went the long way and taught myself. And, I also think potentially that path is gone, but who knows. It definitely has dried up quite a bit.

You really gotta like, eat shit for a while to kinda get there. But you know, the lifestyle appealed to a lot of people. And I think that that became pervasive. Like, the potential for being remote and the potential for, like, a pretty nice salary, even at entry level, was there. And, for [00:48:00] maybe better or worse, I don't wanna To me, I'm like, I paid my dues, like everybody should pay their dues.

If you, if you want this, get it. But you gotta have a shitty life before you have a great life. So, anyway.

[00:48:14] Robbie: That's true in most careers. You can't just be rich day one. Like

[00:48:19] Taylor: Oh, no, no, I mean, I, yeah, I mean, people are like, you know, yeah, I mean, I, I had to eat dirt for, you know, five, five years in the staffing industry before I, you know, started to make money. So Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like, guess what? I've had sports cars for a pretty long time, but people forget that I had sports cars that were, you know, made in the 70s that I honestly, a couple of times, had to push down the hill to jumpstart with the clutch because of electrical issues. Like, that's a choice I made because

[00:48:52] Chuck: I loved that and I wanted that and what I could afford was one that I [00:49:00] had to work on myself.

And so that's a choice. So, you know, you love it or you don't. The, the love is what kind of gets you to success later, I think, but what I, what I really need to know about Taylor is like, you're a recruiter, you're all, you know, you're pew pewing all over the place now, but like, what I watch, I

watch the vlogs. Bang, bang. Yeah.

You have bang, bang, bang, bang chicken. Oh my gosh. I just got canceled.

Damn it. I

knew it was gonna happen. Eventually.

[00:49:34] Taylor: is why we're not live.

[00:49:35] Robbie: Let's, let's all make sure we know that was Charles William Carpenter the third.

[00:49:39] Chuck: Well that's so here there's a place called Payway. And they have Payway's good. it is amazing. Yes, exactly.

[00:49:48] Taylor: Bonefish grill has bang, bang shrimp. And it's

[00:49:50] Chuck: Oh yes, I think I've had that too.

Yeah, so anyway. white people, Asian mayonnaise and like Asian sauce.

[00:49:57] Robbie: [00:50:00] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah which is Yeah, which is so funny because aioli is just like it's just

[00:50:10] Chuck: like a word for mayo where you charge more for it.


well the traditional aioli is garlic and lemon or something like that I think

like aioli Yeah garlic lemon aioli is really, really

Yeah, it is actually a thing, and then it's been, yeah, it's been stolen.

Anyway, what the hell else do you do in life, though? Like, what do you do, what are you interested in that isn't, like, technology, work, software, or your family? What are you interested in?

[00:50:40] Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I, so I play ice hockey. So me and my brother run an ice hockey team. We're sponsored by a Favorite joint. Huh?

[00:50:50] Chuck: Favorite team.

[00:50:52] Taylor: My, my, I mean, in general I don't really follow hockey that much, which is kind of crazy. I'm one of those guys. So

[00:51:00] I'm, I'm very much of, so I think the NHL MLB NBA have issues with too many games.

And I mean, hockey

[00:51:09] Chuck: What

[00:51:10] Taylor: regular season, and then you got playoffs. And then on top of that, the NHL messed up how they do seating

for playoffs now. So it's like kind of weird. And,

[00:51:18] Chuck: what?

[00:51:19] Taylor: so I'm not, I mean, I follow, yeah, I follow two teams. Obviously I follow Nashville and I follow the Phoenix coyotes. So I actually grew up.

Yeah. Yeah. So I, so I, I grew up, my dad like bought some VHS back in the day of like teams one of them was the New York Rangers March to the Stanley cup in 94 and then,

which was awesome. then I was Mark Mark Messier. bold, guaranteeing, bold, guaranteeing game seven. That was sick. And then and then I grew up

loving Keith Kachuk and Jeremy Roenick for the Phoenix Coyotes.

And so and now Phoenix Coyotes got some studs. Logan Cooley is [00:52:00] fantastic. Obviously, Josh Dones, Shane Dones kid just started last

[00:52:05] Chuck: Oh,

oh shit.

[00:52:07] Taylor: And, and, and Josh, Shane Done is like one of the point leaders for the Phoenix organization

ever. So. Yeah, yeah, those players just cause like people just

[00:52:18] Chuck: talk about that.

[00:52:18] Taylor: so

[00:52:19] Chuck: come out. Let's go to a game.

[00:52:20] Taylor: yeah, I would love that.

Love that Phoenix coyotes. I actually, I wanted, I've always wanted a Jersey for Christmas. My parents never got me a Jersey. My wife bought me a Jersey for Christmas last year. So so I have the Jersey also too. I kind of keep up with the Carolina hurricanes a little bit too, because I grew up playing roller hockey in Raleigh a lot of tournaments.

So we would always go to hurricane games. They were playing. So I play ice hockey. Our team's really good. We're good. We only just lost our second regular, we only lost our second game. Monday. So we're like 14 and two. So we're pretty good. You know, we traveled nationally for tournaments and do pretty well.

And then also I've picked up [00:53:00] golf a little bit. So my, my, my, my father in law is like a scratch golfer. He's like a 70 year old, like slow swing, just. Crushes the ball. He's a great teacher. And I, I almost, my last game with him before the four fall last year, I almost broke a hundred, like no bogeys or anything.

Like, Hmm. he actually told me, he was like, if you actually had time to play, it was, you'd be a really good golfer. So play golf. I got some golf stuff for Christmas for my wife. So looking forward to playing, but yeah, that's what I do. But yeah,

[00:53:31] Chuck: a senior tour, you can make a six figure salary for

10, 20 years. Yeah. my passion is and community.

Yeah, yeah, that's a work thing. I don't boys about that. Hey,

[00:53:45] Robbie: like work, man. I write JavaScript like 14 hours a day, so

[00:53:48] Chuck: yeah, yeah, and he has a computer science degree, so, you know, the world's his oyster and he makes choices, so.

[00:53:54] Taylor: There you go.

[00:53:55] Robbie: Hey, you gotta pay the mortgage. Interest rates are bonkers, man.

[00:53:59] Taylor: You [00:54:00] do

[00:54:00] Chuck: Yeah, I don't, because I'm selling my house, but anyway, that's another

episode. be

[00:54:04] Robbie: nice. my house and moving to Europe! That's not. edit.

We'll visit you.

[00:54:13] Chuck: Yeah, I mean, you, you leave Virginia, like, once a year, I

think, give or take. my license. That's my big thing. I've had a Virginia license my whole life and I'm not ever going to another state or countries DMV or whatever they call it.

What a, what a, what a sword to fall on, you know?

Like, thanks. you moving again Chuck you're moving Tuscany right Tuscany area in Italy

Nah, Northern, Como.

[00:54:40] Taylor: No, you're gonna be living in Como all right my wife and I's next trip blue is Como so we're I'll come visit you I

[00:54:47] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:54:48] Chuck: Come

visit. on the way

You yeah, we'll have brunch at George's. I mean, a mall makes an incredible cappuccino. I'm just saying.

[00:54:58] Robbie: Nespresso machine.

[00:54:59] Chuck: [00:55:00] Yeah. Nespresso. Exactly. You know, he's the spokesman for Nespresso in Europe. So it's very funny. Love it.


[00:55:08] Robbie: a paid person that just makes his coffee is the funny thing

[00:55:11] Chuck: Yeah. Yeah, of course. That's not real life. I don't think Yeah or something. Actually Nespresso is pretty good.

I love, I like it, but

[00:55:20] Robbie: i'm it's quite good. i'm not

[00:55:22] Taylor: I've had

[00:55:22] Robbie: Yeah

I'm, not george. Clooney rich though. Like if I was i'd probably have some better coffee

[00:55:29] Chuck: I think it's marginal, but yeah, anyway, no, I got nothing else. What were you going to say?

[00:55:38] Robbie: Me, I mean, I know we're at the end. I do want to follow up on a personal note I With baby number two coming. July yeah

[00:55:48] Taylor: America, baby, America.

[00:55:51] Robbie: Wow, yeah said baby Murica.

[00:55:55] Taylor: Yeah, America is going to be his nickname. date, yeah

[00:55:58] Chuck: I think you're [00:56:00] obligated.

[00:56:00] Robbie: Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, what what kind of what do you think is gonna change with your life like you guys prepared

[00:56:09] Taylor: not prepared. Wife and I were, we're in a really good spot, right? Our three and a half year olds, like out of diapers, sleeping on her own. You know, she's just wonderful. And like, we're just doing a bomb on it

[00:56:20] Robbie: Yeah

[00:56:21] Taylor: with, with, with, with, with this new one. So.

[00:56:24] Chuck: I'm telling you, of course the beginning is hard

and you're like, oh Yeah, remember just fucking brutal.


then you

got a year.

[00:56:33] Taylor: cloud starts, the sky opens up around six months from what I

remember. 12 months is, is the sweet spot. Yeah.

Yeah. start. Once they're both out of diapers and they're friends, you're welcome. You've done a they just play with each other. Well, so our daughter, yeah. So my daughter has like really like latched herself onto our Corgi. Like that's her, that's become her BFF and she drags him everywhere. And he's such a good [00:57:00] dog. He just

[00:57:00] Chuck: Yeah.

[00:57:02] Taylor: So I, I, so I can see, I think, I think once baby boy is, you know, big enough to play I think,

[00:57:11] Chuck: Oh

[00:57:11] Taylor: yeah,

I think it'd be good.

I think it'd be good.

[00:57:13] Chuck: and it's gonna just get better and better. Is it too early to suggest the name Charles?

[00:57:18] Taylor: Charles is definitely not it. I'll tell you that


have a list of like six people. Robbie would, I think, be closer than Charles to be totally honest with

you. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. one name since like 1920.

Is it really?

[00:57:30] Robbie: Yeah.

[00:57:30] Taylor: Things I learned hanging out with you boys.

[00:57:33] Chuck: Bobby. Bobby. Bobby Dessin. Bobby

Dessin. Hey, this

is Bobby Dessin.

[00:57:38] Taylor: We're, we're excited. So it's gonna be good, but yeah, I'm moving out of this office. I'm going downstairs. I might have a pretty sweet little office set up. Very excited about it.

[00:57:47] Chuck: Yeah? Nice. Nice. All right. Yeah,

I don't know, two to three minutes. You

[00:57:56] Taylor: Yeah. did all the work.

[00:57:59] Chuck: [00:58:00] Boom,

[00:58:02] Robbie: we're about at time. Anything you want to plug or mention before we end?

[00:58:05] Taylor: I mean, as always so I have a podcast guidance, couch 2. 0 you boys were on it here recently. It was a great time. You know, it's a, it's a tech engineering podcast focused on the, kind of the, the job search career side of things. So check that out. All my social media handles are at T S and T D E S S E Y N.

So that's all I got.

[00:58:25] Robbie: Cool yeah, I always forget to mention we have merch Check us out on whiskey. fund if you want to support this podcast And thank you for listening If you liked it, please subscribe Leave us some ratings and reviews And we will catch you next time

[00:58:40] Chuck: boom, Peace. boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,